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#226 Lunebeam

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:29 PM

I wanted to show a comparison to show why its much easier to compare a Mechanic to a ranger instead of a knight. Not just since both don't use a shield, but because hp/sp is much closer, its so close a card or two could make them equal. To put that in perspective, A melee only class that only has 2-3 usuable attacks (axe tornado, cart rev (A bad job 1 skill), single target only axe boomerang (single target only). (Which is basically an upgraded Spear Boomerang except it has a 3 second after cast instead of 1 second so Whoops! its really not all that upgraded since you are waiting 3x as long to use it again, it also costs 28 vs 10 sp and only has a range of 9 compared to knight's 11)

Since forums aren't working right here is image link http://i.imgur.com/PHEt2iW.png

As you can see the hp difference is about only 1700 and the ranger has 22 more sp. So if the ranger took a little less int and more vit the gap would be even smaller. Knights and Guards both get hp regen improving skills, much better heals from items/potions and ways to heal themselves fast either through resting or other skills ontop of much higher hp and defense/knockback skills. A mechanic does not and to refill hp/sp by resting takes a long time, nor can they stealth like rangers do without giving up 20-30% neutral resistence.

Keep in mind that while using the set the player will not be able to heal since the set takes up those slots, so lower hp + no shield is even more disadvantagous then it would be for a lot of other classes that can naturally do things like stealth, backslide, ranged aoe, self heal, endure. flying kick away, and more. Like I've said tons of times, we cannot gear swap like possibly all but other other class/build in the game. And since our only Attack aoe has a 2 second cool down its a sit and spam potions festivale until that two seconds are up, we cannot get away, we don't have the skill too and those potions we are spamming are doing little better for us than they would be doing on a ranger.

I'm not seeing where op is anywhere near the equation. We just plain lack attack/guard/mobility skills, lack a good 1 hand weapon to justify a shield, lack the meaty hp/or healing bonus, lack the damage, lack useful party skills since our breaks archer's weapons and a few other classes.

If we look at the priest hat is adds a 5% self heal chance and reduces damage
If we look at the wanderer hat it adds sp and hp restore chance
If we look at the warlock hat it adds chance to freeze when hit
If we look at the sorc had it adds chance to cast Rush (Our skill) and double attack
If we look at the Royal guard hat it adds a self heal chance and gives them +100 sp recovery

Those are all totally useful things when mobbing and many of them help counter the negative of losing the healing item either with a healing chance, sp steal, or chance to cast random status infliction. Some are granting skills that those classes don't even have.

The only thing on our hat does is increase Axe tornado, Increase Axe boomerang (A mostly not useful skill) and give a slight attack boost if we pump dex. That's it... Tell me that's not biased. Our hat does not offer any sp increase/recovery, hp recover chance, or useful non-mechanic skills and we don't have any self healing skill of our own or damage reducing skills. And it requires us to put points in a non-helpful skill >.> That's why it so easy to be annoyed at it because it doesn't look like it had much thought put into it besides pick two skills and pump them, then call it a day. And any suggestion other wise is "They just want thier class to be op and leave it at that. Which is a really bad attitude since you aren't even showing us proof of why it would be OP. When we are showing you many, many reasons why our classes is so underpowered.
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#227 Aratiina

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:54 PM

People talking about posters being off-topic and yet, I am asking this question for the third time and not even being told a "I don't know" in response, so I will ask again:

I want to know if I should save my medals for the headgears I want or if those will be only available through KP.

Wasn't it written a bit earlier, that they're making quests for these headgears?
I guess that means, you won't get more of them for medals.

I'm more curious if there is a chance that they'll be costumizable at +8 ^^;.
I'd love that XD, many of thema are really cute.... RO just lacks cute costumes XD.
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#228 killedbytofu

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:05 PM

^i agree. rangers and axe mechanics DPS should be the same (yes im saying that axe tornado should do 60-100k dmg). it makes no sense that 1 shieldless dps class should do 10x more damage then another shieldless dps class. especially when one has the advantage of shooting from a distance and being invisible, while the other has to actually stand in the middle of a mob and take hits

First, you don't know anything about me so please stop, second do you ever stop complaining?


