125 replies to this topic

[Meconopsis]

That guide is only a basic general guide for all tanks in general. I'm a monk and very serious about PvP and trust me, you have input 5x the player skill to even come out on top. Or your 5 opponents have to be extremely dumb, literally, to let you stay 1st.

[xxalucard]

why dont we make statistics on WHICH CLASS DIES THE MOST? and see what comes first. hmm.. SORC? ... WIZ?

 

I can safely tell you the answer to that question is WIZ

 

If only you knew how many times my baby Brittany Spears got mauled at the start of a round...

Edited by xxalucard, 13 August 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[matthewcupu]

That guide is only a basic general guide for all tanks in general. I'm a monk and very serious about PvP and trust me, you have input 5x the player skill to even come out on top. Or your 5 opponents have to be extremely dumb, literally, to let you stay 1st.

 

+1

[ZT0100]

http://forums.warppo...olosseum-guide/

 

If you are a monk you should take a a piece of it

<-------------------------DO I LOOK LIKE A MONK TO YOU????

 

I am not a monk, but I am defending the slow melee classes. But seriously, what's said in that post apply to all classes. Kill mobs? Ranged classes have less problems killing mobs. Mobs tend to run off somewhere and meleers have to chase after, which they get KSed a lot. Anyone can use master red pots. The problem here is ranged classes don't have to worry as much when fighting meleers because they are like 10+ meters away.

 

It's very simple, attacking players from afar is a big deal. Tanks can take the hits and assassins can catch up, but poor rogues like me are pretty much dead out of hide. :'( I think it's okay, though. This makes classes unique. Rogues rely on hiding anyway. What ticks me off is the P2W aspect of it. I don't want to get VIP to be on equal footing as classes that already have the distance advantage over me.

Edited by ZT0100, 13 August 2013 - 06:13 AM.

[Zechrem]

Well you have your base rock vs paper vs scissors advantage... but the game mechanics just make melee life dumb as hell. Especially when you are 1 hit from killing someone and they become untargetable because they slide or position lag.

As far as what classes die the most... Please... its called give and take... you kill fast therefore you die fast... wiz gets 4-7 kills a round easily just dotting people which in turn gives you a higher base rank than others. Add the fact that you have a steady dmg skill to easily kill a higher rank class near the end with very useful utility skills and theres not much to complain. There would be SOME complaints if it was a elimination type of match (which even so you might be at a better advantage). Rangers do have the mobility advantage along with poring buff.

The ONLY reason why colo seems more fair for melees is the poring buff. If it wasn't for that ONE factor melees would have virtually no chance to win against equally skilled ranged characters. I do appreciate the poring buff as it adds a luck advantage to the round but in most cases you may spend 20 seconds of the 30 second buff just chasing someone.

We are also talking about a respawn/ks system. OMG you died? w/e respawn and kill some more.. unless your a melee with pitiful dps relying on high cooldowns.

 

Also there is no way it takes that long to kill a tank, im in full colo as a monk (also have a knight and warrior) and if my protection ki isn't up I die just as fast as a ranged class given an extra 2-8 seconds. Add the fact that most of the time im spent chasing people or being used as a sponge to build up combos and your looking at a bad set up in scheme of things. And what of our defense skills? its a heavy cooldown and the reason why people think tanks are unkillable because most players save these defense skill towards the end of the round which in turns makes most people targeting them at the say, "OMFG so hard to kill".... while the rest of the round he was dying just as much as everyone else. You automatically retain that biased memory. I believe for the most part colo is sort of balanced if they could fix the horrible position lag / teleporting / bugged characters BS.

Typical melee scenario:

You both run at the same speed

They have at least one skill to you against you while running (knights and sins have an advantage here, battle leap cannot be used while moving and with position lag it'll likely miss)

 

Another reason why melees seem op against ranged is because most ranged classes (in the eyes of the ranged) have had life too easy in just sitting still and pressing one button. Theres a large difference in the "skilled" players vs unskilled where they just stand still and take the hits and get kited through "facing" skills. Your ranged for a reason... unless your a sorc... I guess you can just stand there and laugh while you heal back up and get your CD's back...

 

Little off topic but it was discussed in this one.

Well another thing they need to do is... adjust stats on colo accessories. Int classes receive a higher bonus on equipment compared to their str counterparts and when you consider skill scaling (and you think of future equipment updates) the gap becomes worse and worse since it seems it is % based. New T2 accessories give more agi for int classes while str classes don't get anything along with higher base stats.

