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#1 Fold

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

Here's a couple suggestions, from both an attacking and defending point of view:

 

1. Create a safe zone in the spawn for ~30m and prevent any siege from being deployed anywhere near the spawn point (50m, maybe more). Likewise, prevent any catapults/cannons from being fired towards the spawn point (Just reflect the damage back like the statues do)

 

2. Create a limit on deploy-able siege equipment as well as reducing their damage dealt, I guess the numbers could be fine-tuned but here's what I think would be reasonable for a large scale battle:

  • 5 Barricade Limit - Same amount of health
  • 2-3 Cannon Limit - 5000 Damage
  • 1-2 Catapult Limit - 20000 Damage
  • 5-8 Battering Ram Limit (If these are limited the walls HP might need to be decreased to compensate)
  • 2-3 Crossbow Limit - 10000 Damage
  • 3-4 Singijeon Limit - 2000 Damage - Applies a "Pinned" status effect which roots for ~3 seconds. Affects Diminishing Returns.
  • 3-4 Mortar Limit - 0 Damage. Applies status effects.
  • Statues should not be limited

  - Cannons should definitely not be one shotting players with their given fire rate and radius.

 

  - On the contrary, Catapults are heavy, slow-firing siege weapons and should be treated as such. I feel as if 20K damage is reasonable for their fire rate.

 

  - Crossbows have a pretty fast fire rate, but a very limited blast radius. As such, they should be around 10K because they are easy to dodge.

 

  - Singijeons need some love, however. I feel like everything a Singijeon can do right now, a Cannon can do better. They should have some kind of effect which would make them valuable in the battlefield. I came up with a root which diminishes over time (To prevent root spamming), but I'm sure there are better ideas out there from the community.

 

3. Defense Stone Statue should be renamed to Support Statue or War Statue, something along the lines of that. Right now, the name implies that it would defend players when it provides a movement/attack buff instead, and it is causing unnecessary confusion.

 

4. Allow the guild's siege equipment to be destroyed upon command. If there is going to be a limit on siege equipment, as there should be, it is important that we have the option to destroy and rebuild at a different position.

 

5. This might be out of the reach of developers for awhile since it involves completely overhauling the woe map, but they should consider revamping the Ruins of Beholder/Barracks area to be located below the first gate and contain a Warmaster in each area. Killing said warmaster would grant the guild buffs that they could use to push the defending teams.

 

  • Destroying the Warmaster at Barracks: 20% increased Siege Damage & (50% increased Ram Damage maybe?)
  • Destroying the Warmaster at Ruins of Beholder: Doubles the capacity of deploy-able siege equipment.

The main reason I would like to see this implemented is to create a wider set of choices attacking guilds could make against the defender. Instead of pushing at a choke or   knocking on a door for an hour, a guild could consider grabbing these buffs to enhance their assault. This would in turn make it harder on the defense, which is absolutely needed right now, which leads to the next suggestion..

 

6. WoE should last much longer. On kRO2 right now it lasts for about 3 hours. I think this may be a little too long, something along the lines of 2 hours would be perfect for an event like this. I know it's still in testing phase, but this should still be considered and implemented during the testing phase to see how it works out for the server. This would probably conflict with Colosseum times, so times would have to be adjusted.

 

As of right now with the time allowed, it is EXTREMELY difficult for an opposing guild to take down 2 walls and an Emperium within an hour, especially with heavy resistance. When Collision did it, we had the assistance of Ice, with absolutely NO resistance. As we held the 2 chokes leading up to the first gate, we both combined our rams and BARELY made it in the time allowed (~5 minutes to spare). That's two guilds teaming up to take down around ~60 million health worth of defenses, without even dealing with opposing cannon fire or barricades. No matter what people say, it IS overtuned for the time allowed, which is why I think it should be 2 hours. Please consider this, or else you're gonna see the same guild defending for a very long time.

