42 replies to this topic

[PFDandK]

I'd like to say something, I am fairly new to the forums.. But still I will give it a go..

 

A lot of good ideas here.  Glad to see you're actually listening to us and coming up with interesting ideas yourself.

 

Concerning Guild Skills: 

 

Guild skills should not have a "level requirement" to learn.  They should work just like any other skill tree-- if you have enough skill points (and learn the prerequisites), you can learn the skill you want.

 

There is no reason to force guilds to be level 20 to use the mediocre/limited guild storage.   Even when you increase it to a reasonable amount, I don't see why it needs such a huge investment-- there's nothing broken about giving guilds early access to their storage. Having to be level 10 just to learn a sub-par 5% mount movement speed buff is IMO stupid. 

 

Also, the current "guild level" requirement is completely unfair for those guilds that did not take full advantage of the PvP arena scarecrow exploit, because they either did not know about it or considered it cheating.  (The exploit I'm referring to is where when you killed the scarecrows that had ~3k HP, they rewarded you with ~500 experience a kill.  They give 0 experience now after the patch that "fixed" it.)

 

 

On Spawn camping:

 

-  Make the base spawn points like towns-- no one can attack each other.  And when they leave that safe zone make it so that "invisible boss wall" appears to block them from getting back in (unless they choose to do so via some other method).  This can help alleviate people dancing between the safe & hostile zones, as well as force people to be ready before they venture outside.

 

- Only allow siege weapons to be built if at least 500m away from the base safe zones (the ones people load into when they zone in from prontera), with exception to the defender's castle and gates.  This is the kind of thing they did in guild wars 2...and it works.

 

 

 

Some general ideas to improve WoE:

 

 

-  Do not show enemy locations on the map every time there is an individual skirmish.  Instead, only display a red dot if there are a SIGNIFICANT amount of skirmishes going on, and even then, 1 red dot in the general vicinity of those fights will suffice. 

 

Allow people to be ninjas and take people out without being picked up on the map radar.  If an entire raid is engaged in combat, then you can give people a hint of where they are.  This will force more communication and strategy.

 

-  Force people to have a certain amount of WoE supplies to build ANY and ALL siege weapons.  Please don't require a huge zeny price, as that won't reward strategy or skill. 

 

I don't mean to mention guild wars again (I know this isn't guild wars), BUT, in that game, they have it so players can only hold a limited amount of supplies, and then must use those supplies to create any weapon blueprints they have.  An individual player CANNOT complete a siege weapon all by himself-- in that game it required at least 2 people to use all their supplies in order to fully build one. 

 

I prefer this because it forces more strategy and will also force defenders to rotate who gets the WoE supply boxes in order to build more siege weapons.  People will have to stop defending to get more, and it will allow gaps where attackers actually have hopes of breaking in there without depending on a 100 player zerg.

 

-  Create a universal limit to the amount of siege weapons and barricades each guild can have active on the field at one time.

 

I don't know what this number should be, but if you do that you won't see 1000 barricades surrounded by 1000 cannons anymore.  You can allow guilds to constantly create siege weapons (and barriers) as they are destroyed, but they need a hard limit as to how many can be on the field at once.  (Perhaps make it 2 different limits, one for barricades and one for weapons).

 

I think if that's combined with the idea you have about "Siege hp deterioration when un-manned", you will make a lot of players happy.  It will force people to only use siege weapons when they feel it's necessary, and they won't want to leave that weapon because it will force them to get more supplies to rebuild it.  This will force people to make tough choices as to whether or not they should move somewhere else or stay holding the weapon the entire time.

 

 

That's just off the top of my head so far

 

I really like this idea actually, this will like what he said force guild to come up with strategies and actually use the supplies and or items they get efficiently and not just recklessly use it. I believe this suggestion will be good for WoE, this will make it fun and challenging.

 

For the Spawn camping I have another Idea in mind, this is already seen inside the PvP Arena, that whole area/map is a non-pvp zone except for the middle ring where everyone in it will change from the normal PvE mode to PvP (red names). You can also do this for WoE, having the entrance a non-pvp zone.

 

 


 
 
 
Where's point 7? Was it eaten by a panda?
 
