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#1 caelthar

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:15 PM

Hi sorry for posting again D:

 

i am a tank class at the moment, just trying to figure the rest of the skills I need before expansion.

More importantly whether I need to get prerequisites for the 2nd job skills.

 

This is what I have atm

10 Double Attack

10 Improved Dodge

3 Owls Eye

1 Vultures Eye

10 Concentration

5 Divine Protection 

10 Blessing

3 Heal

10 Agility

 

Skills/levels I plan on getting

10 Heal

5 Provoke

10 Endure

(Need your opinion :) Let me know if changes need to be made)

 

that leaves me with only 14 skills points. Where should these go? 

 

Also what 2nd job skills to get? I know faith im definitely getting. the rest?

Im thinking

 

Im thinking maybe 

Imposito 5

Gloria 5

Sanctuary 10

 

Need your opinion :)


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#2 caelthar

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:10 PM

I received expert advice (Ava) and this is what I have confirmed xD

10 improved dodge

3 Owl's Eye

1 Vultures Eye

10 Concentration

5 Divine Protection 

10 Blessing

3 Heal

10 Agility

5 weight enlarge

10 pushcart

5 provoke

7 endure

1 ruwach

2 teleport

4 warp

1 pneuma

5 cold bolt

1 Frost diver

1 stone curse

 

4 skills points remaining

 

 

 

 


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#3 AvalonEir

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

Well since you asked me in game, this is my skill build:

 

http://irowiki.org/~...AaodAdn2deBGA2f

 

I still dunno what I wanna do for the rest of the points. Maybe max AGI or get Freezing/Sandman traps higher.

 

Tank/WoE build.


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#4 michaeleeli

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:39 PM

Wow you got most of the basic ones I got. 

 

I wouldn't recommend Endure, they wear off really fast when mobbing (there is a maximum # of hits when it wears off), and it saves you a ton of points. I mean, if you're tanking as an SN, you won't need endure to mob THAT many monsters since you can't really and you die really fast.

 

Instead, get HP Increase Recovery lv10 since it basically doubles your potting heal - makes you survive much longer.

 

I love pushcart as it allows you to carry sooooo much more! And also it's cute (but for PvM it's not necessary at all)

 

Frost Nova is very good for mobbing, you can freeze a ton of monsters and let your friends finish it off. I got lv10 for that. 

 

Faith lv10 is necessary too.

 

I got Quagmire for PvP purposes, it's not really useful for PvM. Safety Wall is good for tanking MvP's if you can freeze their mobs, but takes ton of points, so it's not really really really needed. 

 

Hide & Stalk is really too fun to use. Not helpful for tanking, but I often use it to play with others or hide from mobs in high TI since you easily get killed.


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#5 AvalonEir

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:07 PM

It kind of depends. I have enough reducts to not die easily in TIs and I also pull ahead of parties so I find Endure pretty useful, and it does help with mobbing a ton despite wearing off after 7 hits (Flee and Quagmire help a lot here). Also since the monsters freeze right away to Nova anyway, I don't find potting to be an issue. It's unlikely for an SN to tank monsters that don't freeze. The main reason I have it though is for the Mdef bonus (WoE). But yea Inc HP recovery is decent skill if you think you really need it.


Edited by AvalonEir, 11 October 2013 - 06:21 PM.

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#6 michaeleeli

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:24 PM

If you really like Endure effect, instead of having to recast Endure every time after a few short times, use Anodyne. A lot of people actually just throw them away from woe investment, but there is a lot out there (I have almost 10k+ stocked up). If you're getting Pushcart, that's even more Anodynes to carry. If you're getting a skill specifically for TI, why not just use a cheap item to replace since you won't need it after 150? More skill points for others =)

 

Potting is necessary for high TI. Low or mid is fine, but even with full reduction at high TI, you can still die easily to certain monster's skills due to low HP pool. If you could double rank slim heals, one rank slim is like 30% your HP lol.


