397 replies to this topic

[Lukiner]

Iiiiii will just copy-paste my message from other thread if you guys don't mind

 

Guillotine Fist: It's been said here ( http://forums.warppo...going-bug-list/ ) will be changed. It currently stuns BEFORE the animation and needs to stun AFTER. The skill itself also needs a bit more damage. A simple solution for damage would be to add Magic Attack (since Monks have MATK, but can't really use it) into the equation. We DO have MATK. If you don't believe me, have a look at the Monk stat window next time you're in-game.

 

buff/fix/rework GF/Asura pretty please ;_; also remove this charge time or at least give 50% more dodge/armor during charge time

 

Summon Spirit Sphere: The cooldown is 240/210/180/150/120. A Rogue's Dirty Plan skill is 200/180/160/140/120. Make the skills similar in cooldown, or decrease the required skill amounts for both to just 3 skill points, and make the cooldown 200/160/120 seconds.

 

two more things:

inscrease ammount of sphers to 5 and add visual shining spheres floating around monk depending how many he have actually

I MISS MY LOVELY/CUTE 5 SPHERES FROM RO1

if sin could get visual rework of his shadow form then why monk can't get small visual sphers?
 

 

I was INTENDING on suggesting a Healing skill, but even having full Colo Tier 2 gear, +10 INT runes, the best INT cards, and best INT Khara Title, and 3 slot costumes, our Magic Power couldn't come close to a Priest's, so any Heal type skill would suck, even if it used 100% of our Magic Power. I'd even say it wouldn't come close to a fully-buffed Priest Heal, even if we used 200% of our Magic Power, with the full Colo Tier 2 gear, +10 INT runes, the best INT cards, and best INT Khara Title, and 3 slot costumes.

Since a Heal skill would be ineffective in comparison to a Priest's, I suggest this:

Ki Translation: 3 level skill. Use up 3 Spirit Spheres increase VIT by 20/25/30% (since this IS a Tank class) for the entire party for a duration of 30 minutes. So, if you have say 600 VIT, 30% of that is 180. 180 x 6 (6 HP per VIT) is 1080, so 1080 additional HP.  It would make Monks far more useful than they already are, and would also make them a bit harder to kill.

 

vit buff sound good but imho dodge/parry/hit (pick one or all lol) 30minute buff/party would be better .... something like monk use his inner KI to aweken 6th sense/improve all senses for him and his party/raid member so they can dodge/hit/parry more frequently

 

but they also should have some kind of SELF heal sustain (flat heal or HoT) .... if monk magic power is not enought then why not just add % value of attack power ? 100%/100%/100% of magic power + 15%/30%/45% of attack power

or 100% magic power + ammount of curent spirit spheres

 

As for the two knuckles; we used to have two. They changed it, for some reason.

 

but why not just make it look like assassin weapons? they wear their claws on both hands while monks wear gauntlets/knuckles (not sure if I can even call this thing as knuckles/gauntles....) only on one hand lol wtf O_o
 

 

We also deserve a DPS Monk.

 

GOD BLESS YOU

 

this guy says good stuff

 

 

----------------------------------------

 

so how about this:

make first line of acolyte skills avaible for monk BUT with a bit changed form (they evolve after becoming monk and recive new descirption and way of working):

 

1. make heal scale with attack power and full magic power AND become flat or HoT heal

2. make holy light become monk melee attack (like KI strike/Holy Punch/etc..) OR make it become weapon enchant (something like posion weapon for thief) .... holy fists or smth? small buff for dps Monks

3. leave blessing as it is OR change it into the VIT or dodge/parry/hit buff

 

+ rework/buff/mprove GF/SSS/etc...
 

Edited by Lukiner, 09 September 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[Snowberries01]

A monk that can heal will be imba, because you have the highest defense, even better than BMs. The reason BMs get 2 heals is to make up for the lack of defense. You're basically going to render BMs useless as a tank.

(Honestly, I thought Monk should have average defense with heals, while BMs should have higher defense and no heals.)

