126 replies to this topic

[Xintello]

Now that's just plain ignorance. You think monk players have been whining the most?

 

We've been in the shadows for about maybe since the game started. We didn't complain except write maybe 1 or 2 topics on certain buffs, bugs, etc, LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS BUFF TOPIC. In fact, Rogue players complained the most. Assassin players complained even more. Hell, we see Sorc threads every so often now, since like forever?

 

Yeah, there are a few BM, knight, and rarely some warrior balance threads, but know what? They're better off then Monk. Monks do have it worst, so your comment is complete BS. It's not just 1 thing like what Knights or Warriors have that can be easily fixed, monk has a range of problems.

 

It was only after I made my topic about monks buffs that we started to complain a lot more vocally. It was because I am tired of the class being overall weak for what, since May? But I haven't said anything. I even posted my topic back before Pets ruined this game, when tanks actually had relevance.

 

So know what, call whatever monk players left here whiners. When you're still here and we're all off to better things, I'll have my last laugh.

 

Monks have it worst? Please they only have the single most defense out of any tank and are free to build full DPS while still being the highest defense out of any tank. I wish I could build DPS with no worries on my tank char without p2w -_-. You want monks to have high DPS and be highest tank? Play your role.

 

I hope I don't see monks get -_- done to them before Beastmasters drop hitting double to low triple digit damage.

[Meconopsis]

Monks have it worst? Please they only have the single most defense out of any tank and are free to build full DPS while still being the highest defense out of any tank. I wish I could build DPS with no worries on my tank char without p2w . You want monks to have high DPS and be highest tank? Play your role.

 

I hope I don't see monks get done to them before Beastmasters drop hitting double to low triple digit damage.

 

See your ignorance shows.

 

You think monk can build full DPS? With what? 400 weapon attack on their weapon?

 

Edited by Meconopsis, 10 October 2013 - 10:30 AM.

[Vanillarox]

See your ignorance shows.

 

You think monk can build full DPS? With what? 400 weapon attack on their weapon?

 

 

Also, highest defense. LOL.

 

You don't play a Monk, do you Xintello?

 

Go party with a Knight or Warrior. Have a Sorc (a common party member) use Earth Shield. Tell me how much better your defense is. Then ask them to tell you what their Dodge, Crit and Parry is.

 

Also in what world does Full DPS have Steel Body? Ever seen a Monk WITHOUT Steel Body try to fight someone? You're not lasting long.

 

Sorry, but I don't think you understand Monks, by any means. You seem to believe our defense is so grand. It's not.
 

[Ishvarna]

See your ignorance shows.

You think monk can build full DPS? With what? 400 weapon attack on their weapon?

Low weapon base attack is somewhat offset by the fact they get two stats contributing to their effective attack power. Granted swordsmen get something comparable at the cost of precious skill points, but their's adds to final damage not to actual attack power (a non-trivial difference from a game design perspective). Plus their boost only applies to critical hit damage.

[Xintello]

See your ignorance shows.

 

You think monk can build full DPS? With what? 400 weapon attack on their weapon?

 

 

Are you -_- kidding me? I meant you GEAR as in your don't need the tank gear. Disregarding you have faster attack speed to offset the lower attack on the weapon.

 

 

[Vanillarox]

Are you kidding me? I meant you GEAR as in your don't need the tank gear. Disregarding you have faster attack speed to offset the lower attack on the weapon.

 

We need Dodge and Parry just as much as any other tank class. Faster attack speed? Hardly. Doesn't make a difference. I get out threated by Knights easily.

 

Anyways, back to the topic at hand.

 

ETA on Monk Balance Patch.

[Meconopsis]

Low weapon base attack is somewhat offset by the fact they get two stats contributing to their effective attack power. Granted swordsmen get something comparable at the cost of precious skill points, but their's adds to final damage not to actual attack power (a non-trivial difference from a game design perspective). Plus their boost only applies to critical hit damage.

The bonus from 2 stats is effectively less than a warrior's STR by raw comparison. So... That has nothing to do with the fact Monks have nothing useful for it besides being a random additive damage factor.

