14 replies to this topic

[Bendersmom]

I have been trying to think of a way to make IM party buffs worth buying and to keep people from being upset that they have them.  With the new update you need to have all your buffs now to be able to use the IM buffs.  So you are not saving skill points by getting them.  And you can get in game party buffs and not waste SP so there is really no reason to get IM buffs.  Most max players really don't care about 60 min buffs as opposed to the 30 minute in game party buffs.  

 

In addition, with the skill update we now have 12 buffs and that fills up one skill bar.  For leveling or farming that is not a big deal, you can change between all your bars and F keys pretty easily.  But in dungeons and wars and GA games you need to get to your skills fast, all of them.  I find it hard to change to buffs while still trying to heal with the new full bar of buffs.

 

So yeah my idea is what if for IM party buffs you combined some buffs?  For example mdef and def in a def buff, mp and hp in a buff, maybe like mspd and aspd in a buff, wallop and valkyrie in a buff, etc.  I am not sure which combinations would work out the best but you get the idea. They would only last the 30 min as in game buffs.  Clerics will still spend the same amount of skill points and the buffs won't be improved more than the cleric's normal party buffs but we will be able to buff faster, free up room on our skill bars and sell IM for Gravity.  It would be a win/win.  I would imagine that most clerics would want these buffs at max level especially so they would sell, clerics that have them now and spent the money on them won't feel cheated and it will solve the problem with the skill bars.

 

Thoughts?

[Jukze]

To me it sounds like a really good idea, and especially now that buffsets is gone. 60mins buff would never be needed.. when i play GA i wouldnt mind to get buffed 1 time during the game, and not when i dont have buffsets. Clerics dies and you have to regroup, and then u will get the buffs once again. 60min only makes benefits while lvling. So if they are combined its much faster to buff, and you would probably save some mana aswell.
Really good idea imo mom.

 

 

Edited by Jukze, 08 July 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Mystiqueforce]

Im buffs are gonna be less desirable to invest in

[Leonis]

A fair idea, thank you for the suggestion.

 

Working from this proposal, here are some considerations that need to be overcome.

This is a listing of the current "Advanced Party" skills:

1. Advanced Hustle Charm
2. Advanced Precision Charm
3. Advanced Resilience Charm
4. Advanced Battle Charm
5. Advanced Critical Charm
6. Advanced Evasive Charm
7. Advanced Clobber Charm
8. Advanced Valkyrie Charm

I have numbered them, so that you may see how many there actually are easily.

 

Now, with your proposal, we would take at minimum, 2 effects and tie it in to 1 skill. If you haven't seen the problem yet, here it is.

Pegasus list of buff skills:

1. Wallop Chant
2. Precision Chant
3. Blessed Body Chant
4. Blessed Mind Chant
5. Resilience Chant
6. Resistance Chant
7. Battle Chant
8. Hustle Chant
9. Critical Chant
10. Evasive Chant
11. Valkyrie Chant
12. Angelic Chant

So, we have 8 skills in the Item Mall, but only 12 Class Skills.  At best, I can do 6 skills that are combined 2 effects to 1, with the number of new buffs there will be in Pegasus. So that's 2 other skills in the Item Mall that will have potentially nothing to have applied to them.

 

Aside from this, here is what was going to occur before I saw this proposal, and still very well could happen.

 

I was going to implement new skill books, unique skills, to obtain from monsters, kings and dungeon bosses, that would combine 2 or 3 skill effects to hunt down. These unique skill books would combine the effects of certain set buff effects, once learned, you could access the 'group buff.'

 

Now, to begin with, a lot of unique skills were going to be created to be hunted for in some manner or means, to help customize character builds or make convenience over the amount of skills that were created.

 

The question is, should I not go through with this or perhaps is there another idea that could spring from this?

I'll check back on the thread in hopes of more discussion.

