31 replies to this topic

[Tamago]

That the GM's put safe to +10 certs in the next boxes coming up. Also... that that also reminds me. I was wondering if you were ever to resurrect the elven sunnies that are hardly around anymore. That makes for an appropriate item to see on this server. Another thing is.. about the Kaf miles program. Would you guys be able to do another event that holds the kafra points that everybody accumulates on each of their characters.. and if so would you be able to include a more recent item exchange for example depending on the char base level almost like how you have 1-100, 101-130, 130-150. If theres anything else that someone would like to add to this please list. 

 

Please no offtopic posts or flames.

 

 

Thanks 

[Facekiller]

imma say no to +10 certs... gears dont break enough as is... people dont need to buy new gears anymore thanks to the high amount of certs and upgrading events... there are entirely too many people running around with gears that should be hard to achieve...

[ilovemilk]

Please no more safe certs.

[DrAzzy]

No more safe certs!

 

 

They should make a new item instead, and further restrict +10 certs...

Call the new item "Cursed elunium" (or oridicon). Give it a higher success rate than normal upgrading for +9->10 (and only +9->10) - but failures break. The rarity should be on the same level as safe 10's, give or take. I think a 20-35% success rate would be appropriate (I think you'd need to post the exact rate, at least as a multiplier of base rate to get player acceptance). Then cheaper gear (which would be worth a small enough amount of zeny at +9 that it would be cheaper to lose than bring back to +9 a few times or buy several certs for) would get upped with cursed, and some would get broken in the process, helping to reduce the oversupply of those gears. 

 

I like my idea better than more certs, and more oversupply because drop rates balanced for items breaking during upgrades aren't being broken ever. 

[KamiKali]

^ I like Azzy's idea too. Although knowing me, I'll break all my gears with that.

 

The OP's idea on the other hand, no thanks.

Edited by KamiKali, 09 August 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[CharAznable]

No more +10 certs. and +1 to Azzy's idea. 

[Havenn]

I like Azzy

 

 

oh, and his idea too

[kingjoe547]

I think its better for me to refine my items before they see azzy's suggestions XDDD and yea, there's too many gears especially when et has unlimited resets

[Alaska]

No more certs, pls ty.

I wouldn't mind something similar to Azzy's idea, though. Would be good for the market to have some of the surplus gears break.

[WarlockFier]

As much as I think there's an overflow of safe to 7 certs, a lot of the kafra box items are not good if not upgraded to +10 or over. >.<; And for kafra shop gears to break it's kind of more of a pay2win as people have to spend more to get those gears. Not too sure if it's a good thing but I hope people know what they are asking for.. :x

 

As far as safe to 10 certs, they are overpriced being sold at the moment and more often than not it can cost some people 500m - 700m, or if extremely lucky maybe just 1 attempt to +10. It's all about luck I guess =o There are some gears that I prefer not to even loose due to enchantments, I mean you can even have some of them break in the process already.

 

I believe there is a need to reduce the safe to 7 certs, safe to 10 cert should come in extremely rarely. And so is Enrich Hammer. I don't mind him popping in just for a day even rather than 2 to 3 weeks streak. Though I am pretty sure GMs are putting Enrich for a reason as they need $$$ =x those 50 boxes sells well.

[Sapphic]

I don't wear my elven sunnies anymore because one part of it is broken. I forget which, either the ears or the glasses. I sent in a ticket about it, but I don't really expect much.

[Exelar]

Why cant Azzy become a GM with all his good Ideas like seriously lol...Good Idea...it would make it more entertaining to see it as random ori and elu you get from drops be like that. Then that would be like Russian Roulette  

[Kimea]

I am a fan of Azzy's so yeah. Yeppie ^_^

[Yomihime]

Why cant Azzy become a GM with all his good Ideas like seriously lol...Good Idea...it would make it more entertaining to see it as random ori and elu you get from drops be like that. Then that would be like Russian Roulette  

I am a fan of Azzy's so yeah. Yeppie ^_^

 

Azzy fans unite XD

[Tamago]

Too many Azzy followers... anyways,

 

