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Battle tactics VS Shield charge


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#1 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:29 AM

Hello. I just got my Knight to 50. I'm thinking of resetting him to this build --> http://www.ro2skills...dnrFdBqoeDnObs1

But I noticed a lot of Knights here prefer Battle Tactics so I'm kinda wondering why that's why I posted this hoping to get some suggestions.


Edited by iyoter, 13 July 2013 - 04:30 AM.

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#2 Kalandros

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 08:12 AM

Your lack of Battle Tactics AND Concentration is worrying.


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#3 EdsonDC

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 08:41 AM

Your skillset suggests you're pure tank and doesn't care much about pvp so better just take battle tactics though with a few tweaks you could possibly get both. I dont think GC 3 makes so much difference for threat generation since you'll mainly use pots for that anyway so better just drop it to 1 and work from there.


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#4 Funen1

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:01 AM

If you're going for a PvE tank build, I find that only the first 47 skill points (up to level 45) might be considered set in stone. There really isn't a whole lot a tank Knight would absolutely need beyond the obvious things like Shield Cannon, Aura Shield, Shield Fortress, etc. Personally I wouldn't want to lower any tanking ability with Concentration, and Battle Tactics at least increases your crit damage without sacrificing defense. Would it be fair to say that the last two points are really just up to the user?


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#5 Wtfast

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:29 PM

The fact that you have shield charge at 4/5 suggesting you want to do some kinda pvp but then you don't have concentration and battle tactic kinda contradicting your whole idea of investing more than one skill point in shield charge.


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#6 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:45 PM

Ok I read somewhere that BT is actually pretty good and Shield Cannon suck. How about this build? http://www.ro2skills...dCrFdBrBadnobs1. And yes I want to pvp but also to tank something in pve.


Edited by iyoter, 13 July 2013 - 12:46 PM.

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#7 Wtfast

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

Shield cannon sux?  oh man, any knight that can beat me in a 1v1 fight without shield cannon I give that person 10k zenny, lets leave it at that.


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#8 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:13 PM

Shield cannon sux?  oh man, any knight that can beat me in a 1v1 fight without shield cannon I give that person 10k zenny, lets leave it at that.

Well it's in here http://forums.warppo...cannon-vs-bash/ they pretty much convinced me. But can you tell me why do you think SC is a must? Other than that, what can you say about the build? What skill should I not get? Is Aura Shield needed?


Edited by iyoter, 13 July 2013 - 01:15 PM.

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#9 Haboob

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:12 PM

Are you going for a pure tank or more of a hybrid approach?

 

Pure tanks don't need battle tactics while a hybrid would. I would only recommend SC if you had BT plus a whole other set of DPS gear, otherwise i wouldnt put points into that skill.

 

Aura shield is great it helps lessen the strain on healers during party time and is a useful to help stay alive all situations really.


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#10 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:22 PM

Are you going for a pure tank or more of a hybrid approach?

 

Pure tanks don't need battle tactics while a hybrid would. I would only recommend SC if you had BT plus a whole other set of DPS gear, otherwise i wouldnt put points into that skill.

 

Aura shield is great it helps lessen the strain on healers during party time and is a useful to help stay alive all situations really.

I don't have anymore skill points for Shield Cannon so I'm just gonna ask about the combos for S.Cannon to help me think about it.

 

How do you pull it off? 

S.Charge>Bash>Concentration>Bash>S.Bash>Bash>S.Cannon?

 

PS:

If I'm going to get S.Cannon, should I need Aura Strike and Aura Mastery? Because S.Charge, S.Bash and S.Cannon all cooldown in 30s so how am I going to use AS in pvp? Yeah I want to focus more on pvp but also I hope I could still effectively tank raids like CoA H. How about this build? http://www.ro2skills...dCrBdBrBeBnobs1 or this http://www.ro2skills...dCrFdBrBeBnoas1

 

PPS:

What I don't like about Concentration is that you need 1 Aura to cast it, which means you can't use it before battle, which means it might be a waste of time during pvp because ever second the enemy is stunned is precious because as soon as he gets up I'm pretty sure he's going to snare/free/stun me.