Edited by Snowberries01, 09 September 2013 - 09:49 AM.

[Meconopsis]

A monk that can heal will be imba, because you have the highest defense, even better than BMs. The reason BMs get 2 heals is to make up for the lack of defense. You're basically going to render BMs useless as a tank.

(Honestly, I thought Monk should have average defense with heals, while BMs should have higher defense and no heals.)

 

Well comparing monk to BM is a weird case considering both classes are underplayed for their lack of value compared to the swordsmen tanks, whom both can heal, although Knight's heal is pretty... lacking.

Edited by Meconopsis, 09 September 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Rukaroa]

A monk that can heal will be imba, because you have the highest defense, even better than BMs. The reason BMs get 2 heals is to make up for the lack of defense. You're basically going to render BMs useless as a tank.

(Honestly, I thought Monk should have average defense with heals, while BMs should have higher defense and no heals.)

 

Not totally imba, but you kinda get the idea.

 

[DatMONKey]

A monk that can heal will be imba, because you have the highest defense, even better than BMs. The reason BMs get 2 heals is to make up for the lack of defense. You're basically going to render BMs useless as a tank.

(Honestly, I thought Monk should have average defense with heals, while BMs should have higher defense and no heals.)

 

Giving a Monk a heal wont change how people feel about Bears. Monks are desired because they have the highest DEF and a set of defensive skills to help them survive hellish encounters and scenarios. Even amongst tanks our merit is being the last man standing.

Monks are the only Tank class without a healing mechanism, but seeing how all of the self heals suck, except for BM's, I don't mind not having one.

 

@Rukaroa

That's way better than any heal a Monk could have.

[SOS101]

Monks disappoint me on this game. On ro1 monks were epic, guillotine fist everything, monks on this game is more of a tank which is kinda crap since there is better tanks out there then monks, only reason I don't have one.

[DatMONKey]

There are no better Main Tanks than Monks in this game.

[Meconopsis]

Yes it is true, Monks are the best tank for surviving crazy stuff.

[Leinzan]

But they are too good on that so their offensive suffers too much :V!!

[Rukaroa]

Giving a Monk a heal wont change how people feel about Bears. Monks are desired because they have the highest DEF and a set of defensive skills to help them survive hellish encounters and scenarios. Even amongst tanks our merit is being the last man standing.

 
Oh the many Bapho runs where this has been the case...
 
http://www.youtube.c...dcCpOpgt4#t=594
 
http://www.youtube.c...CYV3IxIbI#t=211
 
Well, Bapho is cake anyway. The only times I die in harder raids is if I don't get at least a Reno or I get stacked with DoTs. Really gotta get our guild up to do CoA.

[Vanillarox]

inscrease ammount of sphers to 5 and add visual shining spheres floating around monk depending how many he have actually

I MISS MY LOVELY/CUTE 5 SPHERES FROM RO1

if sin could get visual rework of his shadow form then why monk can't get small visual sphers?
 

 

As silly as this may sound, I think the reason they hide our spheres is to avoid letting other players know how many we have.

 

In a small way, showing our sphere count is a small disadvantage in PvP. The enemy would know what moves you have access to and makes you a slightly higher threat. Again, a bit silly but if I were to play devil's advocate, I think it just reveals some information about us that we may want hidden.

 

That being said, I think having the spheres hover around us would be a nice touch. Some one also mentioned the crackling lightning that used to spark occasionally when a Monk had steel body active? That would be fun to see as well.

 

However I don't wish to get off topic as this seems to be about our class balance first and foremost.

 

As it stands a Monk is the only class that cannot interact with his/her party at all. By that I mean, we can not buff or heal our party members. Often during a party when someone calls out rebuff, I just sit there and wait. Now while this saves me a bit of time in colosseum (as I can get right back up after death and jump into the mix), I can't help but think, why?

[Lukiner]

Not totally imba, but you kinda get the idea.

