397 replies to this topic

[7473130511053806230]

I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible to do well. I champed 7 times in the second week of the Colo event after I bought my weapon. I can still regularly get to round 5 and occasionally champ, but I rarely do Colo anymore.

 

The issue is while possible, Monk doesn't have the skillset to realistically fight someone. If I start attacking a full health person in Colo, they generally have nothing to be worried about for a very long time, and if they're one of a variety of classes they can just walk away from me and cut my damage in half or more, simply by running. With slightly altered skills, Monks can become an actual threat in Colo/PvP as opposed to GFist -> I've got nothing.

 

A lot of the suggestions seek to address the Monk's issues in raids as well, giving them more utility to incentivize them as a tank, such as a party buff.

 

Fails to mention he is super P2W and has Ramort pet :3

 

Not everyone can put thousands of dollars into RO2 to win as a monk ^^

 

I agree with most of the suggestions here, I reaaaaally wanted to play monk because i had a champion in RO1, but when i found out what they actually did do... i was completely turned off Nowhere near the same fun. They broke this class in RO2.

Edited by 7473130511053806230, 30 September 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[NuwaChan]

So I just crafted for my fresh lvl 50 monk epic boots, gloves and a weapon and practically nothing changed except my hp, my monk does the same amount of damage

Am i doing it wrong or it's workings as intended? :/

 

What happens when you turn off and recast steel body?

[Meconopsis]

What happens when you turn off and recast steel body?

Nothing really happens. The increase of damage is very minimal regardless. When you turn Steel Body off you gain back 10% of your damage that you lost, you lose 200% of your base defense, and 35% of your base health is gone.

For me, with around 2.1k attack power, I can gain back around an extra 150 attack power, but lose about 20-30% of my defense.

Edited by Meconopsis, 30 September 2013 - 05:07 AM.

[DatMONKey]

Unless you crit a lot and don't miss, taking of Steel Body wont do much for your DPS.

[Leinzan]

uhm, «Steel Body» has a casting time of like 3 seconds, be it to put it on or take it off.

So the strategy of switching it on/off like a sorc emblem is not applicable... altho it would be an interesting idea.

[ChopChopz]

Yeah but heal pets are just for sustain. For situations where you don't need heals, DPS pets are useful and Crescentia gets more damage from their pets than Monks do. Crescentia kit also synergizes well with Pets.

 

I dont see your point here..

 

Monk is pure tank class and are meant to sustain.

 

Yes monk's pets might not be as strong as cres in terms of dps, on the other hand a cres having Lamort doing 6k+ heal will still get one hit by any AoD bosses.

 

You just cannot compare tank to dps.
 

Edited by ChopChopz, 30 September 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[Meconopsis]

But the point is... Do we really want this class to be dictated by pets? I can't see myself enjoying using pets even if monks are well qualified for optimal usage of the pet.

I mean, if the devs ever decide to make pets null and void in colo and raid bosses, then monks will go back to being that one class you never maybe once a day ever class.

[NuwaChan]

What I mean is that recasting forces a recalculation on the def bonus. Since Sehee just got new gear.

Sometimes I need to recast a buff to get the correct stats after getting the mayor plumeberg title.

 

My BT knight has Lapperman, and Lapperman -> shield fortress works ok in raids.

A monk with elder assassin would work out really well for the monk.

Edited by NuwaChan, 30 September 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Meconopsis]

Please, no more about pets.

I don't care about how good they are for monks.

I want to play the game, not be a trainer.

I want to win colo using my given skills, not throw around Embus or Mermaid around.

I think anything involving a class + pet to make a class better is just ignorant to balance. We all know pets bring an dangerous factor to the health of the game, talking about them being a way for monks to stay in the loop is just plain ridiculous.

[NuwaChan]

On another note, what if Gravity got rid of the 3 sec cast / seizure for steel body and instead had a 1 sec

cast skill that put the monk in a defense stance or attack stance. The def stance would be steel body, but the attack stance would boost movement by 70%, and boost str and int by 40%

Edited by NuwaChan, 30 September 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[HunkSurvivor]

if someone played Avalon Heroes the Moba game which is dead already, monk class could switch stances like Juajin

 

 

RIP Avalon Heroes rofl, Alaplaya games killed it so hard

Edited by HunkSurvivor, 30 September 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[ChopChopz]

Please, no more about pets.

I don't care about how good they are for monks.

I want to play the game, not be a trainer.

I want to win colo using my given skills, not throw around Embus or Mermaid around.

I think anything involving a class + pet to make a class better is just ignorant to balance. We all know pets bring an dangerous factor to the health of the game, talking about them being a way for monks to stay in the loop is just plain ridiculous.

 

I am just saying comparing monk DPS with cres is pointless.

 

I did not say pet help the balancing of monk class at all, just that monk happens to benefit a bit more from pets than other classes. This a slight advantage the monk currently has.