[DoubleRose]

Optional IM buff refund? based on what we paid and not their current value

IM buffs are a lot cheaper than when I bought them

 

 

"you need to have all your buffs now to be able to use the IM buffs"

The whole reason I bought them was so my battle cleric could get battle skills, which took like 200 sp

Also bough wind mastery, so if I become a fs cleric I lose out on that

 

lose lose situation

nothing like being punished for using the IM

Edited by DoubleRose, 08 July 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[Leonis]

I understand why many may have purchased them. But the fact that they were allowing you to retain the full support tree without having to invest any skill points was an incredibly poor allowance and should never have been left for as long as it was.

The only skills that are being affected by this update are the Advanced Party skills. The Blessing passives are not being changed.

[DestinyDeoxys]

Another problem is mage, there are many people who have bought these advanced buffs on their mage, however I'm assuming you would still need a wand to cast these buffs because any party buffs requires a wand on Pegasus.

The advance buffs that people bought on mage are Advanced Hustle Charm, Advanced Precision Charm, Advanced Resilience Charm. (3 total)
Now on pegasus, muse tab has Attack power, accuracy, defense, magic defense, HP and MP buff. (6 total)

I know 3 x 2 = 6, but it would be very awkward to map these up while they don't have a close 2 to 1 relation.



So, I guess we would need a skill book roll back? (the skill book re-appear on IM purchase tab) and I don't think IM point refund would be good for Gravity's point of view.


I would totally support bendersmom's idea if this is perfect 2 to 1 relation, but right now it is 12 to 8 relation. It's not going to work. So I still think you should just make the in-game buff 10 mins, while keeping the IM advance buff 30 mins. Currently, there are 8 advance buffs @ 250 IM points each, and I'm assuming you will sell the remaining 4 advance buffs, but I think you should lower the price to 200 IM points each if you are going to inflate the total number of advance buffs from 8 to 12.

[Bendersmom]

There is nothing saying you can't change the names of the Im Buffs while changing the buffs right?  

For example you could make Advanced Speed Charm and make it aspd and mspd.

 

Or something like Advanced Muse Buff would include the 3 Mage/cleric buffs.

 

Obviously MP and Hp could stay as one buff and mdef and def maybe as one.  I think there are ways to make the combinations by groups of 2 or 3 that might work.  They don't have to be like buffs I guess, they can be any combination and just renamed.  And since we don't have to buff buff sets then it won't matter if this one is mspd and that one is def.

 

If we could get the buffs down to the 8 we have or even less (being greedy) that would be great.  1 or 2 that are single buffs is ok too as long as we keep it at the 8 or less.  And the time can stay at the ingame value of 30 min. 

 

But if these are combined party buffs i think that would be the draw to buy them from IM.  People can use the 12 in game buffs if they want so it's not unfair.  It is just a benefit that you can buy from IM.  The price is not horrible for the advantage of having space on ur skill bar.  

 

I like the idea of new unique skill books and those might be good for things that we find helpful later on.  Let's say maybe a skill for acc that battle clerics might want at some point. Or a skill book for mdef down for clerics.  I don't know I would have to think about those more.  

[DoubleRose]

I understand why many may have purchased them. But the fact that they were allowing you to retain the full support tree without having to invest any skill points was an incredibly poor allowance and should never have been left for as long as it was.
 

 

I hate buying a product only to have it changed.  What if the xbox360 had an update that disabled its dvd function? What if my cell phone plan suddenly restricted text messages for no reason?  The phone company decided it was a poor deal for itself and should not have let me have such a plan for so long. 

 

Having IM buffs felt like a borderline exploit, but it costed real money (plus a skill reset) and was seemingly accepted by Rose.

[borgahutt]

well if all the other skills are going to be kept the same for a cleric then maybe keeping it as it is would be better in terms of you can only have party buffs from the item mall ones? so basically can work how it does now. i know this is apparently a bug or abusing the skills by resetting to just have the item mall buffs but if you study the skills properly and the amount of heals we now have trust me you would need these extra skill points. there is no way near enough and way too many heals.

[Bendersmom]

The in game party buffs do not cost SP.  As long as you put SP into the single buffs then you can get the party buffs for the same level for no SP.  Therefore IM party buffs will be the same level that your in game party buffs are.  

 

DoubleRose - this change will not change the value of the IM buffs, actually combining the buffs into just the 8 IM buffs we bought would make them more valuable.  The function of the xBox is not being taken away, it is enhancing it and making more things available to play.  