 

 

Edited by Zechrem, 13 August 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[ZT0100]

Well you have your base rock vs paper vs scissors advantage.

 

It's not as clear as "rock vs paper vs scissors advantage." I think rangers have the upper-hand in Colo.

 

Speed- check

Range- check

DPS- check

Hide- check

 

Some classes are just superior to most classes.

 

[Zechrem]

It's not as clear as "rock vs paper vs scissors advantage." I think rangers have the upper-hand in Colo.

 

Speed- check

Range- check

DPS- check

Hide- check

 

Some classes are just superior to most classes.

 

I said BASE advantage. Im basically saying come classes will obviously have a better setup towards another class.. and some are just really set up for >> well you know.

[LadyRava]

It's not as clear as "rock vs paper vs scissors advantage." I think rangers have the upper-hand in Colo.

 

Speed- check

Range- check

DPS- check

Hide- check

 

Some classes are just superior to most classes.

 

Yes lets mention advantages for some classes while ignoring the advantages for the others. Here's some melee ones:

 

Tanks

 

Defense - check

High HP -check

Stun/Knockdown - check

Not being a KoS target - check

 

Sins(and to some extent Rogues)

 

Speed - check

DPS -check

Hide -check - better than rangers

Stun/Knockdown -check

[Meconopsis]

No matter how hard people think they can balance Colo, it's impossible. It's like trying to putting a mix of multiple animals in a cage to the death. The one who will win is the one with most advantages. Buff all melee classes - Pretty much makes Knights, Warriors, and OBVIOUSLY Assassins broken.

 

Stating that your ranger, sorc, wizard, priest, etc. keep getting focused is obviously due to top dogs trying to rid of the other top dog classes. Do you honestly want these classes to advance compared to that Rogue, BM, or Monk who have less chances to kill?

 

You want that final round to be as easy as possible. You want to keep a strategy where you have an easy target in that final. You want to get rid of the cash shop users and any pre-mades out as much as your class can.

 

You also can say that weak classes like Monk and BM are also a part of this, and when reaching Round 5 you can expect this to come to play when Frost Divers or any Stuns are thrown at your class even though you're probably 6th place.

 

That is Colo.

Edited by Meconopsis, 13 August 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Meconopsis]

Yes lets mention advantages for some classes while ignoring the advantages for the others. Here's some melee ones:

 

Tanks

 

Defense - check

High HP -check

Stun/Knockdown - check

Not being a KoS target - check

 

Sins(and to some extent Rogues)

 

Speed - check

DPS -check

Hide -check - better than rangers

Stun/Knockdown -check

 

Let us see what monks are...

 

Defense - Check

High HP - Check

Stun/Knockdown -      (If you call stunning yourself a stun, shrugs)

Not being a KoS Target - Debatable. Sorcs and Wizards still tear through me like its nobody's business.

Edited by Meconopsis, 13 August 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Rukaroa]

Player skills > classes, what? What if both players are equal in skills but one class has a clear advantage over the other? GG. I don't think I have seen a monk in the final ever. Assassins, rangers, wizards, sorcerers are the top dogs. Knights and warriors are up there too.

Oh, we get there to the finals all right. You just don't see us because the few that get there either really lucky or know how to deal with other classes.

 

Yes lets mention advantages for some classes while ignoring the advantages for the others. Here's some melee ones:

 

Tanks

 

Defense - check

High HP -check

Stun/Knockdown - check

Not being a KoS target - check

 

Sins(and to some extent Rogues)

 

Speed - check

DPS -check

Hide -check - better than rangers

Stun/Knockdown -check

 

I'll give you points for Defense and high HP. KoS is debatable and there's always that one idiot tank that targets other tanks.

 

Stun/Knockdown? Don't make me laugh. Knights and Warriors have point blank stun as well as a running/charge stun. Beastmasters have a charge/rolling stun though I'm not sure if they have a point blank one either since I'm not too familiar with them. Monks have 1 stun and it can only be used while a buff is up and in close range. ONE. I can complain all I want about that, but the fact is that I can only work with what I have.

 

There are ways for melee in general to handle Colo, going bat-_- crazy attacking things left and right isn't one of them. Unless you're a sin. That seems to work well with mixed results.

