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Training Grounds Improvement program


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#76 Oda

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:44 AM

I think it might be instructive to include some simple PVE/PVP build recommendations for new players. Sort of like having the NPC tell you "well you can build your character whichever way you want but if you're just getting started you might consider..."

 

All right, flamer blocked.  No time for pointless inflammatory comments here.

 

That is true, but the hope is to bring the WoE scene back, or at least I presume it is.  Assuming that we could do that, getting players to farm supplies by doing BG would not only make real players get their own supplies, but would also inadvertently help them become better pvpers and players in general.  Perhaps if this was followed through, we  could lower the level limit of BG from 80 to 60 or something of the sort. 

 

Also it would have to be finagled so that "WoE bombs" would be obtainable only through BG and "PvM bombs" could still be made properly.  This might be difficult.  

The issue we have is that items consumed for skills can't be changed. A skill is hard coded to only recognize a specific existing item to eat up to make the skill work unfortunately. 


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#77 Melkor

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:57 PM

Sigh.  I don't know if there is anything more that can be done then other than hire on additional administrative staff, Oda.  I know you guys have your hands full and I really am sympathetic, but there is nothing that discourages new players more than bots, and until they can be readily and quickly dealt with, the server will continue to dwindle until it can't be sustained. :/


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#78 HansLowell

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:37 AM

I think also doing training ground should be a choice, it would be nice to start directly in prontera as a start and maybe have a place designed as the beginner place.

Going through walk and talking npc is annoying.

 


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#79 AngeIic

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 04:24 AM

The area that players are teleported to after the training grounds, should be directly to the job changer. Instead of some random place in the town, where you have to find the job changer yourself.

But perhaps that won't be a problem, if the navigation system is working properly by the release of this.


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#80 1756492860

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:51 AM

I think also doing training ground should be a choice,

it is. on classic, at least.


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#81 Melkor

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 05:11 PM

Yes, to skip the training grounds, after typing in your name to the first NPC, you simply select "let me start Ragnarok Online" instead of applying for training.


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#82 Oda

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:02 AM

Stage 1 of our Training Grounds improvement program has been implemented this morning. We have added a NPC to the training grounds that introduces the quest system. This is part of a long process in revamping the early game for Classic, which we are excited to be starting on. 


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#83 TheRabbi

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:44 AM

This I recently started playing again and would like to offer the perspective of someone who used to be very active 6 years ago but just recently picked it back up. I made two characters, a mage and a swordie and I'll detail the individual experiences below but the single biggest challenge was gear.

 

The first character I made was a mage because I knew I could vertical fwall (I was rusty and it was funny... :P) and level practically naked, which is exactly what I've been doing. I actually made the conscious decision to stay in the training grounds until about level 20 or so because I knew I could use the novice gear and have monster spawns right there. After that I went and killed Muka for a while the really, really old school way (bolt, run off screen, repeat) until I had fwall/fbolt 10. Then I vendored everything I had looted to give me just enough to get to MiGaos (literally like 300z to spare, but the new Pront bwing is a god send!). Once at Gao's the leveling went incredibly fast and my mage is now 52 after a couple of hours (plus leeching a buddy's aco) but he's still in a cotton shirt and rod...

 

Football was starting and vertical fwall takes too much attention so I made a swordie to level while I watched the games. That experience was drastically different and much, much more frustrating. Equipped with my novice falchion and adventure suit I went out into the world. I started at spores and leveled decently quickly but also went through my novie pots at a decent clip. I then switched over to rockers and did pretty good but again went through novie pots fairly quickly. Now my swordie is out of novie pots and I should probably be moving on to popos or muka or something, but instead I'm stuck at rockers because they're the only thing I can reasonably kill without having to sit and regen HP between each kill. Consequently, I got HP regen as my first skill since I was doing a lot of sitting. Since I was leveling him while watching football sitting frequently wasn't really a bother, but if I play him more actively I could see getting incredibly frustrated by it.

 

This thread about about the lowbie instances mentions the gear issue. The gear issue is felt at low levels (with gear I'd take 50ish in damage whereas now I'm taking 200s on my swordie) but it's mainly a giant monster looming in the distance for me, once I hit 70-80s how am I going to level anywhere on any of my characters? For now I'm choosing to ignore it until I do hit those levels, but it's clearly going to be a major issue. A concern I have is that once I hit those levels, I may not be able to really do anything after that and it'll drastically reduce my interest in the game (naturally). If there was a way to have scaled down basic gear that would be immensely helpful, reassuring and motivating. I don't think instances alone is the answer, I recognize that a big part of RO is about the grind, but if these instances were a "challenge" type of thing where you could complete a quest and get scaled down gear for two weeks that would be nice. I would have a stop gap until I have real gear and my incentive to get the actual gear is there (not having to repeat the quest and not having scaled down gear).

