398 replies to this topic

[renouille]

Thank you for replying. I don't know if it's just me but this answer seems a bit vague still. Going back to your original statement that all our gear comes from kRO, & that iRO has no control over what gear we get, how is it that we have had a different version of the FAW all this time? Now you say you are requesting their scripts yet that is supposedly where you already said that information comes from. That they are the ones that work on the gear. I also can't tell, when you say script, if you are talking about fixing, & adding the slot or not. It doesn't seem to me that you would need a script from them, to enable us to slot the existing FAW's, since we already have the resources to slot equipment. All you would need to do is add an NPC to allow us to.

I read it as "we're going to get kRO's item data so that we can change ours to be exactly like theirs."

 

FYI, slotting equipment isn't quite that simple. There's no operation that adds a slot to an item. All base items have a fixed number of slots that can't be changed (except globally, affecting all items of that type). So how it actually works is they have two different base items--one slotted and one unslotted--that are otherwise completely identical (most of the time). To "add a slot," the NPC deletes your unslotted item and gives you the slotted one. That's why enchants and upgrades are lost during the "slotting" process.

 

Not true at all. Look at last weeks maintenance & you will see it was asked about then also. It was just ignored so it continued on this week. The enchants had nothing to do with it.

For some reason I thought there were a lot of complaints this week, but looking back I see it's mostly just one person complaining and a large number of people (larger than last week's "I'd like to see original Fallen Angel Wing" with 4 upvotes) begging for the kRO version. How much of this is attributable to FAW becoming a hot topic of discussion again, and how much to the desire for a garment so good that one can unthinkingly wear it in almost every conceivable situation, is debatable.

[Kadelia]

To "add a slot," the NPC deletes your unslotted item and gives you the slotted one. That's why enchants and upgrades are lost during the "slotting" process.

 

I always wondered...

 

Knowing

 

A.) The game has the ability to detect your current upgrades via npc script (ex: any refiner)

B.) the game has the ability to detect your current card via npc script (ex: troy decarder)

C.) the game has the abiity to detect what is in your hidden slots via npc script (ex: any slot enchant npc)

- and -

1) the game has the ability to add refinements to an item via npc script (ex: any refiner)

2) the game has the ability to jam in cards via npc script (ex: eden quest weapon enhancer)

3) the game has the ability to fill hidden slots via npc script (ex: any slot enchant npc)

 

why doesn't

A.) the game re-add your refines after swapping your base item?

B.) the game re-add your cards after swapping your base item?

C.) the game re-add your enchants after swapping your base item?

 

Seems like Gravity is just lazy.

Edited by Jaye, 17 August 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[renouille]

The refiners don't work the way one would expect. For example, given an equipment slot number, they can tell if it's occupied by an armor/level X weapon, whether that item is upgradable, and what the success rate is (<100% = warning about possibility of breaking); but they don't actually know the current upgrade level. Likewise, they can get the names of the items you're wearing (suitable for display in a menu so that you can choose what you want to upgrade), but they can't get the ID to check if you have another copy of the item (something that would be needed for the "item as safe cert" idea).

 

I haven't seen the scripts for Troy and the enchanters, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had similar limitations: knowing the names but not IDs of compounded cards, knowing that a slot is used but not what's in it, etc.

[Razzez]

It seems that sometimes they only gets sprite, and property info instead of the whole script, and just use them for their own good. There are several gears that are different than kRo's gear. 

 

I was just talking to someone about this yesterday. From the few posts I've seen, of the kRO gear, their Sprites are so much better than ours. Unfortunately I'm not able to read any of the descriptions due to the language though

 

I read it as "we're going to get kRO's item data so that we can change ours to be exactly like theirs."

 

FYI, slotting equipment isn't quite that simple. There's no operation that adds a slot to an item. All base items have a fixed number of slots that can't be changed (except globally, affecting all items of that type). So how it actually works is they have two different base items--one slotted and one unslotted--that are otherwise completely identical (most of the time). To "add a slot," the NPC deletes your unslotted item and gives you the slotted one. That's why enchants and upgrades are lost during the "slotting" process.

 

For some reason I thought there were a lot of complaints this week, but looking back I see it's mostly just one person complaining and a large number of people (larger than last week's "I'd like to see original Fallen Angel Wing" with 4 upvotes) begging for the kRO version. How much of this is attributable to FAW becoming a hot topic of discussion again, and how much to the desire for a garment so good that one can unthinkingly wear it in almost every conceivable situation, is debatable.