There is a valid point asides there having too much +7 gear certs in circulation. There was a time that we did have +10 certs in circulation and that was about 2-3 some years ago. THe fact that it IS a rarity I mean with all the other things that are implemented in the kaf and fire sale boxes I don't see why there shouldn't be any 10 certs in some of the packaged boxes anyways. We are entitled to spend whatever we spend our wpe just so long as it fits but overdoing it would mean too much of it being the same type requested items in sale boxes already. I know that it depends on the person's luck to upgrade but as far as I'm concerned I am one of those persons that did spend a high amount or if not high amount of zenny trying to get at least 1 item to 10 via +10 cert currently but all landed in failing. Its kind of a dissapointment to see that when you do burn about maybe near 100-130 mil per cert knowing that you may need 5 certs or more puts me and everybody that has been in the same predicament into a deficit. It does actually make people lean towards spending more money into buying kaf goods as it already is. That doesn't mean I don't want to support but in a way I don't want to spend maybe 'xxx' amount of USD and in turn get little or no results. Azzy may be right about not having no 10 certs or cursed elu.. but cursed elu is already = HD refining ores.. thus people tend to steer away from HD for a bit and mighty hammer. I also noticed the refine rate with the certs now is starting to fail a bit more. I want to know if the GM's implemented something on it.

 

Please no flames... no sidetracking posts stick with the topic

 

Thanks 

 

@Sapphic: Um.. isn't that gear both the ears and glasses combined mid-gear

 

 

Edited by Tamago, 10 August 2013 - 04:50 AM.

[WarlockFier]

I'm neutral on Azzy's idea. while there is a need to reduce the over supply of gears on the market, I also believe it's already expensive enough at the moment to upgrade many gears.

 

I'm also one of those people who have spent 900m+ trying to +10 some gears and have terrible luck at it. xD And 900m+ is like.. what? almost 100 dollars in cash, if it has to become more expensive than that to upgrade certain gears to +10, I would rather GM reduce the success rate of upgrades instead of breaking the gear that I might have already spent a lot on it, i.e BigXbow that has a chance at breaking for enchantment too, and the weapon itself cost 300m-400m? At least I get to keep the weapon and try again in the future, than start all over and probably just quit bothering with it. >.<

 

Needless to say, +10 above gears cost 800m - 1b or more on the market, and many veteran players are already hogging these gears. I believe when it becomes harder to upgrade gears to beyond +10, these gears will inflate in prices even more. 800m-1b maybe peanuts to some veteran players but for many average players, that's a huge chunk of wealth. It's going to set apart new players to catch up to veteran players even more too.

 

As far as over supply of gears goes, I think the infinite ET was one of the cause of it. I believe enchanting those gears are one of the great ways to reducing them, such as the Valk armors and Fire armors.

 

However, even with the increased amount of HBP on the game, the price for them doesn't seems to go down still. and when upgrading them becomes easier to break, I'm pretty sure the game becomes even more pay2win then and it's going to drive more players off. There is a limitation to how much you can try and make money off gamers before they become too frustrated with the it and stop bothering with it. I have witness game companies that become too greedy with monetizing and it has driven gamers away. And in the course of 2 months the company failed. Terribly. So I will be careful in suggesting things that become more pay2win. =X

 

IF GM does implement these, I think I will stick with my current main and not bother to obtain even more gears/ characters anymore. xD

 

If I am wrong of course feel free to correct me. D: Just my 2 cents!

Edited by WarlockFier, 10 August 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Edstyle]

Old players > New players

 

this thread sound like that... and just that

 

remove +7 safe= ebay +12 gears (unless this is temporarily)

 

well, im not against the Azzy Idea and sure would be good to put something like cursed enriched...

Thats means only noobs praying for gods lucky will do that, unless they remove HD hammer and HD enriched.

