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[Pets in Raids] How to kill any raid boss with 2 players (w/ Vids)


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#26 mysticalre

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:09 AM

As of now some ppl are able to finish raids using stun and short cd pets! But not a majority of the playerbase can do this. If you want to get rid of all this pet stun, then make the boss easier to finish without using so called P2W! I am not against the idea of fixing the pet system, but doing that will make the raid harder to complete, from a casual player side who wish not to use a lot of P2W, they wouldnt be able to complete the game! 

 

p/s: from my noob experience, even with eremes and 4 embus with 25 seconds cd we still having problem clearing RM H!  :hmm:

 

Don't forget that the new Noel classes will and already do make everything easier. It will take maybe a couple of weeks until people who main their Noels will catch up. I agree that the fights are a bit overtuned with old raid compositions, but I believe AoD was designed with Noel classes in mind, which we didn't have until now.

 

Soulmaker buffs and links give completely insane DPS - Crescentias give 10% (relative) bonus armor, and reduced boss damage by a flat 15% (correct me if I'm wrong). These buffs alone, along with titles and guild skills (e.g. the -35% hit rate guild skill) are indirectly a content nerf.


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#27 UchihaDave

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:27 AM

As of now some ppl are able to finish raids using stun and short cd pets! But not a majority of the playerbase can do this. If you want to get rid of all this pet stun, then make the boss easier to finish without using so called P2W! I am not against the idea of fixing the pet system, but doing that will make the raid harder to complete, from a casual player side who wish not to use a lot of P2W, they wouldnt be able to complete the game!

p/s: from my noob experience, even with eremes and 4 embus with 25 seconds cd we still having problem clearing RM H! :hmm:



100% agreeing with you
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#28 Ishvarna

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:42 AM

Whatever happened to the Strong Will buff that some monsters got if you tried chain CC-ing? It feels like using that buff to implement some sort of proration on the effectiveness of repeated uses of CCs would make it infeasible to completely lock down a boss without completely invalidating pets as a mechanic and pissing off everyone that's worked their asses off to collect these pets.

 

I understand that at that point the "optimal" strategy becomes figuring out how to time your CCs to avoid as much proration as possible, but you're going to encounter brinksmanship at any level of play no matter how well balanced or forward thinking the devs are. Ideally though, at least with this set up the bosses might have a fighting chance.


Edited by Ishvarna, 17 September 2013 - 07:47 AM.

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#29 HunkSurvivor

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:47 AM

pls remove pets from game khtxb


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#30 5566130505062844797

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:14 AM

Ahh, a drugger suddenly realized that their drug selling business (oooops sry - rat head selling business) was disturbed by pet system? :p_omg:

 

Make bosses immune to status effects? Why not making Graham Potion and Explorer Elixirs unusable in boss fight? :p_sick:

 

Tone down those crazy bosses if you really don't wanta make the game p-2-w. Anyway, this is a p2w game in fact, so please make sure those players who have paid can win it. :p_smile:

 

Yeah you paid for potions and we paid for pets. I have no idea why pet should be nerfed instead of potions. Just buz they are so cute? :p_laugh:

 

Someone should really start a similiar thread suggesting the company to nerf graham potion and explorer elixirs, :help:  so that a knight drugger with 70% defense rate and a bundle of 80% recovery potions(cd = 8s) can no longer SOLO the last part of the Rat fight. :p_swt:


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#31 Mehaperson

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:43 AM

Ahh, a drugger suddenly realized that their drug selling business (oooops sry - rat head selling business) was disturbed by pet system? :p_omg:

 

Make bosses immune to status effects? Why not making Graham Potion and Explorer Elixirs unusable in boss fight? :p_sick:

 

Tone down those crazy bosses if you really don't wanta make the game p-2-w. Anyway, this is a p2w game in fact, so please make sure those players who have paid can win it. :p_smile:

 

Yeah you paid for potions and we paid for pets. I have no idea why pet should be nerfed instead of potions. Just buz they are so cute? :p_laugh:

 

Someone should really start a similiar thread suggesting the company to nerf graham potion and explorer elixirs, :help:  so that a knight drugger with 70% defense rate and a bundle of 80% recovery potions(cd = 8s) can no longer SOLO the last part of the Rat fight. :p_swt:

 

Buffing yourself and disabling a fight entirely are two different things.


Edited by Mehaperson, 17 September 2013 - 09:48 AM.