Again as I said I completely understand it might not be the way people wish to play their monk. And monk class ultimately need to be fixed (not by using pets)

But currently there are monks with good pets and they do pretty well so I just bringing this up and let people aware of it.

 

CC pets might not work on pets anymore but there are still dps pets and heal pets.

 

Even though I do not like the idea of pets at all, it is already part of the game and it will stay for sure(at least for PvE)

 

 

Pets might be nerfed but they still play an important role.

Pets are just as important (or even more important) than your runes/cards/gear/stat build or even skill build. This apply to all classes and not just monk, if you fail to realise this you would not be able to stay competitive in the game.

 

The future game content will be developed to have pets in mind, if you are going to future(or even current) high end raid with your 120cd and lv1 poring you will just suck as bad as an undergeared person and probably cannot even hold the aggro. (again not just for monk, this applies any classes too)

Edited by ChopChopz, 30 September 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Gamdol]

Fails to mention he is super P2W and has Ramort pet :3

 

Not everyone can put thousands of dollars into RO2 to win as a monk ^^

 

I agree with most of the suggestions here, I reaaaaally wanted to play monk because i had a champion in RO1, but when i found out what they actually did do... i was completely turned off Nowhere near the same fun. They broke this class in RO2.

 

Right, because Lamort affected the second week of Colo burning? I have a level 4 Poring, it cost me ~2000z. Quit blaming Pay to Win when you're just too lazy to farm zenny. Honestly, it's sad how much people will complain about very cheap advantages and call them P2W because they don't have them.

[DatMONKey]

I dont see your point here..

 

Monk is pure tank class and are meant to sustain.

 

Yes monk's pets might not be as strong as cres in terms of dps, on the other hand a cres having Lamort doing 6k+ heal will still get one hit by any AoD bosses.

 

You just cannot compare tank to dps.
 

 

My point was that Monk is not the best pet using class, which you stated earlier. That is all

 

 

I've done some raids where I don't need to be MT or OT and saw the difference between my damage with and without SB. The damage difference is pretty minor unless you crit quite often. My damage was quite nice, but I get the same result with SB on after dividing the threat. IMO Monk should simply not have any damage reduction. In fact reinforcing our body should further increase our damage output with SB active. Some might think more damage is bad currently our scaling on gear is trash and we will never out-damage Knights and Wars with AoD gear/sets.

[Meconopsis]

Fails to mention he is super P2W and has Ramort pet :3

 

Not everyone can put thousands of dollars into RO2 to win as a monk ^^

 

I agree with most of the suggestions here, I reaaaaally wanted to play monk because i had a champion in RO1, but when i found out what they actually did do... i was completely turned off Nowhere near the same fun. They broke this class in RO2.

 

Well... Gamdol didn't really say anything except winning colo a lot... P2W or not, that's the battlefield of Colo. Even I have trouble myself winning colo, although I got to Round 5 plenty of times.

 

Regardless, there are too few of us around...

[HunkSurvivor]

p2w monk = p2w BM

[Gamdol]

I didn't P2W Colo, I guess F2W is a thing people don't want to think about.

 

I could easily make round 5 without summoning any pets (especially now with WoE buff WTF OP), but if I summon my Poring I can play much more relaxed, and really put zero effort into the first 3 rounds.

 

That being said, it's that easy because full Colo gear and a good pet I farmed for. An intro level Monk has very low chances of making it very far without a bit of skill and a lot of luck. Without the damage bonuses, GFist is even less likely to secure a kill, and if the person doesn't have VIP the odds of catching anyone who runs away are minimal at best. The most annoying thing in Colo, to me, is that any time I get a target low, because I have 0 real CC and no slow, is they can stand up and start running. Because of how the game works, my next attack is almost guaranteed to not complete unless I have insane predictive powers (that might not even help with the range bugs). Almost guaranteed at this point to get the kill stolen, especially if they're at ~1000 health where a TSS won't seal the deal.

 

It's possible to win Colo as Monk, and even moreso if you're willing to chug through a couple Wind pots in the later rounds, but champing is generally about luck, the right classes in the Colo with you, and knowing scoring. Getting a 2 kill 1st place isn't enough to let you run and hide and wait. What I generally do if it's 'close' is pop a wind pot, and run where people can see me. Usually, if I can stay at the right ranges people can't sit and cast their big spells on me, I can pot through their damage, and save 2x Protection Ki/Flee for getting rooted or the last 20 seconds. I run where people see me so they look, see the #1 person, do what most people do and go after them 100%. If I know where people are focused, they can't steal 1st away by killing other people.

[HunkSurvivor]

i need to test blatte monk in colo once i reach 50 to smash master reds, im 42 and pots sucks at that lvl bracket

[Vanillarox]

On another note, what if Gravity got rid of the 3 sec cast / seizure for steel body and instead had a 1 sec

cast skill that put the monk in a defense stance or attack stance. The def stance would be steel body, but the attack stance would boost movement by 70%, and boost str and int by 40%

 

That's too much of a boost. Giving Monks 70% Movement speed and 40% STR + INT? That would make us closer to RO1 Monks. I do like the idea of a stance though (kind of like Aura blade and Aura shield almost).

