41 replies to this topic

[RavenTDA]

I can't say I'm really experienced in Raids but my guild always has a shortage of players and we are kinda off the wall about things. So sometimes I think the "rules" about the classes having to be a certain way is a bunch of BS and why can't we just make up our own strategies instead of always following what someone else did or what we are told? Personally (I have yet to try this out) I think what was meant with the 10-person raid is to one of each class and then go. I'd really like to try this out someday and see how it works.

Rangers imo are the squishiest class of all and are going to be eating up a lot of time from the healers. I like Sins in my party/raids because they are tough and almost tank-like but have a really strong DPS. Ignoring them I think is a mistake. Rogues can also heal themselves unlike rangers and soon they'll be dealing some pretty nice damage with the update.

You don't always have to do things the way everyone says you should. Just the other day my guild 5-manned Bapho-N. We caught only one of the fights on tape though (posted in our guild thread). And we didn't have any sorcs or knights. It was Monk, Warrior, Sin, Rogue, and Priest. We aren't all full-geared, did it completely legit, didn't abuse kafra-shop items and had an unconventional party. I didn't find the Sin or Rogue a liability at all during that fight. The Sin also did an awesome job at tanking quite a few times and was one of the ones that finished off the last boss in the end.

Screw what other people are telling you. If they don't want you in their raid, forget 'em. Make your own, make some with your guild-mates, and if you are really having a hard time finding party members try a small party and put your skills to the test. You could even think about merging with another small guild so you guys have people to play with.

[7473130511053806230]

Honestly though, people underestimate DoT. Having every DoT in the game being active on a boss monster over the course of a 5-10 minute fight really adds up alot. I always try to have at least 1 wiz, 1 ranger, 1 sin/rogue as dps. Having the 2 tanks is just common sense, 1 to keep threat on boss, 1 off tank to agro/mass provoke adds. 2-3 sorcs for the burst damage/heal/res and 2 priests (1 for each party/tank). It's not a rule, it just makes everything easier. 

 

But yea definitely you're right about not having to have or to conform to "convention". We always run unconventional raids because we lack people as well for raids, we did a 8 man run today on bapho with only 1 priest healing, and 1 priest was in full battle build (no heals or sanct) and we did everything legit as well. We also took along a 4.5k hp sin (new 50) and a rogue. 

 

I think the "conventions" is just so you have the easiest/smoothest possible run especially when it comes to CoA Hard, but if you can run it with a different combination, then for sure keep doing it. Everyone Raid Leader has their own personal preference.

[Zimiraku]

I hate that elitest attitude.  It's the same reason why some of my own guild members and friends have had to redo their skill points.  Cuz nobody will accept anything out of the norm.  I've done a few raids, not culvert yet, just normal PVE and Baphomet, and to a certain point i agree that having ranged characters can be more advantageous.  But by the messed up unwritten rules that everyone lives off of, the only real class you need is Knight, Ranger, Sorc and Priests for raids, all taking up the role of Tank, DPS and Healers respectively.
 

Everyone else is a freeloader.

From personal experience, that "standard" party bull crap is just that.  Bull crap.  I've been a party with a standard(i main as a hybrid knight) and we still got our asses handed to us quite badly.  In fact, in most raids i've been in, almost everyone dies at least once.  Is it cuz they're undergeared or they lack experience, tactics and skill with raids?  Maybe.  I know for one i partied with a warrior tank who kept the boss targeting at the healers, so if that is the case then ti just proves the point i'm trying to make.

 

You can have the most optimal party in the game, but you're not guaranteed success.  It's more about how well you can perform your well to me.  I'd rather have an unorthodox party that's good than a standard party that's bad.

[7473130511053806230]

I'd rather have an unorthodox party that's good than a standard party that's bad.

 

Every raid leader's first preference would be an orthodox/optimally classed party that's skilled and organised. Failing that, they'd want organised/good players of any class. Failing that they'd want the most optimal classes. Failing that, don't raid.

[Quasko]

Nah it's not true you can't raid as meele dps. In fact... I see a lot of raids looking for sin/rogues. I'm a rogue myself and I've never had problems to get into raid, noone has ever told me "nope, sorry, go away, we don't want rogue". Only time I got... I could even say "bullied" for being rogue was at bapho h, not CoA, and it was ranger, knight, and... strangely enough, sin behind that. Idk... Just don't ask for invite if they have full meele slot. It's obvious raid needs different classes and i'll never believe they'd prefer to take 4 rangers as dps more than rang/wiz/sin or rogue mixed. 

[englishtealite]

[9632130515120055620]

Sadly it's kinda how DoTs work -- you want one Envenom, one Poison Arrow and one Fire Flower, and the last one is probably just Ranger since they're a safe pick and it's hard to screw up playing as one. Ranger has effective damage without DoT while Wiz and thief classes kinda need them to get their damage output really high. If DoTs could stack I'm sure thief and wiz classes would have an easier time.

Edited by 9632130515120055620, 28 August 2013 - 05:43 AM.

