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Economy Problem 6/16/13


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#101 1809130525064810837

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:47 PM

I am in a different perspective and the rollback is necessary, i got around 20k with fair play 1m BP and got around 500k+ after the boom, if it was for myself probably the rollback wouldnt be profitable, but ,for the community im sure its the better and only solution to have the fair game back.

regards


I can understand it too. But it would be really nice if there was some compromise decission. Maybe i`m too selfish, but a week ago my char wasn`t even level 50. So if there will be a rollback and after this even with 10x exp rate gain i don`t think i would run it all over again, i`ll just quit.
Yet, i would respect the community choice if there will be no compromise decission. Doesn`t matter which decission - somebody will suffer from it. (Maybe i`m exaggerating and only i think so, who knows)
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#102 YumeNoHikari

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:49 PM

Can we just get a Roll back? and go x4 or x5 exp and blood points for a week .. i think that would be the best solution!


x5 EXP? Hi, I'm level 50. That's kind of insulting.

x5 blood points? Don't people complain of Colosseum imbalance as it is? How many of the thrice-dailies will have full Knightage gear at the end of that week, and where does that leave the rest of us?
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#103 Owlsu

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:55 PM

I'm sure there's a lot of players out there who couldn't care less about slots or stats on costumes and just simply want something nice they can dress up in and wear.

For those people, all of this recent stuff and the gigantic rise in prices will mean they will probably never own things like Angel/Devil costumes or wings etc because oh how much money some people have made from this whole thing they can now still afford to control the prices of these costumes.

I seriously don't know why you (The GM's) aren't just selling all the costumes in the Kafra shop as permament stat-less, slot-less versions for like 600 WP points each and actually let us pick the costume we want and not just hope we get it through sheer luck. That way it will keep the price of them stable since there's an infinite amount for sale and eventually normal, regular players can actually afford them.

Then also just keep the fusion thing so people can buy these costumes and fuse them to try and get slotted versions.

If all these costumes were for sale and we could actually pick what we wanted, I guarantee you I would have spent at least about 3600 WP points alone buying them. and probably that amount again buying them for a friend.
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#104 ShardRaldevius

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:56 PM

I can understand it too. But it would be really nice if there was some compromise decission. Maybe i`m too selfish, but a week ago my char wasn`t even level 50. So if there will be a rollback and after this even with 10x exp rate gain i don`t think i would run it all over again, i`ll just quit.
Yet, i would respect the community choice if there will be no compromise decission. Doesn`t matter which decission - somebody will suffer from it. (Maybe i`m exaggerating and only i think so, who knows)

yea, thats it, theres no way to please everyone, so they should aim for the majority, even if its 51%
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#105 CeciliaD

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:56 PM

IF! IF! they decided to do a rollback

can I ask them to return all the KP to my credit card so that i can quit the game...?
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#106 Skyton

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:03 PM

Rollback wound'nt be profitable => +1

Zeny wipe => I don't care, i enjoy the game for its content, not the zeny. RO1 learned me to farm card for my stuff and make zeny with that so its not a problem.

But, when you know there are people with like 500k+ zeny after two month of a game ... what about in one year ?
I feel cheated because i know there is some overpowered guys who can do what they want because of this boom.

But all of this is made by kafra shop items, why can we sell them to the AH ? you will remove 90% of the problems if you stop selling kafra items.
It will rebalance the game and people will stop to abuse.

What you should know is by selling kafra items costumes, you enjoyed the gold sellers and some players have even become like them.

Edit :

I seriously don't know why you (The GM's) aren't just selling all the costumes in the Kafra shop as permament stat-less, slot-less versions for like 600 WP points each and actually let us pick the costume we want and not just hope we get it through sheer luck. That way it will keep the price of them stable since there's an infinite amount for sale and eventually normal, regular players can actually afford them.

Then also just keep the fusion thing so people can buy these costumes and fuse them to try and get slotted versions."


