125 replies to this topic

[5391130503175245443]

First of all, I would like to apologize in advance if this sounds repetitive from my other posting.  But this is a quite different matter so please bear with me.  Melee classes in Colo are like fish in the pond for most range dps.  In an environment where KSing and Survival appear to be the keys in winning, melee characters lack the range to KS multple targets or survive the attacks from range classes which often comes as a barrage from multiple characters. 

 

Yes, we do have a chance to win in Colo.  But when compared to range classes, we dont win as nearly often as they do.  Don't even get me started on Sorcs and Priests.  They are able to heal, do 2-shot crit kills, stun/freeze melee classes in place where they cant do anything but wait to get killed, heal to max hp and bubble up while putting DoTs on melee characters so they can die while chasing them, KS from ranges so melee character players don't even know from where or how they were attacked or by whom they were killed (of course not both sorcs and priests can do all these).

 

Shouldn't there be some sort of an adjustment???  Whether a defensive skill buff or decreased cooldown, or just overall increase in defense in colo?

 

And don't give me that 'oh i get killed by melee characters all the time' or 'melee characters win in colo' crap.

 

In general, most winners from Colo are ranged classes and melee classes cant come close to be able to KS as much as range class in colo.  I play both range and melee classes.  While my lowbie lv 27 ranger often go to round 4 and 5 in colo.  I could not imagine a melee class getting the same result simply because melee classes CANNOT KS or SURVIVE as well as range classes.  I walk into Colo as a lv50 melee class, and people can tell that this characters is not well geared.  I get killed by a barrage of range skills in a matter of 2-3 seconds.  While the similiar event happens to my lv27 range class, I am able to advance to high rounds with it simply because I can KS much better than I can with my melee class.

 

 

[Meconopsis]

The game follows a simple paradigm.

 

Tank - DPS - Healer - Debuffer - Buffer - Magic DPS

 

With this mindset, you can't balance the game in colo. The reason is because equalizing a weakness of a class to be like another role will give them too many advantages in Colo.

Also, with this mindset, Colo can not be balanced. You have to wait until Gravity decides to release a Team PvP. Then Paradigms will start to show game balance.

 

 

[Gluttannie]

Have you seen a ranger with the Poring Buff? It's hilarious watching a single player dominate anyone he targets. (Can someone remind me why rangers were included in the list of classes to benefit from this buff?)

Anyways, RO1 had a neat feature in WoE/BG where ranged damage (physical and magical) are reduced by 40%. Since skills in RO1 are a lot more spammable, we could adopt a similar system but with maybe a -20% penalty instead of -40%. And take away the poring buff from rangers lol.

Edited by Gluttannie, 12 August 2013 - 07:47 PM.

[4860130515113635440]

The game follows a simple paradigm.

 

Tank - DPS - Healer - Debuffer - Buffer - Magic DPS

 

With this mindset, you can't balance the game in colo. The reason is because equalizing a weakness of a class to be like another role will give them too many advantages in Colo.

Also, with this mindset, Colo can not be balanced. You have to wait until Gravity decides to release a Team PvP. Then Paradigms will start to show game balance.

 

They could fix it fairly easy. Give melee classes extra health(or rework the health boost) and increase their move speed of them by 10-20% so they can't be kitted by latency alone. After that make it so rangers can't get poring buff and you have a fairly balanced colo.

[7675130511200256733]

I have a full colo sorc with T2 accessories.

 

It can take me 1 minute to kill an equally equipped Monk or Knight in colosseum, even with the best burst DPS in the game. 

 

An assassin can kill me in less than 10 seconds. Any tank can chain stun me and prevent me from shifting to heal mode and throwing LoR, which takes a full 4 seconds to achieve. 

 

Colosseum is balanced. Melees do not need a buff. 

 

If you doubt me, level a Sorc and try to win in Colo. It's a challenge to take down any tank or priest, and you're vulnerable while you do it. 

 

 

[5344130512045108620]

Colosseum is balanced. Melees do not need a buff. 

 

 

If you think Colosseum is balanced level a Beastmaster and try to make it to the finals. I dont have a beastmaster myself, but I've made it to the finals plenty of times on my sin and ranger and not once have I seen a beastmaster. On the other hand I see plenty of sorcs make it to the finals. Same for rangers and priests. And I have made it to the finals more times on my ranger than my sin, despite having done more colos with my sin. Really now? Colosseum balanced between melee and ranged? What a joke lol

 

EDIT: Colo is more about kill stealing from tanks and melee classes. Sure you can go after them if they are low or if you have 200% buff but if you're getting knocked out of a round because you're only targeting full hp tanks then you are just bad at colo and its not about classes being balanced.

Edited by 5344130512045108620, 12 August 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[ChopChopz]

Colo is not balanced, statistics says it all, ranged class get Victory way more often than any melee.

 

I doubt if there's a single BM/Monk currently has enough VM to afford a set of T2 accessories.

But a bunch of sorc/rangers/priest already have that.

 

This is a fact, nuff said.