 
 
Anyway, to point 1, I'll quote myself from a different topic:
 
 
 

 

Basically, I don't agree in having loss and gain the same, to be honest. I also don't agree in a percent system because at 1,000,000BP, 1% is 10,000 per kill. That's a hefty gain and a bit unfair for someone who has 100,000 and is only getting 1,000 per kill. What about someone who only has 50,000? 20,000? 10,000? 5,000? I don't agree with percentage suggestions at all.
 
I do like the suggestion of sharing it within a party/raid for support classes, though, as long as everyone still gets a set number (1,000, for example). A party of 10 people with 1,000 points divided among them is obviously 100 points a person, which isn't much, per kill, really.
 
 
Pertaining to that matter, I also think the size of the party/raid should be extended to 15+ in WoE (20 would be great, honestly). In a VOIP, you could have 5 chat groups of 20 people formed. It's easier to manage than 20 groups of 5, or 10 groups of 10.
 
 
Keeping in mind what I just said, along with everything you've said, I'm going to quote something else I've said in another topic:


 

For reference, the time-stamp in the above quote is wrong, but it's probably because I copied it from a locked topic or something.

 

 

As for what you said about alliances... Official alliances will make it even harder for smaller guilds, but unofficial ones do that now. However, honestly allowing a larger party system and making it so you can't attack your party members regardless of the guild the party members are in, would allow small alliances.

 

Even better, allowing guilds under 50 people to form official alliances (ones where you couldn't hurt each other under such alliances). Each guild could have up to 2 alliances. It wouldn't be too bad, considering people with 100+ are already having unofficial alliances. At least those people would be put at the disadvantage of accidentally hurting/killing an allied guild because it's not official, whereas the smaller guilds with official alliances wouldn't have that problem.

 

Like what is said here and to that other dude I was unable to quote, WoE should work like Colo, but in a different way. Say you don’t lose BP from your current BP, instead points will be evaluated “per guild”, meaning the point system from colo will be used but it will be totaled per guild and the amount of BP earned will depend on which rank your guild is placed (of course the highest would be the one who seized the castle) point should also be given for gates, capture points and etc. You should not lose any BP during WoE the risk of dying and repairing buying supplies, pots, defending and etc is already a sacrifice as it is. Anyway back to what I was saying, after WoE ends all of the guilds who participate will be ranked according to the total point they gained example:

Rank 1: 100K BP per member who participated during WoE (this would mean only those who were actually there during WoE will be given)

Rank 2: 50K BP ~

Rank 3: 30K BP ~

 

So on and so forth. This is only during WoE, if WoE is not active then you can go about doing a Maximum BP Gain per day. For example you can only gain/lose a total of 100K BP per day. This would nullify farmers and give a warning to other to actually try to be careful.

 

Also just to point out, the raid can hold up to 20, there are 4 Groups in 1 raid, maybe adding more would help. But you should disable raids inside WoE instead there should be an automatic list of people who are in the same guild who are inside the WoE Map. Would work like raids but, it is a guild only thing, this is to eliminate unofficial alliances if you really want that.

 

Hmmm, I guess that is all for now. I have lots and lots of ideas for RO2. Guess I’ll have to hold them back until next time.

[SoraOfKHK]

Like what is said here and to that other dude I was unable to quote, WoE should work like Colo, but in a different way. Say you don’t lose BP from your current BP, instead points will be evaluated “per guild”, meaning the point system from colo will be used but it will be totaled per guild and the amount of BP earned will depend on which rank your guild is placed (of course the highest would be the one who seized the castle) point should also be given for gates, capture points and etc. You should not lose any BP during WoE the risk of dying and repairing buying supplies, pots, defending and etc is already a sacrifice as it is. Anyway back to what I was saying, after WoE ends all of the guilds who participate will be ranked according to the total point they gained example:

Rank 1: 100K BP per member who participated during WoE (this would mean only those who were actually there during WoE will be given)

Rank 2: 50K BP ~

Rank 3: 30K BP ~

 

So on and so forth. This is only during WoE, if WoE is not active then you can go about doing a Maximum BP Gain per day. For example you can only gain/lose a total of 100K BP per day. This would nullify farmers and give a warning to other to actually try to be careful.

 

Also just to point out, the raid can hold up to 20, there are 4 Groups in 1 raid, maybe adding more would help. But you should disable raids inside WoE instead there should be an automatic list of people who are in the same guild who are inside the WoE Map. Would work like raids but, it is a guild only thing, this is to eliminate unofficial alliances if you really want that.

