Suicidal Destruction problems, and proposed changes - Ragnarok Online Community Chat - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 14 votes

Suicidal Destruction problems, and proposed changes


  • Please log in to reply
274 replies to this topic

#1 Tofu

Tofu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Public Security Section 9
  • 3287 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:45 PM

*
POPULAR

mt8c.jpg

Let's get a discussion here as to what can be done to FIX the WoE scene by proposing changes to Suicidal Destruction.

Problems with Suicidal Destruction:
Extremely fast cast
Not interrupted by damage
150k+ AoE damage in WoE, and not reduced by racial reductions
Damage is almost completely unreliant on gear. Damage of 100k+ is possible with just NPC gear.

Normally, this would be balanced if it truly had a 5 minute cooldown. But everyone that WoEs right now knows that almost EVERY guild is running like 10-20 alted mechanics, run by only a few people, in order to bypass that cooldown. This makes WoE basically a giant mech war, and nothing else is needed.

kRO does not have this problem because they don't have people running around with 9 clients open in WoE.


Proposed changes:

1. Make SD affected by racial reductions (the same change Cart Cannon received)
+ reduce the impact SD has against players, making the "harassment" with alt mechs minimal
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

2. Make SD's cast time have a much longer FIXED cast time
+ make SD easier to avoid or stop, making it difficult to simply "spam" SD mechs all WoE
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

3. Make SD's damage split evenly between the targets it hits (like Rapid Throw)
+ Random SD's won't wipe out 50+ people all at once
- Well played SD's won't hurt against large groups, where it's most useful

4. Make the cast time interruptable by damage
+ make SD easier to avoid or stop, making it difficult to simply "spam" SD mechs all WoE
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

5. Disable Frontslide
+ make positioning more difficult, so alted mechs don't have an "easy way" to get cheesey kills
+ well played mechanics can still backslide for positioning
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

6. Disable Frontslide/Backslide
+ make positioning more difficult, so alted mechs don't have an "easy way" to get cheesey kills
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

7. Reduce the range from 9x9 to 5x5
+ reduce the impact alted mechs can have
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

8. Disable Speed Potions while in a Mado Suit
+ make positioning more difficult, so alted mechs don't have an "easy way" to get cheesey kills
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

9. Make SD's damage split evenly between the targets it hits (like Rapid Throw) and inflict Critical Wounds (or Vellum Flail effect)
+ Random SD's won't wipe out 50+ people all at once
+ still deadly in group battles

10. Reduced damage/effects the further away from the center the player is
+ reduce the impact alted mechs can have
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

11. After a suicidal destruction goes off, a crater will appear in the affected area. Standing in the crater grants immunity to SD until the crater disappears (perhaps a 10 minute duration for each crater)
+ SDs must be well placed, and cannot simply be spammed without consequence

12. Make SD affect allies as well
+ SDs must be well placed, and cannot simply be spammed without consequence

13. Make SD have a chance of failing, blowing up the mech only
+ reduce the impact alted mechs can have
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

14. Allow an item to be consumed from the affected targets to mitigate the damage (like Wizard Link + Crystal fragments preventing Kaite reflect)
+ reduce the impact alted mechs can have
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

15. Limit the maximum number of clients open?
+ almost completely eliminate alted mechs
- many people know how to bypass this limit
- has negative impacts on non-WoE gameplay

16. Make SD have a guild-wide cooldown
+ SDs must be well placed, and cannot simply be spammed without consequence
- Likely impossible to do, given RO's mechanics (no pun intended)

17. Give SD a 2 second cooldown after Frontslide/backslide
+ make positioning more difficult, so alted mechs don't have an "easy way" to get cheesey kills
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

18. Make SD affected by racial reductions, as well as damage increasing effects like Hydra Card and KVM weapons.
+ Reduce the impact of alted mechs, by significantly reducing their damage, without significantly reducing the damage players with proper gear can do
+ players playing a single mech are likely to have gear for it, while players playing 5 mechs are not likely to have 5 sets of gear

19. Make Masquerade Gloomy remove Mado Suit
+ give opposition an additional way to deal with mechs
- players playing 1 mech are punished just as much

...