Edited by ChopChopz, 12 August 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[Tiduspeco]

The only thing that needs to be done is this:

 

RDPS can not cast while moving.

 

That would solve the OP Ranger problem in colo.

 

[Kyriuu]

How many monks and Bms do you see showing off their full Colo sets? 

 

 

...

 

 

Exactly.

[Lazy34]

Cut ranged classes' range in half during colosseum. And fix the dead bodies attacking. And fix those bricks/blocks/uneven areas that give us the " Cannot move to that location" message. And stop characters from sliding/moving when they've been stopped or stunned or frozen.

[Rukaroa]

How many monks and Bms do you see showing off their full Colo sets? 
 
 
...
 
 
Exactly.

 
I don't show off mine because I don't want to and wear a costume over it instead. But for the sake of argument:
 

Colo is not balanced, statistics says it all, ranged class get Victory way more often than any melee.

I doubt if there's a single BM/Monk currently has enough VM to afford a set of T2 accessories.
But a bunch of sorc/rangers/priest already have that.

This is a fact, nuff said.

For the effort it takes and increase in stats to get T2 gear, it's really not worth it unless you have the points and medals to begin with. At least for monks. Everyone else may see a decent increase, but it's still pretty marginal.
 
The only thing I can think of as far as the topic is concerned is move speed increase for melee without the help of VIP.

Edited by Rukaroa, 13 August 2013 - 02:33 AM.

[SuperGlue]

I'm a monk and I don't know these chain stuns that you claim us tanks to have.

Seriously, we get two (or three) opportunities to secure a kill and 0 skills for survivability afterwards. We have a buff that boosts our def by 50% but otherwise, we're sitting ducks.

It's true, there is no absolute way to balance colo without nerf-batting some classes or introducing team pvp

[Atweig]

My wizard can hardly spend 10 seconds in Colo without someone attacking her (everybody is rushing to wizards like bees to snapdragons), sometimes I spend more time lying on the floor than actually killing other players. But I'm still able to reach round 4 quite easily. For BM it's very very hard.

 

I have a full colo sorc with T2 accessories.

 

^ I can't even dream of getting so many Vict. Medals.

Edited by Atweig, 13 August 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[RavenTDA]

I'm actually better at my melee class character (sin) than I am at my ranged by a significant amount (priest). I've also heard others say it's easier on a tank as well. I think it just depends on your play style. I also can't colo on my sorc character that I don't often use like... AT ALL. All I do is just die the entire round and I do know what you have to do, I just am not good at it. So I think there is a balance it's just maybe your pvp skills aren't good for the class you play. Maybe try another class and see if that suits you more?

Also if you want the items are there for you. You can use wind elixirs or vip to boost yourself if you feel like that's what you want to do to keep up. I don't use them on my sin yet still am able to overcome the problem of catching up and the problem when a fast player tries to run from me. You have to just learn what to do and figure it out. There's tricks outside of your stun skills. Also not every class should focus on just players. Maybe try killing only monsters or a mix.

Personally I don't think there needs to be a balance. If you give melee more speed then it's too much of advantage because most of these guys are tanks. Ranged is normally very squishy so they die more often and need to make up for it by killing more people. If what you are doing isn't working, try a different strategy.

Also Ruka you are so handsome in your colo gears you should wear them more~

Edited by RavenTDA, 13 August 2013 - 03:55 AM.

[suz8]

I have a full colo sorc with T2 accessories.

 

It can take me 1 minute to kill an equally equipped Monk or Knight in colosseum, even with the best burst DPS in the game. 

 

An assassin can kill me in less than 10 seconds. Any tank can chain stun me and prevent me from shifting to heal mode and throwing LoR, which takes a full 4 seconds to achieve. 

 

Colosseum is balanced. Melees do not need a buff. 

 

If you doubt me, level a Sorc and try to win in Colo. It's a challenge to take down any tank or priest, and you're vulnerable while you do it. 

my thoughts exactly.

 

why dont we make statistics on WHICH CLASS DIES THE MOST? and see what comes first. hmm.. SORC? ... WIZ? tired of these threads. I get ksed by sins all the time, u dont see me making a thead about it.

[CyGorg]

What about the adjustment between ranged and ranged classes?

What about the adjustment between melee and melee classes?

What about the adjustment between Colo MvP/Mob and classes?

What about the adjustment between bugs and premades/partys in Colo?

 

Answer:

Missing skills from players cannot be adjusted by the game, I guess.

Make a Colo party like a lot of others (with no skills) are doing.

 

[ZT0100]

Solution is to remove the VIP buff from Colo. VIP ranged classes vs non-VIP melee classes = ranged classes win! Same goes for VIP melee vs non-VIP melee. This HUGE advantage makes Colo P2W. The only melee class that has a chance with ranged classes is the assassin. It can jump on them or chase after them, no problem. I play a rogue and I can't tell you how many times assassins can simply give me the slip. On the other hand, fighting against a wizard with no VIP is pretty fair.