This is obviously what i though too


And another idea with costumes :

It would be much to propose to player different price at Kafra shop, for exemple :

- 300 KP : costume 0 slot with a chance getting rare 5%
- 600 KP : costume 1 slot with 7%
-1200kp : costume 2 slots with 10%
- 1800kp : costume 3 slots with 13%

And those costume can only be tradable with other Kafra items, not zeny

But well that is only in dreams xDD !

Edited by Skyton, 16 June 2013 - 11:18 PM.

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#107 ShardRaldevius

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:11 PM

Rollback wound'nt be profitable => +1

Zeny wipe => I don't care, i enjoy the game for its content, not the zeny. RO1 learned me to farm card for my stuff and make zeny with that so its not a problem.

But, when you know there are people with like 500k+ zeny after two month of a game ... what about in one year ?
I feel cheated because i know there is some overpowered guys who can do what they want because of this boom.

But all of this is made by kafra shop items, why can we sell them to the AH ? you will remove 90% of the problems if you stop selling kafra items.
It will rebalance the game and people will stop to abuse.

What you should know is by selling kafra items costumes, you enjoyed the gold sellers and some players have even become like them.

Edit :


This is obviously what i though too



The zeny wipe wouldnt help as well, it must be a full rollback, or u think ppl who got profit on this episode would leave their treasures in an zeny format? Is all in costumes/vips/ygg leaves now


Also, if theres no rollback, just wait till WOE, you´ll see some individuals owning castles by their own with +10 full sets and infinite master potions and fully slotted costumes with stats

Edited by ShardRaldevius, 16 June 2013 - 11:12 PM.

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#108 ZeroTigress

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

I seriously don't know why you (The GM's) aren't just selling all the costumes in the Kafra shop as permament stat-less, slot-less versions for like 600 WP points each and actually let us pick the costume we want and not just hope we get it through sheer luck. That way it will keep the price of them stable since there's an infinite amount for sale and eventually normal, regular players can actually afford them.

Then also just keep the fusion thing so people can buy these costumes and fuse them to try and get slotted versions.

If all these costumes were for sale and we could actually pick what we wanted, I guarantee you I would have spent at least about 3600 WP points alone buying them. and probably that amount again buying them for a friend.

They only like the high-rollers of the community. Everyone else can suck it.
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#109 Ketzzz

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:30 PM

The zeny wipe wouldnt help as well, it must be a full rollback, or u think ppl who got profit on this episode would leave their treasures in an zeny format? Is all in costumes/vips/ygg leaves now


Also, if theres no rollback, just wait till WOE, you´ll see some individuals owning castles by their own with +10 full sets and infinite master potions and fully slotted costumes with stats


If you roll back, you still need to do a zenny wipe. But if you do a zenny wipe you might not need a rollback.

wait a sec, how many players do you think profited from this zenny rush? Largely the costume sellers right.

And if their costumes were bought out at 200k a piece, maybe around 100 players had that zenny, right.

So just deal with them and you cleared 80% of the problem. Deal with whole number first, forget about the decimals.

And yes there are still small chunks from that "pool of zenny" flowing around but it is divided across the entire community which could be drained out by an in-game sink, unless someone could gather and pool them back together, again.

Edited by Ketzzz, 16 June 2013 - 11:33 PM.

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#110 monimonih

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:41 PM

No rollback please. Just punish people who made zeny and items in illegal ways/remove items and zenies. -__-
I don't want to lose things/zeny/exp I made in legit ways because of those idiots.
And what about kafra points I purchased in the last days? Will I lose them as well if you rollback??

Edited by monimonih, 16 June 2013 - 11:45 PM.

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#111 Garlantec

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:51 PM

Are the GMs gonna give us another reply about how you guys will handle all the zeny, the overpricing sellers made due to those stupid buyouts?

If you think about it, it's illegal money anyway. If you won't deal with'em, the economy's not gonna get any better at all. I've had about enough of stupid nerds trying to play banker all the time and controlling the market as freely as they wish.

Edited by Garlantec, 16 June 2013 - 11:51 PM.

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#112 Lucy Ashely

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:53 PM

Are the GMs gonna give us another reply about how you guys will handle all the zeny, the overpricing sellers made due to those stupid buyouts?

