197 replies to this topic

[Polemos]

a) and c) mean the same thing.  Tanking classes do not have to rely on the random number generator.  They have defensive skills.  Once the sorcerer blows the 2 main damage attacks and you are still standing, you pretty much have won as the sorcerer will not be able to use the stun skill for 30secs.  Both the Knight and warriors have stun/knock down skills, learn to use them.  I mean if you have played your class from Lv1 to 50 then you should know how to use it; not some stranger on a forum telling you how you should play your class.

[mysticalre]

rangers aren't bad with poring buffs either

 

http://i.imgur.com/dNA3jfp.jpg

[AlexaWhite]

Today one sorc freezes me two times in row and died on my sword. I survived and punished him.

It's bunny-power!

Well - today is good day. Even i as usual can't win 5th round - i found teammate in that chaos for last round.

Sorcs not overpowered. In colo is no place for skill, only luck prevails .

[Qtpiegumdrops]

You know what though? When that sorc takes your knight from full hp with "no issue" as you put it, all the RNG gods have to align for them to do that. He's going to have to crit 3-4 skills in a row, depending on how much hp you have. He's also going to have to hope none of those miss or get parried.

 

And that heal a lot, cc a lot, and still do a massive amount of damage while at it is a complete lie. Maybe every 3 minutes if you have memorize and deluge up, but outside of that you need to either use earth emblem or wind emblem. And if you are using earth emblem to try to "heal a lot" or out heal 1 dps, such as any competent ranger, wiz, sin, or rogue... you are going to be spamming healing wave on yourself while keeping LOR up, meaning you wont have much time to be casting any damage spells at all.

 

If you don't believe me, then I invite you to make a sorcerer, and stand there healing yourself while a ranger just shoots you. Try to see if you have any time to cast on him at all if you don't have deluge or memorize up.

 

Also, why is it that almost everyone seems to be forgetting the fact that colo isn't solely about how many kills you have... it's also about how many deaths you have. In that aspect, tanks do outstandingly well. Sorcs can do well in that aspect too if they want to be cheap and hide in the siderooms, but then again that's available to any class

 

[6299130505154003263]

a) and c) mean the same thing.  Tanking classes do not have to rely on the random number generator.  They have defensive skills.  Once the sorcerer blows the 2 main damage attacks and you are still standing, you pretty much have won as the sorcerer will not be able to use the stun skill for 30secs.  Both the Knight and warriors have stun/knock down skills, learn to use them.  I mean if you have played your class from Lv1 to 50 then you should know how to use it; not some stranger on a forum telling you how you should play your class.

 

They mean the same?!?!? HOLY COW DUDE!!!11! #1 master of the obvious award

 

A good sorc will kite you all day long, spamable slow, but I guess I shouldnt be teaching a stranger on this forum  to play his own class after 49 levels. Any moron with half a brain knows currently sorc/ranger/priest = easy BP. If you are one of those classes and dont agree, either you dont want your ezmode to end or is just terrible.

Dodge/Parry is RNG based if you dont know. Knight defensive skills have a huge cooldowns, one leave you rooted on the ground for a good 10s unable to do anything, after those 10s you wont turn into SSJ mode and start wiping the sorc plus the extra vultures that came for your carcass. My spamable CC bugs 80% of the time. Warrior CC also is very glitched.

 

Im currently 5/7 colo gear plus accessories, consistently make to rounds 4/5 without P2W or stacking pre buffs.

 I know how to play my class thank you very much. This isnt clearly the point of this thread tho.

[Polemos]

Im currently 5/7 colo gear plus accessories, consistently make to rounds 4/5 without P2W or stacking pre buffs.

 I know how to play my class thank you very much. This isnt clearly the point of this thread tho.

 

Thank you for reenforcing my point. You get a cookie.

[ODKN]

a) and c) mean the same thing.  Tanking classes do not have to rely on the random number generator.  They have defensive skills.  Once the sorcerer blows the 2 main damage attacks and you are still standing, you pretty much have won as the sorcerer will not be able to use the stun skill for 30secs.  Both the Knight and warriors have stun/knock down skills, learn to use them.  I mean if you have played your class from Lv1 to 50 then you should know how to use it; not some stranger on a forum telling you how you should play your class.