 

Just giving my thoughts as someone who is familiar with the game but is starting anew. Cheers and good luck!


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#84 TwilightsCall

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

Believe it or not, this scaled-down gear actually exists!  It's not free, and doesn't really drop in newbie-friendly places, but its definitely something you can save up for and buy.

 

Need a mocking garment? Try a Falcon Muffler instead.  Half the price of a whisper card, and you don't need to slot it into anything!

Are you more of a raydric type?  Grab a vali's manteau.  Currently averaging at 15m, which is a whopping 16% of the price of a raydric card.

Shoes? Vidar's boots give you 9% HP and SP for 6~8mil, compared to the 100m+ you'd pay for superiors.

 

There is lots of really solid gear out there, and all it takes is a little time making money to afford even a decent setup.  If something needs to be done to push budget gear out for new players, I would recommend making the ones we already have more accessible (not necessarily more common) rather than trying to invent the wheel.  Because frankly, no one kills Alicels or Deathwords anyways, let alone new players.  The drop rates are surprisingly high on those items, but the problem is that they aren't monsters you can kill without gear.  If they were moved to weaker monsters, it would give newer players a much better chance at edging their way into the game.


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#85 TheRabbi

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:40 AM

Believe it or not, this scaled-down gear actually exists!  It's not free, and doesn't really drop in newbie-friendly places, but its definitely something you can save up for and buy.

 

Need a mocking garment? Try a Falcon Muffler instead.  Half the price of a whisper card, and you don't need to slot it into anything!

Are you more of a raydric type?  Grab a vali's manteau.  Currently averaging at 15m, which is a whopping 16% of the price of a raydric card.

Shoes? Vidar's boots give you 9% HP and SP for 6~8mil, compared to the 100m+ you'd pay for superiors.

 

There is lots of really solid gear out there, and all it takes is a little time making money to afford even a decent setup.  If something needs to be done to push budget gear out for new players, I would recommend making the ones we already have more accessible (not necessarily more common) rather than trying to invent the wheel.  Because frankly, no one kills Alicels or Deathwords anyways, let alone new players.  The drop rates are surprisingly high on those items, but the problem is that they aren't monsters you can kill without gear.  If they were moved to weaker monsters, it would give newer players a much better chance at edging their way into the game.

 

I completely forgot about that gear as I never needed it the first time around, so I appreciate that! I also think moving the drops might help, I have no problem farming for the gear as long as it was somewhere I could go. I think you have to be careful not to make it too easy and flood the market though.


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#86 Jaffer

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:18 AM

The only issue with Vali's Mant and Vidars is the location the monsters are in.  Having to do the Kiel quest isn't fun.  Going to a decent floor in Thana (5, I think?) to farm Deathwords isn't easy.


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#87 TwilightsCall

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:31 AM

Yeah, if you are in a position where you need that kind of gear, finishing the Kiel Quest is going to be virtually impossible, and Thanatos 3 (where the best deathword spawn is) is going to be similarly difficult.  I would probably move them to something like...Removers drop Vali's Manteau, Mermen drop Vidar's Boots.  Maybe Dragon Tail drops falcon muffler.  I feel like fricco's shoes are a niche enough use that they could probably stay on Ancient Mimics.

 

i'd leave the other set gear where it is, though, ie Magni's Cap, Stone Buckler, Odins, Morrigane set, Morph set, goibne's set, etc.  It's important to let those pieces of gear maintain what little value they have imo, and they aren't really necessary for newbie gear (aside from Goibne's set, I haven't really heard of people using Morrigane/Morph set as budget gear before >.>)


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#88 ClickyHpen

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:21 PM

i'm not entirely sure whether this should be gotten via training grounds or some sort of informational quest or something, so i'm gonna put it here.

 

what if, for the first character on each new account, you got a voucher for a free set of basic equipment? i'm talking BASIC, basic, like a set of npc armor (unslotted) and the best weapon you could buy. maybe have a menu to choose the weapon, or have a separate voucher, because i imagine some swordsmen would prefer a 2hander or some rogues would like a bow or whatever. at worst, for experienced players, you get some free warp money every new account you make (~80k or so? OH NO). bots are getting zeny anyways, so who cares there ? new people get something that's better than nothing !

 

like i said, dunno if this is good off the bat or maybe make it a reward for listening to some npcs talk about important game mechanics or something or other. this thread looks like it gets more attention, so here it is.


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#89 Oda

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:15 AM

Believe it or not, this scaled-down gear actually exists!  It's not free, and doesn't really drop in newbie-friendly places, but its definitely something you can save up for and buy.