 

So is Concentration really that good? It just boost atk power in 15s in exchange for, I don't know, 2sec of precious free hits to the enemy?

 

PPPS:

Can a Knight survive 15-20s being in S.Fortress and Aura Shield against a Ranger in duels? I'm thinking of using those skills when I'm snared or probably if I wan't to wait for my skills to cooldown.


Edited by iyoter, 13 July 2013 - 02:50 PM.

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#11 Haboob

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:50 PM

 

PPS:

What I don't like about Concentration is that you need 1 Aura to cast it, which means you can't use it before battle, which means it might be a waste of time during pvp because ever second the enemy is stunned is precious because as soon as he gets up I'm pretty sure he's going to snare/free/stun me.

 

So is Concentration really that good? It just boost atk power in 15s in exchange for, I don't know, 2sec of precious free hits to the enemy?

 

PPPS:

Can a Knight survive 15-20s being in S.Fortress and Aura Shield against a Ranger in duels? I'm thinking of using those skills when I'm snared or probably if I wan't to wait for my skills to cooldown.

Concentration is 15 seconds per aura consumed up to a 45 seconds duration. Being a tank your battle will most likey last up to 20-45 seconds so it's best to keep concentration up when you can at all times. Only time i would turn off Concentration is when im being nuked by a sorc, thats it. Your only concern will be sorcs, haha not rangers, rangers are mince meat for you.

 

I don't have anymore skill points for Shield Cannon so I'm just gonna ask about the combos for S.Cannon to help me think about it.

 

How do you pull it off? 

S.Charge>Bash>Concentration>Bash>S.Bash>Bash>S.Cannon?

 

PS:

If I'm going to get S.Cannon, should I need Aura Strike? Because S.Charge, S.Bash and S.Cannon all cooldown in 30s so how am I going to use AS in pvp? Yeah I want to focus more on pvp but also I hope I could still effectively tank raids like CoA H.

 

Are you asking for PvP tips or a general rotation?

 

General PvP:

Start the battle with a shield boomerang -> bash your enemy until 3 aura are gained or mastery procs -> Concentration -> HeadCrush -> Bash until enemy is around 65% HP wait for 3 aura or aura mastery procs -> Aura Strike(3 aura)-> Shield cannon -> Shield bash(if needed) -> Bash for up to 3 aura ->  Aura strike(3 aura). Your target should be dead by then and you will usually have 3 aura left due to mastery to cast Concentration for the next target.

 

tipz

1. Shield charge is not part of your DPS rotation usually. Save it for targets who are running at the speed of light and you need to catch them.

 

2. SC is not a KS move but more of a solid DPS burst which really rips opponents HP down. Always finish your targets off with a full powered Aura Strike it's safer this way

 

 

As for cooldowns they are not global so all these skills work together so no problems there.


Edited by 6224130502210709307, 13 July 2013 - 03:25 PM.

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#12 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:56 PM

Can you link you build, Sir? I think I get it but I'm a bit confused still. 


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#13 Kalandros

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:28 PM

Shield cannon sux?  oh man, any knight that can beat me in a 1v1 fight without shield cannon I give that person 10k zenny, lets leave it at that.

 

What class and what character? I'd take you on.


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#14 Haboob

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:44 PM

I'm using a hybrid skill set without shield cannon here. http://www.ro2skills...dCrsqBrBaddBbs1 It's mostly an old OBB rush build and im considering trashing aura blade for max headcrush for some devilish reason ;D Or maybe drop battle order all together im really on the fence about my own builds.

 

But if you must have SC i made this build for you. http://www.ro2skills...dCqSdBrBeDdBbs1

 

For raids the warrior can supply the battle order and you get to keep your shield cannon.


Edited by 6224130502210709307, 13 July 2013 - 03:48 PM.