 

Hmmm, I guess that is all for now. I have lots and lots of ideas for RO2. Guess I’ll have to hold them back until next time.

 

Pertaining to the raid bit at the end there, honestly, I've never formed one, nor taken part in one. Basically, I'm just guessing based mostly on screenshots and people talking about them. It sounds/looks like 10 to me, so I was assuming that was the max. My mistake.

 

As for the rest, quite honestly, after thinking a bit, I've come to wonder if perhaps the loss is also there to invoke competition and rivalry and an attempt for a rematch to try getting your BP back somehow (although, with the current loss/gain being imbalanced, I don't see how). It would make more sense if we just had a separate currency in place for WoE than Colo. Could also force players to do WoE to get Tier 2 PVP gear, making it only purchasable with the new currency (currency only accumulated and spent in WoE, similar to Blood Points, of course).

 

Also, in Colo, if you can actually just get to round 4, even if you fail to get to round 5, if you have a bit over a dozen player and monster kills, you can accumulate around 20,000-40,000 points. That's just in a period of approximately 8 minutes in Colo. I did so the first time I actually made it to round four, which was recently. It actually surprised me, because I didn't believe you could actually get that much. Granted, the amount I got was closer to 25,000, whereas people were telling me around 42,000 just getting to round 5. I didn't even make it to 5 and still got a lot.

 

I've not done WoE in RO2, but considering content and time in WoE, if the time span is 1 hour (I think it is, not sure), and once a week, then 100,000BPs is a little unreasonable. Something along the lines of 250,000 would be more reasonable, if you're going to do a mass chunk like that, but even still, I think it should just depend on individual (like Colo), and group actions. The group action bonuses would add on to your individual actions, or the group actions could also cause a drop in points, too.

 

Then again, maybe I'm over-thinking this because I'm tired, because part of my brain is saying 100,000 might actually be fine.   With that, I'm going to bed.

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 16 July 2013 - 03:57 AM.

[Guthrun]

It is unacceptable that Warpportal and Gravity Live Test something that supposedly has been in development for a while. If the idea was to make us, consumers, part of the creation of WoE then congratulations because it has blown in your faces big time, you have made us feel the complete opposite.

 

a)Blood Points.

Earning or losing blood points during WoE is a stupid idea, whoever came up with this should be fired. Thanks to this idea there has been a lot of drama because people have lost so many points and gained almost nothing. However, if this idea is being pushed then I prefer to lose no blood points per death and gain a small set amount per kill. Another thing I would prefer if my first suggestion is not possible then I'd settle with gaining more bp from each kill than you lose from each dead. Ex: every time you die you lose 100 and every kill you get 150-200.

Now blood points should not be something to reward people for killing others, this fails to provide a sense of teamwork, people will focus on gaining points in order to get whatever rewards you release instead on focusing on working together for a common purpose. The purpose of WoE should be other than personal gain, and blood points scream just that.

I think it would be cool that guild that hold a caster would be given blood points to all it's members and be able to build more points by holding the castle through several woes, just like castle economy used to work in RO1. I think that would be a cool idea, altho guild who don't hold a castle would not recieve those they could still gain bp with kills and stuff.

 

b)Siege items.

i CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH BUT I HATE THOSE ITEMS. WOE SHOULD BE ABOUT PLAYER VS PLAYER, NOT SIEGE ITEMS THAT CAN OVERWHELM WHATEVER STRATEGY OR BUILD A PLAYER CAN THINK. SIEGE ITEMS MAKE CHARACTER BUILDS, GEAR SET UPS, ETC OBSOLETE AND WITHOUT PURPOSE. WHY BOTHER MAKING A WIZARD OR ANY TYPE OR CHARACTER WITH AOE IF YOU CAN JUST GRAB A CATAPULT OR A CANNON AND DO THE SAME AND DO IT BETTER. SEIGE ITEMS HAVE NO PLACE IN WOE AND THEY SHOULD BE REMOVED. WOE SHOULD FOCUS ON STRATEGY AND HOW TO USE CHARACTER BUILDS EFFECTIVELY IN PVP.