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#7 caelthar

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

Okay I may consider getting max hp recovery over endure


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#8 AvalonEir

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:45 PM

If you really like Endure effect, instead of having to recast Endure every time after a few short times, use Anodyne. A lot of people actually just throw them away from woe investment, but there is a lot out there (I have almost 10k+ stocked up). If you're getting Pushcart, that's even more Anodynes to carry. If you're getting a skill specifically for TI, why not just use a cheap item to replace since you won't need it after 150? More skill points for others =)

Potting is necessary for high TI. Low or mid is fine, but even with full reduction at high TI, you can still die easily to certain monster's skills due to low HP pool. If you could double rank slim heals, one rank slim is like 30% your HP lol.

10k+ Anodynes? That's a lot. Didn't think they came by that easily. And I still need it for 100 mdef since SNs can't wear Valk Shields sadly (that's the main reason I need it), but for pure TIs then yea it's fine, also since in mid and high it becomes way more about tanking than pulling (I personally just love doing both), but it's still one of those nice to have skills if you don't wanna stack up on Anodynes.

And with full reduction an SN shouldn't die easily, even with the low HP pool (since HP isn't the main deciding factor of a tank), especially since we can freeze mobs easily. It's pretty fun being main tank this week vs imps and banshees, but just not so much when it's monsters that don't freeze and hit hard, in which case you most likely won't tank. I still managed to be main tank plenty of times when we had Salamanders and Kasas, but of course it requires the rest of the party to follow tightly as well.

Edited by AvalonEir, 12 October 2013 - 10:54 PM.

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#9 Maithrie

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:00 PM

Hmmm I like your thinking sir, I may stick with endure
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#10 GinaKay

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:02 PM

Yeee Davlyn go tank every monster in the TI lmao
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#11 AvalonEir

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:08 PM

Hmmm I like your thinking sir, I may stick with endure

Actually I'm just gonna agree with michael. I'm just crazy enough to run around pulling and what not and I don't think you plan to WoE with a Super Novice. It's not necessary anyway since tank>pull. Ultimately up to you though and what you wanna do.

Yeee Davlyn go tank every monster in the TI lmao

Yea!

I actually died today when a really large pack of Imps all fireballed me at once :(

Edited by AvalonEir, 12 October 2013 - 11:09 PM.

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#12 caelthar

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 02:27 AM

Hey Avalon what is a good card for my novice shield? Hodremlin is a little pricey, and I feel its not worth putting it into it.

I'll try and get the racial cards, but what about Tatacho card? I figured since novice shield lacks it, and I thought it might fill that in.

 

Tatacho card - decreases  damage from neutral property  by 20% but then i read in another post that this attribute is not the same as neutral property resistance for like raydric card or deviling card which reduces damage from neutral attacks. What is the difference? or is it the same? 

 

Edit: In short, the difference between Decrease in damage from Neutral Property and decrease in damage from Neutral element attacks? which is better


Edited by caelthar, 13 October 2013 - 02:31 AM.

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#13 michaeleeli

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:18 AM

Oh yeah, everything I commented was for PvM, I did not intend on WoE at all (which in this case you could go for 100 MDEF, VERY useful)

 

And I agree, in high TI you are able to tank most things but certain monsters like Banshee, Dolo, that little green guy from Mora, are extremely hard to freeze even if you're 150. Kasa/Salamander is generally easier to tank due to just wear the proper resist - but if your team doesn't follow you and you have a few berserk'd Salamanders on you, you won't be able to out-pot it (so yea it really depends if you have a good team or not!) 

Another guy I hate is Incarnation of Morroc Golem. It often EQ and MB at the same time. With full reducs - DR, medium shield, etc, its EQ+MB will still hit you for ~10k+ with teammates on the screen, so if two Golems go off at the same time, you'd have a hard time reacting and out-pot it (happens!) Otherwise, a single one poses no threat. 

Anyways, since reducs are more important than max HP then potting should be crucial. If you can't afford ranked slims, you can just go for fat whites (ya seriously, with your pushcart you can carry about 600, enough for 1 TI)

 

About your shields:

Novice Shield is basically for free so card racial/size reduction! - it reduces all sources of damage from the monster. Cards are incredibly cheap too. Formless, Demon, Insects, are usually most common in high TI, small/mid/large size reduction is useful if they don't have the same race; rarely will they have different size + different races (that pose a threat) enough for you to enough hodremlin.

