444 replies to this topic

[Melkor]

 

We want to change the way this works to do the following.

Encourage Guild working together

Encourage PVP in guild dungeons

 

Our idea is to make the following changes.

Each seal instead of incrementing some invisible sky counter would instead give it’s normal reward and a seal token (Unique Token for each quest).

The tokens will be fully tradeable vendable and all that jazz.

 

Guild Leader looking to make a god item turns in 50 or 100 of each token to an npc in the guild dungeon and starts a event in their castle’s guild dungeon. That they have 6 hours (can be changed) to complete.

Hundreds of monsters appear on the map. The Guild Leader receives a kill count quest to kill 400 of them. Upon finishing the kill quest the monsters disappear and an MVP spawns. Once the MVP is dead then the dwarf appears. Only the guild leader who started the event will be able to talk to the dwarf and create the god item.

 

During this event, server announcements will be going off informing the other guilds. Also the other guilds will be able to go into the guild dungeon and attempt to stab, blast, or otherwise inconvenience the item creating guild by preventing the MVP’s death.

Any Questions, Comments, Concerns, Cat Pictures?
 

 

 

I think that this will almost CERTAINLY boost server life and encourage people to actually play.  I am so proud of you, administration!  You finally thought up a really good idea!

 

I think that what Xellie said about killing static monsters is a much better idea than a high end MVP.  Small guilds need to be at least able to do it as well, and expecting them to kill a beelzebub-level MVP while fending off other guilds is a little absurd.  In fact, hell, it could even be emperiums scattered around the dungeon that you have to kill within a certain time limit.  Furthermore, if you could program it this way, it might not be a bad idea to make everyone who is actually in the guild on the map at the time to hit this static monster at least once for it to die.  Just another idea for teamwork.

 

6 hours is really a long time, but if you think about it, that really isn't too much to ask, either.  You're talking about making a permanent god item for your guild.  I could totally see that taking up an entire afternoon's worth of time, and for there to be enough time for competition to actually get on to stop you.  If 6 hours just really bothers you, then you could set it to 4 hours like ET.

 

Another thing to consider:  This would make it REALLY easy for "all guilds vs one guild" to occur.  So if Immortal Dreams just as an example was trying to make an item in Britonia GD, it would be to Sharks' advantage (and to the advantage of ALL guilds, for that matter!) to allow other members from say Chrono Triggers BR or Valhalla or any guild into their guild in order to fight Immortal Dreams in Britoniah, when those guilds don't have a Brit fort.  

 

Also, just imagine if there was 5 different guilds holding each of the forts in a realm.  That's potentially 54 people VS 216 people.  Not particularly fair.  I suppose this could be somewhat nullified by alliances trying to assist the guild creating by helping them defend themselves, but we don't really have the server population for that.

 

As another side note, if the guild leader is going to receive a kill count quest, that means only those in his party could kill the monsters, ruling out over half (potentially) the rest of the guild in that regard.

 

And yes, for God's sake, disable res tokens, ice wall, flywings (yes, fly wings!), and all other pissy things that would totally take away from the teamwork of the event. 

Edited by Melkor, 16 October 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[iamvrypwrful]

fly wings are fine in GD

 

gwings, ice wall, and res tokens ruin any sort of fighting though

[Xellie]

As a really douchey sinx I ask that flywings stay enabled.

 

I'm not being sarcastic. This is actually something I enjoy doing.

[Melkor]

This makes you a horrible, horrible person.  

[Xellie]

I'm an Assassin, I like to Assassinate people

[Xellie]

Ok, finally had some time to sit down and think about this. And I'm really not sure, there's a few things to consider.

 

Right now, anybody can make a god item if they are persistent enough. There are limited sets on the server/people sleep. The question is really one of making enough characters, but there's no way that you can fail indefinitely. This new system would add that aspect.

That is my concern when it comes to the little guys.

 

Secondly. I can't think of anything more frustrating than trying to kill even a mid level MVP with people trying to prevent you, on a non-PVP map. here are my concerns related to this.

 

a / Eske-reflect. - Technically, you couldn't stop someone doing this. What a waste of EXP/time/money

b / Teleport enable/disable on MVPs? Guilds attempting to stop the questing guild could just teleport the MVP forever, which leads to the next point

c / It takes a group to kill an MVP, but only one person to eff it up. This probably goes against everything that is trying to be achieved here.

d / GD war mechanics are PVP mechanics. They hurt a LOT more than WoE Mechanics. This is a unique PVP atmosphere in which groups can flywing (necessary for PVM anyway imo) and also get some pretty awesome surprise kills off.  That said, it also makes certain skills too stronk.

e / Should d/ be a concern and damage is reduced to be more like WoE damage, then the MVP instantly becomes harder to kill.

f / I want to kill people, not MVPs.