 

 

Congratulations, you stunned the sorc.. Oops, he just froze you again. Unfreeze? Sorry, you;re back to being frozen. THe only person who wins are the sorcs, who can keep you immobilised for eternity while you flop around using "defense". Oh, wait, you died and respawned? Coolio, now all your def skill are on cooldown and you can proceed to be camped frozen by the exact same sorc. See where this is going?

 

Did I mention how bugged Knight and BM charge is? Instead of worknig it can get you perma stuck...which everyone exploits in the final round by running in to the rooms. So that leaves *one* knockdown skill, only usable in melee range...and only every 30 seconds. Gee, I wish I had a ranged stun and infinite freeze instead...

Edited by ODKN, 07 July 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[Rukaroa]

I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but I'm just posting some info on Frost Diver. If you already knew this, then please ignore it. Go to the youtube page for more info or read below.

 

 

So there's some talk among players that anyone is immune to Frost Diver has it hits 3 times. We did a little test, and here's the findings for those that don't watch the vid.

Findings:
1. When Frost Diver is used, a status called Strong Will will appear on the target. Strong Will has 2 levels.
2. Strong Will 1 appears when the first Frost Diver connects. This halves the duration of the next Frost Diver (6 sec to 3 sec)
3. When the second Frost Diver connects while Strong Will 1 is active, Strong Will 2 activates.
4. When Strong Will 2 activates, you are immune to Frost Diver until the status effect expires. The status effect expires about 17 seconds from the initial activation.

According to the sorcerer in the vid, Strong Will 1 lasts just as long.

 

 

[Polemos]

Two words, diminishing returns.  You can only technically get frozen twice, the first time (if they have maxed their frost diver) you get frozen for 6secs.  The second time the duration is only 3secs and you can't be frozen a 3rd time and due to the cast animation delay, you will not be able to finish casting Jupiter Thunder in time to benefit from it's double damage perk unless the caster is standing extremely close to it's target.  So if you got frozen twice, you got cc'ed for a total of 9sec.  If you have your defensive skills up to reduce incoming damage, you will be alive at the end of it.  If you are a melee class, you have to expect to be kited... This isn't your first MMO right?  Any ranged class will kite a melee class in any MMO... if you expect a ranged class to just stand there and let you destroy them then you need to find something else to play.

 

Most of you people are bashing a class you have completely no understanding of... this I find extremely amusing.

Edited by Polemos, 07 July 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Haboob]

Give swordsman classes more INT for battle tactics say 250 INT and we will see who is the true RNG master.

[Qtpiegumdrops]

Why do people seem to think they can freeze you for eternity? They can freeze you for full duration once, 2nd freeze will be half duration, 3rd freeze won't freeze at all. And now you are immune to being frozen for... 15 or 20 seconds (Don't remember the exact timer.) They can keep you snared with cold bolt indefnitely, but as far as being completely frozen and immobile? They can't do that for eternity.

 

Now let's see how it works out, shall we? First freeze... they pop VS and JT, maybe 1 or 2 lightning bolts... you use your defensive and you take 2k-3k dmg. You use a master red potion, they freeze you again (defensive has some time left if you are getting chain frozen) they can now cast 1 jupitel thunder while you are frozen a 2nd time, and maybe 1 lightning bolt (depending on how far away they are, as it has to travel to you and hit you). Let's say that jupitel thunder crits you for 3k since you are a tank (and hopefully defensive is still up, timing may vary).

 

You pop another master red potion. Now you cannot be frozen by them again, you don't have any defensive cds, they have no burst. You are also down 1k-1.5k hp. Now the sorc can spam cold bolt on you hoping for wind mastery proc (as casting jupitel thunder without it takes far too long for the damage done) or they can spam lightning bolt on you. Or more likely than not, the sorc will be disheartened he just wasted all his cooldowns and barely dented your hp, and he will go for a squishier target.

 

If you choose to let the sorc just spam cold bolt on you waiting for procs, then yeah, you are kind of screwed. But you have a window to use your gap closer and get close enough to that sorc to make his/her life a living hell.

 

This scenario has played out before with me winning as a monk or warrior; so it isn't impossible. Yes, lucky crits on my part were involved (But had I died to the sorc, lucky crits on their part would have been involved as well )

[iyoter]

Why do people seem to think they can freeze you for eternity? They can freeze you for full duration once, 2nd freeze will be half duration, 3rd freeze won't freeze at all. And now you are immune to being frozen for... 15 or 20 seconds (Don't remember the exact timer.) They can keep you snared with cold bolt indefnitely, but as far as being completely frozen and immobile? They can't do that for eternity.