 

Speed is very important in Colo, which leads me to say... remove all the speed buffs (wind elixirs and VIP) from the game!  Colo should be based on players' skills only, not the one that can afford the buffs..

[LadyRava]

The only thing that needs to be done is this:

 

RDPS can not cast while moving.

 

That would solve the OP Ranger problem in colo.

 

This wouldn't be re-balancing it would be completely breaking rangers. As a ranger all I have going for me is speed and the occasional crit. If I end up in melee with anyone I'm going to die shortly because rangers have no defense and we don't do burst damage. Getaway skills only delay the inevitable, as many classes have gap closers or are fast enough. I also don't understand why the poring buff keeps getting brought up. Yes if you get it, its very strong, but good luck doing that without getting stunned or snared. I've had such bad luck getting the poring buff I've almost stopped trying completely. When a squishy class gets debuffed by a poring it's almost instadeath. Also melee classes like warriors often spin to grab them all. I do think it's not fair only physical damage classes can benefit. Either remove the buff completely or give it to all.

 

The problem with the arguments in this thread is that everyone keeps mentioning the troubles specific melee classes face as a reason all melee/range classes need to be re-balanced. Yes beastmasters and monks have a rough time and colo. But sins and warriors are really strong and with something like a movement buff would completely dominate since they don't die often. One main balance point that already exists between every ranged class but priest is squishiness. I die 5-8 times every round, so I need to get enough kills to make up for that. Yes a tank may only be able to get 1-3 kills, but since they almost never die it balances out. If melee classes get this kind of buff then squishy classes need some defense. So I agree that some of the gimped classes could use a hand but that's far from a general melee buff/ ranged debuff.

Edited by LadyRava, 13 August 2013 - 04:32 AM.

[matthewcupu]

using melee class ecpecially tank is kinda difficult,on the other hand using ranged classes require less effort to win

[NuwaChan]

I think some melee classes need to be buffed. SIns, and Warriors really don't need buffs they are competitive right now. BMs and Monks need a lot of improvement.

I think Survival, and Bear Form should be drastically upgraded. For Monks their cooldowns should be reduced, Throw Spirit Sphere

should slow down targets, And the damage on GF should be doubled. Rogues need to be upgraded, but I don't know their skills.

 

An important thing to understand in Colo is that naturally there is more agro on Rangers, Sins, and Sorcs. So ranged chars need to play more conservatively

than melee, Because everyone goes after them first.

[Leinzan]

http://forums.warppo...16-colo-survey/

 

 

Feel free to fill in

[Armlock2]

playerskill>classes

 

anyway...

 

G.fist damage just sucks and has a so long cool down and long animation.

In RO 1 hardly some one face a monk without caution - 1 asura = 90% KO chances .

in RO 2 Gfist takes 25% of life.. nothing else

 

TSS should throw 3 spheres if you have them.

 

 

But.. guys... they wont change anything, trust me.

 

What we can do is adapt to the circumstances.... monks are reaching the finals in colo with this

Edited by Armlock2, 13 August 2013 - 05:45 AM.

[DatMONKey]

Melee classes and Tanks especially have a bigger issue with timing than anything else for colo. A viable strategy is to die as little as possible, which means not dying at all during the rounds. To do so you need to be able to farm mobs and players effectively enough to not get ranked too high and become a target yourself. If you do go all out, make sure you can survive the oncoming onslaught. Even with a premade ganking me it takes a while for me to go down. The death itself isn't bad, what sucks is how much time is lost. If you're running around while slowing getting killed for 1 minute then you aren't gaining many points. I'm pretty sure if armor had better % scaling that would be enough to fix a Tank's problems in colo. If you get your timing down, almost all of your problems are already solved.

 

As far as buggy mechanics go, that's something I've given up on. The dead ranged bug, sliding into walls, sliding when you use your CC, Out of Range, and Cannot move to this location bugs are all things that have become as natural as taking and giving damage in colo for me. Those things attribute more to my losses than any sorcerer or ranger.

[ZT0100]

playerskill>classes

 

anyway...

 

G.fist damage just sucks and has a so long cool down and long animation.

In RO 1 hardly some one face a monk without caution - 1 asura = 90% KO chances .

in RO 2 Gfist takes 25% of life.. nothing else

 

TSS should throw 3 spheres if you have them.

 

 

But.. guys... they wont change anything, trust me.

 

What we can do is adapt to the circumstances.... monks are reaching the finals in colo with this

Player skills > classes, what? What if both players are equal in skills but one class has a clear advantage over the other? GG. I don't think I have seen a monk in the final ever. Assassins, rangers, wizards, sorcerers are the top dogs. Knights and warriors are up there too.

 

[Armlock2]

Player skills > classes, what? What if both players are equal in skills but one class has a clear advantage over the other? GG. I don't think I have seen a monk in the final ever. Assassins, rangers, wizards, sorcerers are the top dogs. Knights and warriors are up there too.

http://forums.warppo...olosseum-guide/

 

If you are a monk you should take a a piece of it