 

If you are referring to what Oda said then you are misquoting him. He said nothing about making any item we have "EXACTLY" like kRO's. This is what he said:

 

We are aware of the issue and have asked kRO for their fallen angel wing scripts. We do not have news yet from them back on this. 

 

As far as slotting equipment, you must have misunderstood what I said, since it is a simple process that's already in place. All you have to do is take gear that can be slotted, to the NPC’s that do slotting, in order to have the slots added. That's what Troy is for also except you have to use a Slot Ad for him. Being that these NPC's already exist, it doesn't seem like it would be very hard, to either add a New NPC to Slot the FAW's, or make it so one of the existing NPC's can slot them at no charge. A new NPC would be the best idea, and then they can make sure the success rate is set at 100%, without having to modify a current one. 

 

The reason there wasn't as much talk, about the slot ads last week, compared to this week, is because when they released them this week, the stats were wrong, & didn't work as they had been or should have been.

[renouille]

If you are referring to what Oda said then you are misquoting him. He said nothing about making any item we have "EXACTLY" like kRO's. This is what he said:

It's not misquoting; it's reading between the lines.

 

As far as slotting equipment, you must have misunderstood what I said, since it is a simple process that's already in place. All you have to do is take gear that can be slotted, to the NPC’s that do slotting, in order to have the slots added. That's what Troy is for also except you have to use a Slot Ad for him. Being that these NPC's already exist, it doesn't seem like it would be very hard, to either add a New NPC to Slot the FAW's, or make it so one of the existing NPC's can slot them at no charge. A new NPC would be the best idea, and then they can make sure the success rate is set at 100%, without having to modify a current one.

Are you rejecting my purely informational (hence "FYI") explanation of how slotting really works, or did you have another point? To allow slotting of fallen angel wings, they would have to create a new item and allocate an ID to it, and if their resistance to the billion-zeny coin--something that pRO already has--is any indication, that last part isn't something that they're likely to do on their own.

 

This is part of the code for one of the slotting NPCs.

ShowEffect "Seiyablem" EF_LORD
dialog "[Seiyablem]"
dialog "Great, it seems to be successful."
dialog "It looks pretty well done. Congratulations!"
dropitem Thimble_Of_Archer 1
dropitem Elunium 2
dropgold 1000000
getitem Thimble_Of_Archer_ 1

Note how it deletes the bow thimble (ID#2619) and gives you a bow thimble [1] (ID#2671). This NPC has over 20000 lines of code because it has to handle every item separately. Now you may insist that adding 55 more lines for fallen angel wings wouldn't be a big deal, and I would be inclined to agree, but again you have to keep in mind that they refuse to consider the billion-zeny coin, which is not only about as easy to implement, but has already been done on pRO and would elegantly solve a lot of the problems we currently have with carrying and trading large amounts of zeny.

[Kadelia]

The refiners don't work the way one would expect. For example, given an equipment slot number, they can tell if it's occupied by an armor/level X weapon, whether that item is upgradable, and what the success rate is (<100% = warning about possibility of breaking); but they don't actually know the current upgrade level. Likewise, they can get the names of the items you're wearing (suitable for display in a menu so that you can choose what you want to upgrade), but they can't get the ID to check if you have another copy of the item (something that would be needed for the "item as safe cert" idea).

 

Then how do enriched hammer and mighty hammer know if your weapon is at +7 when lvl 3 and 4 weps have different rates? How do those 2 npc know you're at +10 and you need to switch to HD ores, when 9 to 10 and 10 to 11 have the same success rate?

 

 

I haven't seen the scripts for Troy and the enchanters, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had similar limitations: knowing the names but not IDs of compounded cards, knowing that a slot is used but not what's in it, etc.

 

If it can't detect the ID of the card, how does it give you your card after destroying the item? If the malangdo NPC can't detect your  item, how does it give you a new copy of your gear and card after separating them?
 

[renouille]

Then how do enriched hammer and mighty hammer know if your weapon is at +7 when lvl 3 and 4 weps have different rates? How do those 2 npc know you're at +10 and you need to switch to HD ores, when 9 to 10 and 10 to 11 have the same success rate?

I checked again, and it turns out that NPCs can tell what the upgrade level of an equipped item is. My apologies.

 

If it can't detect the ID of the card, how does it give you your card after destroying the item? If the malangdo NPC can't detect your  item, how does it give you a new copy of your gear and card after separating them?