LOWERING DAMAGE OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF NERF IS IRRELEVANT, SEIGE ITEMS HAVE NO PLACE IN WOE, THEY ARE NOT PART OF A CHARACTERS BUILD OR THEIR GEAR SET UP OR ANY OTHER CHARACTER STAT OR SKILL AND THEREFORE THEY WILL RUIN THE GAME.

 

c)Gate HP

I haven't been able to check other aspects of WoE due to the imbalance of it as of now. Whether this castle feature should have less hp I wouldn't know I haven't had the opportunity to check it myself. Developers should have a way to test their own ideas. Why would they throw something they haven't tested in the game's system? If the gave has 1 billion hp and characters only damage the gate for 1hp per hit then why would the gate have so much hp and damage mitigation?

 

d)Players being killed at the entrance

This is the consecuence of the assinine idea of releasing only 1 WoE map. If there were more maps people would try to get different castles and there they wouldn't be all gathered at the gates to kill people. Also this is a consecuence of gaining blood points. How else would you get a good amount of blood points during woe? By killing the most possible players in whatever set amount of time therefore the entrances are an excellent idea to do it. Again, awesome thinking on the developer's team for such a great idea. Cuddoes.

Way to fix this? RELEASE MORE MAPS!!!!! REMOVE BLOOD POINTS FROM WOE!!!!!!!!!! No excuses in this point. YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN.

 

e)Tax System

Again another feature i haven't been able to experience myself. I don't have any suggestions regarding this.

 

f)WoE Dailies

Another example of the great minds behind the developing team. So WoE is not only about defending or attacking a castle, it's also about getting blood points, but is also about strategy using siege items, aswell as pvp and other bunch of ridiculous ideas and on top of that it's also about WoE dailies. GREAT!!!! You spread the focus of WoE TOO MUCH, Focus WoE on a couple of few ideas and the rest make them their own activity like Coliseum. Colo is a separate thing from WoE and it's a great idea on it's own.

 

With this post I do not intend to make fun of the devs or any of the gms. However, I do like to provide with acid criticism since you haven't been doing your jobs, you have been slacking and that is unacceptable and unforgivable. Own this mess you have created and start working on how to fix it, you are getting paid for doing your jobs AND WE PAY for a good product and a good service, anything less is unacceptable.

 

 

[Arishis]

Hey everyone, 

 

We have gathered all the thoughts, concerns, and suggestions you have posted and put them all in one neat document to be presented to the devs. We figured since you guys helped us put it together, we will share the outline with you. Remember that this is a shortened version. The longer version is exactly that, much longer.

 

Also note that these are not patch notes, which means they are not actual fixes or changes to the game. These are only the suggestions and changes that have been compiled from the community so far. 

 

War of Emperium Changes

 

1.Blood Points

a. Right now, blood points lost is significantly high since it is by a percentage.

i. Solution is to make the BP loss a fixed number, perhaps to 500/500 BP earned/lost. Players with less than 500 don't give or take any BP until they earn at least 500 BP. 

 

2.Siege Items

a.  Currently, players can buy a lot of siege items at a time of all types, excluding WoE Supplies that have a 10 item limit. This has caused players to layer the ground with all types of siege items, making the WoE map very difficult. There are a couple of suggested fixes for this.

i.  Apply a cooldown for siege items, including Mercenary Kafra.

ii. Another option would be to apply an item limit to the siege items that can be carried in bags.

iii. Players are reporting that If they are killed by siege items, that they are losing Blood Points. Players who use siege items to kill another player are not rewarded with any Blood Points. Siege items should not give or take Blood Points to players if they are used, since it is significantly easier to kill players with siege items than using normal class skills.

iv. Applying a casting time to the Mercenary Kafra can make better balance the extra spawning points.

v. Barricades require one WoE Supplies to create. More Supplies should be needed to create each.

vi. Ghost Palanquin is hiding all siege items, including barricades. The only time a siege item shows up that is under the effect of Ghost Palanquin is when they fire. Having siege items show up when fired while under the effect of Ghost Palanquin is fine, but barricades should always be visible.

vii. Catapults cannot attack players who are within a certain range of the Catapult. This should be applied to all siege items that are stationary.

viii. An extra idea: If a siege weapon does not have a player inside of it, the HP of the item should slowly deteriorate until the siege weapon is destroyed over time. When a player goes into the siege weapon and uses it, it should stop the “Siege Bleed” effect. This will give a timer to the siege weapons, and will force players to actively use them instead of just laying them out all over the map.

