Gloria and Archangel
#1
Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:37 PM
For Gloria: Does lv 3 work much more often than lv 1?
For Archangel: To get this skill maxed, usually you have to sacrifice a LOT in order to get it. DPS builds either have to sacrifice survivability (heal tree) a lot or sacrifice points on DoT skills to make up for this. Hybrid builds leaning towards FS usually have to sacrifice some niche healing skills (Sanctuary, Sacrament, etc.) or greatly reduce their DPS output in order to get this. FS builds usually sacrifice maxing coluseo heal, sacrament or suffragium to get this.
For those who have tried both level 1 and lv 3 Gloria, what are your thoughts? Is it worth the extra 2 points?
For those who have tried Archangel, what are your thoughts? Is all the sacrifice to get max level of this skill worth it? Would you have rather invested your points back into reinforcing your build (DPS/healing)?
Just wanted to hear some opinions please.
#2
Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:08 PM
Max AA definitely worth it in my opinion. All spells are situational and depend on playstyle. Most times on boss specials where you need extra healing for 30s, AA will be ready. If you don't like to manage an extra CD, don't get it. I like it because boss often has short duration enrage where you need boost healing, then regular healing can take care of the rest. Why invest more into Sanctuary or Suffragium when you will overheal 99% of the time?
I find Suffragium useless, but others think it's good. I find often people are already topped off and I stand around doing nothing but refresh Renovatio on everyone in case they take damage. Saving .08 sec on heal doesn't mean anything 99.9% of the time. Maybe .1% someone died as you were casting and that .08 sec would matter.
Max sanctuary vs lv 1 is a good debate. Some like max to heal party up fast after AoE and can get back to healing up tank. Others rather save the points and use it on other spells. I prefer lv 1 with keeping renov up on everyone. It's in effect the same. Over 10 sec of Sanc, you heal 28% matk more per 2 sec at lv 5 than 1. If you renov everyone, in that 10 sec, you heal 22% matk, so net difference is 6% matk per 2 sec. I can spend those 4 points somewhere else more useful. Of course, if you renov and sanc then it's still 28% diff, but sanc lv 5 will heal everyone to full in 2 ticks and you waste the other 3 anyway.
Coluseo heal is almost useless in raid. I rarely ever need to use it. If tank gets low enough to need it, something is wrong with healing already, such as both healers got stunned and tank didn't avoid any hits for 5-6s and didn't use any cd. Wasting 4 points to max is silly.
In effect, most of the time, your healing should be sufficient without any CD or special ability to heal through most raids. I am now almost full Colo gear which makes everything easy, but I start HM Baph 2 weeks after server open with just RHD gears. People said you need 6.2k++ hp and etc.. I did all raid with 5.5k buffed and as hybrid, not FS. Skill is more important than equips. Knowing how to heal, predict damage, and time CDs to match with boss specials will get you through everything.
#3
Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:10 PM
#4
Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:44 PM
Alright, so basically max Suffragium and max Coluseo are not worth it, that's ok.Lv 3 Gloria proc a lot. Much more than 1. It is quite noticeable, although in many situations, unnecessary. Nice thing about instant cast means you can cast other things in between and know you have a 1-2k heal instantly waiting and someone won't die during cast time. Worth or not? Up to you. You really must try it yourself to decide.
Max AA definitely worth it in my opinion. All spells are situational and depend on playstyle. Most times on boss specials where you need extra healing for 30s, AA will be ready. If you don't like to manage an extra CD, don't get it. I like it because boss often has short duration enrage where you need boost healing, then regular healing can take care of the rest. Why invest more into Sanctuary or Suffragium when you will overheal 99% of the time?
I find Suffragium useless, but others think it's good. I find often people are already topped off and I stand around doing nothing but refresh Renovatio on everyone in case they take damage. Saving .08 sec on heal doesn't mean anything 99.9% of the time. Maybe .1% someone died as you were casting and that .08 sec would matter.
Max sanctuary vs lv 1 is a good debate. Some like max to heal party up fast after AoE and can get back to healing up tank. Others rather save the points and use it on other spells. I prefer lv 1 with keeping renov up on everyone. It's in effect the same. Over 10 sec of Sanc, you heal 28% matk more per 2 sec at lv 5 than 1. If you renov everyone, in that 10 sec, you heal 22% matk, so net difference is 6% matk per 2 sec. I can spend those 4 points somewhere else more useful. Of course, if you renov and sanc then it's still 28% diff, but sanc lv 5 will heal everyone to full in 2 ticks and you waste the other 3 anyway.