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#32 StrawberriKiwi

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:57 AM

Ahh, a drugger suddenly realized that their drug selling business (oooops sry - rat head selling business) was disturbed by pet system? :p_omg:

 

Make bosses immune to status effects? Why not making Graham Potion and Explorer Elixirs unusable in boss fight? :p_sick:

 

Tone down those crazy bosses if you really don't wanta make the game p-2-w. Anyway, this is a p2w game in fact, so please make sure those players who have paid can win it. :p_smile:

 

Yeah you paid for potions and we paid for pets. I have no idea why pet should be nerfed instead of potions. Just buz they are so cute? :p_laugh:

 

Someone should really start a similiar thread suggesting the company to nerf graham potion and explorer elixirs, :help:  so that a knight drugger with 70% defense rate and a bundle of 80% recovery potions(cd = 8s) can no longer SOLO the last part of the Rat fight. :p_swt:

 

Lol. I pay only for cute costumes. :< Maybe I really should spend them on pots and what not. However, there's no point of staying on this game if in the end game everyone is required to have a eremes (as it is happening on SEA now). 


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#33 Ryvian

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:00 AM

Ahh, a drugger suddenly realized that their drug selling business (oooops sry - rat head selling business) was disturbed by pet system? :p_omg:

 

Make bosses immune to status effects? Why not making Graham Potion and Explorer Elixirs unusable in boss fight? :p_sick:

 

Tone down those crazy bosses if you really don't wanta make the game p-2-w. Anyway, this is a p2w game in fact, so please make sure those players who have paid can win it. :p_smile:

 

Yeah you paid for potions and we paid for pets. I have no idea why pet should be nerfed instead of potions. Just buz they are so cute? :p_laugh:

 

Someone should really start a similiar thread suggesting the company to nerf graham potion and explorer elixirs, :help:  so that a knight drugger with 70% defense rate and a bundle of 80% recovery potions(cd = 8s) can no longer SOLO the last part of the Rat fight. :p_swt:

 

If you can do a raid boss without taking any damage at all by keeping them stunlocked, you're not actually doing the content, FYI.


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#34 yuaki123

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:15 AM

Don't forget that the new Noel classes will and already do make everything easier. It will take maybe a couple of weeks until people who main their Noels will catch up. I agree that the fights are a bit overtuned with old raid compositions, but I believe AoD was designed with Noel classes in mind, which we didn't have until now.

 

Soulmaker buffs and links give completely insane DPS - Crescentias give 10% (relative) bonus armor, and reduced boss damage by a flat 15% (correct me if I'm wrong). These buffs alone, along with titles and guild skills (e.g. the -35% hit rate guild skill) are indirectly a content ner

 

 

With SM and Cres, the success rate would be higher, still it depends on other factors as well. I havent been able to go for RM H with a Cres or SM so i will not be able to voice an opinion here! But the game may be able to change. 

 

@Ryvian: No offences taken! At that time i have to say that the party was pretty noob, so I couldnt really comment too much on it  :p_sad: But yes I got your point! 


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#35 YoungLifeJunes

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:34 AM

Wow looks like Flyff raid experience.

 

I'm new to this game but I've seen this before in other games. If the developers take too long to change this, too many people will get spoiled, and rage when a nerf is applied. They need to act fast.


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#36 9632130515120055620

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:41 AM

Just trio'd Gearbaz and Entraion with 3 people.. lulz

 

Couldn't quite get it to work with RM, probably because there wasn't enough freeze spam going on lol.


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#37 UnknownBeing

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:09 PM

tl;dr

 

probably whining because they can't make much money out of selling raid runs to players anymore.


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#38 mysticalre

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

tl;dr

 

probably whining because they can't make much money out of selling raid runs to players anymore.

 

nah, that last thread got locked because at the time we thought doing this was an exploit. We knew it was easy to clear end-game raid bosses with like 2-4 people, so that's why it was pretty dumb when we said "yeah pet stuns are abusable," without giving legit reasons... so people got the wrong idea...

 

check out Strawberri's comments here about what's happening with pets and how people treat them in SEA >_>


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#39 StrawberriKiwi

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:32 PM

yurp. Nothing about not earning money cuz i myself do not have any time to gear myself up with pets or farm them to sell for zeny ;< 


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#40 Lestat5

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:19 PM

Lately, a few people have been advertising the use of CC (crowd control, i.e. stuns, roots such as freezes, and slows) pets in Raids. This was also talked about in other threads, but without enough detail.