 

Now let's see how it works out, shall we? First freeze... they pop VS and JT, maybe 1 or 2 lightning bolts... you use your defensive and you take 2k-3k dmg. You use a master red potion, they freeze you again (defensive has some time left if you are getting chain frozen) they can now cast 1 jupitel thunder while you are frozen a 2nd time, and maybe 1 lightning bolt (depending on how far away they are, as it has to travel to you and hit you). Let's say that jupitel thunder crits you for 3k since you are a tank (and hopefully defensive is still up, timing may vary).

 

You pop another master red potion. Now you cannot be frozen by them again, you don't have any defensive cds, they have no burst. You are also down 1k-1.5k hp. Now the sorc can spam cold bolt on you hoping for wind mastery proc (as casting jupitel thunder without it takes far too long for the damage done) or they can spam lightning bolt on you. Or more likely than not, the sorc will be disheartened he just wasted all his cooldowns and barely dented your hp, and he will go for a squishier target.

 

If you choose to let the sorc just spam cold bolt on you waiting for procs, then yeah, you are kind of screwed. But you have a window to use your gap closer and get close enough to that sorc to make his/her life a living hell.

 

This scenario has played out before with me winning as a monk or warrior; so it isn't impossible. Yes, lucky crits on my part were involved (But had I died to the sorc, lucky crits on their part would have been involved as well )

 

You did not include OP Sorc heals lol nice try

[4860130515113635440]

Why do people seem to think they can freeze you for eternity?

 

Because there are so many sorc that you can be frozen for an eternity? You have a ranged freeze that lasts for 6 seconds, that is double any other ranged stun's duration, AND it adds double damage AND!!! you can re apply it at the end of the duration for normal time like everyone else. What they used a def buff? Cold bolt to wind mastery proc and hit them when it drops freeze again if necessary. Really FD is already twice as good as its equivalents but with 1/4 the cd with double damage and the celebrated weakness that you claim makes it balanced? You can only freeze them for for the average rate?

 

Think about it if any class's stun could have triple the duration would that be fair? Hell no, and that doesn't account for double base damage. It would be OP on ANY class and it IS op on sorc.

[Polemos]

Why do people seem to think they can freeze you for eternity?

 

Because there are so many sorc that you can be frozen for an eternity? You have a ranged freeze that lasts for 6 seconds, that is double any other ranged stun's duration, AND it adds double damage AND!!! you can re apply it at the end of the duration for normal time like everyone else. What they used a def buff? Cold bolt to wind mastery proc and hit them when it drops freeze again if necessary. Really FD is already twice as good as its equivalents but with 1/4 the cd with double damage and the celebrated weakness that you claim makes it balanced? You can only freeze them for for the average rate?

 

Think about it if any class's stun could have triple the duration would that be fair? Hell no, and that doesn't account for double base damage. It would be OP on ANY class and it IS op on sorc.

 

The double damage only applies to skills in the thunder tree and if you know the thunder tree, there's only 2 skills that actually do damage and major damage if it crits (which is pretty much random).  Most sorcerers do not max out Lightning Bolt which is spammable but even with it maxed out, you get hit for 400-500 per bolt while frozen.  While not frozen, Lightning Bolt does 100-200dmg per hit.  Jupiter Thunder is a 3sec cast, so that's half the duration of frost diver.  Frost Bolt is not an instant cast skill and requires you to stand still to cast.  It only does 500-700 if you get hit (this is without any defensive skills up on soft targets).

 

Like I mentioned earlier, 90% of the people who are bashing in this thread has no idea how to play a sorcerer nor do they have one.  Make a sorcerer and run PVP to find out how OP you are.  Use all the OP skills you have mentioned in this thread and count the times you actually make it to round 5.

Edited by Polemos, 07 July 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Haboob]

So i was fighting a sorc in healing mode and somehow he was managing to eat away my HP with something, probably that ice monster. We both couldnt kill each other but i had to keep pumping master red potions to keep my HP maxed. Yes a sorc was killing me in healing mode and i would of died if i stopped pumping reds on cooldown, thats balance? So if a sorc can be a healer just as well as a DPS in Colo why cant tanks have burst as well as being tanky?

 

I speak for the Knights but Colo nerfs every stat i want from CRIT to ATK to INT. The extra 1.5k HP/Vigor i get with colo equalization is a lousey trade off to losing all that power. I'm not sure how to buff Monks or BM but i think all tanks need a form of burst to compensate.

