174 replies to this topic

[Kalandros]

Now have the same knights (gear, spec, stats) but one male and female

Will the male one always have an edge? O:

[Bronx]

The male would win. Swordswomen got the shaft unfortunately. 

[Kalandros]

But I wonder just by how much exactly?

[Yoruno]

But I wonder just by how much exactly?

 

By every 6 bashes one would do 2 AS while the other would do 3AS with a bash worth of damage less so... by around 1.2x more i guess? something like this

B+ B+ B+ B+ B+ B+ AS +AS

B+ B+ B+ B+ B+ 0+ AS+ AS+ AS

0 being B damage minus B worth of dmg that 3AS missed.

 

Unless you meant the male vs female, which i have no idea of. =x

 

On a different note, do tank gears all come with 2x ish more dodge than parry? And does that help against those lvl 52-53 bosses?
Id rather have more parry than dodge rate in case it's as good as non-existant against boss's accuracy..

Edited by Yoruno, 05 July 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[SonicTMP]

 

Back to the 3 auras vs 2 auras: Take two knights, both level 50 with similar gears. Both get full party buffs, exact same foods/buffs/steroids, then have them duel 10 or more times. 1 knight builds 3 auras before AS, while the other builds 2 for AS. Watch and see who consistently wins.

 

Napkin math.

Bash = 25

2 AS = 38

3 AS = 45

 

4 hits

 

25/25/38/25 = 113

25/25/25/45 = 120

 

5 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25 = 138

25/25/25/45/25 = 144

 

6 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38 = 176

25/25/25/45/25/25 = 169

 

 7 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38/25 = 201

25/25/25/45/25/25/25 = 194

 

8hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25 = 226

25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45 = 239

 

12 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38 = 352

25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45 = 360

 

24 hits

25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38 =704

25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45 = 720

 

2B-AS pulls ahead for 2 hits, then 3B-AS is ahead for 2 hits, this repeats. When you go to a standard 3 aura generation 1 finisher rotation 3B-AS comes out ahead.

 

Now lets look at procs. Aura mastery procs based on aura generation skills. Bash, Shield Bash and Shield Boom when proced. We'll do down to a small amount of hits but if you get a lucky proc string it could look like this

 

were P = 45

 

bashx2 AS - 25/P/25/P/38/25/P = 203

bash x3 AS -25/P/25/P/25/P/45 = 255

 

Proc strings are RNG so this could happen, but it couldn't as well. Though its safe to say 3 bash is more likely to get a proc vs 2 bash.

 

Then you need to figure in Concentration refresh. 2 bash = 30 seconds vs 3 bash = 45 second. I shouldn't need to spread sheet math out here. It's painfully obvious that refreshing it at 3 points is better. In the 2B-AS rotation you are reliant on an aura mastery proc to get the full effect. Depending on RNG you may or may not have a proc at 5 seconds or less tyo refresh it for maxium effectiveness.

 

There is reason the standard rotation is what you should be using.

Edited by SonicTMP, 05 July 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[Yoruno]

Thing is, once i got used to using AS after 2 bashes i started having more timespace to decide on what skill to use next.

Its kinda weird to explain, something more to do with mental tasking than number crunching. OR maybe i just prefer it this way, cos i always thought 3 bashes take so long and right now i dont mind losing some damage in return for more AS.

Proc rate isnt that bad and most importantly, my bash is 1/5 while my AS is 5/5 so more AS used the better in my case.

[Bronx]

Napkin math.

Bash = 25

2 AS = 38

3 AS = 45

 

4 hits

 

25/25/38/25 = 113

25/25/25/45 = 120

 

5 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25 = 138

25/25/25/45/25 = 144

 

6 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38 = 176

25/25/25/45/25/25 = 169

 

 7 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38/25 = 201

25/25/25/45/25/25/25 = 194

 

8hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25 = 226

25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45 = 239

 

12 hits

 

25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38 = 352

25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45 = 360

 

24 hits

25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38/25/25/38 =704

25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45/25/25/25/45 = 720

 

2B-AS pulls ahead for 2 hits, then 3B-AS is ahead for 2 hits, this repeats. When you go to a standard 3 aura generation 1 finisher rotation 3B-AS comes out ahead.