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#15 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

I'm using a hybrid skill set without shield cannon here. http://www.ro2skills...dCrsqBrBaddBbs1 It's mostly an old OBB rush build and im considering trashing aura blade for max headcrush for some devilish reason ;D Or maybe drop battle order all together im really on the fence about my own builds.

 

But if you must have SC i made this build for you. http://www.ro2skills...dCqSdBrBeDdBbs1

 

For raids the warrior can supply the battle tactics and you get to keep your shield cannon.

Thanks..but Shield Charge at Lv 1? :( Do Knights die fast before pulling two Lv 4 S.Charge in a duel? Say against a Ranger or a Sorc? I don't want to be kited and if even I'm unable to move, I'm going to use Fortress.

 

Also is full Headcrush good in pvp? How much is the DoT if you have full Colo set vs full Colo set enemy?


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#16 Haboob

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:01 PM

So your concerns are based around none pot duels? All my provided information was gathered from attending Colosseums which i assumed you wanted. Hmm I've dueled a bit without using pots and got wrecked, okay. Max shield charge wont save you unless you get lucky CRITs.

 

 

As for the DoT it does around 150-160 each tick using lvl 1 HC on a full colo. My reasoning is a lot your time spent fighting is being kited so max HC is actually a DPS increase over a maxed battle order.

 

Even maxed aura blade raises your attack above what lvl 5 battle order would give you, and thats all you need to apply the dot is a high atk at the start of each battle.

 

 


Edited by 6224130502210709307, 13 July 2013 - 04:02 PM.

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#17 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

Ahhh ok..good point about HC. Now I'm more confused.

My main concern is about none pot duels....against my friends :D I want to trashtalk on their dead bodies.

Colo, well, there are a lot of work around of it so I'm not really bothered.


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#18 LuBuFengXian

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

NON-POT DUELS? JUST CRIT THEM AND BLOW THEIR FACE OFF WITH ULTIMATE STEROIDS MUSCLES

 

I DUELED A ROGUE TODAY AND HE ALMOST KILLED ME BECAUSE I AM FAT AND USELESS AND HE HEALED WITH GANGSTER'S BUT THEN I CRIT HIM FOR 10K ALL OF A SUDDEN AND I WON


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#19 Haboob

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

Oh you.


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#20 Kalandros

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:33 PM

its annoying, Tension Relax and Gangster's paradise is unfair for my Knight


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#21 Wtfast

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:22 PM

What class and what character? I'd take you on.

oh? oh? you are a knight? so you think you can take on my knight without shield cannon? bet is 10k? only self buff, regular food and pot, no red pot duel.  2/3 or 4/7? I will sure record it and post it on forum to let all these expert knights going head crush and no shield cannon = fail.


Edited by Wtfast, 13 July 2013 - 05:29 PM.

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#22 EdsonDC

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:25 PM

tell me if this match is happening so I can watch.


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#23 iyoter

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:44 PM

Me too I wanna watch and probably a side bet too if anyone is willing for 1k (just no conspiracy) :P


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#24 Kalandros

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:02 PM

oh? oh? you are a knight? so you think you can take on my knight without shield cannon? bet is 10k? only self buff, regular food and pot, no red pot duel.  2/3 or 4/7? I will sure record it and post it on forum to let all these expert knights going head crush and no shield cannon = fail.

 

No bet, you said you'd give me 10k if I beat you with my knight.

 

PM me on Llael when I'm on, I don't know your character.

I'll most likely lose if you outgear me (I don't have full colo~) but I'll give it a go anyway


Edited by Kalandros, 13 July 2013 - 06:04 PM.

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#25 Haboob

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:20 PM

oh? oh? you are a knight? so you think you can take on my knight without shield cannon? bet is 10k? only self buff, regular food and pot, no red pot duel.  2/3 or 4/7? I will sure record it and post it on forum to let all these expert knights going head crush and no shield cannon = fail.

 

Oh are you a pure DPS knight vigor gear and all? I foresee stun spam with a dash of double SC ftw. Lets see who wins.


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