Cuz in this game Zeny > Real Money (<----- sounds like social suicidal in real life)

I mean how manys of you use Enriched(not the one that dont break gears) to upgrade a HBP to +7

Its not like 500kp is a couple of cents, no one would buy that and in the end game financial breaks(S>HBP +9 5B cheapest price on market)

 

Consequently newcomers ragequit in one year(useles in PVM/TI/WoE)

Edited by Edstyle, 10 August 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[WarlockFier]

Honestly, without needing to implement Azzy's idea, breaking gears while at upgrading attempts already exist. All they need to do is stop implementing the Mighty Hammer and Enrich Hammer, remove them, and remove the Kafra shop HD bradium and carnium, also Enrich box, the only way to upgrade is to rely on the ordinary elunium, oridecons, bradium, carniums you can get from monsters (honestly though, no one ever uses them because they degrade 3 levels or something). Except maybe instead of degrading, break them. That's probably easier for GM to make changes to. At the same time though, it may hurt their revenue. People will rather use zeny to buy gears from others, but it will be at 1b over everywhere.

 

I like to use Suhnmi to upgrade cheaper gears honestly, like WOE and Mora gears, but because of the crash of cert prices it's almost about the same price as using cert or Suhnmi to upgrade gears, more or less. >.<

[Facekiller]

ive personally only upgraded low quality items to +8 or so ever and that wasnt with any certs or special ores just regular elu/ori... im not a huge fan of upgrading in general (im not a gambler in any way shape or form) any gears i have over +5 or so were bought that way... often youll spend alot more trying to upgrade then you will just buying it already upgraded... and i have neither the cash nor the zeny to burn trying...

[CharAznable]

+10 and further wasn't meant for noob player with god of luck. It was supposed to be hard to get (Success rate). Thus spending 500m+ while trying to get +10 should be normal(there was time i spent 450m~700m to upgrade my glorious fist with HD elu. and that was like lucky me) You really should expecting to spend way more than 500m to upgrade anything beyond to +10 imo. And to be honest, If you're looking into anything beyond +10 gear to use, you aren't really noob player, or light playing the game. You do not need to play this game using all those +14 gears with benefits nor need anything beyond +4 tbh. WoE gears are cheap enough even with these inflated gears (if i'm not wrong, they cost around 3m? exceptn the weapons)so no hard feeling to upgrade them with just pure enriched on regular NPC or even with elunium. 

 

So mentioning about new comer isn't really worth mentioning while we're talking about top tier gears like +14 Vellum Claw, or +14 Xbow. That being said, I just like the idea of Azzy's simply because of gambling factor(you to have an option to choose +10 with HD elu/ori which will not break your gear, but just downgrading your upgrade). its still fifty fifty ratio even if it says 30% success rate or whatever it likes to do. Enchanting something like xbow, you really do have to be a veterant player to do it because it required to farm bio3~4. No one should guarantee such thing in easy way. I think people are getting accustomed to just get go with WPE spending and just want to be pay2 play. But if they remove +7 cert all together and +10 certs, and not even implanting Azzy's idea or what not, They will all complain now because its SOOOO hard to upgrade without them. 

 

Easy +9 is fine at this point, since most of gear coming in future, and those have been released recently are all better at +10 and so on. And since kro also have certs implanted, its not most likely for certs to leave the scene for a while. So, only way to regulate this overflowing +9 gear is limit the access to+10 by either put a chance to break the item, or just make 10 cert gone and make +10 only accessible with HD elu/ori. 

 

Edit: I see someone commenting success rate of using cert went downward, but 7 certs doesn't help success rate of +7 it just prevents you're gear to break using normal elu. success rate of cert is fine to me.

Edited by CharAznable, 10 August 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[WarlockFier]

I did acknowledge that trying to get a +10 gear is not something meant for every noob player to get, heck, even +9 for me then was hard as certs were 20+m or so. For players who can afford 400-900m, (some people spend more than that even) to get a +10, they aren't noob anymore in my opinion. 

 

I guess the better question is this, to compare it to the actual money you could spend on this game, how much are you willing to spend, if you can afford it, in money value wise, on a +12 gear in game? Where would you stop wanting to spend money on it when it becomes too expensive that players would rather not waste money and resources on it?

Would dramatically changing the upgrading rates impact players who just start out within the last 6 - 8 months? Or maybe past 2 years if they aren't daily basis players that maybe play on weekends or holidays due to school or life?