 

Now lets look at procs. Aura mastery procs based on aura generation skills. Bash, Shield Bash and Shield Boom when proced. We'll do down to a small amount of hits but if you get a lucky proc string it could look like this

 

were P = 45

 

bashx2 AS - 25/P/25/P/38/25/P = 203

bash x3 AS -25/P/25/P/25/P/45 = 255

 

Proc strings are RNG so this could happen, but it couldn't as well. Though its safe to say 3 bash is more likely to get a proc vs 2 bash.

 

Then you need to figure in Concentration refresh. 2 bash = 30 seconds vs 3 bash = 45 second. I shouldn't need to spread sheet math out here. It's painfully obvious that refreshing it at 3 points is better. In the 2B-AS rotation you are reliant on an aura mastery proc to get the full effect. Depending on RNG you may or may not have a proc at 5 seconds or less tyo refresh it for maxium effectiveness.

 

There is reason the standard rotation is what you should be using.

 

 

 

We can sit around and crunch numbers all day, or we could just duel to see who's stronger. Or, if you prefer, we can both whip it out and see who's is bigger.

 

Edited by Bronx, 05 July 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[SonicTMP]

If you want we can go beat on raid boss scarecrows in arena. That's probably the best way to compare dps. Having equal gear might be a problem?

 

Thing is, once i got used to using AS after 2 bashes i started having more timespace to decide on what skill to use next.

Its kinda weird to explain, something more to do with mental tasking than number crunching. OR maybe i just prefer it this way, cos i always thought 3 bashes take so long and right now i dont mind losing some damage in return for more AS.

Proc rate isnt that bad and most importantly, my bash is 1/5 while my AS is 5/5 so more AS used the better in my case.

 

Your bash isn't maxed why? The main aura gain and you want it doing less damage? Also what do you need to think about skill wise? It's not a complex rotation to begin with. If you need to use something like SF or Concs you simply use it when you need to and then go back to the rotation.

Edited by SonicTMP, 05 July 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Yoruno]

If you want we can go beat on raid boss scarecrows in arena. That's probably the best way to compare dps. Having equal gear might be a problem?

 

 

Your bash isn't maxed why? The main aura gain and you want it doing less damage? Also what do you need to think about skill wise? It's not a complex rotation to begin with. If you need to use something like SF or Concs you simply use it when you need to and then go back to the rotation.

 

boomerang mastery and aura heal max'd That has me thinking alittle more than AS/Cannon/SF. along with max'd conc, maxed shield fortress and currently maxing aura shield i barely have 2 points left to put in bash. That is IF i don't put them in shield charge instead...
 

[Hoshizuka]

boomerang is crap and aura heal is crap.

[Yoruno]

boomerang is crap and aura heal is crap.

 

Maybe not, maybe so. The last thing i want to do is follow some random guy's idea of what sucks and what doesn't without trying out firsthand.

btw its boomerang mastery.

[SonicTMP]

Ah right you're trying out shield boom procs for rotation. How has it been working out? The proc coming up enough to be worth it?

[Hoshizuka]

even if the procs come up if i remember correctly the dmg on it is so bad that its not even worth getting.

[Yoruno]

I proc boomerang mastery quite alot, reliably every 3 bashes or so. Afew things i hate about shield boomerang though

-It doesn't trigger aura mastery like a normal aura gain skill does when using proc'd boomerang.

-it doesn't refresh mastery duration like aura mastery does in case you somehow triggered 2 aura masteries without using up the first one.

So usually i have to use it up within 10 sec instead of some other skill which is unfavorable in 1v1 pve situations due to sluggish animation. So now i just ignore the proc.. Unless im mobbing, it does shine when you're mobbing, being able to dish out 3x damage every 2-5 seconds. Helps with dealing those pesky adds on bosses too.

PVP wise, its got HUGE potential. i managed to get 2 kills thanks to the slow and proc in colo yesterday, that was my first time going into colo. =x

But yeah, I can really see 5/5 shield boom working out in teambased pvp situations, which brought up the problem of "is it really worth spending 10 points on boom + mastery?". This i really dont know. With 5/5 shield boom you can actually kill someone who managed to get outta range, or atleast make him a REALLY easy softened target. with 5/5 on mastery instead you can effectively CC lock someone for a good 10-12 seconds or even longer. Having both would be nice but i really can't tell if it's worth it. For example i could set up a kill through burst damage, 1/5 shield boom > shield bash > headcrush > 5/5 shield cannon, this is 5 points well spent.