ill put this in the nicest way possible. your attitude is condescending and not very nice. i never made a personal attack on you before but from the start of this thread you took my criticism of the hats personally and have been heckling and insulting me ever since. obviously im going to retaliate and be rude back. soooo, you reap what you sew babe. If you cant handle criticism you should probably not read any comments in a thread discussing something that you were involved in creating or be willing to accept that not everyone is going to agree with your way of thinking. Ive sunk a decade into playing merchant classes full time, and i simply do not agree with the current ideas being suggested for either genetic or mechanic hats. They make no sense, offer no real benefit, and are actually worse then currently available hats that would cost much less in the long run to own. The designs seem like something that someone thats never played either class wouldve drawn up. i think your team did a splendid job on the more popular classes hats though and you deserve credit for a job well done on those.as for my 'complaining', these msg boards are the only way to communicate our frustrations and ideas to the development/gm team in charge, so obviously theyre going to tend to be more on the negative side. now can we stop making this personal and stay on topic?
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#229 mikayel

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:27 PM

<p>

Wasn't it written a bit earlier, that they're making quests for these headgears?
I guess that means, you won't get more of them for medals.

sure... but then these headgears popped up for medals, so I'm curious if this will last. If not -- I'll spend my medals on the ones available (albeit I am not as interested in these classes, minus the Sorc hat) than let them go to waste.
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#230 Lunebeam

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:05 AM

The only thing about the gene hat I think now is that the cart cannon bonus should be moved down to +4 or +5 since there are much better hats and this hat shouldn't cost more than them if they are indeed cheaper than this one and are expected to stay cheaper. This hat would be like a stepping stone between a poor and wealthy Gene.



I'm not really sure the reason for the arrow storm nerf on the ranger trap hat tbh, since unless I'm wrong an archer can just hotkey the hat and another hat and instantly switch to which ever one best suits the situation free of charge. So they are getting both a trap boost and regular arrow storm damage with 0 penalty.

Hats with a HP/SP steal, Skill nerf for balance, greatly increased regen of hp/sp, should have some negative with removing them.
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#231 kasshin

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:13 AM

I wanted to show a comparison to show why its much easier to compare a Mechanic to a ranger instead of a knight. Not just since both don't use a shield, but because hp/sp is much closer, its so close a card or two could make them equal. To put that in perspective, A melee only class that only has 2-3 usuable attacks (axe tornado, cart rev (A bad job 1 skill), single target only axe boomerang (single target only). (Which is basically an upgraded Spear Boomerang except it has a 3 second after cast instead of 1 second so Whoops! its really not all that upgraded since you are waiting 3x as long to use it again, it also costs 28 vs 10 sp and only has a range of 9 compared to knight's 11)

Since forums aren't working right here is image link http://i.imgur.com/PHEt2iW.png

As you can see the hp difference is about only 1700 and the ranger has 22 more sp. So if the ranger took a little less int and more vit the gap would be even smaller. Knights and Guards both get hp regen improving skills, much better heals from items/potions and ways to heal themselves fast either through resting or other skills ontop of much higher hp and defense/knockback skills. A mechanic does not and to refill hp/sp by resting takes a long time, nor can they stealth like rangers do without giving up 20-30% neutral resistence.

Keep in mind that while using the set the player will not be able to heal since the set takes up those slots, so lower hp + no shield is even more disadvantagous then it would be for a lot of other classes that can naturally do things like stealth, backslide, ranged aoe, self heal, endure. flying kick away, and more. Like I've said tons of times, we cannot gear swap like possibly all but other other class/build in the game. And since our only Attack aoe has a 2 second cool down its a sit and spam potions festivale until that two seconds are up, we cannot get away, we don't have the skill too and those potions we are spamming are doing little better for us than they would be doing on a ranger.

I'm not seeing where op is anywhere near the equation. We just plain lack attack/guard/mobility skills, lack a good 1 hand weapon to justify a shield, lack the meaty hp/or healing bonus, lack the damage, lack useful party skills since our breaks archer's weapons and a few other classes.