 

Should we have an attack stance, I would imagine it would be 30% ATK power (consistent with Rogues and Assassins base ATK power increase skills). As for moment speed, it would be nice. I'd say give us movement speed if you won't give us a proper stun or slow. Perhaps 20%?

[mysticalre]

I'm no Monk expert, but from what I saw, an AoD geared monk gets out-threated by a soul linked AoD geared Ranger... so they actually need a slight DPS boost while Steel Body is ON.

 

Possibly remove the 10% ATK reduction? If not, it still goes back to either improving base dmg of skills, AGI on gear, or improved GF in some way, cause I think for the balance of the game, no DPS classes should ever out-threat tanks with end-game setups, even if Monks are the tankiest, they should still not get out-threated with equal gear.

 

^ maybe someone needs to test that to give WP some proof of DPS on threat meters of how Monks actually compare (e.g., Raid Scarecrow tests, or punchbag raid bosses like Aromine).

[Meconopsis]

Even if they removed the 10% ATK reduction our gear doesn't provide us enough raw stats to out-threat DPS classes.

 

Our weapon gives a minimal 400-ish attack power, and the severe lack of damage given from our combined STR + INT on our gear is because the numbers do not add up to be greater than say a warrior's weapon or knight's weapon. Even with AGI the damage output wouldn't be changed as much.

 

The main issue with our threat build-up is that we need a way for TSS's effect to remain constant without having us use the skill every so 15 seconds in our rotation, where a knight/warrior can refresh their DoT with Aura Strike. TSS is our answer to DoT, and it should of been the answer to how we can apply constant damage by making it higher damage output overall. I won't say having a DoT on monk is a good fix, because TSS itself needs to be fixed, or be stronger because it only effects our SKILL'S damage by 10%, which is an entirely different calculation rooting from say Raging Fist's 25% of our attack power and 10% of the 25% is added when attacking a TSS debuffed unit.

 

We also can say that since our weapon attack speed is quite fast or we do not really need to rely on AGI; we do put out a lot of normal attacks, but since we lack a proper attack modifier like Battle Tactics, where INT isn't really needed, the difference in our potential is that end-game, knights and warriors will always have great threat because that's the nature of Battle Tactics, it's a stat that does quite a bit, where AGI is just AGI, every class wants it.

 

There is always the option of boosting damage potential too. While warriors and knights trade some of their defensive numbers for more damage output, monks get a neat 30% attack power increase. While this is nice, monk's major flaw is that our main threat builder comes from having this skill up, so we can use G-Fist. An average G-Fist can do around 3000-5000 damage, or around 9000+ threat at end-game.

 

In my opinion, monks needs a rework. Like a full blown rework. I can't say that I can come up with one that can save the old glory that this class had since this is an entirely new game, but maybe it's time for the devs to rethink how they want this class to function in the future. Because class advancement or not, no future aspiring monk deserves to feel so weak.

 

I don't even feel bad telling people to not try this class out or telling them to never make a monk. Because I don't want to spare them the waste of time being a punching bag that can't punch back hard enough.

 

EDIT - ON A SECOND NOTE, I'VE COME UP WITH A POSSIBLE REVAMP IDEA TO MAKE MONK A BIT MORE WORTHY. This is pretty much what I wished Monks could be given the current state it is in and how it can be improved. So while it is my opinion and design fix, it's still a good basis on what changes the class could get without overpowering them.

 

PS - Names are weird, blah blah lol.

 

Edited by Meconopsis, 30 September 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[DatMONKey]

I'm no Monk expert, but from what I saw, an AoD geared monk gets out-threated by a soul linked AoD geared Ranger... so they actually need a slight DPS boost while Steel Body is ON.

 

Possibly remove the 10% ATK reduction? If not, it still goes back to either improving base dmg of skills, AGI on gear, or improved GF in some way, cause I think for the balance of the game, no DPS classes should ever out-threat tanks with end-game setups, even if Monks are the tankiest, they should still not get out-threated with equal gear.

 

^ maybe someone needs to test that to give WP some proof of DPS on threat meters of how Monks actually compare (e.g., Raid Scarecrow tests, or punchbag raid bosses like Aromine).

 

What was the crit rate on that Monk? The stat gain from Monk gear is abysmal.

[buntaltampan]

buff pls

such a pain to lvl up a monk

 

at least give us stun ;_;

Edited by buntaltampan, 01 October 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[Lukiner]

buff pls

such a pain to lvl up a monk

 

at least give us stun ;_;

 

during leveling you don't need CC but sustain.... aka heal

 

but still this stun would be very helpfull in PvP

[Meconopsis]

Oh no, more Sorc QQ threads...

Now back on topic, monks really don't need sustain because they have the best defense. But they need more offense to complement them because their threat generation is pathetic.