9998. Delete mech class
- lol

9999. Make mado suits cost 1b and an mvp card as sacrafice
- lol

I know I'm not the only one that finds this mech war stupid. It's time the community spoke up, and got this fixed!

Post your comments or suggestions here.


Spoiler

Edited by Tofu, 10 October 2013 - 09:29 PM.

  • 25

#2 michaeleeli

michaeleeli

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2784 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Yggdrasil/Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:52 PM

http://forums.warppo...nd-suggestions/

 

But I do agree a lot with this. Of course there are a lot of counters to it and a fast reacting guild can deal with it easily. But the problem is, not everyone has the same fast reaction and skill. A lot of people lag, don't see the mech in the midst of a battle, etc, it can be generally said that it's easy to pull off most of the time because people aren't paying 100% attention while playing with 200% skill. 

 

Thus instead of making it potentially useless by surviving it like surviving a gfist (from #1 and #3) I think #2 is great to accommodate the slow reaction of a guild. And if they still can't deal with the mech, well, their fault and their punishment is kaboom


  • 1

#3 Pred

Pred

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 200 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:53 PM

SD is stupidly OP, and because it's so OP, both major alliances are abusing the hell out of it, and why shouldn't they?  Neither side will stop using it because they don't want to put themselves as at a disadvantage.  One alliance has

 

I'd add a 4th change.

 

4. Make the cast time interruptable by damage.


  • 3

#4 Lapphy

Lapphy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1675 posts
  • LocationStafford, VA
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos Renewal

Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:58 PM

tofu's post +1billion times

 

 

Its not even about fast reaction times. its the fact that out of the 20 mechs that are sent at us, We can only stop 2, maybe 3 at a time, but the 4th or 5th SD (while lagging) can't even be stopped. 

 

KRO doesn't and won't solve this issue simply because they restrict the amount of clients one person can have. 

 

IRO is the one with the problem because we are lenient with the creations of multiple accounts

 

 

 

WAR has been so far removed from an actual game of skill, to who can CC/SD them the most. 

 

anyone can alt a mechanic and frontslide/SD.

 

Mechs make tactics and strategy completely null. 

 


  • 2

#5 michaeleeli

michaeleeli

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2784 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Yggdrasil/Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:01 PM

Or just disable frontslide, you get x10 more time to stop them


  • 1

#6 Tofu

Tofu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Public Security Section 9
  • 3287 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:02 PM

http://forums.warppo...nd-suggestions/


I would have put this there, but this is a discussion desperately needed by the community. This is more about letting the GMs know that we as a community need this to be fixed, and the proposals are here to give the GMs something to work with when talking with kRO.


And I'll put everyone's suggestion in the first post, no matter how ludicrous it may be!

Edited by Tofu, 08 October 2013 - 04:04 PM.

  • 0

#7 IlliterateGaming

IlliterateGaming

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • RO Fungineering
  • 680 posts
  • LocationYouTube & Twitch.tv
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos & Loki

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:03 PM

Wow! That seems really silly...
  • 0

#8 Kieri

Kieri

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2995 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:Nothing.

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:05 PM

I still think female mechanics in all that mado gear looks kind of cute


  • 3

#9 Sapphic

Sapphic

    Too Legit To Quit

  • RO Fungineering
  • 2660 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:05 PM

GMs don't read proposals for skill changes. Besides we only get stuff changed when we yell loud enough. (If gfist cooldown was a custom change, then that is a good example, because of how much whining it took to get it done, even if I personally think the cooldown is retarded).


  • 0

#10 Lapphy

Lapphy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1675 posts
  • LocationStafford, VA
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos Renewal

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:09 PM

Or just disable frontslide, you get x10 more time to stop them

 

 

then they just use speed pots. same difference.


  • 0

#11 Tofu

Tofu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Public Security Section 9
  • 3287 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:11 PM

then they just use speed pots. same difference.


But then you can still vacuum/fiberlock/despair them. It'll still help somewhat.
  • 0

#12 littlechiyo

littlechiyo

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1560 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Renewal & Classic

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:11 PM

I agree with this suggestion. 