As I hadn't seen the scripts for those NPCs, that was just speculation on my part. NPCs being unable to detect your item and do something useful with it came directly from Heim, and at the time (this was a few years ago) I was unable to find anything to prove him wrong. All the NPCs I thought were capable of it actually used massive if-then-else blocks like "if equipped[A] do something; else if equipped[B] do something else; etc."

 

Now that I've seen the scripts for the new NPCs, I don't see any reason your idea wouldn't work.

[Kadelia]

I script PHP and javascript so I have an idea of how scripting works, so it seemed a little odd to me the way kRO codes things. It seems very inefficient and silly the way a lot of the npcs work. 20,000 lines of code...? jeeez. I feel like that could be done a wayyyyy better way!

 

Perhaps iRO can have some custom NPC that can preserve upgrades/enchants... *whistle*

Edited by Jaye, 17 August 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[Razzez]

I haven't seen the scripts for Troy and the enchanters, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had similar limitations: knowing the names but not IDs of compounded cards, knowing that a slot is used but not what's in it, etc.

 

If you haven't seen something then stop making "speculations" & "assumptions" about what can & can't be done. There is no reason to keep rejecting the suggestions I make.

 

Mods please stop showing favoritism towards staff posts. Everyone is entitled to make suggestions & comment on them.
 

[renouille]

If you haven't seen something then stop making "speculations" & "assumptions" about what can & can't be done. There is no reason to keep rejecting the suggestions I make.

• The point of the speculation was to suggest that the reason slotting NPCs don't preserve an item's attributes might not be that "Gravity is just lazy." It had nothing to do with anything you said.
• I did not "reject" your suggestion. I said the slotting process is more complicated than just adding an NPC. This is a fact.
• Although I didn't reject your suggestion, I'll go ahead and do it now. Why should they deal with the complexity of maintaining two versions of an item that every other server has only one of, and an NPC to convert from one to the other, when they can simply change the existing item's properties and script to match kRO's?

Mods please stop showing favoritism towards staff posts. Everyone is entitled to make suggestions & comment on them.

• You should practice what you preach and stop trying to censor comments that you perceive as unfavorable.
• It's not favoritism to remove incendiary posts that fail to contribute to the discussion. I don't know if that's what happened, so this is merely speculation.

Edited by renouille, 18 August 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[zr0rieu]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Razzez. View it anyway?

[teffalockheart]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Razzez. View it anyway?

 

wow, this is... can i make post like this too mods without being banned?

Edited by teffalockheart, 18 August 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Inubashiri]

Edited by Inubashiri, 18 August 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Kadelia]

Please add 2 card slots to carrot whip and rose vine for next maintenance please

[Razzez]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Razzez. View it anyway?

 

Thank you. Now I'll no longer be harassed by you.

 

wow, this is... can i make post like this too mods without being banned?

 

You can't troll mods, & you can get warnings if you do, but that's when you are replying to a specific mod, after they post. This seems to be the case, whether they post personally, or as a mod. You get temp bans when you get too many warnings.

[Razzez]

 

• The point of the speculation was to suggest that the reason slotting NPCs don't preserve an item's attributes might not be that "Gravity is just lazy." It had nothing to do with anything you said.
• I did not "reject" your suggestion. I said the slotting process is more complicated than just adding an NPC. This is a fact.
• Although I didn't reject your suggestion, I'll go ahead and do it now. Why should they deal with the complexity of maintaining two versions of an item that every other server has only one of, and an NPC to convert from one to the other, when they can simply change the existing item's properties and script to match kRO's?

• You should practice what you preach and stop trying to censor comments that you perceive as unfavorable.
• It's not favoritism to remove incendiary posts that fail to contribute to the discussion. I don't know if that's what happened, so this is merely speculation.

 

 

First off I'm not a mod nor would I want to be. I can't censor comments made and/or delete posts people make just because I don't like something they said. On the other hand staff & volunteers are able to have this done. It is favoritism when mods won't do anything about a post that made by a volunteer though, & goes as far as to tell the person who, & when someone reports their post.

 

You only mentioned that the NPC's script, which has the possibility, of failing, couldn't be used, for slotting the FAW's. That wasn't what I had suggested though. You didn't say a thing about, what I said about a new NPC, which wouldn't be that complicated when the script already exists to do it. You have the scripts from those NPC's plus Troy. In fact they wouldn't even need to add a new NPC. They could just add the slot option to the FAW enchanter one.