 

The point of this thread is to demonstrate that Pet stuns and roots are completely overpowered, and to make a case that all bosses must be immune to any pet status effects (including stun, roots such as freeze or net and slows).

 

I have submitted a ticket to GMs weeks ago, and after messaging a couple of them in-game, they told me to create a thread on the forums, and hence this thread.

 

I was directly told something along the lines of: RO2 Developers currently consider stunning raid bosses a feature/mechanic, and are NOT considered abuse, and are acceptable because players have invested time in farming them.

 

Therefore, because pet stuns are not abuse, we want to demonstrate how to kill every single raid boss in this game with just 2-5 raid members.

 

Requirements:

- 2 Players (Preferably, DPS Classes)

- 2 Players with 20 or 30 second CD Embus pets

- Note: Other stun pets are perfectly acceptable, Embus is the best at the moment

 

We have cleared all of PvE Arena Hard #1-6, with no tanks and no healers (Except Einherjars, these require 4 pet summoners, we only had 2 online).

 

Here are just 2 examples that show how it's done with 2 players (I didn't have a stun pet - so my friend did the pet summoning, but didn't attack):

1. Gearbaz - Hard

Spoiler

 

2. Vadon Brothers - Hard (yes, even 2 bosses at once are fairly simple)

Spoiler

 

Although we've demo'd PvE-H, using this method, you are able to clear all raid content with less than 5 raid members, including AoD N/H, the hardest raids in the game.

 

What is happening in the videos:

- 2 players are rotating Embus, which is keeping the boss frozen in place

- The boss is unable to cast any skills/AoEs

- The boss is unable to summon any adds

- The boss is unable to enrage

- If a boss enrages (e.g. 7 minute enrage timers in AoD N or H), then it is held in place, and it is harmless

 

 

Eventually, the RO2 raiding scene will become stale. It`s fine now, but in the long run, it's going to hurt the game. No body will care about doing the bosses for real anymore, it will just be "hey you got stun pets? you're in!" Tanks will not be needed as much, and healers will be less emphasized, simply because any boss can be just immobilized and stunned forever. It's already beginning to happen.

 

A commonly suggested solution: Increase the pet cooldowns, or decrease stun and rooting durations

- This does NOT work. For example, if you add 10 seconds to the pet cooldowns, I will add another character to my raid LOL

 

A common counter-argument: People have worked hard for their pets, and pets will become useless in raids.

- This is NOT true. I can and will name you tons of examples where pets are still insanely strong and useful.

 

1. Rotating DEF buff/STR debuff pets to survive strong AoEs, or STR buff pets to meet enrage timers for example.

 

2. Here are 3-4 sets of summoned adds (Maya Purple's Andres: there's like ~10 or something) that are just perma-rooted, to the point where you can basically ignore them and focus boss. Even perma-rooting adds like this is questionable, but still not the point of this thread.

Spoiler

 

3. AoE pet damage (note: this is a level 1 pet without my doping buff (+30% ATK). Imagine levels 2-4...). Extremely useful (and strong) for clearing boss adds, or dungeon mobs:

Spoiler

 

 

The real and only solution: Bosses (at least Raid bosses) need to be immune to crowd control effects.

 

So whether you're a community member, a CM, a GM, or an RO2 developer, after seeing how ridiculously easy it is to clear raid bosses with stun pets, just honestly ask yourself, do you really think this kind of mechanic is beneficial and should stay in the game?

 

Whether you agree or disagree with this suggestion, please share your opinions and explain!

 

Again, a GM has suggested a feedback thread, so please try to keep the thread flame free >_>

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Wow so you really care about the game.. I haven't done AOD yet and yes WP should do something about this.. Also it just makes me think, are you guys  reporting this so that others won't be able to get the EQUIPS you got by abusing this? May I also suggest that they first remove all AOD eq first before making the raid bosses immune to stuns so it will be fair to all. I know you don't mind that right?

 

I know you got your equips by abusing this so it should be ok that your equips be removed first since its from abusing pet skills.. RIGHT?


Edited by Lestat5, 17 September 2013 - 08:25 PM.

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#41 KedahMai

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:34 PM

^^ Kinda agree to Lestat5  :p_smile:


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#42 Lestat5

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:39 PM

^^ Kinda agree to Lestat5  :p_smile:

 

 

Ofcouse its too obvious they already have their gear so prevent others from getting it so they will be the ones on top.. Remove all the aod eq from everyone and I'll agree that you only care about the game..


