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Help with Assassin max DPS Build


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#26 9632130515120055620

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:09 AM

Again, where is the proof that 5/5 Shadow Strike is his 2nd best DPS tool? I've seen the in-depth analysis and it places Shadow Strike low -- it has a lengthy windup animation with which you could get two double attacks off in the same time (50%, not counting shadow fiend procs). Being used out of stealth doesn't matter at all except for PvP, and that's a one time usage thing. Having Shadow Armor on such a low cooldown is incredible not just for leveling, but for raids too. It's a godsend to have it as available as much as possible. For instance, you can shadow armor every single one of RM's hadoukens thrown at you, and it's amazing for any AoEs you're unable to escape.

 

You can get a great build without SS and have points left over to utilize, this is what I've been rolling with: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

 

Shadow Fang's usage is very low and situational, but I like having the one point in it just for the situations that arise where I really need it (aka pulling mobs off priests). I'm still hoping one day they make it so PW can apply from Shadow Fang... a man can dream.


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 20 August 2013 - 03:10 AM.

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#27 SparklingLimeade

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:50 AM

 But you have colo gear that raises your def rate quite a bit. In my experience its much less dmg reduction.

 

i6XwPUA.jpg

 

Still less damage than if I had my gear on and no SA. And the difference between crappy gear and Colo is a lot smaller than the difference between crap gear and naked. Having fun with science though.

 

(not counting shadow fiend procs)

 

22% damage * 12% activation rate = 2.64% damage per generator.

 

You can get a great build without SS and have points left over to utilize, this is what I've been rolling with: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

 

I have wondered about the overall effectiveness of SS. Lately I've mostly been using it to make sure I always have enough points to use shadow explosion within a second or two of cooldown. Compared to your build all I did different was -2 each deadly blow/combo training and -1 MoG so I don't feel I lost much at all. Now I want a controlled damage test to see if using SS on cooldown changes overall DPS definitively.


Edited by SparklingLimeade, 20 August 2013 - 03:51 AM.

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#28 7473130511053806230

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:05 AM

I've been seriously thinking about rerolling to drop SS down to level 1, it's DPS output isn't that great, and just spamming double attack does more damage. The only thing it's good for is that it'll generate 3 and sometimes 4 combo points which helps me get to my DB or SE faster. Once you hit end game, my build(with full buffs in raids) gives me close to 1k double attacks on crits (2 hits so 2k total) and more if shadow fiend procs. Whereas if SS crits, best it'll do is 2.5k over 3 hits with it's annoyingly long animation and 18-20s cooldown. 

 

Also, i'm OCD so I don't like using SS if i have more than 1 combo point already, because i don't want to waste it so i let my double attacks finish the rotation before using it again on the next rotation... So yea. I think the extra points going into Dark Illusion / SA (for ksing colo :3 hehe) would be a much better investment... 


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#29 Leinzan

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:45 AM

I won't denny any of your ideas but allow me to place my experience with «Shadow Strike» in both PvP and PvE.

 

For PvE during the lvling I've been using 4 skill rotations to kill my targets:

Hide -> Shadow Strike -> Double Attack * 2 -> Shadow Explosion

Shadow Armor -> Hide -> Dark Illusion -> Double Attack * 4 -> Deadly Blow

Hide -> Shadow Strike -> Double Attack * 2 -> Shadow Explosion

Hide -> Dark Illusion -> Double Attack runs away from target -> Dagger Throw -> Grimtooth -> Shadow Assault -> Double Attack -> Deadly Blow

repeats (btw, its one per mob, and fighting isolated targets)

 

Last one is my favorite, using this rotation has allowed me to kill up to 20 targets without taking breaks to rest (or resting no more than once), minimizing damange and taking account of the cooldowns.

The problem is that now I have too much food and I'm not even a chef (heck I rarely even use pots).

 

Sometimes to ensure my safety I use this one:

Hide -> Shadow Strike -> Shadow Assault -> Double Attack * 2 -> Shadow Explosion

Shadow Armor -> Hide -> Dark Illusion -> Double Attack * 4 -> Deadly Blow

Hide -> Dark Illusion -> Double Attack * 4 -> Deadly Blow

repeats

 

And when fighting minibosses I use this one:

Hide -> Dark Illusion -> Double Attack -> Shadow Strike -> Shadow Explosion -> Shadow Armor -> Double Attack * 5 -> Deadly Blow -> Double Attack * 3 -> Shadow Assault -> Double Attack * 2 -> Deadly Blow -> Double Attack * 2 -> Shadow Strike -> Shadow Explosion

Most minibosses end up dead with that and I didnt even spend 1/3 of HP.

 

On PvP I like this combo:

Hide -> Shadow Strike -> Shadow Assalut -> Double Attack * 2 -> Shadow Explosion

 

During hide «Shadow Strike» can proc 2k damange if not crit, almost 4 if the 3 strikes proc the critical hit (I chunked half the life of a target with that), is a very good KS tool or starting hit, it might stop you in place but unlike «Moonlight Drive» from Rogues the animation is fairly short, you can do it during hide no problem, damange is specially considerable from hide, it guarantees the gain of 3 combo points without having to chace a running target for 3, 4 seconds to «Double Attack» 3 times, you can close the gap with «Shadow Assault» right after and allows for a quick finisher.

 

I don't see anything bad with it at all, it also has a chance to proc «Shadow Fiend» which if during hide it might also have a double damange which would race up to 4.5k!! and 2/3 of that damange is almost instant!! animation is not 2 seconds at that, is a little shorter, maybe 1 and half.