If you think about it, it's illegal money anyway. If you won't deal with'em, the economy's not gonna get any better at all. I've had about enough of stupid nerds trying to play banker all the time and controlling the market as freely as they wish.


i think at this point they cant really disclose what they plan to do further with out causing far more problems, aside from a total rollback
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#113 torps

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:59 PM

+1 this is one step closer to ghost town...if they don't resolve this properly.
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#114 elvenne

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:17 AM

I think they can track many things. Blizz once had an auction bug in WoW and managed to roll back all auctions in just an hour of maintenance, so let's hope ro2 can do it too...

Edited by elvenne, 17 June 2013 - 12:17 AM.

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#115 Billeh

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:27 AM

I think they can track many things. Blizz once had an auction bug in WoW and managed to roll back all auctions in just an hour of maintenance, so let's hope ro2 can do it too...

This. There are so many elegant ways to fix this without sacrificing the majority of legit players so I hope the systems are in place to do so for this game. Can't help but think some of those pushing for wipes/rollbacks know full well the game would die, people would quit in such a scenario. Just focus on those who had a large amount of Zeny pass through their characters recently. Even those that quickly got rid of it and stocked up on items will have traces of the Zeny passing through at some point or another.
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#116 Garlantec

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:30 AM

This. There are so many elegant ways to fix this without sacrificing the majority of legit players so I hope the systems are in place to do so for this game. Can't help but think some of those pushing for wipes/rollbacks know full well the game would die, people would quit in such a scenario. Just focus on those who had a large amount of Zeny pass through their characters recently. Even those that quickly got rid of it and stocked up on items will have traces of the Zeny passing through at some point or another.


How about giving those, who sold the overpriced items and already spent the money, red numbers in Zeny? They'd have earn Zeny, till they actually get back, what illegitimate money they had used, despite knowing, it's not right. And I'm pretty sure, they DID know, something was wrong.
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#117 Lestat5

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:48 AM

Yeah just have a zenny check on all account and see how they get it.. If they got it from the AH issue then make a rollback for them.. I know you guys can make a selective query for those who gained to much on this exploit. No need make a full rollback.
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#118 AmiiMii

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:51 AM

Well atm, even if the accounts have been banned by the staff, there's no telling what the illegitimate zeny people have received, could happen to them.

Edited by AmiiMii, 17 June 2013 - 12:51 AM.

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#119 Happysnacks

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:53 AM

Sounds pretty sensible. Whether it's feasible, I think, depends on how large the footprint is -- that is, how many honest players were affected and to what degree -- and how far the money's been spent down the line. I think the idea of a targeted reversal is likely to go over relatively well in the wake of the outcry over this issue, but it has to be done with surgical precision and a whole lot of communication.



I'm with you until point 3. I understand if you don't want to be overly specific, but if there were to be an actual cash wipe/reset (which, by the way, I think would do far more damage to the game than this incident), what would position that small percentage to manipulate the presumably-equalized market?

Detaching from the hue and cry for a moment, I have to say that at an academic level, this whole thing is rather fascinating -- in my head I'm imagining some hybrid of the cleanup from the Bernie Madoff scandal and something like Zimbabwe's currency crisis a few years back. Thankfully it's not as deeply-entangled as either, but I think it's going to be rather interesting to see what shakes out. I think in most any case it'll be a good lesson in what makes an MMO tick.


The problem with a non-regulated currency reboot, in my opinion, has to do with the lack of control of pricing. In most currency wipe situations, initial prices are set by the government, and although the market will determine future prices through supply/demand, it is less likely that the previous, inflationary prices, will carry forward immediately. These kinds of controls are not required at the start of a nation/community, as there is relatively equal opportunity access to the vast amount of resources available.

I'm going to base "Point 3" on a few premises:
1) The "wealthy" I'm referring to earned their money legitimately, by taking advantage of the recent inflation.
2) That they will be allowed to keep the items they purchased through their participation in the market.
3) That the items they are allowed to keep maintain the same level of availability (supply) as before the inflation happened.
4) That the "printing" of zeny will remain the same rate it is today, without the exploits.
5) That "equity", are items which cannot be gotten w/o spending real life cash, as well as being part of some sort of luck based system (ie. costumes, capes, and karnium).