[Xintello]

 

ETA on Monk Balance Patch.

 

After Beastmaster.

 

You want agi? Go slot it like all other tanks.

[Vanillarox]

After Beastmaster.

 

You want agi? Go slot it like all other tanks.

 

No thanks. I already slot AGI and my Crit isn't very high and gets reduced to nothing in colo.

 

I don't care about Beastmasters. You want to talk about balance with Beastmasters? Go make a topic or join one. Your line of conversation has no place in this thread.

 

We are hear to discuss Monks and THEIR priority on the balancing list.

 

I couldn't care less about Beastmasters. So with that in mind, either keep it about Monks or kindly get out.

[Xintello]

No thanks. I already slot AGI and my Crit isn't very high and gets reduced to nothing in colo.

 

I don't care about Beastmasters. You want to talk about balance with Beastmasters? Go make a topic or join one. Your line of conversation has no place in this thread.

 

We are hear to discuss Monks and THEIR priority on the balancing list.

 

I couldn't care less about Beastmasters. So with that in mind, either keep it about Monks or kindly get out.

 

Last I checked you made a thread to whine about why Crescentia needed gear fixed without understanding the issue at hand. They never had their own gear to begin with and monks do. They were using Knight gear and warrior weapons and they got no MATK in colo at all because they were also getting the wrong class stats. Their int also drops significantly in colo. This is not the same thing as what you're requesting for monks which is a complete rebuild.

 

I stack agi and get jack for crits on my tank too its something you have to deal with you cant be tanking and wanting to have DPS at the level of a DPS class.

 

Also how about you change the title to "Monks crying 2.0" instead of having it mention Crescentia.

Edited by Xintello, 10 October 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[Vanillarox]

Last I checked you made a thread to whine about why Crescentia needed gear fixed without understanding the issue at hand. They never had their own gear to begin with and monks do. They were using Knight gear and warrior weapons and they got no MATK in colo at all because they were also getting the wrong class stats. Their int also drops significantly in colo. This is not the same thing as what you're requesting for monks which is a complete rebuild.

 

I stack agi and get jack for crits on my tank too its something you have to deal with you cant be tanking and wanting to have DPS at the level of a DPS class.

 

Also how about you change the title to "Monks crying 2.0" instead of having it mention Crescentia.

 

I understand that they needed their INT and MATK fixed for Colo and their gears.

 

You seem to be unable to read, so let me repeat and make this as clear as I can.

 

I do not understand why there is suddenly TIME to edit the stats on a Crescentia TWICE, yet not enough TIME to add AGI to a Monk's gears (Monks being the ONLY TANKING CLASS TO NOT HAVE AGI ON THEIR GEAR). Monks are asking for a lot of changes, but some of them are pretty easy to implement. The easiest being some AGI so that we can have some decent DODGE/CRIT.

 

You obviously don't play a Monk so you have no idea about their potential damage, potential tanking ability and how their stats scale. No one is saying we want to be able to Tank a boss and DPS like a Fully Doped Rogue. What we want is the OPTION to be DPS, TANK or HYBRID.

 

Now then, if all you're going to do is continue to dumb this thread down to Monks QQing, I ask that you leave. I do not wish to get a Moderator involved in this, but if you're not going to bother to understand the purpose of this thread and continue to derail it, I will ask a Moderator to hide all your irrelevant posts.

 

You've been warned. Feel free to stay if you have something productive to add to this thread. Otherwise, beat it.

[Ishvarna]

No thanks. I already slot AGI and my Crit isn't very high and gets reduced to nothing in colo.

I don't care about Beastmasters. You want to talk about balance with Beastmasters? Go make a topic or join one. Your line of conversation has no place in this thread.

We are hear to discuss Monks and THEIR priority on the balancing list.

I couldn't care less about Beastmasters. So with that in mind, either keep it about Monks or kindly get out.