 

No one said anything about maintaining 2 versions, of any item, other than you just now. If & when they get the correct FAW's then the next time they are released they will be correct. Gear that is already released doesn't require maintenance. Plus we only need to be able to slot it once :xd

 

If you don't agree with my comments or perceive them as unfavorable rather than try to censor me each time I do, either ignore me or block my messages. It's not appropriate for my post to be deleted when I was making valid suggestions & comments. If something needed editing then it should have been. Don't censor me just because you are a volunteer & help staff!

[MeisterKirisaki]

If you don't agree with my comments [...]

You should really learn when to stop. If you'd read (and comprehend) what other people tell you, then you wouldn't argue endlessly.
 

[Razzez]

I just noticed that the Fallen Angel Wing Enchant info was added to the website. It shows the list of all the enchants available however it doesn't list the ranges of each one. Is this posted anywhere?

 

 

[renouille]

First off I'm not a mod nor would I want to be. I can't censor comments made and/or delete posts people make just because I don't like something they said. On the other hand staff & volunteers are able to have this done. It is favoritism when mods won't do anything about a post that made by a volunteer though, & goes as far as to tell the person who, & when someone reports their post.

 

You only mentioned that the NPC's script, which has the possibility, of failing, couldn't be used, for slotting the FAW's. That wasn't what I had suggested though. You didn't say a thing about, what I said about a new NPC, which wouldn't be that complicated when the script already exists to do it. You have the scripts from those NPC's plus Troy. In fact they wouldn't even need to add a new NPC. They could just add the slot option to the FAW enchanter one.

 

No one said anything about maintaining 2 versions, of any item, other than you just now. If & when they get the correct FAW's then the next time they are released they will be correct. Gear that is already released doesn't require maintenance. Plus we only need to be able to slot it once :xd

 

If you don't agree with my comments or perceive them as unfavorable rather than try to censor me each time I do, either ignore me or block my messages. It's not appropriate for my post to be deleted when I was making valid suggestions & comments. If something needed editing then it should have been. Don't censor me just because you are a volunteer & help staff!

 

In my book, telling people to stop posting and reporting non-inflammatory posts that you simply don't like are attempts at censorship. I don't know which volunteer-made posts you're referring to, but there is nothing actionable about any of my posts. Furthermore, no one told me anything. I don't know if you're implying that you reported my posts, which never attacked you, but if you did, you really should know better.

 

I haven't deleted your posts (I don't have that power anyway); I've never reported anyone's posts on this forum; I've never asked for your posts to be deleted; and I've never told you to stop posting X, Y, and Z; so tell me: how have I tried to censor you?

 

Truth be told, I didn't want to reply at all, but I felt it would have been irresponsible not to dispel the completely groundless accusations of some kind of moderator conspiracy against you.

[Kadelia]

First off I'm not a mod nor would I want to be. I can't censor comments made and/or delete posts people make just because I don't like something they said.

 

Censoring yourself doesn't require moderation powers.

 

Back on topic. Any progress getting that card slot added?

 

 

...To carrot whip and rosevine, and if you have time, to FAW. But prioritize the first 2.

Edited by Jaye, 18 August 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[CharAznable]

Please re-confirm whats being said on the website. I do believe that +7 refinement on Fallen Angel wing allows you to have two enchantment(works the same in kRo version) and +8 doesn't give any enchantment slot. +9 however, makes 3rd slot available for enchantment and gives chance to have hidden enchantment. Please fix the information before people get malformed about it. 

Edited by CharAznable, 18 August 2013 - 09:06 PM.

[RoseRed21]

how long is the dragon helm and Yoa Jun hat quests in for? ._.

[Razzez]

It is favoritism when mods won't do anything about a post that made by a volunteer though, & goes as far as to tell the person who, & when someone reports their post.

 

I wasn't referring to you. I can't names so I didn't & I won't.

 

In my book, telling people to stop posting and reporting non-inflammatory posts that you simply don't like are attempts at censorship.

 

Please feel free to show me where I have ever once done this. I've never told anyone to stop posting nor have I reported anyone because I didn't like what they said. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions.

 

I haven't deleted your posts (I don't have that power anyway); I've never reported anyone's posts on this forum; I've never asked for your posts to be deleted; and I've never told you to stop posting X, Y, and Z; so tell me: how have I tried to censor you?

 

I didn't say you did.

 

Truth be told, I didn't want to reply at all, but I felt it would have been irresponsible not to dispel the completely groundless accusations of some kind of moderator conspiracy against you.

 

I didn't want to reply either, but I don't like be accused of saying, & doing things I didn't.

[Campitor]

This thread is done.