Battle tactics VS Shield charge - Page 2 - Swordman - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Battle tactics VS Shield charge


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#26 Wtfast

Wtfast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 100 posts
  • LocationAlberta channel 5
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:30 PM

Tomorrow an hr before second colo, in front of pvp gears building, prontera ch 5.  All knights are welcome, especially those that max out head crush and with bash and aura strike combo claiming they have better dps or shield cannon is bad.


  • 0

#27 Kalandros

Kalandros

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1476 posts
  • LocationQuébec
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Yggdrasil

Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

Tomorrow an hr before second colo, in front of pvp gears building, prontera ch 5.  All knights are welcome, especially those that max out head crush and with bash and aura strike combo claiming they have better dps or shield cannon is bad.

 

I'd prefer next to the yellow bus after school.

Actually I might not be home until 5:30 (server) O: and after 2nd colo I'm gonna be busy.

 

I'll try to be there x:


Edited by Kalandros, 13 July 2013 - 07:46 PM.

  • 0

#28 Yoruno

Yoruno

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:55 PM

Thread derailed hard here. What'd you want again OP? full tank? pvp tank? offtank?
On an unrelated note, I (offtank knight) was duelling with my guildmate who is trying to follow lubu's build (offtank warrior) and man does he hit hard. his rage strike ripped through 1/4 of my hp while i was in SF lol. Another thing was that his defender + endure didnt save him from my HC's dot.

 

Back on thread about HC, cannon, Battle order , Battle tactic and shield charge .

Sonic mentioned it on another thread recently, HC is dot, cannon is burst. IF you want to maximize DPS you'd wanna get (or possibly max) both since they don't overwrite each other. Personally i leave cannon at 1 and maxed HC. Once i got enough crit lvl 1 cannon should still does its job well as a burst. Then again I'm an offtank.

needless to say Battle order helps knights who stack str more, these guys happens to be tank knights. Whilst battle tactics is more favorable to those who stack agi more since without crit BT is useless. these guys are usually more dps oriented.

Getting both is good. But if you need points to put in other skills then this is something worth considering.

Another thing about Battle order is that if you have another swordie in your party that's a waste of 4 points for one of you guys since the buff don't stack.

Shield charge 1/5 is already useful as it is. But if you're pvp oriented getting 5/5 probably wont be a waste, that is if you can scavenge enough points for it.

 

But then again. What was your question again iyoter?

 

Edit: Wtfast since you seem to be really grinded about HC vs cannon thing. I'd love to see you prove it to me that 5/5 HC is worse than 1/5 cannon at 12% crit chance. Cos that's what i roll and that's why cannon sucks in my build.

On the flip side 1/5 HC will be worse than 5/5 cannon crit or not. If that's what i rolled then my HC would be the one that sucks.

This applies to Bash/AS vs cannon too. 5/5 > 1/5

 

To clarify, I agree that cannon is worth getting and that's why i got 1/5 on it. but i got more important stuffs to spend my 4 other points on. 1/5 cannon already functions perfectly as a burst skill given enough crit%.


Edited by Yoruno, 13 July 2013 - 08:09 PM.

  • 0

#29 SonicTMP

SonicTMP

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 346 posts
  • LocationAlone in the dishwasher
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 13 July 2013 - 08:53 PM

The more crit you get, the more valuable cannon becomes. Likewise HC becomes better the more AP you have. It's not terribly hard to beat a tank in AP if you have 5/5 HC yours will be ticking harder.

 

The problem stems from the fact HC does not stack. So it becomes a matter of who gets more use out of it. Since the tanks tend to have 100% uptime on the boss they will usually get more damage and threat out of it than a dps knight. Though it does hurt your dps output without it.

 

As for battle tatics, is universally good to have no matter what spec you have. Even as a tank you will have 24-30 int from title. You can easily get some from cards if you like a balanced stats like STC. Any +green 50 card is going to have something like 2 points and there isn't a blue card that doesn't have like 2-5 int on it, providing you can afford those.

 

My opinion on dueling: LULZ! No seriously, duels is a matter of who stuns first/more and who gets crits more. If I wiff a few times on a tank then wtf! If I proc aura mastery and crit As +SC then you be dead. Charge doesn't bug I can take out a ranger or sorc. Priests are pretty much impossible due to healing. Tank warriors are the same. A lucky crit string helps but in the end dueling should never be taken seriously.

 

Unless you are dueling LuBu. Then just turn your ass around, spread those cheeks and wait for him to hit you FOR MASSIVE CRITICAL DAMAGE!


