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[Rogue] DPS Tests and Rotations


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#1 mysticalre

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:39 PM

The patch changed Mark & Moonlight, so I tried testing out a few rotations on the raid scarecrow. If you dunno already the changes were:

 

Moonlight Dance

old: 110% damage

new: 150% Damage

 

Mark of Death

old: +10% damage to Rogues only

new: +10% damage to other party members, and an additional 10% damage to Rogues

(Yes, it's +20% for Rogues now)

 

Some were surprising, others not really, but instead of leaving screenshots around on my HD, might as well upload them for anyone else's curiosity:

 

Rules

- Used full CoA-H set for the HIT% bonus (so I don't miss)

- Didn't use doping (feels like it adds too much RNG)

- Used Crit buff, Screw Fin -_-tail, & Poison Weapon

- Stats: 2085 ATK // 50.73% crit

- 5 minutes of DPS per try

 

 

[#1 - #4 are with Poisoning Weapon 1/5]

Rotation 1: Double Attack + Deadly Blow

Why test? : This used to be the best "over-time" Raid DPS rotation before the patch

 

- http://i.imgur.com/mJkNsV5.jpg (374907 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/DcBpkl9.jpg (387885 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/2zXG1tR.jpg (371921 damage)

 

Average: 378237

 

 

Rotation 2: Double Attack + Deadly Blow + Moonlight Dance

Why test?: Does the new MD damage improve on the old rotation?

 

- http://i.imgur.com/GnJcTgL.jpg (375083 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/0PzTZ8f.jpg (385926 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/3ADt8MW.jpg (385276 damage)

 

Average: 382095 (+4k unbuffed damage over 5 minutes)

 

 

Rotation 3: Double Attack + Deadly Blow + Mark of Death

Why test?: Does Mark of Death's +20% damage improve on the old rotation?

 

- http://i.imgur.com/7dky0t4.jpg (389465 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/Y4YTR0a.jpg (392506 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/r7s5B5E.jpg (382473 damage)

 

Average: 388148 (+10k unbuffed damage over 5 minutes)

 

 

Rotation 4: Double Attack + Deadly Blow + Moonlight + Mark of Death

Why test?: How much extra MD damage does Mark add?

 

- http://i.imgur.com/Ac9wB6X.jpg (420029 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/3jLxamu.jpg (411687 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/WqKaxF4.jpg (416430 damage)

 

Average: 416048 (+37811 unbuffed damage over 5 minutes) > :o

 

 

[added 4 pts to Poisoning Weapon 5/5]

Rotation 5: Double Attack + Deadly Blow + Moonlight + Mark of Death

Why test?: Is it worth maxing Poisoning Wep?

 

- http://i.imgur.com/lxHolFO.jpg (425100 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/dGafHZg.jpg (421799 damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/fzJqf7y.jpg (424483 damage)

 

Average: 423794 (+7.7k damage over 5 minutes than lvl 1)

 

 

Again, keep in mind that these are all with unbuffed damage. With 30% doping, 20% doping procs & full raid buffs, the differences would become a lot bigger.

 

TL;DR: For PvE, Mark of Death + Moonlight are really good together now, but not as good alone


Edited by mysticalre, 29 August 2013 - 02:04 PM.

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#2 Chocs

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:31 PM

Thanks for testing!

 

So not only MoD gives "real" advantage to the Rogue after the patch, but to the entire party as well. Now I'm debating whether to max PW for PvE or DI for Colo...


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#3 Leinzan

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:38 PM

uhm, Im still in love with my build, so I can't really find anything to give up for MoD! >___> its really frusterating...

anyway, the SB and MD combo is way stronger than ever!!


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#4 yvra

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:45 PM

im planning to skill reset after i attained full colo gear, but now im thinking twice because of this. anyway thanks for testing.


Edited by yvra, 28 August 2013 - 09:49 PM.

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#5 mysticalre

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:57 PM

well, when you get a headache from having to pick out between (now useful) skills, that's a good thing

 

I actually dug into gangster's paradise for points to get all of these, I have it at 2/5 now... I've never tried this before, might get completely pwned but I'll let you know how (badly) that turns out after some raids >_>


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#6 yvra

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:45 PM

^ with lvl 2 GP, you can max MoG,MD,PW, MoD and with lvl 3 GP right?, this will maximize party/raid over all damage and maximize your DPS. - just my thought, but the other me is telling me how hard it is to have lvl 2 GP. argh. its really hard to make a solid build


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#7 Leinzan

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:45 PM

actually GP usage during raids is not as often as many might think.

if you get into trouble to need it too quickly then something is going really wrong...