Unfortunately you can't have any kind of meaningful discussion about balance changes without considering the impact such changes have on the rest of the game. Monk does not exist in a vacuum, no class does in mmo, and insisting that any discussion treat it as if it does makes you come off as if all you're looking for is an echo chamber for your frustrations rather than any productive discourse. Of course if that IS what you're looking for say so, but at the very least don't try to lead people into believing its anything more than that.

[Vanillarox]

Unfortunately you can't have any kind of meaningful discussion about balance changes without considering the impact such changes have on the rest of the game. Monk does not exist in a vacuum, no class does in mmo, and insisting that any discussion treat it as if it does makes you come off as if all you're looking for is an echo chamber for your frustrations rather than any productive discourse. Of course if that IS what you're looking for say so, but at the very least don't try to lead people into believing its anything more than that.

 

I'm all for discussing the impact of giving Monks AGi in relation to other classes. But I could care less about what priority people seem to think other classes have over Monks. I am inquiring as to why Crescentias have been allocated time to change their stats, twice, when Monks have been asking for the same thing and it has yet to happen? This is not a time problem. It should not take long at all to change a variable, possibly a file or a #define statement.

 

There is a thread on the frontpage of this forum discussing all the balancing issues regarding Monks. If you want to discuss true balancing, go there. This thread's goal is to inquire as to why there hasn't been any time allocated to changing the stats on a Monk's gear, despite it being requested for literally months.

 

Is there a massive Monk revamp coming out soon? Is that why we've gotten no results and heard nothing meaningful? My goal is to find out what has been going on and get some solid time frames for when these changes, if any, are going to be made.

 

Now then, I will humor the discourse.

 

How will giving Monks AGI on their gears negatively impact other players?

[Xintello]

I understand that they needed their INT and MATK fixed for Colo and their gears.

 

You seem to be unable to read, so let me repeat and make this as clear as I can.

 

I do not understand why there is suddenly TIME to edit the stats on a Crescentia TWICE, yet not enough TIME to add AGI to a Monk's gears (Monks being the ONLY TANKING CLASS TO NOT HAVE AGI ON THEIR GEAR). Monks are asking for a lot of changes, but some of them are pretty easy to implement. The easiest being some AGI so that we can have some decent DODGE/CRIT.

 

You obviously don't play a Monk so you have no idea about their potential damage, potential tanking ability and how their stats scale. No one is saying we want to be able to Tank a boss and DPS like a Fully Doped Rogue. What we want is the OPTION to be DPS, TANK or HYBRID.

 

Now then, if all you're going to do is continue to dumb this thread down to Monks QQing, I ask that you leave. I do not wish to get a Moderator involved in this, but if you're not going to bother to understand the purpose of this thread and continue to derail it, I will ask a Moderator to hide all your irrelevant posts.

 

You've been warned. Feel free to stay if you have something productive to add to this thread. Otherwise, beat it.

 

First off I'm fully free to post in any thread I want.

 

Second off I already mentioned to you that they screwed up with the last fix and KRO and SEA never had this issue. But continue being ignorant.
 

Not only do I have a tank I also have a Crescentia. All they did this patch was fix our weapons so they are actual Crescentia weapons and not Warrior weapons with int. They lowered the attack and added matk. Stop posting thinking this is the same thing. Cres were originally suppose to have both int/str on gear and att/matk on weapons but for some reason our server got screwed up stats while the others didn't.

 

Monks want agi? Knights and Warriors want INT and Beastmasters want better scaling on just about everything. I fully understand how these tank classes work and you seem to think adding agi to monk equipment wouldn't shift the balance even more. Monks are incredible as main tanks and can take far better hits than Knights or warriors can right now.

[AhinaReyoh]

While I understand the desire for some help for Monks since playing mine has so far been nothing but an exercise in masochism, demanding an ETA on action for them is unrealistic.

 

For one, Gravity Korea is the one handling all the game work and they likely find little reason to give ETAs on anything except critical bug fixes like the trade bug or the recent super buffs. Warpportal probably isn't in much of a position to demand ETAs from Gravity, what would be their basis for such a demand? "A couple players said they NEED AN ETA NOW." I don't think that would fly. There was also an old post in the RO1 forum where I believe Oda or Heim was explaining why they try to avoid giving ETAs because of how the playerbase handles them. (Lose-lose situations or something to that extent.)