 

Edit: 5/5 shield boom got just 2% more than 5/5 bash, but with sufficient crit rate and especially battle tactics your shield boom can become pretty darn lethal for a range skill melee class has.

Edited by Yoruno, 05 July 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[SonicTMP]

Feels likes a useful pvp setup but as I though unreliable for raid dps setup. Depending on choke points during WoE you'll get some great use out of it.

 

I do wish we had dual spec here. I'd love to try a shield boom pvp setup. It might not have major killing power but stuns, mobility and slows is a fun combo to piss people off.

[Yoruno]

Yeah, the skill's really pvp-oriented.

 

PS: I'm starting to think there's such a thing as support knight...

[Kalandros]

I think I've gotten used to it a bit more now, doing much better.
Also 80k to my PVP weapon x:

[Wtfast]

It seems like we have quite a few different Knight builds in the game. Anyone interested testing their Knight out? I am always in Alberta channel 5 near AH. Self buff, regular food and pot only, no red pot.

IGN: Vicious

[Kalandros]

o:

 

Got my colo weapon, made it +9 easily and failed 11x to +10.. ouch my wallet! D: Out of zeny!!  Oh well it'll stay +9

This thing is AMAZING haha.

 

Really loving the class now and I did use the Mini & Mongi set on mine. Next up is colo accessories and then the rest of colo gear~<

 

My Guild leader is still convinced, however, that it is a wasted slot for a raid, that the DPS is subpar compared to rogue, sin, ranger, sorc.

Not sure if he'll even give the chance to prove him wrong~

Edited by Kalandros, 07 July 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Yoruno]

Still lvl 49.. but you know what, we should chill somewhere together sometime, or make a knight party for RHD fun. Knights of The Round Table style.

[SolidJelly]

o:

 

Got my colo weapon, made it +9 easily and failed 11x to +10.. ouch my wallet! D: Out of zeny!!  Oh well it'll stay +9

This thing is AMAZING haha.

 

Really loving the class now and I did use the Mini & Mongi set on mine. Next up is colo accessories and then the rest of colo gear~<

 

My Guild leader is still convinced, however, that it is a wasted slot for a raid, that the DPS is subpar compared to rogue, sin, ranger, sorc.

Not sure if he'll even give the chance to prove him wrong~

For the amount of money and effort you put into your DPS Knight, you would've gotten way more DPS if you put the same money/effort into a Ranger/Sorc/Rogue instead. 

[Kalandros]

For the amount of money and effort you put into your DPS Knight, you would've gotten way more DPS if you put the same money/effort into a Ranger/Sorc/Rogue instead. 

 

Knight is what I like, Knight is what I play, Knight is what I have fun with.

[Haboob]

Wait till WoE rolls around, your guild leader will be begging for that Knight.

[ExeltusPendragon]

Shooot D: I was set on making my Swordy a DPS Knight, even got her set up with the green Pandora Sword and Board. Then while going for purp accessories I got the blue Pandora Warrior sword.

The Swordy in question is only level 5 too so I literally could go either way >.<

[Indecision Intensifies]

[SonicTMP]

o:

 

Got my colo weapon, made it +9 easily and failed 11x to +10.. ouch my wallet! D: Out of zeny!!  Oh well it'll stay +9

This thing is AMAZING haha.

 

Really loving the class now and I did use the Mini & Mongi set on mine. Next up is colo accessories and then the rest of colo gear~<

 

My Guild leader is still convinced, however, that it is a wasted slot for a raid, that the DPS is subpar compared to rogue, sin, ranger, sorc.

Not sure if he'll even give the chance to prove him wrong~

 

You'll need gear equal to the higher dps in your guild. Full colo int/agi accessory is a need. Once you have that + int/agi cards + bonus stats and title you should be doing dps on par with anyone equal geared to yourself.

Can always bring somsone tot he raid boss scarecrow for testing to compare current progress.