[Bendersmom]

This is a listing of the current "Advanced Party" skills:

1. Advanced Hustle Charm
2. Advanced Precision Charm
3. Advanced Resilience Charm
4. Advanced Battle Charm
5. Advanced Critical Charm
6. Advanced Evasive Charm
7. Advanced Clobber Charm
8. Advanced Valkyrie Charm

Pegasus list of buff skills:

1. Wallop Chant
2. Precision Chant
3. Blessed Body Chant
4. Blessed Mind Chant
5. Resilience Chant
6. Resistance Chant
7. Battle Chant
8. Hustle Chant
9. Critical Chant
10. Evasive Chant
11. Valkyrie Chant
12. Angelic Chant

New IM skills: (Advanced)

1. Speed Charm - combine Hustle Chant and Battle Chant (mspd and aspd)

2. Defense Charm - combine Resilience Chant and Resistance Chant (def and mdef)

3. Blessed Charm - combine Blessed Body and Blessed Mind (HP and MP)

4. Attack Charm - combine Precision Chant and Critical Chant (acc and crit)

5. Evasive Charm

6. Wallop Charm

7. Valkyrie Charm

8. Angelic Charm

 

That would cover the 8 that we have now from IM.  If you want to make less then combine 5 and 6.  But the idea is to make the 12 buffs into 8 I think.  I am sure you guys can come up with clever names for the buffs. 

[Leonis]

At best, this is what I can see but we're still short on what can be done.

 

1. Advanced Attack Chant [Wallop Chant & Precision Chant]
2. Advanced Blessed Chant [Blessed Body Chant & Blessed Mind Chant]
3. Advanced Defense Chant [Resilience Chant & Resistance Chant]
4. Advanced Wallop Chant [Battle Chant & Critical Chant]
5. Advanced Evasive Chant [Hustle Chant & Evasive Chant]
6. Advanced Divine Chant [Valkyrie Chant & Angelic Chant]
7. Advanced Chant
8. Advanced Chant

I imagine we could combine the Mana Shield & Mental Focus, so you combine going personally offensive and defensive at the same time. But I somehow doubt that would be combination most will want to do as a support class.

 

It also hurts the bonus unique skills I was going to provide through dungeons and rare spawns that would have provided these kind of skill combinations too.

Being that these are permanent skills, which is going to remain as so, the cost of 250 points may seem high to some, but for its permanence, isn't quite as bad.

I'm hoping in the future we'll be able to have 'rental skills' as previews, like we do for mounts as well. I'm considering keeping it simple and just leaving the timer to be as double the duration as a benefit, if we cannot figure anything further, because combination skills would become available in-game through effort, while the Item Mall version would be the convenient shortcut to obtaining it otherwise and would remain permanently accessible, so long as you meet the requirements of the skill.

[Bendersmom]

I think most of us have managed with 8 buffs (spots filled on our skill bars) for many, many years. I would love it to be the 6 buffs like you have but then ppl would want refunds for the 2 they don't need anymore.   My first thought is if we can at least get the basic buffs down to the spaces (even if they take more sp) then to me and some others the IM buffs would be worth it.  I would still keep it that we need to get all of the buffs before we could use the IM buffs.  for now Mana shield and mental focus could still be separate I guess.  We do have a lot of skills but I think that it wold work out.  What do others think?

 

I am not only trying to save room on the skill bar but also trying to make the IM buffs worth getting and not have more people say they want a refund.  Leaving more room for the other skills is one way I think.  The bonus of lasting longer would be another way.

 

And the unique skills that you were thinking of can still be.  They use less skill points for one, don't they?  And there are a lot of ones that people will want.  For clerics a party purify book would be great, accuracy for battle clerics, mspd unique, and we can probably think of others.  

 

On pegasus it seems that all buffs need wands.  Can the mages get any of the buffs now? or do they need to wear a wand to get them.  I did not take that into consideration as to what buffs are available to them. 

Edited by Bendersmom, 11 July 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[Leonis]

To cast the party versions, you need to use a wand. The single target versions are without weapon restrictions.