So let's say there is a currency wipe. I believe a lot of people who defined in "1", seeing a possible currency wipe, may have converted some of their liquid assets to equity already. At level 50, without selling items to other players, so ONLY NPC's, how much money can you make? I believe the monetary policies of this game have already been discussed ad nauseum. Let's say you are Mr/Miss Wealthy. After the reset, you have 5-10 costumes, or whatever. Are you just going to throw them all in the market at 100Z each? I believe most would probably not settle for anything less than pre-inflationary prices--but the problem is, of course, no one has this kind of money--supply and demand, right? The other problem is, when it comes to scarce resources, supply and demand is tricky. I doubt very much that everyone getting costumes and capes is planning to sell them, especially now, in this new market, where people can't afford to pay more than say, 100Z. In the beginning, we probably won't see these "big ticket" items move very frequently, and even when they do, it will probably be very wildly fluctuating prices. After a few weeks, maybe a couple of months, some grinders are finally able to afford say, 1000Z. You finally decide to sell your costumes, and now have 10,000Z. Because there's really nothing else to spend money on in this game other than repair bills (with zeny, at least, not Kafra points), people will buy your costume/kranium. All you need to do now, is what you did before to have made this money--buy low, and sell high again. There will always be a small supply of "cheap" equity, but you'll hold out for at least the average prices, since you hold so much--and as we've seen, once prices are set, people don't want to settle for less.

This is, of course, just one possible scenario, but considering that there are definitely a small percentage of people with a lot of "legitimate" cash, it is possible.
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#120 xandurr1

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:54 AM

Wait a minute. So if i made some Zenny from selling Kafra Items on AH, im going to get it all taken away?
Then i want my $100 AUD back that i spent. Otherwise its kinda illegal. At least in Australia.
I Read the Terms of Service end to end and nowhere does it say its wrong / against the rules to make Zenny by playing the AH with Kafra Bought items nor is there any clause i could see that would mean it is fine for them to take my money and provide revoke any items purchased with said money in return.

Edited by xandurr1, 17 June 2013 - 12:58 AM.

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#121 xGanelon

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:54 AM

Please keep us players on the loop, keeping us in dark will only cause more doubt and panic. ><
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#122 Bronx

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:57 AM

As much zeny as I've made this weekend afk crafting in town, I would totally support a roll back. A zeny wipe? Me no like.
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#123 GuardianTK

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:00 AM

I'm still chuckling a lot, because there's still people who actually believe farming for rares/consumables generates zeny and it would be a good enough reason to ask for a zeny wipe. It doesn't generate zeny. Trade is basically what the word means. Trade. You trade for zeny that already exists. No zeny means you can't generate zeny by selling crap in the auction hall. You can make zeny by trading with others, but you can't generate zeny that way. For trade to work, zeny must exist and has to be circulated. Good luck with an economy where it's extremely hard to generate zeny if you're already Lv50 after an entire zeny wipe.

Rollback is too extreme a measure. It has a high potential to cause far more harm than good at this point. There's a reason why they call it a last resort. There's many other ways to tackle this issue. They'll probably do an in-between measure to balance the market again. I just hope it works out.
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#124 Nereida

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:05 AM

Please, please do a complete rollback/wipe. That would give me the edge I need to leave the game for good. I have no intention of completing the whole Morroc area once again just because.
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#125 ritsukachan

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:12 AM

Rollback.

Stop your crying, this game isn't even 2 months old yet. Whatever time it took you to amass the "wealth" or items you've earned in the last two days surely can't be enough to push you out the door for good. It's obviously the people who benefited greatly from this whole scam that are against doing what's right, but I think any sensible player can see that this is what's right. As for money wasted in the shop, I'm sure our GM's can find a suitable fix without having to refund everyone's money.

Seriously people, get over it. 2 days is nothing compared to the years we may throw away enjoying this game if we destroy it now, when we've only just begun.
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