Edited by SonicTMP, 13 July 2013 - 08:58 PM.

  • 0

#30 Wtfast

Wtfast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 100 posts
  • LocationAlberta channel 5
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:59 PM

Thread derailed hard here. What'd you want again OP? full tank? pvp tank? offtank?
On an unrelated note, I (offtank knight) was duelling with my guildmate who is trying to follow lubu's build (offtank warrior) and man does he hit hard. his rage strike ripped through 1/4 of my hp while i was in SF lol. Another thing was that his defender + endure didnt save him from my HC's dot.

Back on thread about HC, cannon, Battle order , Battle tactic and shield charge .
Sonic mentioned it on another thread recently, HC is dot, cannon is burst. IF you want to maximize DPS you'd wanna get (or possibly max) both since they don't overwrite each other. Personally i leave cannon at 1 and maxed HC. Once i got enough crit lvl 1 cannon should still does its job well as a burst. Then again I'm an offtank.
needless to say Battle order helps knights who stack str more, these guys happens to be tank knights. Whilst battle tactics is more favorable to those who stack agi more since without crit BT is useless. these guys are usually more dps oriented.
Getting both is good. But if you need points to put in other skills then this is something worth considering.
Another thing about Battle order is that if you have another swordie in your party that's a waste of 4 points for one of you guys since the buff don't stack.
Shield charge 1/5 is already useful as it is. But if you're pvp oriented getting 5/5 probably wont be a waste, that is if you can scavenge enough points for it.

But then again. What was your question again iyoter?

Edit: Wtfast since you seem to be really grinded about HC vs cannon thing. I'd love to see you prove it to me that 5/5 HC is worse than 1/5 cannon at 12% crit chance. Cos that's what i roll and that's why cannon sucks in my build.
On the flip side 1/5 HC will be worse than 5/5 cannon crit or not. If that's what i rolled then my HC would be the one that sucks.
This applies to Bash/AS vs cannon too. 5/5 > 1/5

To clarify, I agree that cannon is worth getting and that's why i got 1/5 on it. but i got more important stuffs to spend my 4 other points on. 1/5 cannon already functions perfectly as a burst skill given enough crit%.

I don't think I derail this post. Iyo was asking about shield cannon and considering making a build without shield cannon which I think is a really bad move because his decision was purely base on a post created by a guy that doesn't know what he was talking about. So my challenge to all these knights that think shield cannon sucks, dropped shield cannon and investing five skill points in something else to have a duel so Iyo will know What to get for his Knight. And then on another post some guys were talking about Max out head crush with bash and Aura strike combo, forget about shield cannon will deal more damage. Since you are 5/5 head crush and 1/5 shield cannon and we can go to pvp arena kill the raid boss scarecrow side by side, see who will finish first. Perfect scenario is we have enough points to Max both but sadly this is not the case. Again, picking DoT over instant burst damage is not logical and willing to do a test with on pvp and pve.

Edited by Wtfast, 14 July 2013 - 12:08 AM.

  • 0

#31 Yoruno

Yoruno

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:32 PM

so long as you can degrade yourself to match my stats, im up for it. Minus aura blade and battle order too since i got 1/5 on both..

http://i.imgur.com/8sdYDX1.png

 

Edit: actually you can pop aura blade. since i got BT while you dont.


Edited by Yoruno, 13 July 2013 - 11:35 PM.

  • 0

#32 Wtfast

Wtfast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 100 posts
  • LocationAlberta channel 5
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:17 AM

The only time I said forget battle tactic was to a guy that planning to play his Knight pve only and he didn't have battle tactic in the first place so why bother to spend money or zenny to reskill? Just simply get Dodge/parry armor with full str parry accessories and be a super tanky Knight because that was his main focus. Ah... I will wait for you to have full Colo then we can do the test.

Edited by Wtfast, 14 July 2013 - 12:19 AM.

  • 0

#33 iyoter

iyoter

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Banned
  • 566 posts
  • LocationPhilippines
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:43 AM

@Sonic

 

Well, the reason why I want my knight to be more pvp/duel oriented because I spend most of the time in Alberta talking and dueling. Although it isn't my main, I've been playing it more lately because my friends joined the game late and they don't want to duel my ranger. Also, they needed a tank that's why if possible I want a build that is more pvp and can tank end game raids decently.

 

I thought I got a good build (from first post) but then I went to this forums and was mind blown. Yeah LuBu's crit build confused me and now I can't decide which skill not to max/take.