 

Bear in mind, most players on the forums are actually already veteran players and you rarely hear newbie players voicing out around here, I never visited the forum until I was 6 months into the game and had help catching up on most things. I knew I was extremely behind on gears and I was getting one shot everywhere in game, even in TIs, that it almost discouraged me to keep playing. >.< But I was really lucky I have had friends helping out and gradually improved overtime.

 

I'm not in disagreement in removing the safe certs, at the same time, I believe certain gears should be given a way to upgrade without being broken, especially if they are kafra items like HBP that works better when at +9, or gears that people have spent massive amount of zenies to get like Big X bow. Anything above 300m isn't really cheap and easy to obtain and given Big X bow can already be broken via enchanting, having it broken again from trying to upgrade it is just too much for some players to keep going through. I know I wouldn't bother with it at that point and would have just stop spending altogether and be happy with what I currently already have. Or just borrow gears from friends who stopped playing than making my own.

Edited by WarlockFier, 10 August 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Facekiller]

i understand the frustration of upgrading a kafra shop item like HBP (which essentially forces you to upgrade for them to be really useful)... adding these kind of "upgrade to x level to get x effects" gears to the cash shop is a cheap move the GMs to bring in more money... its getting that way with almost all the new gears coming from the cash shop... first they make money off the item then they sell you limited time boxes that help you upgrade (but dont make the success rate decent) so you spend even MORE money to get the item to a useful state... now the real question is: Did they create these items to sell more ores since upgrading in renewal isnt as important for def and atk? OR Did they nerf the def and atk of upgraded gears so they could sell more stuff?

[CharAznable]

I did acknowledge that trying to get a +10 gear is not something meant for every noob player to get, heck, even +9 for me then was hard as certs were 20+m or so. For players who can afford 400-900m, (some people spend more than that even) to get a +10, they aren't noob anymore in my opinion. 

 

I guess the better question is this, to compare it to the actual money you could spend on this game, how much are you willing to spend, if you can afford it, in money value wise, on a +12 gear in game? Where would you stop wanting to spend money on it when it becomes too expensive that players would rather not waste money and resources on it?

Would dramatically changing the upgrading rates impact players who just start out within the last 6 - 8 months? Or maybe past 2 years if they aren't daily basis players that maybe play on weekends or holidays due to school or life?

 

Bear in mind, most players on the forums are actually already veteran players and you rarely hear newbie players voicing out around here, I never visited the forum until I was 6 months into the game and had help catching up on most things. I knew I was extremely behind on gears and I was getting one shot everywhere in game, even in TIs, that it almost discouraged me to keep playing. >.< But I was really lucky I have had friends helping out and gradually improved overtime.

 

I'm not in disagreement in removing the safe certs, at the same time, I believe certain gears should be given a way to upgrade without being broken, especially if they are kafra items like HBP that works better when at +9, or gears that people have spent massive amount of zenies to get like Big X bow. Anything above 300m isn't really cheap and easy to obtain and given Big X bow can already be broken via enchanting, having it broken again from trying to upgrade it is just too much for some players to keep going through. I know I wouldn't bother with it at that point and would have just stop spending altogether and be happy with what I currently already have. Or just borrow gears from friends who stopped playing than making my own.

Like i said, Any of these gears(HBP/xBow/etc) aren't meant for someone who can't afford them nor definitely not for easy enchanting. So to some people who can buy those for enchanting/refining shouldn't be talked over and over when we talk about stuff like this. You agreed upon +10 isn't for new player so lets put that aside for now. 

 

I do think comparing anything with real money isn't really constructive. Why would you want to compare how much you would spend in real money when the game itself is Free to play? Its pay to win when you decide to do so. Until then, its up to you whether risk you're on luck with drops and make money without WPE. I personally supports this game so I purchase at least 30~60 usd worth of WPE per month(similar to buying packaging game) as donation. I used to play kRo server when it was pay to play as well. (20 usd per month i think back in 2003 i believe) But thats just me so i don't take that as granted becuase WPE and game balance is two different thing all together. But whenever things like 10 certs, or 7 certs occurs(including 3x bm, 2xbm and so on) it actually breaks the balance without any sort of regulation and forcing this game into pay to win even further.