 

The only cases I see a waste with it is when the target is unmoving and there is no need to have 5 combo points anyway («Shadow Explosion» is in cool down).

 

Another of my favorite combos on half lived isolated targets:

Hide -> Dark Illusion -> Shadow Strike -> Shadow Assault -> Double Attack * 3 (cuz «Shadow Assault» allows it) -> Shadow Explosion

 

Just for the note, «Dark Illusion» 1/5 «Shadow Form» means 1~1.3k damange on squishy targets, which is misserable compared to «Shadow Strike» potential, but unlike «Shadow Strike» it is instant and you dont have to be beside the target.

 

Edit: Rewritten skills because it was confusing with only the acronyms...


Edited by Leinzan, 20 August 2013 - 07:45 AM.

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#30 7473130511053806230

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:06 AM

SAs -> Hide -> DI -> DA * 4 -> DB

 

Hide -> SS -> SA -> DA * 2 -> SE

 

As nice as your rotations are, how do you hide after you SA?

 

Also your PVP rotation works once :s... and won't work again until the next round... At best it might secure you 1 kill... maybe... Whereas having a stronger SA which you will be using A Lot more frequently especially in colo is a much better choice. You can always follow up your SA with your SS to build the combo points so you can snare the kill with your SE. 

 

Granted I have done SS out of hide alot (especially when SA was Broken T_T) and yes it is nice, but a guaranteed 1-2k attack out of hide in 1 hit, is a much better KS skill (SA) than SS which does 3 hits over time and yes, i've lost kills because the 3rd hit took too long to come out/hit the target =/... Oh and... People using AoE's are annoy and you have to get right up to someone to use SS... Good chance an AoE reveals you and cancels your hide. SA won't have that problem because you can lurk far away :3 

 

*edit Oh yes and now those stupid pets and their AoEs means if you get close you WILL get revealed ... (WP get rid of pets in colo please)


Edited by 7473130511053806230, 20 August 2013 - 06:07 AM.

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#31 Leinzan

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:46 AM

As nice as your rotations are, how do you hide after you SA?

SAs is for «Shadow Armor» and SA for «Shadow Assault»... I typed that wrong, my bad >=D!

... I'm gonna rewrite that

 

Yea those combos on PvP are cool and only usable once, however if your «Shadow Assault» isn't on Cool Down, «Shadow Strike» is still my fav to hit a target to get «Shadow Explosion» ready ASAP

 

And assassins don't have such big problem from being revealed... they are good outside of hide too >__> (and you could use a mandragora to slow your target too)

 

 

Edit: Well, thing is that «Shadow Strike» suffers of the same dissases as «Moonlight Drive» from Rogues, altho not as bad since it is still useful for the 3 cheap combo points, still I wouldn't recomend it using outside of hide on other than running targets while you have 0 to 2 combo points...

 

Also, I too like to use «Dark Illusion» more than «Shadow Assault» and «Shadow Strike» during hide, it guarantees a 1.3k strike after all, and 1 combo point, which then I can enhance with the «Shadow Assault» and happily onslaught targets on the ground, since I like «Shadow Assault» more for its teleport and knock down utility than the damange itself.

 

Hence my mental rule: «Dark Illusion» must be the first kill. «Shadow Assault» will give me the second.


Edited by Leinzan, 20 August 2013 - 07:06 AM.

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#32 Kylez64

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:47 AM

Again, where is the proof that 5/5 Shadow Strike is his 2nd best DPS tool? I've seen the in-depth analysis and it places Shadow Strike low -- it has a lengthy windup animation with which you could get two double attacks off in the same time (50%, not counting shadow fiend procs). Being used out of stealth doesn't matter at all except for PvP, and that's a one time usage thing. Having Shadow Armor on such a low cooldown is incredible not just for leveling, but for raids too. It's a godsend to have it as available as much as possible. For instance, you can shadow armor every single one of RM's hadoukens thrown at you, and it's amazing for any AoEs you're unable to escape.

 

You can get a great build without SS and have points left over to utilize, this is what I've been rolling with: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

 

Shadow Fang's usage is very low and situational, but I like having the one point in it just for the situations that arise where I really need it (aka pulling mobs off priests). I'm still hoping one day they make it so PW can apply from Shadow Fang... a man can dream.

 

Proof? Maybe read?

 

Shadow Strike does 44%. The only thing better then that is shadow explosion hence 2nd best dps skill.


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#33 9632130515120055620

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:55 AM

It has a long windup animation where I could get two DAs off in the same time period, for 50% damage. That's not even counting shadow fiend procs. Shadow explosion itself doesn't even come close to thief class' biggest DPS skill, poison weapon regardless. Just because it's a bigger damage number on the description doesn't necessarily mean it's better.


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#34 Kylez64

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:27 AM

It has a long windup animation where I could get two DAs off in the same time period, for 50% damage. That's not even counting shadow fiend procs. Shadow explosion itself doesn't even come close to thief class' biggest DPS skill, poison weapon regardless. Just because it's a bigger damage number on the description doesn't necessarily mean it's better

 

What you are missing is that hiding doubles and if you have good crit rate and all 3 crit I get 1800-2100 dmg per hit so x3 (Compared to the 1000x2 from a crit double attack). If your combo training procs with it that's 4 combo points 1 DA and Bam! Shadow explosion. So yes you could go without it, and comparing this with poison weapons is like apples and oranges. Its a DOT that wont crit. I have both maxed, (you can take a look at my build if you want here http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543) I think PA does quite a bit of dmg maxed but as far as SS is the 2nd best DPS skill maxed. PA is a buff you don't use in your DPS rotation.


Edited by Kylez64, 20 August 2013 - 12:32 PM.

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