 

So, how about this? http://www.ro2skills...dCrFdBrBednoas1


Edited by iyoter, 14 July 2013 - 12:55 AM.

  • 0

#34 LuBuFengXian

LuBuFengXian

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 251 posts
  • LocationXia Pi
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:02 AM

A tank needs to be able to tank as well as being able to dish out the DPS to keep ULTRA STRONG DPS RAID MEMBERS AT BAY.

 

Having to deal with the likes of Swifty and Rivalry it's imperative that I can hold agro.

 

TONIGHT I WILL TEST KALANDROS AND SEE IF HE HAS THE MUSCLES IT TAKES I CANNOT ****ING WAIT AEFGHG

 

BATTLE TACTICS AWRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


  • 0

#35 Voltorios

Voltorios

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 118 posts
  • LocationHiding behind my shield.
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:33 PM

Shield cannon sux?  oh man, any knight that can beat me in a 1v1 fight without shield cannon I give that person 10k zenny, lets leave it at that.

+1 lol Idk about you but some times if I get 3 crits with shield cannon I can pull over 3k dmg. Idk if thats good or not but to me its pretty great.


  • 0

#36 Guest_VolunteerMod12_*

Guest_VolunteerMod12_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:36 PM

Shield cannon sux?  oh man, any knight that can beat me in a 1v1 fight without shield cannon I give that person 10k zenny, lets leave it at that.

 

An old friend of mine used to say all the time that Shield Cannon was a waste of skill points, simply because if you factor in animation time and damage dealt, Aura Strike is more effective, especially if it crits. That being said, I usually disagreed, and maintained my 5/5 Shield Cannon. 


  • 0

#37 Yoruno

Yoruno

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:47 PM

On a related note, Can someone do some maths for me?

Assuming there's 3 knights with 2000AP, damage dealt with;
3 5/5 Shield cannons over 60 secs at 0% crit rate

3 5/5 Shield cannons over 60 secs at 15% crit rate

 

3 5/5 Shield cannons, 1 1/5HC over 60 secs at 0% crit rate

3 5/5 Shield cannons, 1 1/5HC over 60 secs at 15% crit rate

3 5/5 Shield cannons, 1 1/5HC over 60 secs at 25% crit rate

 

2 5/5 Cannon, 1 1/5 Cannon and 1 5/5HC over 60secs at 0% crit rate

2 5/5 Cannon, 1 1/5 Cannon and 1 5/5HC over 60secs at 15% crit rate

2 5/5 Cannon, 1 1/5 Cannon and 1 5/5HC over 60secs at 25% crit rate

 

Note that cannons are to be used every 30secs so 2x on cannon dmg.

 


Edited by Yoruno, 17 July 2013 - 08:47 PM.

  • 0

#38 Wtfast

Wtfast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 100 posts
  • LocationAlberta channel 5
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:47 PM

+1 lol Idk about you but some times if I get 3 crits with shield cannon I can pull over 3k dmg. Idk if thats good or not but to me its pretty great.

 

I crit 2.5k to 2.9k each hit on Shield cannon and I have 35% crit rate.  I LoL at people that even bother to do the math on paper comparing Head Crush and Shield Cannon, worry about the animation and the what if they get stun or knock down while using Shield Cannon because that means they just wasted 3 auras but they don't know that Shield Cannon's damage still register regardless the animation is complete or not.


Edited by Wtfast, 17 July 2013 - 11:49 PM.

  • 0

#39 ZefirusKZ

ZefirusKZ

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 168 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2

Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:40 AM

So, concluding all the posts here:

It's better to have 5/5 HC and use 2B/1AS, when you're undergeared (low crit chance, low vigor), in order to maximize your DPS. But, when you have decent crit chance and vigor rate, just respec to build with 5 SC.


  • 0

#40 Wtfast

Wtfast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 100 posts
  • LocationAlberta channel 5
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:16 AM

Since the game is full of bugs and I am bored out of my mind.  Roughly took 9:22 to kill Raidboss Scarecrow.  Max damage on Bash 2600+, Aura Strike 4900+, Shield Cannon 3000 each hit.  Knight's stat at the end of video.

 


Edited by Wtfast, 18 July 2013 - 01:17 AM.

  • 0

#41 Kalandros

Kalandros

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1476 posts
  • LocationQuébec
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Yggdrasil

Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:00 AM

I need full colo gear ;[


  • 0

#42 Yoruno

Yoruno

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:53 AM

Beware for when you lol at the abyss, the abyss lols back at you. =V

Personally i have fun looking at statistics and theorycrafts as much as i enjoy the game itself so dont mind me (or us) going nerdy over here.