[7473130511053806230]

Rangers without falcon/poison cannot keep up threat with a sin/rogue with similar equipment. They'd probably fall behind sorcs too. Rangers are only picked because of a) Agi buff and being able to reach all targets from a safe distance without pause whereas melee need to move before they can engage.

[NuwaChan]

It is kinda is understandable why few pick Sin / Rogue. RM has a buffed AOE that hits the entire room, and it

does a lot of damage. Range DPS can leave the room and come back easier than a Sin. Range DPS can avoide the stuns better and are better at stunning and stopping Shadow of Abyss.

Edited by NuwaChan, 28 August 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[perseus1100]

sin can probably make the top damage among dps class, the disadvantage is that it's a melee dps and have to dogde skill from bosses.

 

And Sin have the most powered defense skill in all classes- casting every 40sec to boost defense rate 50% for 10sec.

Also the crafting set for sin are vigor only (e.g. Hell's claw) which eventually can let sin use the skill about every 30-35sec.

If you time the boss's skill right(e.g. aoe), you will survive on most time while other dps classes always die before you.

To conclude sin have really nice dps and defend skill among dps class.

[Meconopsis]

I hate that elitest attitude. It's the same reason why some of my own guild members and friends have had to redo their skill points. Cuz nobody will accept anything out of the norm. I've done a few raids, not culvert yet, just normal PVE and Baphomet, and to a certain point i agree that having ranged characters can be more advantageous. But by the messed up unwritten rules that everyone lives off of, the only real class you need is Knight, Ranger, Sorc and Priests for raids, all taking up the role of Tank, DPS and Healers respectively.

Everyone else is a freeloader.

From personal experience, that "standard" party bull crap is just that. Bull crap. I've been a party with a standard(i main as a hybrid knight) and we still got our asses handed to us quite badly. In fact, in most raids i've been in, almost everyone dies at least once. Is it cuz they're undergeared or they lack experience, tactics and skill with raids? Maybe. I know for one i partied with a warrior tank who kept the boss targeting at the healers, so if that is the case then ti just proves the point i'm trying to make.

You can have the most optimal party in the game, but you're not guaranteed success. It's more about how well you can perform your well to me. I'd rather have an unorthodox party that's good than a standard party that's bad.

I agree but by standard or optimal party that is including the players able to effectively play and understand their class.

Then again it's true that a party would rather have a knight tank and warrior tank than a BM or Monk tank.

[KuroHono]

Rangers without falcon/poison cannot keep up threat with a sin/rogue with similar equipment. They'd probably fall behind sorcs too. Rangers are only picked because of a) Agi buff and being able to reach all targets from a safe distance without pause whereas melee need to move before they can engage.

 

So you are saying that Rangers are useless without those right? Why don't you take a look at what a sin has and a ranger has too.

 

Sins get a 30% almost permament AP boost. Rangers get a 9% AP boost at MOST and we have to use 2 Charge Arrows in a row to re-apply that buff. I've stuck head-to-toe with a sorc before before I was fully colo. You are wrong. You are not taking into account for casting times and the necessities needed for each class. Sorcs are also secondary healers and you did not take that into account. You are also forgetting rangers can use Wind Walk/Acrobatics to get away making your statement invalid.

 

And if you want to compare a class like that, crippling a rangers damage output like that, the only fair ground of trying to compare that is that you take away the AP buff because atmost a full colo Ranger ONLY nets around 2200 AP running 5 STC with a +0 bow, whereas Sins get a tremendous 30% which enables strong damage output. And you are also not putting Kafra Pots into this equation which you are making an assumption without backup facts.

[7473130511053806230]

Wait, what exactly does what I said have to do with ANYTHING in your post? 

[jellopyking]

i think it;s just sensible to add 2 additional raid slots (1 for party) for when the new race, noel comes in..

i mean i just assume because there's currently five starting classes  and 5 slots for a party, a "perfect" party would be a party with its members a class from each first class.. altho other combinations are out there, it'd be better to have a sorc + wiz combination, than a sin + rogue..

 

altho i'd imagine it'd be like this;

percy: LFM COA N> 2 tanks, 2 priests, 2 sorcs, 3 ranged dps, sin/rogue

percy: i forgot, 2 additional slots! LF 2 more sorcs

xD

Edited by jellopyking, 28 August 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[KuroHono]

Rangers without falcon/poison cannot keep up threat with a sin/rogue with similar equipment.  being able to reach all targets from a safe distance without pause whereas melee need to move before they can engage.

 

 

Wait, what exactly does what I said have to do with ANYTHING in your post? 

 

I guess you don't like to read what I explained from your statement

[7473130511053806230]

Yea, I was pointing out their strengths, What exactly were you trying to talk about? 

[9022130510134436293]

hmm.overall..sinx not that bad..i have say is..max ur shadow form n use it on right time..u wont die..n u wont die in hodouken too..another problem is dps..u nid to get high dps..so ppl will invite u..u nid around 3-3.5k atk power..so don be sad..ppl will invite u soon..