  • 1

#13 GinaKay

GinaKay

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 790 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

Isn't that your guild though...? I was actually there o.o


  • 0

#14 littlechiyo

littlechiyo

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1560 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Renewal & Classic

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:13 PM

Pretty sure there are both. 


  • 0

#15 michaeleeli

michaeleeli

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2784 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Yggdrasil/Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:13 PM

And I'll put everyone's suggestion in the first post, no matter how ludicrous it may be!

 

Delete mech class. 

 

Make mado suits cost 1b and an mvp card as sacrafice.


Edited by michaeleeli, 08 October 2013 - 04:13 PM.

  • 1

#16 Darksorrow1234

Darksorrow1234

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2996 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaosss

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:13 PM

what about the stasis and howling behind the wall?


  • 0

#17 s3nd0

s3nd0

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1132 posts

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:14 PM

- Make cast time interruptable by dmg
- skills like frontslide & backslide is totally stupid & should be disable in any woe scenes LOL!!

personally i dont think theres a need to nerf SD's dmg coz tats like the only thing they can do besides all those barrier!

 


  • 0

#18 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 11063 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:14 PM

GMs don't read proposals for skill changes. Besides we only get stuff changed when we yell loud enough. (If gfist cooldown was a custom change, then that is a good example, because of how much whining it took to get it done, even if I personally think the cooldown is retarded).

*cough* We really do read nearly everything on the forums.


  • 13

#19 Tofu

Tofu

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Public Security Section 9
  • 3287 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:15 PM

Isn't that your guild though...? I was actually there o.o


Yes, that's my guild. So this isn't a "we can't beat our enemies' strategy, so NERF IT PLEASE" thread. Our guild used it, and it was absolutely stupid and not fun. WoE would have been so much better without those mechs, even if we lost.

Delete mech class. 
 
Make mado suits cost 1b and an mvp card as sacrafice.


LOL
  • 0

#20 chrisbam77

chrisbam77

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 643 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos Renewal

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:16 PM

 But everyone that WoEs right now knows that almost EVERY guild is running like 10-20 alted mechanics

 

I agree with the changes that should happen, but it is only around 3 guilds that do this^^.


  • 0

#21 D111

D111

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4543 posts
  • LocationOrlando
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:16 PM

I am not sure what the best fix would be, but I do agree something needs to be done.

 

We definitely have way to many Mech's being alted.

 

Both sides are equally abusing it us and them.

 

If I had any suggestion I would say similiar to your second option.

 

But I would also make it interuptable like G-Fist.


  • 2

#22 Kevin

Kevin

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 400 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

I don't think that's the only thing they do. I think that's the only thing they CHOOSE to do because it's so easy. And why continue playing a mech once your suit is gone if you can just die/bwing and alt+tab to the next client so you can suicide again? 

 

I would rather see speed pot disabled while in a suit rather than front slide/back slide. At least front slide/black side takes skill and gives people more reaction time. A mech can speed pot into a precast without even being soon because of lag issues. 


Edited by Kevin, 08 October 2013 - 04:17 PM.

  • 0

#23 Ambur

Ambur

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 3403 posts
  • LocationNevada
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Yggdrasil

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

 

A lot of people lag

The lag was so bad last woe2 I kept waiting for my character to catch up to what I was casting, where I was walking and etc. I couldn't respond to anything without it having delays for a good chunk of the time.

 

Mechanics really could use a nerf (along with the lag).

 


Edited by Ambur, 08 October 2013 - 04:17 PM.

  • 0

#24 Sapphic

Sapphic

    Too Legit To Quit

  • RO Fungineering
  • 2660 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

*cough* We really do read nearly everything on the forums.

 

Mmmmmmhmm.
 


  • 1

#25 D111

D111

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4543 posts
  • LocationOrlando
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos

Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

Isn't that your guild though...? I was actually there o.o

 

Yes he is in that Guild and the point of this post is that both sides are using way to many Mechs.

 

It isn't a blame thread on these people are abusing it or those people are abusing it.

 

Instead it is aimed to get the GMs to realize that the Mech in it's Current configuration is OP.


  • 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users