  • 0

#43 SonicTMP

SonicTMP

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 346 posts
  • LocationAlone in the dishwasher
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:54 AM

So, concluding all the posts here:

It's better to have 5/5 HC and use 2B/1AS, when you're undergeared (low crit chance, low vigor), in order to maximize your DPS. But, when you have decent crit chance and vigor rate, just respec to build with 5 SC.

 

2B-AS is equal to standard rotation. They over take each other every 2 hits for damage and it's barely any difference when they do. Crit chance makes no difference in this regards. It's a matter of preference.

 

HC is always good to max if you have the points to do so. Remember it's a DoT and doesn't interrupt any other skill once applied.

SC works better the more crit you have but at certain values (currently unknown since we can't get that much crit chance) AS will be more effective.


  • 0

#44 Haboob

Haboob

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 931 posts
  • LocationBattlegrounds
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2

Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:00 PM

HC and SC are both really good skills and the true enemy is not what you think it is.

 

Shield Cannon:

SC is the best you want it, you need it, you love it.

88% SC > 45% aura strike. burst burst burst. GET THE SKILL.

 

HeadCrush:

Head Crush 5/5.

45% atk damage over 30 seconds from pointing HC from 1/5 to 5/5.

 

SC vs HC?

SC has a 3 aura requirement meaning it adds 43%(88%-45% AS) damage to your rotation every 30 seconds (not counting vigor which would only up the DPS even more) vs the solid 45% damage from a 5/5 HC. This means both skills are awesome! The only reason one would not get SC is cuz they think it would throw their rotation off...

 

Heres the damn build.

http://www.ro2skills...qCrfdBqoeDdBbs1

extra points? those go into battle order because OBB parties.

 

 

Retired skills!

 

5/5 Battle Order to 3/5. 4% STR gone, it wont be missed. The % damage skills are better anyways.

Concentration. 20% ATK, gone... Aura shield/armor and concentration just dont mix(even in Colosseum), oh well.

Aura Blade. Aura what?

 

This is the true hybrid build i do say so myself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


  • 0

#45 Wtfast

Wtfast

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 100 posts
  • LocationAlberta channel 5
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online 2
  • Server:Odin

Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

HC and SC are both really good skills and the true enemy is not what you think it is.

 

Shield Cannon:

SC is the best you want it, you need it, you love it.

88% SC > 45% aura strike. burst burst burst. GET THE SKILL.

 

HeadCrush:

Head Crush 5/5.

45% atk damage over 30 seconds from pointing HC from 1/5 to 5/5.

 

SC vs HC?

SC has a 3 aura requirement meaning it adds 43%(88%-45% AS) damage to your rotation every 30 seconds (not counting vigor which would only up the DPS even more) vs the solid 45% damage from a 5/5 HC. This means both skills are awesome! The only reason one would not get SC is cuz they think it would throw their rotation off...

 

Heres the damn build.

http://www.ro2skills...qCrfdBqoeDdBbs1

extra points? those go into battle order because OBB parties.

 

 

Retired skills!

 

5/5 Battle Order to 3/5. 4% STR gone, it wont be missed. The % damage skills are better anyways.

Concentration. 20% ATK, gone... Aura shield/armor and concentration just dont mix(even in Colosseum), oh well.

Aura Blade. Aura what?

 

This is the true hybrid build i do say so myself.

Wanna duel? just for fun.  I am always on Channel 5 Alberta


  • 0

#46 Yoruno

Yoruno

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:24 PM

2B-AS is equal to standard rotation. They over take each other every 2 hits for damage and it's barely any difference when they do. Crit chance makes no difference in this regards. It's a matter of preference.

 

HC is always good to max if you have the points to do so. Remember it's a DoT and doesn't interrupt any other skill once applied.

SC works better the more crit you have but at certain values (currently unknown since we can't get that much crit chance) AS will be more effective.

 

I am going to assume you've tested the rotation yourself so i'll take your word for it. One other reason I pick 2B rotation over 3B though is the hit rate. I'd rather 2aura AS miss than my 3aura AS. Not sure if hit rate is of any concern endgame but im still reliably getting quite abit of misses on poisona so.. yah.

 

Edit: I still go up to 3aura in colo when i need to burst ks someone. Or when i do one extra bash accidentally, though this isnt a problem with 2B rotation since i dont waste an aura gain.


Edited by Yoruno, 18 July 2013 - 11:26 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users