 

 

3.Gate HP

a. Gate HP should be less.

b. Increase the amount of HP the WoE Supplies can give to a gate from defenders to compensate for the Gate HP being lowered. This means that attackers will have to focus on killing defenders who are supplying the gate with HP first before attacking the Gate.

 

4.Players being killed at the entrance

a. One of the large complaints from the players is that they do not have a chance when they load into the zone because they are being killed by other players and siege weapons that are targeting the entrance area and killing them before they have a chance to move.

i. One solution would be to provide a timed buff that makes the players who enter into Base 1 or Base 2 will be invincible to all attacks. 

ii. Another solution would be to provide a zone at the entrance where it is difficult or impossible for players or siege items to attack. 

iii. We should remove the ability to spawn siege items on top of the entrance. This means that barricades cannot be placed over the NPC.

 

5.Tax System

a.  Currently, the tax guilds receive when they own WoE has a zeny limit of 100z before the Guild Leader has to remove the 100z from the Guild Manager and deposit it into their Guild Bank. The Guild Bank is only attainable at Guild Rank 20, and the zeny limit for Guild Bank is 200z. 

i.Tax Solution: Increase the zeny limits of both the Tax and Guild Banks. The WoE tax should not have a limit to the zeny that can be accumulated.

ii. Guild Bank Solution: Low level guilds don’t have access to the Guild Bank, and do not have an interest to participate in WoE if all they receive is the Occupation Buff. They want access to the zeny tax as well. Re-arranging Guild skills may help this.

 

 

6.WoE Dailies

a. The bosses for the WoE dailies that are required to complete need to respawn quicker. 

 

 

8.Additional Notes

a.  Currently, there are unofficial alliances. We don't want to take this away, but at the same time don't want this to skew WoE gameplay.

My coments and sugestions:

1. I think loss/gain equal is unfair, so u can change this make the bp loss half of the bo gain so  that wont be unfair for some classes and all party member receive blood points is unfair for the supporters they dont get bp when they have to make sure all of the members of his party are alive 

2.a . i like that but i think siege weapons can only damage other siege stuffs like the gate, the Barricades and all the other stuffs but player can destroy them and we have something like a true battlefront divided among artlilary and infantry

 

3. thats is good

 

4. I think the PZ is the best option so we can wait for all of our guild mates come in, well some guys in my guild have better internet conecction and Pc so sometimes they get in faster than others so when iall of our members are in we can reorganize and go to the battle

 

6. i like that too.

 

7. you dont have a 7 i will make one : More Woe Zone(maybe 5) so we can divide the guild on server on more zones , this will make the game  more competitive and less unfair for smaller guilds or guilds whit less members fullgeared. The lag on the War zones will be less too.

 

8. i think a oficial Alliance System will be better  and u cam make a way of the other guilds Know the alliances, maybe a enemy system when you declare a guild your enemy and that give bonus when you defaaul them o battlefield.

 

9. somthing like on Ro1 when your guild gate a castle u got a flag on the center of the city whit your Guild emblem this make the pride of our guild grown up 

 

10. Reduce the damage from the ranged and magic classes on WoE, cause is hard for a mele to win a 1x1 on a ranged classes o massive pvp  is be unfair for the mele cause are so many players and when he notice who is atacking him he will be half-dead (ps: a play whit a Ranger so is not mimimi from a mele calsse)

Edited by Arishis, 17 July 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Lucentos]

IMHO whole Bloody Point system in WoE should be revorked:

1) During WoE times there should be no loss and no gain in Blood Points aside from gaining Bloody Points from completing WoE Dailies.

2) Outside of WoE times players should lose Blood Points from deaths.

3) The way of Blood Point gain during outside of WoE times should be based on resource wars - e.g. let`s think that outside of WoE times in WoE map there are spawn of numerous Bloody Crystals and destroying it will grant to player/party/raid some respective points. These crystals are limited in amount and immune to damage if more than one hostile guildies nearby to them. This will ensure resource war.

[Crow]

Zanbee, do you think, that maybe you could share devs response to your list with us? It would be great to hear what direction do they intend to continue this project in.

[Kaltrun]

The cost for siege weapons are a bit overwhelming. How can a casual player enjoy WoE, when they cost more than they can farm zeny in a day? Why did you have to use zeny? Why not make it BP?