 

I think buffing GD MVPs overall to create that kind of fight is something that could be looked at separately. But to incorporate what is essentially glorified griefing into the God Item quest? Being realistic, only a small handful of people will come online to do this fight anyway. God Item creations won't move away from being at 5-6am PST or whenever someone decides the rest of the server is asleep.

 

So, with the current seal quest you get DAYS of warning that someone is going to create and thus time to stop them. With this? Nah, there would have to be a multistage lead up to just enable a group to try and stop the others.

 

I do not think that the creation needs to be hard unless people actually do try to stop them (that is how it is now). And I dislike this mindset of "well maybe the smaller guilds don't deserve an item if they can't do this" - as is stands right now they could make an item with enough persistence. To remove that chance and their chances of being able to play catch up? I'm not comfortable with that.

 

And also yes, I think all guilds should be able to access the GD this is happening in, because 3-4 on 1 would not be cool.

[iamvrypwrful]

 

And also yes, I think all guilds should be able to access the GD this is happening in, because 3-4 on 1 would not be cool.

 

I think it would be almost impossible to complete if anyone can mess you up. Wouldn't the main goal be to get the majority/all castles in the realm so less people can mess you up?

 

Overall, I think this entire idea is decent, but in reality it's going to be bad, and not really work well.

 

-

 

LET'S DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE! (simple fixes.......)

1. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is disable ice wall, gwings, and res tokens inside GD. This would force guilds to have to fight eachother instead of 1 person waiting on a dead guild leader with ED + res tokens.

 

2. Reduce all 4 parts of seal quest to 50 down from 100, only makes sense with server size.

 

you're welcome

Edited by iamvrypwrful, 17 October 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Campitor]

Expanding on this a bit:

 

Seal Quests

 

I. Seals will maintain their current mechanics of being Closed -> Open -> Released

a. Seals are considered released when the counter is greater than 99.

 

II. Seal quests will now give a Token of SEALNAME upon completion. These tokens will be used in the god item creation quest.

 

III. Characters will be able to access seal quests two different ways.

a. If a seal is open a character can do that seal quest out of order.

b. No matter the status of the seals characters will be able to always complete the seals in order of 1, 2, 3, and 4. IE You need to complete seal 2 to start seal 3 UNLESS seal 3 is open.

       i.This is to prevent guild leaders from being unable to complete their god items due to the seals never being open for the seal tokens they need.

 

God Item Creation

 

I. As long as all four seals are released. Guild Leaders currently holding a WoE 1 Castle will be able to take 50 of each seal to a dwarf in their realm’s guild dungeon.

a.This will unlock the God Item Creation Event for the server.

b.The event will take place on a new Guild Dungeon map (base map yet to be determined.)

 i. Any one will be able to access the new guild dungeon via the dwarves on the old guild dungeon maps.

ii. Four different monsters unique to this map will spawn.

1. Upon turning in the seal tokens a guild leader will receive four kill quests, one for each monster.

2. Any guild leader will be able to turn in a set of 50 seal tokens from each seal in order to receive the kill quests as well.

c.Once a guild leader has completed all four kill quests they will be eligible to create a WoE 1 God Item.

 i.To do so they must defeat the portal guardian found at the center of the map.

1.This will open access to the creation dwarf for a few minutes.

ii.Talking to the creation dwarf with all four kill quests completed will allow the guild leader to create the item.

1.A timer will be started once the first item is created.

a.During this timer any other guild leader with a completed kill quest set will be able to create their items as well.

b. Once the timer is finished everyone is kicked out of the guild dungeon and the creation dwarf room.

2. Each created item will reduce all seal counters by 100 or to 0 whichever leaves the counter at a higher number.

d. If you fail to create your god item during the event you will not lose progress on your kill quests. You can either wait for another guild to start the event or turn in another 50 seal token sets to start the event again.

[iamvrypwrful]

So 5 god items can be made during 1 turn in? Do all the kill quest monsters keep respawning?

[azertygf]

Probably a lot of Quit because of Gravity error / lag in the server map where you finish the quest.

 

You want to update all the god items quest but is really dumb for me.

 

Just help people to finish the God Items Quest.

Example : Help people to push the seal 1 and 2 this can make people want finish the seal quest. If you don't want to push the seal with GM command just make an event that include the Seal 1 and 2. (Example : Guild supply quest (you win a lot of woe conso) or Leveling quest (you win like 50M base/jobExp if you finish the quest 1 and again 50MBase/jobexp for the 2). Or you can Add bloody branch in the quest 1 and 2 (10 bloody branch  by player finish the quest 1 and again 10 for the quest 2)

You have a lot of solution but with your solution we probably have terrible bug.

 

If people have god items in your server they probably log more than before just for use the god items and have fun.