 

I need it at 5 because I tend to go help people gear up in hard dungeons (or solo them)... and Im kinda crazy to do the tank job when we happen to lack one >___>!!

So, as long as you stick to raids and avoid all sorts of threat, AoE and damange in general, GP on low lvl (recomended at 3) should suffice.


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#8 xxalucard

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:34 AM

The only thing I could consider taking points out of is Dark Illusion, since the extra opening damage is mostly to make colo & duels easier.  But that's only 2/5 points.  After that you'd have to drain GP & dirty plan & mark of genocide (if you want poisoning weapon) which IMO is a bad idea-- even if the lower dirty plan is meant to optimize the mark of death rotation. 

 

For an optimal build I think you really have to pick one or the other, no matter how much a rogue may want both. 

 

What this update did was make it worth having 2 rogues in a raid.  This was something that a lot of melee dps  complained about-- how only 1 thief class was necessary for the crit buff and after that ranged DPS was optimal.  But now if you have one rogue that focuses Moonlight dance + maxed dirty plan + maxed smoke bomb + level 1 poisoning weapon, and another rogue that focuses Mark of Death + maxed poisoning weapon...then you will have a great addition to the raid's DPS without hurting either rogue too badly when it comes to survival or their overall build outside of PvE.

 

2 rogues would make both skills truly shine, because one rogue could take advantage of the poisoning weapon & mark of death dps bonus, while another rogue could max mark of genocide + moonlight dance + dirty plan.  Then the entire raid gains the full capabilities of a rogue's dps, and both rogues will do 20% extra damage.


Edited by xxalucard, 29 August 2013 - 12:35 AM.

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#9 KIyde

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:23 AM

I did some tests as well even though I was never against MoD and Moonlight dance, but the difference with full Adrenaline Rush is huge.

 

I wouldn't bother with Dark Illusion seeing as AoD is out, Hard Mode gears are better than Colo Tier 2 anyways. Going full Single Target DPS Build. <3 Now I need to recruit a Rogue buddy for my main raid group.

 

 

well, when you get a headache from having to pick out between (now useful) skills, that's a good thing

 

I actually dug into gangster's paradise for points to get all of these, I have it at 2/5 now... I've never tried this before, might get completely pwned but I'll let you know how (badly) that turns out after some raids >_>

 

This is going to hurt if you solo Goblin Leader and Wanderer to farm Oris the most, if you have a good healer in your party you won't need to worry about it too much. Of course, I guarantee you that you're going to run into plenty of situations where you're going to wish you had it but bleh, what can you do. I'm planning Sacrificing Smoke Bomb since I don't need MA/DI and that'll be 3 extra skill points, but I'm unsure yet.


Edited by KIyde, 29 August 2013 - 05:26 AM.

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#10 Leinzan

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:26 AM

Yea, I had been thinking that it simply is not possible to have both skills without badly hurting my build...

 

In my case I would need to sacrafice «Dark Illusion», «Rolling Cutter» and part of «Smoke Bomb» in order to have «Mark of Death» and «Moonlight Drive» maxed... (because screw «Mark of Genocide»), but that would affect my general grinding, pvp capabilities and the frecuency of my 1015 THOUSAND STRIKE, which I dont see as a good idea. Specially now that I may have to be grinding the WoE map for the guild skills.

 

Having a support Rogue might do the trick, but it is also possible to have both skills and still be a good Rogue (that was my initial build after all).


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#11 mysticalre

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:15 AM

yup, not having GP is gonna mess up soloing the most. I dropped pts from Smoke, Combo Training & some GP to get them all. I actually DO notice a small difference in Combo Training 1/3 and Combo Training 3/3... (I had it 3/3 for the longest time)

 

trying out this build now. It's a bit of a greedy build for DPS, but we don't have 2 rogues in our main raid so I have to lol

 

I'm considering dropping 1 point away from UD/crit buff/or Deadly Blow to get either combo training 2-3 or smoke 3 (for smoke MD). One thing that I didn't test was whether dropping 1 pts from these to get Smoke 3 & combo training 3 improves my DPS... didn't wanna waste zeny on resets


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#12 KIyde

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:41 AM

Yeah I been in ro2base for 2 hours and it's killing me right now. Seeing as I don't do Colo at all I might just really get rid of Dark Illusion > MA > Smoke Bomb, but then when WoE comes along... I'ma need Smoke Bomb.

 

Ugh. ANY DECENTLY GEARED ROGUES WANT TO JOIN COLLISION!? :B

 


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#13 Leinzan

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:02 AM

Im not interested in joining your guild but Im interested in testing the "Dual Rogue Combo"

 

I think that if I re-spec I would go with this build http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

I'll just leave "Poison Weapon" and "Mark of Genocide" to the Assassin's faction >___>

 

1 less point on "Deadly Blow" for a maxed "Mark of Death" sounds like a good deal to me, as ironic as it might sound, specially now that "Moonlight Drive" has been boosted...