 

so I see that if someone wants to play monk solo (without being babysited by priest/sorc) he needs to get assassin elder pet + be alchem to not waste tons of zeny of pots? ..... kinda sad

 

that's why some kind of SELF heal would be nice on monk... heck lower his defence in exchange but give him heal = fair deal

[Meconopsis]

Well... That's why not many people are monks anymore...

Some people acknowledge the class has more problems than other classes.

Some bugs here and there, not class breaking but definitely popularity shattering.

In fact, for a monk main - farming is troublesome when our AoE is 3 hits instead of 10.

No heal skill is whatever - but low damage output due to gear scaling = hard time farming.

No DoT, no AoE - rely on pets to get the job done - as a monk I prefer pets stay in Colo so I can have some tools for a few seconds. Literally, in everything, when you rely on a pet summon to get crowd control functions of your character, something is wrong.

And the possibility of being DPS is thrown out the window, because we have no offensive stance.

[Rukaroa]

so I see that if someone wants to play monk solo (without being babysited by priest/sorc) he needs to get assassin elder pet + be alchem to not waste tons of zeny of pots? ..... kinda sad

Leave the alchemist part out and you have the right idea for self heals. Pots are expensive to make even as an alch.

As for defense, leave it alone. The toughness is fine the way it is.

Edited by Rukaroa, 10 September 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Lukiner]

Leave the alchemist part out and you have the right idea for self heals.

 

so tell me how I'm suppose to get assassin elder pet as low lv monk to enjoy playing monk without worrying about lack of heal? ask GM for set of DNA lolz? and no I'm not in rich big guild and this is my first character in RO2 so no free DNA from others

 

after I made my monk I was terrified&demotivated so hard when I realized that I have no heal and without steel body (I didn't maxed it when I become monk because I BELIEVED I can play without it before 40~50 lv... I was so wrong and now I feel like I'm playing some kind of hard disabled version of RO1 monk) I can't fight more then 3-4 mobs in a row without sitting on ground and eating food or drinking pots like mad while everyone around me (maybe except priest but they at least can heal themself) kill mobs/farm/etc.. much faster

 

maybe I should just give up on this "thing" that can't be even compared to good old&fun to play monk from RO1 and just make assassin or something else that I will enjoy

[Rukaroa]

Never said it was going to be easy. Heck, I even have "being a monk is suffering" and Kyubey as part of my guide.

Am I an M for maining monk? If being an M means I like taking damage and challenging the world, you betcha.

Edited by Rukaroa, 10 September 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[roseddesor]

They need to implement base dex on all Monks gear to make them colo worthy.

[Meconopsis]

Fixed/Added/Beautified the original topic. Praises and whatnots to Rukaroa, who devoted a good chunk of his time creating charts and theorycrafting about the current situation monks have now.

 

As for the current discussion...

 

Pets are almost essential to a solo monk's playthrough.

 

You probably will have to pick up an Elder Assassin pet or Lapparman pet or Willow Worker pet to even gain any form of healing.

Garbong or Mermaid for DoT/Slow.

Eremes or Undead Executer for Stun/Knockdown.

 

Tools like these which should be on a TANK class in general yet fail on a monk.

 

 

The Harsh Tank Reality Comparison

 

Knight get stun, slow and healing (lol) - Above Moderate Defense, More into Party Defense

Warriors get 2 knockdowns, and healing - High Defense, More into Parry and Damage

 

Beastmasters get stun, and healing - Average Defense, High Health Party Healing

Monk get stun (lol) - High Defense

 

[3111130524135330140]

Can you GM or CM at least take a look or give infos regarding Monk, cuz we seems to be totally ignored x.X

[eimichan]

Just thought i'd throw in some positive feedback ~

Leveling as a monk was really fun; tanking dungeons and bosses also great, never had any threat problems unless the dps severely outgeared me;

0 downtime farming field mobs once i got a decent amount of defense and natural regen, and i assume it can only get better as my gear gets better;

Asymmetric design's key to mmos since different people like to play differently, and yet the first post of this "balance" thread's little more than an attempt to turn the monk into a mirror image of other classes.