Edited by AhinaReyoh, 10 October 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Leinzan]

All I can say in the matter, is that Crescentia's stat change was the easest fix in line... and about this second fix? Well, they just screwed up and forgot to do that the first time...

 

Yea, nothing good to say...

[Vanillarox]

First off I'm fully free to post in any thread I want.

 

Second off I already mentioned to you that they screwed up with the last fix and KRO and SEA never had this issue. But continue being ignorant.
 

Not only do I have a tank I also have a Crescentia. All they did this patch was fix our weapons so they are actual Crescentia weapons and not Warrior weapons with int. They lowered the attack and added matk. Stop posting thinking this is the same thing. Cres were originally suppose to have both int/str on gear and att/matk on weapons but for some reason our server got screwed up stats while the others didn't.

 

Monks want agi? Knights and Warriors want INT and Beastmasters want better scaling on just about everything. I fully understand how these tank classes work and you seem to think adding agi to monk equipment wouldn't shift the balance even more. Monks are incredible as main tanks and can take far better hits than Knights or warriors can right now.

 

Look, I am going to address this one last time.

 

I understand that Crescentia gear were MEANT TO HAVE INT AND MATK. However, they did not and someone had to fix that yes? Someone had to edit stats, yes? I am asking why this simple procedure, which has been performed twice, has not been performed once on a class that universally agrees that they need a change. That is all. I get that Crescentias are just being restored to their original condition. I am upset about the time taken to restore them. Understand? Call me ignorant, but let's move on.

 

I know that Crescentias now have 659 ATK/MATK on their colo weapon now. Must be nice to have such attention to your class.

 

Now as for Monks as a Main tank. I often here people saying Monks are the best MT. May I ask why you believe this? Is it our +3% Defense over Knights or our ability to mitigate damage for ourselves over the course of twenty seconds? Compare this to the advantages of.. let's go with Knight. They can give their party +10% STR. This in turn raises their Parry Rate. Knights also have much more STR on their gear (not as much as our INT+STR). So yes, I will concede on this. Monks may get better Parry than a Knight, assuming there isn't some other variable I've missed. I'm aware that Wizard's Dragonology also gives Monks more damage and Parry. So yes, Monks do have Knights beat in Defense, by a little and Parry.

 

Let us now compare Protection Ki VS Shield Fortress. Shield Fortress is AoE, giving the party 25% Damage reduction and the Knight him/herself 50% damage reduction. The Knight cannot move in this state. Monks give 50% damage reduction to themselves and are able to move around freely. Furthermore, they are able to refresh the cooldown and cast it again, giving them a total of 20 seconds of 50% damage mitigation. That is swell. However, in a party situation (especially against bosses who wide AoE), mitigating damage for the entire party is very desirable. Furthermore, giving the party a 10% STR buff is also very desirable.

 

Now for gear scaling, Monks have just as much trouble as Beastmasters. Our gear is not terribly better when going from tier to tier. You may believe that our ATK Speed compensates for our lack of ATK power, but it doesn't. I am easily out threated by a Knight or Warrior with similar gear. Furthermore, I don't have AoE control beyond three mobs (if even that. Very poor damage on Lightning Crush) and I don't have any kind of mass provoke.

 

Monks also get abysmal Dodge. Compare this to a Warrior who gets tons of Dodge (that scales wonderfully). Warriors also get 70% Parry quite easily due to their high amount of STR.

 

So I ask, what gives Monks the advantage in main tanking? We have the best defense (by a little), can mitigate damage the longest and have some decent Parry. For DPS build? What is DPS build? Monks can max nearly every skill the game, at the very least put a point in most of them. We are only 17 skill points shy of maxing EVERY SKILL WE HAVE. All Monks are built the same, with minor differences in Summon Spirit Sphere and Flee. For Monk, if we went DPS build, our DPS is simply not good enough to be on par with.. anything. There is no DPS build for Monks, not a viable one. Our gear scaling is just not there. Our skill % modifiers are just not there. Our mobility and stuns are just not there.