If we look at the priest hat is adds a 5% self heal chance and reduces damage
If we look at the wanderer hat it adds sp and hp restore chance
If we look at the warlock hat it adds chance to freeze when hit
If we look at the sorc had it adds chance to cast Rush (Our skill) and double attack
If we look at the Royal guard hat it adds a self heal chance and gives them +100 sp recovery

Those are all totally useful things when mobbing and many of them help counter the negative of losing the healing item either with a healing chance, sp steal, or chance to cast random status infliction. Some are granting skills that those classes don't even have.

The only thing on our hat does is increase Axe tornado, Increase Axe boomerang (A mostly not useful skill) and give a slight attack boost if we pump dex. That's it... Tell me that's not biased. Our hat does not offer any sp increase/recovery, hp recover chance, or useful non-mechanic skills and we don't have any self healing skill of our own or damage reducing skills. And it requires us to put points in a non-helpful skill >.> That's why it so easy to be annoyed at it because it doesn't look like it had much thought put into it besides pick two skills and pump them, then call it a day. And any suggestion other wise is "They just want thier class to be op and leave it at that. Which is a really bad attitude since you aren't even showing us proof of why it would be OP. When we are showing you many, many reasons why our classes is so underpowered.


Wait, you're comparing an axe mech with a ranger... but is there any reason you aren't factoring in the Mado path, at least for higher levels like 120+? And you can't really just compare two totally different classes. To be honest, a lot of rangers reach 150 easily (or not so easily with camouflage fix) and wonder what to do with their characters or make another class that's actually useful for their endgame needs.
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#232 killedbytofu

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:25 AM

Wait, you're comparing an axe mech with a ranger... but is there any reason you aren't factoring in the Mado path, at least for higher levels like 120+? And you can't really just compare two totally different classes. To be honest, a lot of rangers reach 150 easily (or not so easily with camouflage fix) and wonder what to do with their characters or make another class that's actually useful for their endgame needs.


mado spec is ALMOST there but not quite.....

-the insanely high SP cost of Arm Cannon vs our total SP pool is a huge problem. as someone that runs ET quite regularly on my mech, i have to bring an overabundant amount of strawberries to remain functional. even just clearing the mobs wipes me out completely in a matter of minutes. for a spell that is supposed to be the mechs equivalent of cart cannon, its not very efficient.

-the fact that we HAVE to have a pile bunker to do adequate damage is a massive problem. ive tried every combination of weapon and they all fall short to reach even close to Pile Bunkers damage. The EA enchanted kingbird HF is the closest you can get, but for the cost of that, you can just buy a pile bunker for a little bit more(except you are kind of forced to use HF because of the rarity of pile bunker). It was nice of them to give mechs their own class specific weapon, but why make it so out of reach? the only way they gave us to get broccas were through MASSIVE amounts of KP or through a quest thats pretty much impossible to complete now and requires gambling insanely expensive/rare mats in the hopes that you even get what you want. meanwhile classes like ranger can pickup a 10 million zeny bow and do 10,000s of damage.

-the weight of mado fuel is a NIGHTMARE. they are ridiculously heavy, and the fact that i have to use one for every spell cast makes it so that im constantly bogged down and having to carefully balance exactly what goes into my cart. why not remove the need for mado fuel on arm cannon at least? with the amount this spell is cast, having to keep 2 mats per cast (cannonball AND fuel) is too much to ask of players.

there are a series of other problems such as losing the vehicle and being left completely helpless with no way to get a new suit and some could argue that the cast timer on arm cannon is too slow (even with massive dex) and having to use CoD is almost mandatory. if they ever made a hat for mado, the only things that we would really need are cast reduction and SP cost lowering. and maybe remove the need for mado fuel as well as a benefit. SP leech would not work/does not work for arm cannon, because it simply doesnt leech back enough quick enough to be able to do anything.

my dream mado hat:

removes cost of mado fuel for spell cast
+7 -40% sp cost of Arm Cannon
+9 -20% cast time on Arm Cannon
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#233 NukeDuke

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:05 AM

10% more CC damage? Charity for geneticists? COD>new hat, Thanks.
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#234 Inubashiri

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:42 PM

At some point there will be lengthy quests for them, all of this information is on my pinned topic in the prop & suggestions forum if you would just read it....

IF you have comments or suggestions pertaining ONLY to preview 3 in my topic there, POST THEM THERE and stop the stupid arguments and raging here
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