Coluseo heal is almost useless in raid. I rarely ever need to use it. If tank gets low enough to need it, something is wrong with healing already, such as both healers got stunned and tank didn't avoid any hits for 5-6s and didn't use any cd. Wasting 4 points to max is silly.
In effect, most of the time, your healing should be sufficient without any CD or special ability to heal through most raids. I am now almost full Colo gear which makes everything easy, but I start HM Baph 2 weeks after server open with just RHD gears. People said you need 6.2k++ hp and etc.. I did all raid with 5.5k buffed and as hybrid, not FS. Skill is more important than equips. Knowing how to heal, predict damage, and time CDs to match with boss specials will get you through everything.
Gloria isn't a big issue, with or without is fine since it's a "chance" thing.
So what the options boil down to is this: Max Sanctuary or Max Archangel?
Currently I'm trying to run a build like this: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
I take lv 1 RoG for Colosseums mainly, without it I feel that I'll need to invest twice the amount of time to get those accessories.
To me, I feel that Sanctuary is important to get lv 4-5. Later bosses do AOE bleed, on top of AOE blows. Your tactic of Reno'ing everyone would take time to cast, I'd imagine. Level 1 Sanctuary I feel would top people up too slowly, especially since you need to keep your tank topped up as well. The faster you heal everyone back up, the faster you can get back to healing your tank.
The problem is this: If I wanted Archangel in this build as well, what can I possibly sacrifice to get it? I would need 7 points taken off my build to get it.
I'm thinking of taking 2 points off Gloria, 4 points of Sacrament and maybe 1 point off Heal? How much would that gimp my healing?
#5
Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:18 PM
I would try Gloria lv 1 to see whether it proc enough for you. Personally I take lv 1 sanc like I said, but if you want to keep that, then remove points in Sacrament is fine. 1 point off Heal will not affect much. You can leave AA at lv 4 as well if you prefer to have more consistent heal and a bit less burst. Majority of spell choice is based on your own playstyle and preference. It's better to spend zenny on reset to try different build and see how you like it than to go by what others say. We can only guide.
#6
Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:27 PM
Yeah, and I was talking about AoD raids. Things really do get tough there, a good example of where high lv Sanctuary comes into play is the 4th boss.
Here's some videos of it, notice how heavy the boss blows are:
A less-geared group (fail) attempt - normal mode:
Successful attempt - normal mode:
Successful attempt - hard mode:
Look at the HP of the recording player to get an idea how much bosses do. That big blow = 8k hp...lucky the recorder has 12k hp
#7
Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:55 AM
#8
Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:05 AM
#9
Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:59 AM
#10
Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:38 AM
But yeah, I think maxing Sanctuary instead of getting lv 1 is going to make the real healers stand out in the end
#11
Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:30 AM
#12
Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:49 AM
This is the FS build i'm using right now: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
Gloria and AA are both worth getting. AA helps if you ever fall behind on healing. Gloria Procs more often with rank 3, and it definately is noticeable. You'll feel that feel when you get 3-4 gloria procs in a row!
Also, keep in mind I max Meditatio because I have the gear/hit to support it. Meditatio scales extremely well with gear, and once we start getting CoA/AoD gear with +hit set bonuses, we're gonna be looking at 110%+ hit fully buffed with pump up pills. That's 275% critical healing. If you're still in RHD/Bapho N gear, I wouldn't recommend getting it though. You could probably take those points and max AA and Coluseo, depending on how much you use it during raids.
#13
Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:06 AM
Oops, on topic: max Sanc is helpful when you're learning to raid or going with PUGs, but it's not as necessary when you raid with people who are experienced with better gear. I never had max gloria, so I cannot attest to how good it is, but AA is excellent. That extra burst is incredibly helpful when the tank's HP is rapidly diminishing. I miss the AA I had to give up for attack skills.
Edited by vonnegut, 11 June 2013 - 09:10 AM.
#14
Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:58 AM
At lv 1 meditatio, it is 57%
#15
Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:05 AM
Edited by Fold, 11 June 2013 - 10:06 AM.
#16
Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:30 AM
Edited by AngeChan, 11 June 2013 - 10:30 AM.
#17
Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:07 PM
I can't think of a lot of ways to increase hit rate without touching the cash shop. Also, it only works if the heals crit. Most of the time if heals crit, you get overhealing with a normal crit. Making your crits even stronger would just be extra overhealing. As you said Fold, popping AA is generally sufficient on its own.
@ vonnegut: you make a good point with AA. AA works with other skills as well, not just Sanctuary, so it's better investment for points.
@Jargous: your lv 5 AA making lv 1 Sanc ---> lv 3 Sanc comparison puts things into perspective now. I'm gonna have to rethink a bit. Since AA has a shorter cooldown than Sanctuary, I guess you can have it ready for Sanctuaries whenever necessary.