 

Knights can AoE mitigate damage, can off tank (due to good crowd control), can buff the party and DPS (due to battle tactics and high strength)

 

Warriors can off tank (due to good crowd control), DPS (due to battle tactics, Aura Blade and Rage) and can buff the party.

 

My honest opinion? Warriors/Knights duke it out for best tanks. I avoided Beastmaster because I am not familiar with them enough to comment on their tanking advantages.

 

Now you can argue that the off tank will provided the STR buff and that is not the Monk's concern, but the point is, Monks have little CC, no viable stun, no party buffs and horrible gear scaling. I fail to see how Monk is the best Main Tank. If your definition of a Main Tank is someone who just focuses on the boss, providing no support outside of that to the party then yes. Monks win hand down. For my parties, I'd like a main tank who is flexible and can adapt to different situations. I just think Monks are too predictable and one noted.

Edited by Vanillarox, 10 October 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[NuwaChan]

While the situation with the monk class is bad and I would like to see monks fixed, I think the Devs made the correct

choice in fixing noel equipment. IMO bug fixes > everything else. The Noel equipment is was not set up the way the Devs

intended it to be set up, and there were bugs in noel equipment. From what I have been hearing, the devs are still in

the planning stages of fixing the monk class, I expect it will take several months before we see any changes in the monk

class. 

[Tsyrker]

The reason that Cresentia have their stats modified twice as opposed to nothing being done for monk is because unlike with the monk issue, the person doing the fix just look a piece of paper with the intended stats and just modify it back to what it was supposed to be. In case of the monk fixes, it's not a fix but a rebalance issue, they can't just be like oh here's some stats we just pulled out of our --- and it's now agi. I understand that the class needs rebalancing, but by trying to compare the two different cases and flipping out when someone tries to tell you so, it makes you look like a kid crying unfair because his friend got a birthday present on his birthday. Waits until it's your bday.

[Vanillarox]

While the situation with the monk class is bad and I would like to see monks fixed, I think the Devs made the correct

choice in fixing noel equipment. IMO bug fixes > everything else. The Noel equipment is was not set up the way the Devs

intended it to be set up, and there were bugs in noel equipment. From what I have been hearing, the devs are still in

the planning stages of fixing the monk class, I expect it will take several months before we see any changes in the monk

class. 

 

All I've heard from CMs/GMs is that Monk changes is currently in discussion. That's one long discussion. Much longer than the one about Sins and Rogues.

[Ishvarna]

[As a side note, replying on this tablet is a pain. So this'll be my last post till I get home)

How will giving Monks AGI on their gears negatively impact other players?[/quote]

Who said anything about it negatively impacting other players? If we want to go down that road of thought though, the necessary questions that need to be answered are "Does the extra AGI even make a difference in the state monks currently find themselves?" And if so Does the change make them too good at what they were meant to do? While these are questions that may seem self-evident they're still questions a designer needs to ask before any code gets touched. If you want an example of what happens when these question's aren't asked just look at MapleStory's shotgun approach to balance over the last few years.

But I digress. Extra AGI in this game grants more accuracy, dodge rate, and critical rate. Since I don't play monk atm and haven't crunched the numbers on what monk's current average %s are on these substats I can only speculate and what the exact impact of an increase would be. For now, let's focus on dodge rate and critical. Critical in a tanks case is good for helping you maintain threat so the impact from increasing that is likely minimal. When looking over dodge however I found something interesting and that was the Flee skill. If Flee provides a flat additive bonus to dodge rate then from a game design standpoint it is something that very sneakily scales in power with the Monk's base dodge rate from stats. To illustrate let's look at an extreme example say with a theoretical supermonk with a 70% base dodge rate and the flee skill maxed at lv 5. Such a monk would actually be receiving 66% fewer hits from the norm with flee active. In practice these figures don't hold up but the concept is the same that the effective hits received decreases non-linearly as base dodge rate increasesuote name="Vanillarox" post="1548351" timestamp="1381438958"]
Now then, I will humor the discourse.