 

These sort of things starts to happen when people starting to comparing things with real money and puts value to them with actual currency. Bare in mind Warp Portal Agreement actually states that anything in game that you own, warp portal have right to disband and user do not own its full right(unless you're mentioning real money trade which is prohibited) So in game items shouldn't have any real money value to it. 

 

All and all, we do agreed on stuff like cert is overflowing and needs some kind of regulation but it just ringed me a bell when so many people are mentioning real money value. 

Edited by CharAznable, 10 August 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[WarlockFier]

Oh no, I am not talking about real money trade, what I am trying to say is that when it cost people 100 dollars to try and +10 their gears and failing, and if it would cost more than that, then it'd become too frustrating and many players would rather not deal with it.

 

And that is where you lose player's interest also as there are so many other games out there that are cheaper to play.

 

Why I am comparing it to the real money value is because upgrading at the moment is heavily reliant on Enrich and HD ores (which are kp items) and it involves real money to buy them, even if it's from other players. You can't farm Enrich or HD ores in game for free anymore, like before with Daily Quen. Most of the value of the gears comes back to how much people spent on upgrading the gears, as well as it's rarity, on average estimation. (i.e 800m - 1.5b on +10 or more gears are average prices because it cost people, even in zeny value wise buying enrich/ hd ores off others to upgrade.)

 

Actually, I did thought over this and figured Azzy's method will require less ores to do a +5 to +9 attempt. or +10 to +12 attempts, it also means players are less likely to get bounce around with upgrades and degrades while trying to bring it back up to +7 or +9, or bouncing between +10 to +12. (i.e, it'd take maybe 1-7 ores to break the gear and players would stop, and have to go back farming more gears, versus, players who use 2 (if extremely lucky) to 150+ ores to +9 a gear. Depending on the price of Azzy's proposed new ores, if this is worth doing for both the players or for the game itself. If ores are too expensive and it could break, players may not deal with it and keep at lower upgrade levels. If ores are cheap, then player have to farm more gears, at the same time ores will have smaller sales for Warpportal as it takes so little ores to still break the gears.

 

This involves some monetizing strategy risk that the GMs would take, and this time it's not like Rudolf Hat where it was free to obtain in the first place, this is one of their big source of income as well (considering the Fire Sale suddenly popped up again means they make good money off it I am sure). I don't think it's to be taken that lightly.

 

I am no economist but I do work in the gaming industry, and have been in a company that failed due to being too greedy, making upgrades too difficult and expensive (like to finish making an asset would require almost $300 worth of materials) and sure enough the game didn't last more than 4 months as players got too frustrated and give up. >.>;; But that's another game so I will leave it as that. Who knows maybe RO players can really take on the frustration? =]

 

At the end I hope people know what they are asking for and will be happy with it. @_@ I guess there is only one way to find out if Azzy's suggestion will work, that is to try it. :x I'm not entirely behind it myself but I rather not argue with the general forumers here. Just my 2 cents. And of course, I might be wrong at the end. >.< hu.

 

tl, omg I got tired writing this! So I am gonna stop here. xD Nice discussing but ultimately it's up to the GMs to decide if they will do it. Again these are just my opinions.. >.< Take it or leave it. ^_^; Sorry if I offend.

 

Peace out! :3

[Alicia]

No more safe certs!

 

 

They should make a new item instead, and further restrict +10 certs...

Call the new item "Cursed elunium" (or oridicon). Give it a higher success rate than normal upgrading for +9->10 (and only +9->10) - but failures break. The rarity should be on the same level as safe 10's, give or take. I think a 20-35% success rate would be appropriate (I think you'd need to post the exact rate, at least as a multiplier of base rate to get player acceptance). Then cheaper gear (which would be worth a small enough amount of zeny at +9 that it would be cheaper to lose than bring back to +9 a few times or buy several certs for) would get upped with cursed, and some would get broken in the process, helping to reduce the oversupply of those gears. 

 

I like my idea better than more certs, and more oversupply because drop rates balanced for items breaking during upgrades aren't being broken ever. 

 

+1