 

Get real, Rogues are all about utility >=P


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#14 yvra

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:22 PM

Planning to go this build, here really dont want to take out the points of PW as i planning to go full str build to maximize it and nid lvl 5GP for soloing, so i take out the points of my DI and SB to have lvl 5 MoD and lvl 3 DP 


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#15 Leinzan

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:25 PM

I already re-spec to the build I posted, I can say that I already miss DI and will see a way to get it back somehow...

about DB ending on lvl 4... since I only use it when the combo bar is full... I really saw no difference between 5/5 and 4/5... there might not even be that much between 1/5 and 5/5... will have to test later...


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#16 Doocher

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:08 PM

I already re-spec to the build I posted, I can say that I already miss DI and will see a way to get it back somehow...

about DB ending on lvl 4... since I only use it when the combo bar is full... I really saw no difference between 5/5 and 4/5... there might not even be that much between 1/5 and 5/5... will have to test later...

 

how about this build? http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0 

u can put 2 points in DI / deadly blow >)


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#17 Leinzan

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:37 PM

how about this build? http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

u can put 2 points in DI / deadly blow >)

Uhm, thanks but Im not a fan of "Combo Training".

I've been thinking about giving up "Deadly Blow" just like you suggested there tho, although that might also mean hurting my overall DPS... or maybe not...

 

Maybe I will go with something like this http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

or go "Dark Illusion" 4/5... Im kind of the weird guy, don't pay me too much attention XD.


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#18 mysticalre

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:49 PM

now I wish I tested lvl 1 vs 3 vs 5 deadly blow before instantly putting it at 5... damn it lol

 

well if GP lvl 2 fails, guess I know what to test next


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#19 Leinzan

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:01 PM

I could give you a rough estimate of "Deadly Blow"

 

On colo, the last piece I got was the weapon (because I went for "cheapest first" rule), and weapon by itself gives a +8% or so damange, about the same you get per each combo point on DB.

 

The highest strike I did back then was of 2.4k on squishy targets, maxed DB with max combo points.

Now the highest I do is 3k on squishy targets, maxed DB with maxed combo points and colo weapon...

so... about another 600 damange... which is notorious...

 

basicaly, doing a 1/5 DB with maxed combo points is virtually the same as doing a 5/5 DB with 4/5 combo points. (if you want to test without reseting)


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#20 KIyde

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:31 PM

Seeing as I don't Colo, I dumped Smoke Bomb. Doing AoD tonight, I'll see how that works out for me.


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#21 SparklingLimeade

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:24 PM

I decided a long time ago that dumping Deadly Blow was a good option for Assassins. Your combo mastery does mean you can use Deadly Blow more than sins even now that MD is useful but your other skills are also very good compared to the 2% per level DB gives.


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#22 Leinzan

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:45 AM

I decided a long time ago that dumping Deadly Blow was a good option for Assassins. Your combo mastery does mean you can use Deadly Blow more than sins even now that MD is useful but your other skills are also very good compared to the 2% per level DB gives.

Yea, I've been considering that, doing a 5/5 combo pointer 1/5 «Deadly Blow» its technically the same as doing a 4/5 combo pointer 5/5 DB. Playing Assassin and attention to builds you actually were the one who recommended I realized this is true. So thanks for that.

 

I won't see a loss in DPS unless I do 5 DBs at least, sometimes I've done up to 6 DB chains, but now that «Moonlight Drive» has the DPS boost and priority, «Crescent Moon» saves my companion's and my ass from dangerous adds, «Gangster Paradise» recovers my HP and eases up the healer's work, my pot consumption and allows me to solo even bosses in hard mode, DB loses a ton of priority when it comes to using those 5/5 combo points.


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#23 foxfight

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:41 AM

Aah, gotta love the rogue community. You guys just saved me a bunch in skill reset scrolls.


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#24 Velouce

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

Lol. 2 month ago I sent a ticket with detailed informations about how useless MoD and MD are, and look what happened. Actually makes me want to come back, also the new sin lookings make me want to start a new character. Is it still true you need to run CoA like 10 times to be able to solbe ther quests required to enter AoD?


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#25 mysticalre

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

Lol. 2 month ago I sent a ticket with detailed informations about how useless MoD and MD are, and look what happened. Actually makes me want to come back, also the new sin lookings make me want to start a new character. Is it still true you need to run CoA like 10 times to be able to solbe ther quests required to enter AoD?

 

nah you need to kill RM Hard about 4-6 times


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