Edited by Kaltrun, 19 July 2013 - 03:06 AM.

[ambulans]

One of the bigger issues with WOE is that smaller guilds simply quit because they know they'll just be constantly killed without a chance to participate in any meaningful way.

 

A couple of suggestions:

1. Attacking guilds are forced to be allies before they reach Door 1. Beyond Door 1 they can attack each other

2. Guilds that don't take the castle still gets some type of reward for helping break doors or at least participating in WOE

3. Make the map centripetal: have the castle in the middle with multiple paths towards the center each with their own spawn points.

Edited by ambulans, 21 July 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[iyoter]

My biggest issue in WoE is the low fps. It's like Payon map or Verta Delta map. It has so many trees and grass.

[Chizzmaks]

we shouldn't  be  loosing  blood points in woe it discourages other guilds/players to participate especially if you have to compete with people who have better gears, cards, and etc....    

[elvenne]

I think the best idea would be remove BOTH the BP loss and AND gain.

 

Want to pvp outside colo and show everyone how strong your VS is? You are welcome, but just for fun.

 

WoE should have other benefits instead of BP farm (there is colo for doing it). And WoE should be about winning castles and getting good things from them.

 

Until bp loss is removed, few people would bother with WoE. Why remove the bp gain too? To eliminate the possibility of farming one another for bp.

[Lucentos]

I think the best idea would be remove BOTH the BP loss and AND gain.

 

Want to pvp outside colo and show everyone how strong your VS is? You are welcome, but just for fun.

 

WoE should have other benefits instead of BP farm (there is colo for doing it). And WoE should be about winning castles and getting good things from them.

 

Until bp loss is removed, few people would bother with WoE. Why remove the bp gain too? To eliminate the possibility of farming one another for bp.

IMHO BP farming should be done throught killing monsters on the WoE fields and players should fight for right to kill these.

[SoraOfKHK]

IMHO BP farming should be done throught killing monsters on the WoE fields and players should fight for right to kill these.

 

Would probably be better off to just do something like this in a PVP arena, since BP gain on monsters is just easier than on players. Due to this, people won't really have an incentive to kill each other. If WoE is made to only gain BP from monsters, it'll be just a mirror of Colo, only people will be KSing only monsters.

A PVP arena, on the other hand, with BP loss/gain, that is what WoE is now, with monsters, and players, would make more sense. Like, 50-100 players max per arena or something, no level scaling for players like Colo, but monsters will be level 50 (or scaled to 50).

 

That would give BPs in a PVP environment, as well as remove any need for BPs in WoE at all, because as it stands right now, a lot of people aren't going to WoE due to how the structure of it is. Just basically make the arena into what WoE is now as far as loss/gain goes. I wouldn't mind an arena with BP loss/gain, though. That would actually be PVP other than Colo, rather than what WoE is, which is basically Person Versus Environment (siege weapons, people, and monsters).

 

WoE should just be for the fun of it, but of course, people are going to play to say they're better than others, since this is a game, and that's what PVP is in (most) games. The rewards should be items, or gear, or something, like it was in RO1. Giving the BP shouldn't be an incentive to do WoE. Trying to win was enough incentive in RO1. I'd be happy if they just made it more like RO1 WoE SE, where you actually have to depend on Guild Versus Guild more than just depending on Person Versus Person or Party Versus Party. The thing is, this game will never be like RO1 WoE, because the only real key players to take out are Priests, and even taking them out (if you can), there are still backup healers.

 

If there's no way around the way WoE is currently, at all, then make the BP GAINED 3 times what is lost, because otherwise, it just feels like Colo would be more worth it, even at only 3 times a day, since you gain twice what you lose (if you die) on player kills (unless that's been changed), you already get a set amount of BPs per round, and you don't actually lose what you already have, like you do in WoE.

[UnknownBeing]

The devs need to switch back to RO1's WoE system or at least make it so it's guild vs guild pvp. Remove siege weapons completely.

[SoraOfKHK]

The devs need to switch back to RO1's WoE system or at least make it so it's guild vs guild pvp. Remove siege weapons completely.