The problem is, how do I go about getting lv 5 AA even if I take off 4 points from Sanctuary? I really want to keep RoG for colosseum...
Edited by SolidJelly, 11 June 2013 - 03:22 PM.
#18
Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:42 PM
#19
Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:56 PM
Edit: Worked out something better that allows me to keep RoG...reading through these forums I found Sacrament isn't as good as I thought, took 1 point off that and 1 point off Heal, ended up with this:
http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
Edited by SolidJelly, 12 June 2013 - 04:05 AM.
#20
Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:38 AM
I'm a FS, sacrificed Coluseo and Suffra. Suffra is a very debatable skill. You can find calcucations done on this forum. Basically it allows you 1 additional heal for each 20 heals. Seems absolutely worthless to me. As for Coluseo... Well, a good skill. I use it rarely, so I did't feel a need to max it, but I undertstand why some piests love it. Personally if I decided to drop Archangel, I would probably put extra points to Sanctuary and Coluseo.
#21
Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:56 AM
Hybrids are an absolute nightmare to build, I've only put 1 point on each skill in the offense tree (7 points total) and to get lv 5 Archangel as well, I really had to dig DEEP for those points (refer to my post above).
I had to take 1 or 2 points off these skills: Heal, Highness Heal or Sacrament. Sacrificing points off these skills is like peeling the skin off my back...
#22
Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:07 AM
#23
Posted 12 June 2013 - 07:06 AM
Max Sanctuary isn't really worth it. The reason you use Sanctuary is for the increased HP with Aspersio. Ranks just mean how fast players will be topped off. If you notice in all of those videos, not once is there any follow-up damage after a heavy AoE attack. It doesn't matter what rank or how hard your Sanctuary hits, it's about increasing the HP threshold with Aspersio to survive the AoE.
This is the FS build i'm using right now: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
Gloria and AA are both worth getting. AA helps if you ever fall behind on healing. Gloria Procs more often with rank 3, and it definately is noticeable. You'll feel that feel when you get 3-4 gloria procs in a row!
Also, keep in mind I max Meditatio because I have the gear/hit to support it. Meditatio scales extremely well with gear, and once we start getting CoA/AoD gear with +hit set bonuses, we're gonna be looking at 110%+ hit fully buffed with pump up pills. That's 275% critical healing. If you're still in RHD/Bapho N gear, I wouldn't recommend getting it though. You could probably take those points and max AA and Coluseo, depending on how much you use it during raids.
I'm going for the same build but with lvl5 Archangel and lvl4 Heal.
A hybrid build usually requires a lot more points than necessary, FS builds are only easy right now, when WoE hits, expect a lot more thread for skill builds. Right now, your choices for FS builds are burst healing, and low CD timers. Once WoE kicks in, everybody is going to be jumping about what level of Recovery will be needed, in which those weaknesses would be easily exposed.
Oh gawd, not Recovery!
#24
Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:00 AM
#25
Posted 12 June 2013 - 08:41 PM
3/3 Gloria is definitely godsend. In soloing, that means you can kill mobs rather quickly with Holy Light if it proccs. But when gloria really shines is during those clutch times when High Heal and Colosso are both on CD and your paper tank is dropping HP faster than you can heal. That gloria procc can mean the difference between life and wipe.
Archangel vs Sanc: Why is this even a discussion? 5/5 Archangel all the way! Sanc is one of those very situational skills that you can use only if your team is all melee or all ranged. That lone ranger that decided to chill the other side of the boss? Tough luck; he's dead because you decided to aoe heal a small area, and in that 10 seconds, your hands are waving in the air and you cannot use another heal skilling without breaking sanc. Archangel, on the other hand, gives +25% increase to ALL your attacks and heals. That means your revno is now healing for hundreds more per tick, your aspersio highness heal just became a bit higher, your regular heals can keep up even with aspersio down, your Dots can burn down mobs quicker, your holy light just became more sexier, and, of course, your sanctuary is even stronger per tick.
Most of the time if heals crit, you get overhealing with a normal crit. Making your crits even stronger would just be extra overhealing. As you said Fold, popping AA is generally sufficient on its own.
Overhealing is a mythical creature, similar to the unicorn. Even on my 50 priest, randomly jointing Izlude Cave Normal pugs just for the fun of it, never once did I even consider "darn, I wish my revno heal for 90/tick again instead of 510/tick, that way, these lowbie will feel the terror of imminent death ever looming over their heads."
Overhealing means that you have more time to manage your CDs, 10 secs buffs, revno cycles, and perhaps recovery, and less time worrying about dead comrades.
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