Edited by Rukaroa, 13 August 2013 - 07:12 AM.

[LadyRava]

Stating that your ranger, sorc, wizard, priest, etc. keep getting focused is obviously due to top dogs trying to rid of the other top dog classes. Do you honestly want these classes to advance compared to that Rogue, BM, or Monk who have less chances to kill?

 

 

That's only part of the reason though. Most players target easy kills instead of spending a fourth of the round trying to wear down a tough a opponent. What's easier to kill a ranger/sorc/wizard with 8000 hp and little to no defense or a tank with 11000 hp and high defense? I only go after a tank or priest if they have low health because it's not worth it otherwise. And as a ranged who do I hate in Round 5 the most? Tanks. Nothing like being stunlocked the whole round.  I ended up in a round 5 once with only one other sorc and all tanks. The sorc and I only targeted each other the whole time due to low hp and the tanks also only targeted us.

 

I do agree with you that colo can't really be balanced without messing up class dynamics for PVE.

[ZT0100]

Yes lets mention advantages for some classes while ignoring the advantages for the others. Here's some melee ones:

 

Tanks

 

Defense - check

High HP -check

Stun/Knockdown - check

Not being a KoS target - check

 

Sins(and to some extent Rogues)

 

Speed - check

DPS -check

Hide -check - better than rangers

Stun/Knockdown -check

Speed, power, and range are the most important things in Colo, IMO. I honestly don't care about tanks. I can simply run away if they don't have VIP to catch up. I, however, can't run away from mages and rangers( assassins too.) The point of Colo is to get kills and ranked. Although tanks have high survivability, they can't get as much kills as say, rangers and sorcerers. If a tank gets 1st place at the last seconds consistently, then that's a problem. I don't see that happening a lot. Ranged classes have the upper-hand, and that's that. Assassins are up there as well because they are fast, strong, and can tank with SA.
 

[LadyRava]

Oh, we get there to the finals all right. You just don't see us because the few that get there either really lucky or know how to deal with other classes.

 

 

I'll give you points for Defense and high HP. KoS is debatable and there's always that one idiot tank that targets other tanks.

 

Stun/Knockdown? Don't make me laugh. Knights and Warriors have point blank stun as well as a running/charge stun. Beastmasters have a charge/rolling stun though I'm not sure if they have a point blank one either since I'm not too familiar with them. Monks have 1 stun and it can only be used while a buff is up and in close range. ONE. I can complain all I want about that, but the fact is that I can only work with what I have.

 

There are ways for melee in general to handle Colo, going bat-_- crazy attacking things left and right isn't one of them. Unless you're a sin. That seems to work well with mixed results.

Yeah for Stun/Knockdown I really only mean knights and warriors. I agree that BMs and Monks need some work.

[Meconopsis]

Oh, we get there to the finals all right. You just don't see us because the few that get there either really lucky or know how to deal with other classes.

 

 

I'll give you points for Defense and high HP. KoS is debatable and there's always that one idiot tank that targets other tanks.

 

Stun/Knockdown? Don't make me laugh. Knights and Warriors have point blank stun as well as a running/charge stun. Beastmasters have a charge/rolling stun though I'm not sure if they have a point blank one either since I'm not too familiar with them. Monks have 1 stun and it can only be used while a buff is up and in close range. ONE. I can complain all I want about that, but the fact is that I can only work with what I have.

 

There are ways for melee in general to handle Colo, going bat-_- crazy attacking things left and right isn't one of them. Unless you're a sin. That seems to work well with mixed results.

 

That idiot tank xD

 

I can say that for assassins also. Like get off me lol.

[Leinzan]

LET'S GO CRAZY!!

 

ENABLE AND MAX ALL THE CLASS SKILLS DURING COLO!!!

 

THAT WAY THERE CAN ACTUALLY EXISTS FS PRIEST OR SORCS FOR PVE BECAUSE THERE WON'T BE COLO DEPENDENT BUILDS!!!!

 

 

WOOOOOOOOOOOO~

[RavenTDA]

I've been in the final round with every class but BM but then again there's not really that many BMs to being with so...
 

The death itself isn't bad, what sucks is how much time is lost. If you're running around while slowing getting killed for 1 minute then you aren't gaining many points.