 

 

PS

Porings don't count.

[Qtpiegumdrops]

Just playing devil's advocate here, as I don't know the full information. Are you certain the sorc was sustaining himself with his heals alone? Or was he popping master reds as well, while standing on a Lor? If he was popping master reds as well I would say that is fairly balanced.

 

Do you know whether he was using wind emblem (orange and blue colored buff) or earth emblem? (green and yellow colored buff) If he was using wind emblem, he was probably only using his land of recovery and popping potions as well.

 

However, he also could have been using earth emblem in conjunction with land of recovery, and spamming cold bolt + lightning bolt against you. That in conjunction with the elemental summon could have been where that damage came from.

 

Also, everytime he heals himself (if he's actively casting them, not just standing on land of recovery or deluge) he has to target himself in which case he can't do damage to you while he's targetting himself (unless his summon is up)

 

I have a sorc, and the only time I can effectively heal myself while dpsing are under these two scenarios: a) I popped deluge, and I stand there using wind emblem spamming spells on you. Or I'm using earth emblem, standing on my land of recovery. I just popped my memorize and I'm now about to FD-> JT -> VS -> JT you.

 

Both of those scenarios rely upon me using a cooldown. (outside of the whole aqua summon)

Edited by Qtpiegumdrops, 07 July 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[Vaelastrasz]

Why do people seem to think they can freeze you for eternity?

 

Because there are so many sorc that you can be frozen for an eternity? You have a ranged freeze that lasts for 6 seconds, that is double any other ranged stun's duration, AND it adds double damage AND!!! you can re apply it at the end of the duration for normal time like everyone else. What they used a def buff? Cold bolt to wind mastery proc and hit them when it drops freeze again if necessary. Really FD is already twice as good as its equivalents but with 1/4 the cd with double damage and the celebrated weakness that you claim makes it balanced? You can only freeze them for for the average rate?

 

Think about it if any class's stun could have triple the duration would that be fair? Hell no, and that doesn't account for double base damage. It would be OP on ANY class and it IS op on sorc.

 

Maybe you should check your buff bar, after a freeze you get a 20sec buff which decreases the next incoming freeze by 50%, so IF the sorc got max skilled fd, he/she/it freezes you for 6 sec, in which you still can use skills and eat pots (surprise, in KD or stun, you just see yourself dying).

If that sorc really tries to freeze you a second time, well 3 sec freeze, calculating the common lag etc gives you with A LOT of luck maybe 1 JT (but only if you are right next to the enemy, otherwise the freeze fades before JT arrived) or almighty 2-3 Lightning Bolt, which are equal to spaming Cold Bolt (cause FD casttime is just crap)

 

But as my overposter said, play a sorc in colo, you will see that this "OMFG I DID 10k CRIT ONE HIT" or "OMFG I TWO SHOTTED HIM" wont happen that often, in fact maybe once or twice in an entire colo game.

Also you will be pissed that sorc has no dodge skill, what a cruel world, if Varetyr misses you are such a freekill for any ranged class (in most cases, depends on situation).

[iyoter]

Here's another Colo omfg story.

 

I saw this two Sorcs fighting each other near the south room. One Sorc dies and the other was left with 25% hp. I went after him as he runs inside the room. He puts on Earth Arms and spam LOR and heals as I try to kill him. I noticed his HP is getting bigger so I summoned another falcon and used Master Agi Boost Pots, but it did not help what so ever. Because I am so smart and I think fast (yes I am FU YOLO), I know he was just buying some time for his OP burst skills to cooldown. So I gave up, Acrobat out of the door, left him with 100% HP, and WW like a crazy person all over the Colosseum.

 

Yes. I am a Ranger and I can't kill a 25% HP Sorc who spams LOR, Heals and pots. (Note: No deluge mofos)

Edited by iyoter, 07 July 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[6299130505154003263]

Two words, diminishing returns.  You can only technically get frozen twice, the first time (if they have maxed their frost diver) you get frozen for 6secs.  The second time the duration is only 3secs and you can't be frozen a 3rd time and due to the cast animation delay, you will not be able to finish casting Jupiter Thunder in time to benefit from it's double damage perk unless the caster is standing extremely close to it's target.  So if you got frozen twice, you got cc'ed for a total of 9sec.  If you have your defensive skills up to reduce incoming damage, you will be alive at the end of it.  If you are a melee class, you have to expect to be kited... This isn't your first MMO right?  Any ranged class will kite a melee class in any MMO... if you expect a ranged class to just stand there and let you destroy them then you need to find something else to play.