Lastly, don't use tatacho. In order for Tatacho to take in effect, it must have the following conditions 1) The monster must be neutral property 2) It must use a neutral property attack 

So yeah...don't bother with it


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#14 AvalonEir

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:39 AM

Banshees freeze pretty easily.

screenChaos010_zpsb072caed.jpg

 

Dolomedes freeze even easier. It was near impossible to freeze banshees when I was 130ish though. Levels make a biiiig difference.

 

I agree with Michael on the shield cards.


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#15 aikokun

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:59 AM

Tatacho Card and the ones similar to it work like the racial shield cards (Thara, etc.), but for monsters of a certain element instead of a race. It reduces damage from neutral-element monsters by 20% and you do 5% more damage to neutral monsters. This isn't the same as a Raydric Card, which reduces damage that is neutral property. If a neutral monster uses Fire Bolt on you, Tatacho would reduce the damage while Raydric would not (fire property attack from a neutral monster).

 

 

So if you're in a place with a lot of monsters of the same element, but different races (example: Magma 2 has brutes, demons, and dragons as fire-element monsters), it may be more beneficial to use one of these "-20% from fire monster" cards instead of having to switch between multiple racial shields.


Edited by aikokun, 13 October 2013 - 12:02 PM.

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#16 michaeleeli

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:38 PM

Maybe I'm wrong about the freezing. Does being a baby make a difference? I'm a baby SN - takes me at least 5~10 lv10 FN to freeze them, especially Mora monsters.

 

@aikokun Ooh so does the Tatacho card properly work on non-neutral attacks now? Last time we tested was 1.5 years ago, where it would reduce Comet from a player (Neutral magic) but not elemental magic (such as Firebolt). 

But that is a long time ago - maybe it works correctly now.


Edited by michaeleeli, 13 October 2013 - 04:41 PM.

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#17 aikokun

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:55 PM

I'm not sure. If I had one I'd test it for us. Haha, I didn't even know it was bugged in the first place anyway. :P


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#18 caelthar

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:12 PM

Wtf! I dont mean to complain, but for the quest why couldn't I get 1K poring, ive got 1K fabres.... FML


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#19 AvalonEir

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:24 PM

Maybe I'm wrong about the freezing. Does being a baby make a difference? I'm a baby SN - takes me at least 5~10 lv10 FN to freeze them, especially Mora monsters.


Yea if that were true then it sounds more like a bug or something xD Being a baby shouldn't affect your chances. From my experience the past couple of days, it's around a 70-80% chance for me to freeze them.

Wtf! I dont mean to complain, but for the quest why couldn't I get 1K poring, ive got 1K fabres.... FML


Oh grats. 99/99 already? Well you'll finish that quest...eventually. I got Picky before which took around 3 hours or something.
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#20 caelthar

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:42 PM

Thanks man, but these guys change into pupa into creamy.... so I got to kill them too, so they spawn more fabres.... jeeeez


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#21 caelthar

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 03:22 AM

Hey avalon why did you put 6 stone curse when you only need 1 for quagmire. just curious. is the spell that good?? Will I need decrease agi or was that for woe? If I don't need them where can i spend the last 5 skill points in the first job skills?

Oh yeah I ended up getting 10 Hp recovery since I don't do WoE :)


Edited by caelthar, 14 October 2013 - 03:39 AM.

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#22 AvalonEir

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:42 AM

They're both for WoE purposes.


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#23 caelthar

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:42 PM

I have 5 more skills points for 1st job skills. im thinking sp recovery or provoke? which 1


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#24 michaeleeli

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:35 PM

Stone curse is so awesome pvp/woe, since people tend to wear unfrozen only


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#25 AvalonEir

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:30 PM

I have 5 more skills points for 1st job skills. im thinking sp recovery or provoke? which 1


Iunno. Maybe 1 in provoke and the rest to SP recovery? Provoke just for mobbing passive monsters, though you could do that with level 1 cold bolt or something anyway. SP recovery would increase the potency of SP items, which you will really need to have some of since Frost Nova + low SP pool can burn SP fast. If you don't mob too much, have +SP gears, and a high amount of INT then you may not need SP items.
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