 

WOE SE in RO2 is what I'd love to see, but I doubt it would be as effective. In RO1, your key targets to take out were Professors, Creators, Priests, and Gypsies/Clowns. This was because of Dispell, Buffs, and Acid Demonstration. After those targets were Offensive LP Professors, Offensive High Wizards, and Full-Support (Ganbantein) High Wizards. Of course, you're trying to take all of these out simultateously in GVG, the fact is, there aren't really any key classes in RO2. It's like this game was set up to only be one-on-one PVP, or at most, Party Versus Party. Guild Versus Guild just doesn't seem like a realistic concept, considering how RO2 is set up. With the limited skills we actually have in comparison to RO1, we really couldn't support each other (with exception of the support classes). We'd mostly be taking on individuals, either on our own, or ganging up on them (much like Colo). At least in RO1, there were support defensive (Paladin, for example), support offensive (Champion, offensive LP Professor), and support-support (buffers/healers) classes.

 

It just sucks that on top of the linear game-play, PVP ends in feeling like it's intended for one-on-one PVP...

[Gerrr]

WOE SE in RO2 is what I'd love to see, but I doubt it would be as effective. In RO1, your key targets to take out were Professors, Creators, Priests, and Gypsies/Clowns. This was because of Dispell, Buffs, and Acid Demonstration. After those targets were Offensive LP Professors, Offensive High Wizards, and Full-Support (Ganbantein) High Wizards. Of course, you're trying to take all of these out simultateously in GVG, the fact is, there aren't really any key classes in RO2. It's like this game was set up to only be one-on-one PVP, or at most, Party Versus Party. Guild Versus Guild just doesn't seem like a realistic concept, considering how RO2 is set up. With the limited skills we actually have in comparison to RO1, we really couldn't support each other (with exception of the support classes). We'd mostly be taking on individuals, either on our own, or ganging up on them (much like Colo). At least in RO1, there were support defensive (Paladin, for example), support offensive (Champion, offensive LP Professor), and support-support (buffers/healers) classes.

 

It just sucks that on top of the linear game-play, PVP ends in feeling like it's intended for one-on-one PVP...

 

This is how I feel as well. Basically every class does either damage, healing or tanking, and the only status effects right now are slow, stun, freeze/root and DoTs. It's a shame because the class diversity in RO1 was what I loved most about the game.

[synesthetic]

I don't do PVP/WoE, but I like the pertinent feedback that's been given in Lyrinn's unfortunately-derailed thread.  So if this thread is still being paid attention to, I'd like to give those earnest suggestions more attention.

 

 

Highlights:

 - Remove BP loss from the map.

 - Remove or change the daily quests.

 - Make content related to the WoE map use Guild Medals instead of BP.

 

The problems these suggestions are trying to address are interconnected, however, so I don't think all of them should be done simultaneously.  At the core of it all though, I believe the biggest problem is in how there's PVE content on a PVP map.  The second-biggest problem comes from the 2nd-tier PVP set, which as far as we know is on par with the next raid dungeon's (Abaddon of Despair's) hard-mode gear--this is essentially another conflict between PVE and PVP interest.

I'll try to go over each highlight in relation to these.

 

 

Remove BP loss.

 

As far as any of us know still, 2nd-tier PVP gear (hereafter referred to as PVP-2 gear) will cost BP.  And since it's on par with AoD-H gear, both PVE- and PVP-interested players want it.  It's a mirror of what happened with PVP-1/Colosseum gear: to get extremely good gear (ahead of its time, even), the path with less resistance is the PVP route.  Even I was compelled to do Colosseum long enough to get my weapon and accessories even though I hate PVP, because the difference in gear strength is THAT good, and usable towards PVE content.

 

This game isn't marketed as being PVP-centric and doesn't play as one, so I think I can safely guess that most people are saving up their hard-earned BP to be used for gear that they want to use in PVE.  I haven't met anyone who thinks Colosseum is -good-, everyone I know does it purely as a daily chore.  And we already knew ahead of time that raids were excessively punishing, so clearly, PVP gear is easier to get because you don't need to p2w or wait for the devs to fix bosses.

 

So with all of that in mind, -getting- BP is already an unpleasant process for most of us, but we do it anyway because the game compels us to.

-Losing- BP so easily when you're going onto a PVP map to do PVE daily quests is even more frustrating.

(Why is there even a need to remove BP from anyone anyway?  I can't see any justification for it.  It's not like zeny where we'd need a goldsink.  It's not even tradable or exploitable; it's purely a grind.)