If people're looking for the experience of playing a warrior but with the name monk slapped on as an afterthought, i really don't see why it would be considered proper criticism.

Also my 2 cents on the topic, up front damage beats dots any day of the week.

[Nostus]

Just thought i'd throw in some positive feedback ~

Leveling as a monk was really fun; tanking dungeons and bosses also great, never had any threat problems unless the dps severely outgeared me;

0 downtime farming field mobs once i got a decent amount of defense and natural regen, and i assume it can only get better as my gear gets better;

Asymmetric design's key to mmos since different people like to play differently, and yet the first post of this "balance" thread's little more than an attempt to turn the monk into a mirror image of other classes.

If people're looking for the experience of playing a warrior but with the name monk slapped on as an afterthought, i really don't see why it would be considered proper criticism.

Also my 2 cents on the topic, up front damage beats dots any day of the week.

 

Monk has the lowest up front damage of all tank classes AND no dots because of its immense dependence on percentage scaling and having the weakest Attack Power Weapons, have you actually played a Monk or are you just pretending to have? You're not giving any positive feedback like you claim to be, all you're doing is going "bla bla bla, I've played a monk before endgame and thus I know more about the class then everyone else in this thread". Their is nothing constructive about your post or even helpful in terms of discussion about monks.

[eimichan]

stuff ~

 

No need to get passive aggressive just because my opinion differs from yours.

Just saying, being different is a good thing and the class is fun to play the way it is. That's positive btw.

Haven't said anything about raiding but as far as leveling, dungeons and the colosseum are concerned, there's no glaringly obvious issues with.

Anyways my point was that rather than trying to make monks into pseude warriors, bms' or whatever, people could easily just play those classes instead if that's the experience they're after.

[foxfight]

Thoughts on a skill similar to the rogue's Gangster Paradise? Perhaps a little tamer with a longer cool down, since monks def. is obviously much higher. Although I suppose the longest cooldown could be 120 sec. due to Summon Spirit Sphere. Could also require Fury state so as to not overpower it.

Perhaps I abuse the skill so often I'm just so used to GP that I miss it so dearly when leveling my monk.

[3111130524135330140]

No need to get passive aggressive just because my opinion differs from yours.
Just saying, being different is a good thing and the class is fun to play the way it is. That's positive btw.
Haven't said anything about raiding but as far as leveling, dungeons and the colosseum are concerned, there's no glaringly obvious issues with.
Anyways my point was that rather than trying to make monks into pseude warriors, bms' or whatever, people could easily just play those classes instead if that's the experience they're after.

Have you read the entire topic ? Cuz i cant see where you find monk will act like a beast or warrior. We demand agi gear, and more stats on weapon. You said you see no bug ? I cant trust you when you said you play monk, our GF suck as hell, long animation, and a crappy stun, and i forget alot of issues.. So please if you want to say that monk is so great, go make a post in acolyte section and share your opinion there. Cya.

[eimichan]

i cant see where you find monk will act like a beast or warrior

 

Well, the op's full of it for example, give us a heal like x class, give us better aoe like x class, give us a party buff, fair enough if you wanna pretend otherwise, your call, but don't say there's none of that going on ;p

 

You said you see no bug ?

 

I actually didn't say this at all, but i can address the issue, sure.

 

GF suck as hell, long animation, and a crappy stun

 

That's actually not a bug, but your personal opinion, not sure how you got the two mixed up.

You get to hit someone for ~6-7k and they can't fight back while you do it or use potions/anything. I'll call it great, you call it bad, people have different opinions :/

The only actual bug would be that our intimidate doesn't get refreshed from summon spirit, which is bad don't get me wrong. However if your biggest complaint is that an 8 second cooldown  skill isn't being refreshed  every 2-4 minutes, then you really don't have much to complain about and you're just looking for confirmation on your biased oppinion.