 

7. Please allow the defending guild to be able to warp through their own gates. I noticed you can talk to the gates, but nothing even happens when you click on them. I'm sure something was trying to be implemented here, but it just didn't make it through.

 

8. Allow some type of alliance system to be implemented. This would help attacking guilds ALOT more than defending guilds. As of right now, it's very easy for two allied defending guilds to completely ignore each other and hold their own choke, as opposed to two allied attacking guilds trying to hit the same thing and blowing themselves up. This also causes WAY too much confusion. We sometimes have to walk straight up to random siege and ask them to identify themselves before we attack. That's completely unnecessary and should be fixed with an alliance system.

 

This is all I can think of right now, I can add more when I think of anything else.


Edited by Fold, 14 July 2013 - 12:10 PM.

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#2 starfire1234

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:52 AM

All of these sound pretty good. The damage seems high to me, but maybe after more experience with the equipment I will agree.

 

Also I know this is test, but if its three hours(which seems reasonable), please only have it 2 (at most 3) times a week. Or if you have them more often they have to be different castles as it does not make sense to be having to do woe so often. I would rather save supplies and have a good woe than having a whole bunch.

 

 


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#3 XionArcadia

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:18 PM

Just saying, Test WoE without siege gear all together. Make it ACTUAL guild vs guild, player vs player. It is Test Phases right? Dont see why this can't be an option. Just tweak down the damage on gates and guardians. Seems like more guilds will participate and bring in big numbers. Dunno but that sounds like server activity to me.

 


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#4 StrawberriKiwi

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:11 PM

I doubt they'd rid of the seige weapons since everything seems to be following korean and SEA version. Its like a 90% chance those things will stay since they've been developed as part of the game. I'm just not so certain as to why in kRO videos, people are all geared in AOD gears instead of the gears we are on right now. This leads me to question as to why AoD wasn't released before WoE was. 

 

I really agree with Fold's suggestions. Those seem really constructed as compared to all the other rage threads that really just state to remove things people don't like. ;< However, I hope warp portal gets to those small bugs outside of WoE before they deal with all the changes in WoE cuz its seriously getting irritating to log in and experience lag spikes and have random strangers get into your parties >.>


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#5 Chizzmaks

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:53 PM

I agree on folds point on creating a safe zone however the siege weapons need to put a limit and cool down before you can build another one it gives a chance for the guild who will siege the castle more a fair game. The damage of siege weapons a little bit high they should keep itim e MAxx 3000 to give way for some player to survive than die on the hands of the siege weapons. This suggestions will be a great idea if they will also keep in mind to balanced everything before they implement it.
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#6 Feliface

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:25 AM

MOST of what fold has suggested sounds quite reasonable acctually,  [ so long as that limit is per guild and not per player ]. 

 

But it would be better to try out a WoE where it is only player vs player as Xion said and then from there decide how much nerfing should be done to those seige weapons. . Even if this is done just as a temporary test, i do believe it would bring up server activity dramatically, as it was what most players who have fallen inactive were looking forward to.  [ from playing ro1 ]


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#7 Alvana

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:42 AM

If they remove every siege weapons in WoE even for a one-time test, not one of us will break the first door (taking into account that the castle is reset to neutral), trust me on this. Castle will never get captured, might as well remove it and make this a big GvG circle battlegrounds.


Edited by Alvana, 15 July 2013 - 01:43 AM.

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#8 Feliface

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:17 AM

well obviously if they remove the weapons then they would need to lower the HPs of things [that was assumed] duhh. hahha. but tbh i see no harm in leaving the battering rams around for that purpose and just removing the other things


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#9 Alvana

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:33 AM

You don't get the point sexy, no one will hit the door if there's no siege engine. Due to lag, delays and crappy combat mechanics everyone will die in AoEs/ST near it.