Edit: Wow, this tablet mutilated my post...

Edited by Ishvarna, 10 October 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[wakkyz]

Only problem I see in monks are their lack of dps to catch up with threat, other than that monks are the best main tanks. I tank aod legit as a knight and I sometimes enjoy comparing my tanking abilities to other tanks and gotta say monks hands down in terms of defense % not to mention monks have 2-3k more hp than a knight.

The main tank is there to keep the boss busy and survive and nothing else, u want party support buff and -_-? Go play a support class, as for str buff, u have a warrior there as a off tank with ur battle order. U can't complain about shield fortress because its a unique ability where all class have, just like how a knight can't complain u can reset all ur cd with 1 skill.

So the only problem I can see monk having is keeping up the threat on the threat chart, it's a easy fix if they increase the threat % from 300 to 400% then monks are perfect the way they are.

As for colo? Colo is all about skill and experience my guildie mains a rogue but made a monk for fun and he won 4-5 colo straight, he can even post a screen shot if u want to.

So in the end it all comes down to which tank u looking for

For a boss that hits harder and survival a monk would win, but for a race against enrage timer a knight would win. I honestly think monk are fine the way they are if they raise steel body's threat %

[Vanillarox]

[As a side note, replying on this tablet is a pain. So this'll be my last post till I get home)

How will giving Monks AGI on their gears negatively impact other players?[/quote]

Who said anything about it negatively impacting other players? If we want to go down that road of thought though, the necessary questions that need to be answered are "Does the extra AGI even make a difference in the state monks currently find themselves?" And if so Does the change make them too good at what they were meant to do? While these are questions that may seem self-evident they're still questions a designer needs to ask before any code gets touched. If you want an example of what happens when these question's aren't asked just look at MapleStory's shotgun approach to balance over the last few years.

But I digress. Extra AGI in this game grants more accuracy, dodge rate, and critical rate. Since I don't play monk atm and haven't crunched the numbers on what monk's current average %s are on these substats I can only speculate and what the exact impact of an increase would be. For now, let's focus on dodge rate and critical. Critical in a tanks case is good for helping you maintain threat so the impact from increasing that is likely minimal. When looking over dodge however I found something interesting and that was the Flee skill. If Flee provides a flat additive bonus to dodge rate then from a game design standpoint it is something that very sneakily scales in power with the Monk's base dodge rate from stats. To illustrate let's look at an extreme example say with a theoretical supermonk with a 70% base dodge rate and the flee skill maxed at lv 5. Such a monk would actually be receiving 66% fewer hits from the norm with flee active. In practice these figures don't hold up but the concept is the same that the effective hits received decreases non-linearly as base dodge rate increasesuote name="Vanillarox" post="1548351" timestamp="1381438958"]
Now then, I will humor the discourse.

Edit: Wow, this tablet mutilated my post...

 

AGI does not affect HIT rate, as far as I know. I can give you an example of these stats. With the Mayor Plumberge title I have 95.15% HIT, 11.99% CRIT and 12.97% Dodge. I am stacking full +5 AGI runes on all my gear.

[Meconopsis]

Knights and warriors need int is not the same as monks needing AGI...

For all that is logic, you're comparing a stat that indirectly amplifies a skill and damage greatly while monks have no such skill that uses AGI, nor would it benefit them as much as Int does for the sword classes...

Plus 400% threat gain is a fairly good idea but relying on higher threat % covers up the other weaknesses monks have.

[mysticalre]

Though it's true Monks take the least damage, that's only half the story.

 

Being able to hold your threat is a big problem too. From my experience, Monks get out threated by (very good & geared) Rangers. If this isn't true, feel free to test and dispute it, but it's what I've seen when we've invited (geared) Monks to our raids in the past. I am not talking about Monks needing a DPS spec, I am talking about Monks in a tank spec not being able to hold threat

 

Calculations can only go so far. imo the most constructive way to give feedback is to show that Monks are just plain inferior. Why not just try to spend a day or two in the PvP Arena doing Raid Scarecrow tests, and prove that Monk threat is inferior?