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#43 mysticalre

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:26 PM

Wow so you really care about the game.. I haven't done AOD yet and yes WP should do something about this.. Also it just makes me think, are you guys  reporting this so that others won't be able to get the EQUIPS you got by abusing this? May I also suggest that they first remove all AOD eq first before making the raid bosses immune to stuns so it will be fair to all. I know you don't mind that right?

 

I know you got your equips by abusing this so it should be ok that your equips be removed first since its from abusing pet skills.. RIGHT?

 

funny that you ask

 

Since you're so confident that we abused pet stuns to get our gear, no, I don't mind a fresh AoD gear reset at all.  Guess what? I am willing to throw away all of my AoD gear progress to get this fixed and everyone get a fresh start. But we both know that's not realistically going to happen.

 

At least we agree on one thing - that this is a problem.


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#44 Lestat5

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:33 PM

funny that you ask

 

Since you're so confident that we abused pet stuns to get our gear, no, I don't mind a fresh AoD gear reset at all.  Guess what? I am willing to throw away all of my AoD gear progress to get this fixed and everyone get a fresh start. But we both know that's not realistically going to happen.

 

At least we agree on one thing - that this is a problem.

 

 

 

Well ofcourse its the same scheme like what happened in SEA.. During the rune+10 glitch the same person who abused it reported the glitch when he got tons of +10 stored in his warehouse so  there will be no competition.


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#45 ODarksoulX

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:35 PM

Ofcouse its too obvious they already have their gear so prevent others from getting it so they will be the ones on top.. Remove all the aod eq from everyone and I'll agree that you only care about the game..

 

 

Ridiculous. I'm sorry for calling your post that, but come on, sure; they might have done so but really, really, look at the bigger picture here. Can you even imagine if our server's raids became not about people's gear, skill, class etc etc and instead about stun/root pets instead? That is a far bigger problem than a few players out of hundreds(possibly even a couple thousand) that got their "AoD" gear already by using their pets. Also, what about if they didn't use their pets to get their gear?


Edited by ODarksoulX, 17 September 2013 - 09:45 PM.

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#46 Haboob

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:46 PM

Well ofcourse its the same scheme like what happened in SEA.. During the rune+10 glitch the same person who abused it reported the glitch when he got tons of +10 stored in his warehouse so  there will be no competition.

 

Lemme guess we had the same glitch and the same thing happened, were all those +10 Runes wiped? CoA gear really isnt as big of a problem since you cant sell it i would say only found recipies should be deleted.


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#47 Lestat5

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:50 PM

Lemme guess we had the same glitch and the same thing happened, were all those +10 Runes wiped? CoA gear really isnt as big of a problem since you cant sell it i would say only found recipies should be deleted.

 

 

Yes it did happen here, haven't you noticed the time when there were to many people selling +10 runes? but I think it got fixed thanks to the guy who reported the bug after he made alot of +10 in SEA.. GREED IS GOOD


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#48 Haboob

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:54 PM

Yeah +10 runes for 2k each, i was hoping they removed the illgotten runes when the bug was fixed. A healthy econ is a major part of the game or at least i think so.


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#49 Lestat5

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:58 PM

Yes I agree with you and thats the same thing I'm seeing here.. Why report the problem after getting full gears? should have reported it during the first encounter..


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#50 wakkyz

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:20 PM

i  think its funny how there are so many people out there thinks we are reporting this "abuse" because we cant make anymore money from running people from rat anymore..or think we doing this because others wont be able to get any gears from AOD.  If we really wanted to be d*cks...we would b setting up a service selling AOD tokens for 15k a piece...AND YES I KNOW THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WILLING TO PAY US, and with those money we'll b getting all our member can get eremes EASILY and if u dont believe me try me. Considering we already cleared AOD H with 9 people without using stun pets, we would b carrying 3 people at a time ensuring us 75k zeny per run using stun pets, believe me... if we were to abuse these pet CC we would b taking it to a whole new level.

 

 

It is obvious how broken this pet issue is, and u guys can say we do care about this game because we actually do enjoy playing this game and would like to continue playing this game together, considering we are a old guild from a really old server.

 

p.s. i really wonder how this topic woulda progressed if someone from a different guild was to post it.


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