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#10 iJojo

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:47 AM

Here's a couple suggestions, from both an attacking and defending point of view:

 

1. Create a safe zone in the spawn for ~30m and prevent any siege from being deployed anywhere near the spawn point (50m, maybe more). Likewise, prevent any catapults/cannons from being fired towards the spawn point (Just reflect the damage back like the statues do)

 

2. Create a limit on deploy-able siege equipment as well as reducing their damage dealt, I guess the numbers could be fine-tuned but here's what I think would be reasonable for a large scale battle:

  • 5 Barricade Limit - Same amount of health
  • 2-3 Cannon Limit - 5000 Damage
  • 1-2 Catapult Limit - 20000 Damage
  • 5-8 Battering Ram Limit (If these are limited the walls HP might need to be decreased to compensate)
  • 2-3 Crossbow Limit - 10000 Damage
  • 3-4 Singijeon Limit - 2000 Damage - Applies a "Pinned" status effect which roots for ~3 seconds. Affects Diminishing Returns.
  • 3-4 Mortar Limit - 0 Damage. Applies status effects.
  • Statues should not be limited

  - Cannons should definitely not be one shotting players with their given fire rate and radius.

 

  - On the contrary, Catapults are heavy, slow-firing siege weapons and should be treated as such. I feel as if 20K damage is reasonable for their fire rate.

 

  - Crossbows have a pretty fast fire rate, but a very limited blast radius. As such, they should be around 10K because they are easy to dodge.

 

  - Singijeons need some love, however. I feel like everything a Singijeon can do right now, a Cannon can do better. They should have some kind of effect which would make them valuable in the battlefield. I came up with a root which diminishes over time (To prevent root spamming), but I'm sure there are better ideas out there from the community.

 

3. Defense Stone Statue should be renamed to Support Statue or War Statue, something along the lines of that. Right now, the name implies that it would defend players when it provides a movement/attack buff instead, and it is causing unnecessary confusion.

 

4. Allow the guild's siege equipment to be destroyed upon command. If there is going to be a limit on siege equipment, as there should be, it is important that we have the option to destroy and rebuild at a different position.

 

5. This might be out of the reach of developers for awhile since it involves completely overhauling the woe map, but they should consider revamping the Ruins of Beholder/Barracks area to be located below the first gate and contain a Warmaster in each area. Killing said warmaster would grant the guild buffs that they could use to push the defending teams.

 

  • Destroying the Warmaster at Barracks: 20% increased Siege Damage & (50% increased Ram Damage maybe?)
  • Destroying the Warmaster at Ruins of Beholder: Doubles the capacity of deploy-able siege equipment.

The main reason I would like to see this implemented is to create a wider set of choices attacking guilds could make against the defender. Instead of pushing at a choke or   knocking on a door for an hour, a guild could consider grabbing these buffs to enhance their assault. This would in turn make it harder on the defense, which is absolutely needed right now, which leads to the next suggestion..

 

6. WoE should last much longer. On kRO2 right now it lasts for about 3 hours. I think this may be a little too long, something along the lines of 2 hours would be perfect for an event like this. I know it's still in testing phase, but this should still be considered and implemented during the testing phase to see how it works out for the server. This would probably conflict with Colosseum times, so times would have to be adjusted.

 

As of right now with the time allowed, it is EXTREMELY difficult for an opposing guild to take down 2 walls and an Emperium within an hour, especially with heavy resistance. When Collision did it, we had the assistance of Ice, with absolutely NO resistance. As we held the 2 chokes leading up to the first gate, we both combined our rams and BARELY made it in the time allowed (~5 minutes to spare). That's two guilds teaming up to take down around ~60 million health worth of defenses, without even dealing with opposing cannon fire or barricades. No matter what people say, it IS overtuned for the time allowed, which is why I think it should be 2 hours. Please consider this, or else you're gonna see the same guild defending for a very long time.

 

7. Please allow the defending guild to be able to warp through their own gates. I noticed you can talk to the gates, but nothing even happens when you click on them. I'm sure something was trying to be implemented here, but it just didn't make it through.