Edited by azertygf, 19 October 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[MattyL904]

Whatever happens disable gwings, res tokens, and ice wall please!

[Chipotle]

2. Any guild leader will be able to turn in a set of 50 seal tokens from each seal in order to receive the kill quests as well.

wait 50 of each seal, 200 tokens in total??

 

Dear god.....Does this mean seals are still going to be at 100 per seal?

[RonSilver]

 

III. Characters will be able to access seal quests two different ways.

a. If a seal is open a character can do that seal quest out of order.

b. No matter the status of the seals characters will be able to always complete the seals in order of 1, 2, 3, and 4. IE You need to complete seal 2 to start seal 3 UNLESS seal 3 is open.

       i.This is to prevent guild leaders from being unable to complete their god items due to the seals never being open for the seal tokens they need.

 

is this implemented yet?

i have this char with wich i have completed previously the first seal quest and was then abandoned to oblivion waiting for the second seal to open. supposedly, from what you've said, i should be able to do the second seal quest now, but i can't.

[Xellie]

2. Any guild leader will be able to turn in a set of 50 seal tokens from each seal in order to receive the kill quests as well.

c.Once a guild leader has completed all four kill quests they will be eligible to create a WoE 1 God Item.

 i.To do so they must defeat the portal guardian found at the center of the map.

1.This will open access to the creation dwarf for a few minutes.

ii.Talking to the creation dwarf with all four kill quests completed will allow the guild leader to create the item.

1.A timer will be started once the first item is created.

a.During this timer any other guild leader with a completed kill quest set will be able to create their items as well.

 

 

 

Just been giving this some thought. I really don't want to do the seals if some lazyass who paid zeny for all the tokens (probably by xferring zeny via wpe, buying zeny or selling cash shop items) can just then bypass the questing part. The  amount of work involved even to do 50 of each (which is half the current) is more than I would like to "donate" to other people.

 

 

[Chipotle]

but what if no one has 50 tokens....dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

Still say 100 people per seal is ridiculous, we dont have a 2000 + people population

[Flack]

The proposed plan sounds great. Make sure it's well tested.

@Xellie
If you don't allow the tokens to be traded or sold then I don't see how 1 person is supposed to end up with 50 tokens to do the quest. By adding the tokens it gives everyone more incentive to do these quests. Especially if you want to get some zeny.

[Xellie]

Yeah but it's stupid to allow someone who just bought them all an easy ride after someone opened the seal for them

 

Going to be now I'm the first person to open the seals when the change goes in

[cybernetic]

So buy them all before someone else can!

[Xellie]

This is this coming weds, correct?

Edited by Xellie, 17 November 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[battle]

Camp I would just do to thing to seals

 

Give npc that removes seal complete status I would make it magical stone from kafra store.

The other is reduce seal roll to 50-75 people have to do quest.

I would also realize GD is worth going to now but I would add some weaker mobs to some of the GD. like Geffen could use zombies or munaks.

 

PS, If your going to do this then make mvp part send guild leader to map were he could recall guild and fight the high end mvp in peace.

[Bazzz]

In my opinion after the killing of 400 mobs in GD there should be a WoE 2 style barracade section which spawns withen the GD behind the dwarf. It must be broken in order to access a portal behind it which contains the MvP which can be killed uncontested and once dead rewards the god item creation.

 

Tokens could be used on the mvp but not in the GD.

 

[Flack]

If I'm reading this correctly I think you need to make one more change.  I really think you need to add the function to start the event any time with "X" number of tokens. That's one of the big problems with the current quest is trying to avoid other people from interfering with your roll.  Since you can already PVP people while they are collecting the quest I think it is important to adjust the quest in this one way. 

[Xellie]

No, quest like those of us who have some balls. ( assuming what you mean is that people should just be able to buy the tokens and not have to wait for the seals to roll)

 

Why should people have to do less than the amount of work my guys have put in three times? I dislike the stupid quest, I think it's convoluted and unnecessary.

 

Comparing this to Okolnir is a joke!

 

Just use the tokens to buy a head start on the race, that's all that is needed.

 

and keep it at 100.

 

#1200quests

 

also god item flooding. Be more Classic and Less Ymir.

Edited by Xellie, 24 November 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[Ximena]

Not only do all of the monsters have entirely too much HP, but the whole quest seems like a waste of time add-on to an already frustrating way of getting god items. It's not really encouraging guilds to work together nor encouraging further gd battles, just allows a sniping guild to do even less work than they have to with the current system. 

[needmorezleep]

The monsters have way too much HP for the amount needed to kill and the size of the map is also something that makes this not so great. The boss is terrible with it's HP pool and typing combined with other guilds trying to kill you or even randoms trolling it's going to be a frustrating experience if the boss heals even worse. 

Edited by needmorezleep, 24 November 2013 - 02:44 PM.