This is when you let yourself die. I don't get people that suddenly try to run or pot at like 1k hp or less. You're going to die and all you're doing is wasting time. Unless you're trying to waste the OTHER player's time to try and knock them out when you know you're already safe or when the round is seconds from being over, I just really, don't get the point of trying to fight it. It's not good for you. You can also entirely ignore the person trying to kill you and kill others or mobs. I've done this before and snatched a few quick kills before finally dying, because it was faster to kill those then to let anger get the better of me and just trying to kill whoever is after me because I knew I couldn't kill them first.

Kill fast. Kill smart. Die gracefully~

[DatMONKey]

Monks suffer from not being able to stick to targets. Are best skill is our only CC and even when you pull it off perfectly the target will be sliding away half the time, making us unsure of whether or not our skill connected.

Knight and War have faster and more reliable KS skills than Monks. Our only saving grace is a much higher defense rate, but that is almost negated by our lack of self heal on top of potions.

 

In late rounds Tanks are priority targets of premades since they are easier to starve. Melee and Tanks are just not as effective at stealing the same amount of kills as ranged. That means they have less chances overall to succeed.

[LadyRava]

In late rounds Tanks are priority targets of premades since they are easier to starve. Melee and Tanks are just not as effective at stealing the same amount of kills as ranged. That means they have less chances overall to succeed.

 

This is a different issue and something that should definitely be addressed. If premades are removed colo will be more fun for everyone. It should be pretty simple to change how queuing works so a premade can't go in together. Instead of filling up one colo before generating another - create 10 colos at once and randomly add people to them.

[ZT0100]

This is a different issue and something that should definitely be addressed. If premades are removed colo will be more fun for everyone. It should be pretty simple to change how queuing works so a premade can't go in together. Instead of filling up one colo before generating another - create 10 colos at once and randomly add people to them.

 

10 is a little bit excessive. 3 should be enough, plus games can start sooner. If not, then I guess 5 is a good number.

[5344130512045108620]

And as a ranged who do I hate in Round 5 the most? Tanks. Nothing like being stunlocked the whole round.  I ended up in a round 5 once with only one other sorc and all tanks. The sorc and I only targeted each other the whole time due to low hp and the tanks also only targeted us.

 

When I'm doing colo on my ranger, the class I hate the most in Round 5 is sorcs. Nothing like having full hp first place with 5 secs left to go, then being frozen in place so you cant do anything and being burst down - ending up in 2nd or 3rd place. Tanks in final round is easy as long as you know how to deal with them (and as long as its not a premade). I ended up in round 5 once with only one other ranger and the rest tanks and ended up winning - probably one of my easiest wins.

 

As for first round, the class I hate the most is pre-buffed priests. Later rounds become easier as long as you take down ranged classes with buffs and while all other ranged classes are easy enough to take down, priests can survive if I am the only one attacking - I can force them to use caluceo but half the time I die after that due to other classes attacking me instead of the priest. I don't mind wasting the first minute of round 1 trying to take down those with buffs because its easy enough to advance to round 2 but many other players dont have the same mentality.

 

Tanks aren't usually a problem even if they are fully buffed. All you have to do to stop them advancing is to keep kill stealing from them. If I'm pretty much guaranteed into the next round and theres nobody else left with buffs ill start attacking buffed tanks - especially if i get poring dmg buff. There's too many people out there who refuse to make later rounds easier for themselves (and others, like me ) when they are already guaranteed to advance to next round...

Edited by 5344130512045108620, 13 August 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[Leinzan]

Well, I usually don't like to jump into this kind of discussion but might as well add my point of view.

 

I play colo on Rogue, Sin, Monk and if there is time (and feel like trying) Ranger.

 

When I lacked VIP, Rogue life was a pain... mainly because I didn't know how to play it, but once I found out the VIP gave me the moving speed I lacked on it things changed a lot!! I've won on it and even get to do about 25 kills per colo. However I gotta admit that chacing after those smart long ranged crowd controllers is really hard to deal with.