 

Need a mocking garment? Try a Falcon Muffler instead.  Half the price of a whisper card, and you don't need to slot it into anything!

Are you more of a raydric type?  Grab a vali's manteau.  Currently averaging at 15m, which is a whopping 16% of the price of a raydric card.

Shoes? Vidar's boots give you 9% HP and SP for 6~8mil, compared to the 100m+ you'd pay for superiors.

 

There is lots of really solid gear out there, and all it takes is a little time making money to afford even a decent setup.  If something needs to be done to push budget gear out for new players, I would recommend making the ones we already have more accessible (not necessarily more common) rather than trying to invent the wheel.  Because frankly, no one kills Alicels or Deathwords anyways, let alone new players.  The drop rates are surprisingly high on those items, but the problem is that they aren't monsters you can kill without gear.  If they were moved to weaker monsters, it would give newer players a much better chance at edging their way into the game.

What if there was a kill quest for these gears on the weaker monsters, perhaps tied to a dungeon or specific map area that rewarded the player with one of these gears?


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#90 Jaffer

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:41 AM

What if there was a kill quest for these gears on the weaker monsters, perhaps tied to a dungeon or specific map area that rewarded the player with one of these gears?

 

I think giving players questions to reward account bound versions of the Vali's Mant and the like would be pretty nice.  Maybe at the level 60-70 area for them.


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#91 Xellie

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:09 AM

Yeah, account bound versions that are accessible at lower levels (which is when you need them) sounds like a really go way to go.


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#92 Oda

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:12 AM

What do you guys think would be a reasonable period of time/monsters that players would need to defeat to obtain these gears?


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#93 Xellie

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:24 AM

Umm that's tough because those aren't trivial gears... at least an hour's worth of hunting


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#94 Viri

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:36 AM

An hour is so much better than 293840234 hours of card hunting to no avail potentially. Having rewards that you get for X amount of work at 100% is good.


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#95 Oda

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:37 AM

That's why the overlook worked. 


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#96 Viri

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

I agree everything about overlook was good. It was probably the only PVM related thing I used on every single new character I made.


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#97 TwilightsCall

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:16 AM

Account bound versions of this gear would be great.

 

An appropriate monster for Vali's Manteaus would be Removers I think.  They are not bad monsters to hunt exp wise as long as you're nontrans, and with a small party (2~3) they should be manageable at Level 60~70, where you really start needing the extra reduction that an immune provides.  Plus, being undead, even FS priests can solo them if they are desperate, giving them a chance to gear up for the harder levelling that's coming up.

 

Falcon Mufflers are a bit tougher, since characters that need flee will probably need it a lot sooner than characters that need neutral reduction.  That being said, the pantie/undershirt combo already exists, so it isn't absolutely necessary to put a lot of weight on this item.  Making it come from somewhere like...Rachel Sanctuary 1 (Vanberks and Isillas), where you have low dex monsters, so flee characters will be more prone to level there. Again, the dungeon is manageable at 60~70 with a duo (I used to solo there on a 6x Assassin as well), so it's just around that time where a players gear really determines where they can level.

 

Vidars Boots are more of a luxury gear than the other two.  While flee characters will decide their levelling spots based on their flee, and others will have a huge increase in survivability with neutral reduction, the HP/SP of Vidar's Boots does little other than reduce downtime.  That means you can afford to put them on a bit higher level monsters than otherwise.  Wooden Golems might be a good spot for that, the exp isn't fantastic but it makes them go off the beaten path a bit to get the proper gear.  Alternatively, something like Alarms or Mermen could also be reasonable spots.

 

 

If I had complete and total freedom, I would probably make something like Overlook again, where the farther down in the dungeon you go, the more gear you get.  So on the first level of the dungeon, you'd get a turn in quest that gives you a choice of Vali's Manteau or Falcon Muffler (bound).  The second level, maybe 5~10 levels higher than the first, gives you a choice of Green Shoes or Blue Shoes (10% MHP/HPregen for green, 10%MSP/SPregen for blue).  The third level, another 5~10 levels higher, would give you the choice of a bound shield (10% reduc from all races) or a bound armor (+5 ATK, +2% MATK).  The last level would reward you with a choice of any card from the dungeon, like Overlook does.  I'd probably start the dungeon aimed at about level 45~50, and try and end it at about 75~80.

 

IMHO


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#98 etansit

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 06:22 PM

N...N...N....NECROoooooo.....


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#99 Xandyzor

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 09:12 AM

Ress lvl 99999999999999999999999999999999999


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#100 Naida

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:40 AM

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, as far as guild information being included I think people should also learn how to make and break a guild without needing to ask other players or swim through forums/google to figure it out.

 

edit:spelling


Edited by Naida, 22 April 2015 - 10:41 AM.

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