 

Most of you people are bashing a class you have completely no understanding of... this I find extremely amusing.

 

I did some colo with my lvl 25 sorc which doenst have a single lvl on varetyr and it was easy reaching round 4/5 just rolling my face on the keyboard. There is no skill involved, since I had to master ksing with a melee character which is way harder, with a ranged its too easy. Its obvious that ranged class will kite you, that is my point, sorc will perma slow you, freeze for a crapload of time, followed by a stun, and more freezing(even if its half duration, it still counts)... so you go against a sorc, thats is over 10 seconds of doing nothing but watching your hp go away... after that he will just walk backwards spamming CB for WA procs and even more 2x JT in your face... you will charge once praying that it lands/doesnt bug, but chances are that it will be stunned far away from you, giving you enough time to land only a single hit. But guess what, my hit doesnt have a chance to crit for half of the sorc hp, hardly reachs 2k at all. 

He can also spam his healing cooldowns while varetyr comes back from CD and the anti freezing buff goes away and finish you off if necessary, but chances are that you are already dead.

 

I kill plenty of sorcs on colo, but mostly I engaged first, had all my cooldowns up and the sorc didnt play well, and most of all, I had enough luck to do so. I actually target those on colo because on the last rounds they are the worse to deal with for obvious reasons.

 

Resume of my last colo: lots of melees classes, we gang on rangeds all colo... last round = 5 melee(most with colo gear), 1 sorc with no colo gear. Guess who won after tanking 4 ppl the last 30 seconds after a random ks? Only sorcs and priests are able to do that without Kafra buffs/potions, and if you add those, its gets way more out of hand.

 

I know for a fact that WP wont do crap to balance colo, broken classes will stay broken, UP classes will stay UP.

If they just fix the bugs that screw those melee players would be a miracle already.

[Vaelastrasz]

Here's another Colo omfg story.

 

I saw this two Sorcs fighting each other near the south room. One Sorc dies and the other was left with 25% hp. I went after him as he runs inside the room. He puts on Earth Arms and spam LOR and heals as I try to kill him. I noticed his HP is getting bigger so I summoned another falcon and used Master Agi Boost Pots, but it did not help what so ever. Because I am so smart and I think fast (yes I am FU YOLO), I know he was just buying some time for his OP burst skills to cooldown. So I gave up, Acrobat out of the door, left him with 100% HP, and WW like a crazy person all over the Colosseum.

 

Yes. I am a Ranger and I can't kill a 25% HP Sorc who spams LOR, Heals and pots. (Note: No deluge mofos)

 

If the sorc gets LOR easily on the ground and can spam healing wave (good 2k heals crit), then you wasted a lot of time, since he cant dodge properly, only by running.

But once the lor is set and he is in earth arms, the only chance to kill it is stun and hope for good burst, otherwise he is potting/healing himself to hell ^^

[Haboob]

Some sorcs are smart too. They will keep you slowed forever and play ring around rosie at the chain bulkheads pretty much stomping any melee that dares face them straight up. Between the healing,slows and burst the class is just too OP.

 

 

Come to think of it the only sorcs i kill are non potters mostly on cooldowns and or being gang banged. In order to advance i need to pump it up hard, use master reds, the entire Colo to even have a chance yet this class can skate on with nothing.

 

Edited by 6224130502210709307, 07 July 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[4860130515113635440]

But as my overposter said, play a sorc in colo, you will see that this "OMFG I DID 10k CRIT ONE HIT" or "OMFG I TWO SHOTTED HIM" wont happen that often, in fact maybe once or twice in an entire colo game.

 

It shouldn't happen at all and that is the point. Sorc has WAY too much versatility to be the best in anything PERIOD. The only other class that can one shot anything IME is a Warrior and they need the poring buff and need to close the distance too as well as be skilled and stated a certain way.

[Meconopsis]

No point making arguments anymore. All the Sorc players in this thread are super aggressive and can't see just how powerful their class really is. And they go around calling us bad.

[VolunteerMod05]

Looks like a heated debate in here. Just stopping by to remind you guys that you should not be flaming or trolling each other. I'm surprised there's so many pages with little of either. Let's not start now please. Thank you.

[iyoter]

But......but.....but......I was winking Mr. Mods.