 

On sin, I've been surprisingly successful to reach round 5 once, however I usually get kicked at 4th and sometimes at 3rd, even at 1st yesterday (because I was stupid). He has no colo gear since he is still lvling, but I've got a surprising killing rate of about 15 kills per colo. It has a ton of potential, but since I go against anything and everything its hard to tell what I have a hard time with (except tank warrior, I won't attack a tank warrior on this char until I get more colo gear >___>). Untill I get randomly stopped and there pops a BIGASS number from no-where O____o;;;

 

AAAAND on monk, well, Im too much of a noob on monk, he still is lvl 34 and both Asura and Fury Explosion are on lvl 3 and 1, so my OH HOLYMOLLY I OWNED YOU DO MUCH strike is of 1.5k on crit. I've been learning to play with it and OH LOL I reach round 4 with it at times... the trick to it? Just run hopping nothing desides to attack me and see if I get lucky killing mobs or extra lucky poking a player... I've got up to about 9 kills in one colo, which still surprise me...

 

On my Ranger, at the only 2 times I've played colo, I once got 3 kills on first round and I didn't even notice when that happened, 20m range on attacks and positional lag doesn't bother me at all!! wohoo!! but it's also true that I died just as much. I felt like playing Zombie on some FPS because once a melee spotted me there were like other 3 behind it swarming me like my flesh was the most delicious thing in the world T____T

 

 

 

My experience so far:

Rogue life is rough, but they are tricksters with potential

Sin are strong, have potential and have a fair time in colo

Monks are a good laugh, I still wonder how my monk friend does to win with it, but its too early for me to say anything.

Ranger... ZOMBIEEEEEEEEES, HEAD SHOT THEM BEFORE THEY REACH YOU AND EAT YOU ALIVEEE.

[ZT0100]

Tanks aren't usually a problem even if they are fully buffed. All you have to do to stop them advancing is to keep kill stealing from them. If I'm pretty much guaranteed into the next round and theres nobody else left with buffs ill start attacking buffed tanks - especially if i get poring dmg buff. There's too many people out there who refuse to make later rounds easier for themselves (and others, like me ) when they are already guaranteed to advance to next round...

 

This guy seemed to be a problem.

Edited by ZT0100, 13 August 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[ChopChopz]

To me the problem is not that melee class are weak in colo, a tank can take down a sorc/ranger in colo 1v1, vice versa

However, ranged class can KS much much more easily.

 

How many times when a melee find a low hp target, and by the time you reach the target it is already dead?

How many times a melee attacked target till it has less than 20% hp, the target started to kite and a melee can only watch it being killed by ranged/dot or even mob?

Ranged class can simply KS everything in their range, while a melee has to walk close to the target and being kited all the time.

And yea because of the lag/latency/whatever bug, many times you cannot attack even the target is right in front of you.

 

 

Simply give a speed boost to all melee.

Edited by ChopChopz, 13 August 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[LadyRava]

When I'm doing colo on my ranger, the class I hate the most in Round 5 is sorcs. Nothing like having full hp first place with 5 secs left to go, then being frozen in place so you cant do anything and being burst down - ending up in 2nd or 3rd place. Tanks in final round is easy as long as you know how to deal with them (and as long as its not a premade). I ended up in round 5 once with only one other ranger and the rest tanks and ended up winning - probably one of my easiest wins.

 

As for first round, the class I hate the most is pre-buffed priests. Later rounds become easier as long as you take down ranged classes with buffs and while all other ranged classes are easy enough to take down, priests can survive if I am the only one attacking - I can force them to use caluceo but half the time I die after that due to other classes attacking me instead of the priest. I don't mind wasting the first minute of round 1 trying to take down those with buffs because its easy enough to advance to round 2 but many other players dont have the same mentality.

 

Tanks aren't usually a problem even if they are fully buffed. All you have to do to stop them advancing is to keep kill stealing from them. If I'm pretty much guaranteed into the next round and theres nobody else left with buffs ill start attacking buffed tanks - especially if i get poring dmg buff. There's too many people out there who refuse to make later rounds easier for themselves (and others, like me ) when they are already guaranteed to advance to next round...

 

In round 5 with mostly tanks and a few rangers/sorcs the tanks that don't focus fire on the squishy classes are not playing optimally. Round 5 will eventually become a kill rank 1 fest, but for the first half of the round it's all about easy kills. It's not really possible to stay alive when 3 tanks chasing you and be effective. Yes rangers can kite, but many of the useful skills that can be cast while moving can't be cast without building up concentration though a skill that can't be used while moving. Rangers are most effective when they can stand still and charge arrow for a few seconds then run around with double strafing. The easiest round 5 for me are full of squishy classes. I may get an unlucky frost diver - then 1 shot, but at least I'm not being targeted by every other player each respawn.