 

8. Allow some type of alliance system to be implemented. This would help attacking guilds ALOT more than defending guilds. As of right now, it's very easy for two allied defending guilds to completely ignore each other and hold their own choke, as opposed to two allied attacking guilds trying to hit the same thing and blowing themselves up. This also causes WAY too much confusion. We sometimes have to walk straight up to random siege and ask them to identify themselves before we attack. That's completely unnecessary and should be fixed with an alliance system.

 

This is all I can think of right now, I can add more when I think of anything else.

Good job! Reminds me of how GW2 Siege warfair works


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#11 KIyde

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:00 AM

Just saying, Test WoE without siege gear all together. Make it ACTUAL guild vs guild, player vs player. It is Test Phases right? Dont see why this can't be an option. Just tweak down the damage on gates and guardians. Seems like more guilds will participate and bring in big numbers. Dunno but that sounds like server activity to me.

 

That means only the Colo heavy players a and pay2win people will dominate. At least siege weapons give all players a strategic advantage. Giving credit where credit is due, EssenceOfFate is a good example where he has probably killed 50+ Collision members (by himself I believe) through siege weapons just based on where he places it by sneaking through.


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#12 XionArcadia

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:11 AM

That introduces another topic of alliances... smaller guilds band together to topple the bigger ones... maybe diplomacy is more important than people realize? When someone is a jerk and in the guild leader position, the members have the choice to leave or follow the leaders ideals. If that person is smarting enough we see multiple guilds teaming up against that guild. We have already seen this. All I am saying is why can't we test these two things? You guys are fighting tooth and nail to not even let it be tested? God forbid we see activity on the WoE map that isn't IcE, Collision, or the stealth troll squad. Isint it funny how 50+ barricades and seige tools can sprout up in 30 seconds of WoE starting? Just remove them and see how well guilds work together and actually require skill.

Edited by XionArcadia, 15 July 2013 - 06:17 AM.

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#13 LuBuFengXian

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:28 AM

That introduces another topic of alliances... smaller guilds band together to topple the bigger ones... maybe diplomacy is more important than people realize? When someone is a jerk and in the guild leader position, the members have the choice to leave or follow the leaders ideals. If that person is smarting enough we see multiple guilds teaming up against that guild. We have already seen this. All I am saying is why can't we test these two things? You guys are fighting tooth and nail to not even let it be tested? God forbid we see activity on the WoE map that isn't IcE, Collision, or the stealth troll squad. Isint it funny how 50+ barricades and seige tools can sprout up in 30 seconds of WoE starting? Just remove them and see how well guilds work together and actually require skill.

WHY DOES THAT SOUND SO MUCH FAMILIAR?


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#14 XionArcadia

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:48 AM

Because your muscles didnt stop him soon enough. Need more stronk!


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#15 Kaltrun

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:14 AM

First off, Fold, this is a very nice laid out and understandable suggestion (with which I totally agree, with some minor clarifications).
 

2. I agree with this limit, but make it per person not guild. Add the bleed effect where if its unmanned - its slowly loses hp. Bleed effect to stationary objects and uncompleted objects (ie. barricades and unfinished sieged engines).

5. I like the idea but I'd rather they be used as guardians, to defend a breach on the wall. So instead of breaking down the door, people can use the alternated route. The guardian needs to be destroyed first before passing the breach, otherwise expect those that can stealth to abuse that part.

 

8. Alliances should be implemented but limit them to 1 allied cant guild. So the other alliances cant just zerg the defenders and their alliance. (Only thing I'm gonna miss is asking one "allied" member to kill me so I can respawn somewhere else).

 

 

Lastly, Xion, please stop asking for having the siege engines removed and think of a way of utilizing them, instead of coming in on every woe thread and asking(or trolling) to have them remove. There are a few people ingame that have been successful in sneaking some catapults/cannons pass our chokes lately. Why not try out what their doing instead of complaining over and over and over.....