 

Monks not getting attention since release is the 100% truth, and I know from what I saw that monks are worse than other tanks (I have a monk myself anyway), but when I read over these threads - I'd seriously recommend putting some tests into it to give indisputable proof that no one can argue against. yes from our POV (as active players), we know monks are kinda gimped, but you gotta show the inactive people (developers/staff) the same as well

 

I'd be curious where exactly monks belong DPS-wise too. I know it's the worst, but how much worse is it? It`s very easy to balance when you know "how much" help they need.

 

why not try this out:

 

- Do 5 minute tests, DPSing a Raid Scarecrow

- use a HIT set (2 piece unruned costume set) for >100% HIT for damage reliability

- Both players use the same-tier gear (colo gear is the easiest)

 

- then try these tests:

 

Repeat 3 times & screenshot the threat-meter:

Spoiler

- Monks with TSS Rotations

- Monks without TSS Rotations

- Monks with TSS before Asura only

- Monks vs. Ranger threat (unbuffed)

- Monks vs. Ranger threat (party buffed) <-- proves gear/skill scaling of gear with buffs

- Monks vs. Ranger (ranger is fully soul linked, Monk not - Tanks dont generally get SL links)

- Monks vs. Ranger (linked) w/ Crecentia Raw Tilt <-- further emphasizes gear scaling

- Monks vs Knight threat (unbuffed)

- Monks vs Knight threat (both party buffed)

- Monks vs Warrior threat (unbuffed)

- Monks vs Warrior threat (both party buffed)

- Monks vs BM threat (unbuffed)

- Monks vs BM threat (both party buffed)

 

- Change the rotations to whatever you want

 

Here`s an example of some testing back in the day of Rogue's MoD

Spoiler

OK DOUBLE POST FOR BUMP

 

so I re-did the tests, not believing my old tests, and it's the same thing over again. I tried to make my damage as consistent as possible, removing as much RNG as I can

 

My stats (if anyone tries to re-do)

http://i.imgur.com/iaItrld.jpg // 2094 ATK, 40.27 crit unbuffed

 

Rotation

- Double attacks till 5/5, then deadly blow

- deadly blow any time combo master procs

 

Rules

1. Use Explorer's Concentration (+7% hit so that you never miss)

2. Poisoning weapon / Crit buff only

3. NO Doping (+20% ATK/+20% crit is a huge inconsistency)

4. ONE AGI Boost potion allowed per 5minute test (to help MoD damage)

5. Use http://www.online-stopwatch.com/ to countdown 5 minutes per test

6. Screenshot when you hear the annoying ring after 5 minutes

 

Results

1. No Mark of Death

- http://i.imgur.com/ybMEYbT.jpg (363,980 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/E5hmkPy.jpg (364,827 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/V4ibYgH.jpg (372,515 Damage)

 

Average: 367,107 Damage

 

2. Mark of Death (5/5)

- http://i.imgur.com/AhvG1wJ.jpg (369,345 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/BVDcoN0.jpg (359,885 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/qOqOoSu.jpg (353,451 Damage)

 

Average: 360,893 Damage

 

I'm willing to say that this is basically the same, it could be just +/- 2 crits of a difference. If anyone else wants to re-confirm, feel free. It's totally lame and counter-intuitive to think that +10% damage doesn't help ...

 

This is NOT the first time I tried this - I did this before a few times, and it's always roughly the same, I did it over 10 minute periods too, so I really don't know what else to say. I like this skill, but every time I try it results say otherwise

 

The only thing I can 100% say is that with 2 rogues, it's a benefit if both have it

 

If you did 5 minute DPS tests for each of these cases, and posted them all on the forums, I'm really sure Monks would be looked at a lot more seriously than now.

 

The problem is, Devs have to do the testing themselves for what's good and what's not. By providing these tests, you are already doing most of the balancing work for them.

Edited by mysticalre, 10 October 2013 - 01:29 PM.