 

 

Remove/change daily quests.

 

If there weren't PVE quests to do on a PVP map, I'm sure many people wouldn't even bother going on the map.

 

On one hand, you have dailies to get Guild Medals to buy fancier-looking guild robes for the WoE map.  Which, in concept, is fine for guilds to do collectively if they're actually interested in WoE.  It's a pretty mediocre incentive to do those quests, but at least it's relevant to only WoE and not PVE outside of the map.

 

But then you have a daily like getting grass for Dusky so you can get 10-min movement speed pots.  I don't care beans about WoE, but I want those pots because they'd be real nice to use in raids and maybe dungeons.  And I bet many bitter individuals who got ganked on the map were only after those pots, too.

 

Aside from that, there's interest from some people to see PVP-related rewards for doing specifically PVP things.  Like titles with bonus stats for getting player kills.  Or maybe something costume-related.

 

 

Use Guild Medals instead of BP.

 

Gain WoE-map currency for WoE-map activities.  Makes sense to me.  GVG as opposed to PVP.

 

The original suggestion was also to make the PVP-2 set cost Guild Medals instead of BP.  I have mixed feelings for that.

It would definitely increase incentive to do WoE.  And not losing BP would encourage more people to just come in and quest/explore.

But it also excludes a lot of players, since not everyone is in a guild, much less a guild that can be competitive in WoE.

 

------------------------------------------------

 

All in all, whether any of these suggestions can fly or not, if at all possible the devs and GMs need to try and keep PVE and PVP content separate.

There's so much misdirected aggression and drama stemming from the devs' carelessness in not keeping the two areas of gameplay apart.

[SoraOfKHK]

All in all, whether any of these suggestions can fly or not, if at all possible the devs and GMs need to try and keep PVE and PVP content separate.

There's so much misdirected aggression and drama stemming from the devs' carelessness in not keeping the two areas of gameplay apart.

 

It's always made little sense to me about how horrible the Developers seem to be when it comes to separating content, and it's not just PVP and PVE content.

WoE is GVG, and thus, should be separate from PVP, AND PVE, as well.

It should have its own currency gained from it.

 

If the issue of the same currency is due to the fact that you want people to do WoE AND Colo, well, you're failing at that. People do not want to gain BP in Colo to just go lose it in WoE. It would make more sense to have a separate currency.

 

So, that adds the issue to buying things with the new currency? Well, make it similar to how BP works. Call it WoE Tokens or something. Make PVP gear and items purchasable with either BP or WoE Tokens so people don't feel like they have to do Colo, or feel like they have to do WoE, or feel like they have to do BOTH. A new currency would give people the option to do whichever they choose, rather than feeling forced.

 

Doing that could also keep the loss/gain method, because people could still keep their BPs. The problem is the loss of BPs. I doubt people would have much of a problem with losing a new currency, as long as they don't lose BPs.

Now, I've not even stepped on the WoE map, but I'm going to assume that you gain BP from daily quests. That gain won't matter if you lose more BPs trying to do the daily quests than you gain from it.

 

 

If the above can't be done, then at least come up with a solution to allow people doing WoE daily quests, or just those wanting to explore, to be able to do so without fearing death AND BP loss, as well.

The solution I thought of was a full-strip of armor, costumes, and accessories (yes, you'll be naked), and nullify all buffs upon entry to the WoE map, including VIPs and Khara Title buffs (and other similar buffs). Now, before you call me crazy, please finish reading what I have to say...

After this is done, you will have a total immunity to any incoming attack, but at the same time; you cannot attack anything around you. Once you put on your weapon and armor, you will still be immune for 30 seconds, and unable to attack, but the VIP and Khara Title buffs (and any other buff you had previously) will be re-enabled.

This debuff (it'll nullify buffs, not remove them) should allow free exploration of the map, and allow daily quests to be done for the most part.

If there are some that involve killing monsters, then give us weapons/armor for those quests (that go away at the end of the quest for the sake of inventory space) that still provide total PVP immunity, and disallow attacking players, or any monster other than those for daily quests, if there are any.

Granted, I'm suggesting this without even having participated in WoE, myself, so I'm actually unsure of what the daily quests are... But hey, maybe I could find out if I wasn't worried about getting mobbed to death everyone and everything inside...

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 30 July 2013 - 04:43 PM.