 


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#16 2991130507093255470

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:21 AM

uhm imo barricades are the most unbalanced of all siege weapons/items.

u only need 1 woe-supply to build a 50+ k hp barricade, that means a 50+ k meat-wall every 2 seconds.

either increase supply or decrease hp.

as of now u need 3 catapult shots which are roughly 12-14 seconds and if they are down u need 2 seconds to rebuild them ~

 


Edited by 2991130507093255470, 15 July 2013 - 07:22 AM.

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#17 XionArcadia

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:43 AM

Why not tell people to stop posting their opinions since it is an OPEN FORUM. Obviously some people are afraid what happens when they have to play without their toys. Why not try it out and ACTUALLY participate in PvP? Or are you afraid?


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#18 Kaltrun

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:39 AM

Sorry, Fold, not trying to hijack your thread but I just wanted to clarify something

 

 

Why not tell people to stop posting their opinions since it is an OPEN FORUM. Obviously some people are afraid what happens when they have to play without their toys. Why not try it out and ACTUALLY participate in PvP? Or are you afraid?

 

I do PvP, that's how I got my PvP gear. I'm not afraid of PvP, but you are missing my point. I'm asking you to think and figure out a way around the machines.
 

Exodus was able to do just that btw, they snuck in behind enemy lines and was able to take down base of protection. Kudos to them. Now, where were you during that? I don't see you around WoE times trying to break our defenses. You have 2 days till they refund bloodpoints, please try and come up with some way past our chokepoint, and stop complaining in forums. See you inside.

Again, sorry Fold.

 


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#19 XionArcadia

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:35 AM

All you stated was "Blah Blah Blah, All the time you build up your characters for WoE was a waste of time and now being able to spam barricades before the 60 second mark is what WoE has become" About sums it up.


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#20 SonicTMP

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:59 AM

They won't fully remove all the weapons because that's not how this WoE is meant to work. This is not RO1. What Xion wants is basically GW2's WvW. A team based zerg deathmatch with doors, weapons, bass and guards all removed. It be a huge clusterfrack that wouldn't be any more fun that WoE right now.

 

Stop asking for removal of everything, it's not gonna happen. Switch your mind to how to fix and improve what it's suppost to be. Taking the castle should be a massive struggle and a reward, but not impossible. You have to really want it.

 

But so far is seems you really don't.  


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#21 Fold

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

I honestly don't believe WoE will be better without siege. They can test it for a week, but it is just going to open a whole new set of complaints: Class balance.

 

Think of it from a developer's point of view: If they decide to make WoE strictly player vs. player, then they are going to have to balance classes, which would in turn hurt PvE. Compare that to siege weapons, where it doesn't matter what they do with them, it only affects one side of the game. Which should they choose? The one that causes class riots and forces people to quit their game even faster, or the option that effects only one aspect of the game.

 

As far as siege capacity goes, it should be based on the guild, not the player. It wouldn't solve anything, it would just be the same number of vehicles we currently see on the battlefield.


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#22 vkleon

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:40 PM

8. Alliances should be implemented but limit them to 1 allied cant guild. So the other alliances cant just zerg the defenders and their alliance. (Only thing I'm gonna miss is asking one "allied" member to kill me so I can respawn somewhere else).

 

I think limit to 1 is very less, 2 will be good. Better idea if we can limit by the number of people in the guild therefore small guilds might have more chance by allying to more guilds


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#23 ShotsFired

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

I think limit to 1 is very less, 2 will be good. Better idea if we can limit by the number of people in the guild therefore small guilds might have more chance by allying to more guilds

 

Or you could level your guild and recruit.


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#24 vkleon

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:03 PM

Or you could level your guild and recruit.

 

That's why it's called small guilds. They dont have many achievements unlike the big guilds and have trouble recruiting. Not even talking about level, filling slots with active people is great already. Not every one is at the top, some plays casually and still wants to enjoy WOE. Unless warpportal wants WOE experience enjoyable only for the hardcore players
 


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