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Question: Are Warrior/Knight *actually* capable of being DPS?


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#1 Kathule

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:33 PM

Obviously every class has some availability to be a DPS, but will not come close to actual DPS classes, however could Warrior, or Knight, be capable at all of being a DPS class?

 

Wondering if I should just roll Thief at this point. I like the idea of Warrior, but I'm not too keen on tanking...


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#2 mysticalre

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:51 PM

- "are they able to fill a DPS role?" - only in some cases, but if you're the same gear level as the dungeon, then it's not a good choice

 

- "can they do better overall DPS than a DPS class?" - with equal gear and skill, no, you have to outgear the person by a lot to match their DPS


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#3 Freakonomics

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:18 AM

Yes, they are Capable but they cannot compete against those Real DPS Classes (Sorc/Ranger/Rogue/Assassin). Maybe in Colo/PvP for some cases, but PvE wise? I don't think so.

 

But if you have better Gears/Cards/Runes than them, maybe yes.


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#4 Tyrcard

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:47 AM

Played with warrior and rogue and I can say that rogue beats warrior in dps big time, even without doping. Ofc, if you have battle tactics maxed as well as very high agi and int, you can come somewhat close to dps classes with your insane crits and pro crowd control skills. But you'll never beat them. And that's why you'll never find a good party if you go pure dps build with a sword class. It's even hard for a dps class to find a party nowadays, cause there's simply too many dps classes and too many ppl playing them. As a tank you'd find a lot more parties, tbh. You wouldn't believe me how many times I had to tank bosses with my rogue in lower lvl dungeons simply because there were no tanks around for hours XD


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#5 Greven79

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:08 AM

Yes, they are Capable but they cannot compete against those Real DPS Classes

 

lol.

 

I admit however, that it's hard to see when you look at the skills:

 

ASSASSIN:

Double Attack: 25% damage, 1sec cooldowm

Deadly Blow: 25% damage +7% per combo point

Shadow Explosion: 85% damage

 

Combo Mastery: 15% chance for +1 combo point = 15% more points on average

 

Shadow Form: + 30% attack speed => +30% more damage on average

Shadow Cloak: 5% chance for double damage (crit. chance) => 5% more damage on average

G. Mark: 2% chance for double damage => 2% more damage on average

 

Shadow Fiend: 12% for 22% damage => 2.64% damage on average

 

WARRIOR:

Bash: 25% damage, 1sec cooldown

Aura Strike: 25% damage; +7% per aura

Rage Strike: 90% damage

 

Rage Control: 5-20 rage points => 12.5 points on average = +25% more points on average (if compared to the original 10 Rage = 1 Aura)

 

Berserk: +20% damage (usable half of the time => +10% damage on average)

Aura Sword: +10% damage

Battle Order: +10% STR => ~5% more damage

Battle Tactics: 0.4% crit. damage per INT => assuming 10% crit. chance and 125 INT = 5% more damage on average

(20% crit. chance and 250 INT = +20% damage on average)

 

So you would expect that a Warrior can compete, but it's not true. But basically this is due to the overall weak Aura Sword and Berserk, but it also comes by the fact that the gear grants different boni:

 

ASSASSIN:

All Colo gear: STR ~540, AGI ~230; Defense ~930

 

WARRIOR:

All Gear: STR ~620, AGI ~70; Defense ~1240

 

It's +160 attack power (80 STR diff x2) vs. ca. +15% more crit. chance (160 AGI). And this is where things went wrong in RO2: STR is a flat increase (your weapon damage doesn't matter). AGI also grants a flat increase in Crit. chance, but since the damage is doubled (not increased by a certain amount), the damage of your weapon really counts here. In the example above: If your base attack is ~1000, both would be quite balanced. But by the way you have all your skills maxed out, your base attack bonus is much, much higher, maybe around 2.500 or more.

 

BUT: For AGI to be much more valuable than STR, there has to be the level cap. Right now, you can wear lvl 60-70 gear (Colo, CoA or AoD WITH +10 refinement), your level stays at 50 however. And at this level, +160 AGI means much more than it would do on lvl 60 or 70.

 

Another note: Although the difference in defense between Assassin and Warrior Colo gear looks like a big favor for the Warrior (+33% more defense), the actual difference in damage reduction is about 7% (21% vs. 28%). This is easily negated by Berserk.

 

All in all, that's why I would like to see the following changes:

lvl 5 Aura Sword: +10% damage, +5% crit. chance

lvl 5 Berserk: +40% haste/vigor, +40% movement speed; but -40% defense [maybe cooldown set to 90sec]


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#6 pollenpetal

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:28 AM

Just uploaded awhile ago. Hope you Enjoy.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=VInkW34OQGY 

 

My Warrior's Crit!


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#7 Tiduspeco

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:46 PM

To put it simply, they are good hybrid classes at best. Warrior will have better burst damage where as Knight will be more consistant. I'd say Warrior would be a better dps class, but it won't put out as much damage as another dps class.


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#8 D3ATHNOTE

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 07:16 PM

If you can get good gear and good card you will easily do enough damage.

I am a knight who is full tank spec and I out DPS like 80% of people in raids. I can only be out DPSed by really strong DPS who know what they are doing. The average Joe does not stand a chance, Regardless of class.

 

 

I can Crit Aura strikes for  like 4-5 k and bash for like 3 - 3.6 k and shield Cannon for 12k in Raid. As long as you have the right gear to support it you will do fine. ( keep in mind i am using nothing but Vit runes and have all my stats in Vit and the leftover in Str.)

 

Knights can DPS even harder if you go full agi / str.

 

I Prefer being a Meat shield who tanks like a boss and can Dish out the DPS as well.

 

 

-D3ATHNOTE


Edited by 1959130711223313700, 11 November 2013 - 08:03 PM.

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#9 pollenpetal

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 07:34 PM

To put it simply, they are good hybrid classes at best. Warrior will have better burst damage where as Knight will be more consistant. I'd say Warrior would be a better dps class, but it won't put out as much damage as another dps class.

 

I think they are the same. It will all depends on gears and builds. I tried modifying a friend which is a Knight, he dealt 15K Shield Cannon in a raid. I think he is full buffed thought at that time.


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#10 jhay1825

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:01 AM

The thing about warriors is the attacks are slow. If agi will give some attack speed like RO1 does i would say warriors can be one of the best DPS in game, but sadly agi only gives crit and dodge percentage here.
Real DPS classes like rouge, sin and ranger have insanely fast attack speed thats why even though a DPS war with more attack power cannot match a true DPS class. Your only chance to gain the maximum DPS in warriors in Criting in Battle Tactics.
About DPS knights i think they would be ok as DPS but like evryone said it still cannot match a real DPS class.

Edited by jhay1825, 12 November 2013 - 07:07 AM.

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#11 pollenpetal

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:09 AM

I really don't know. I eat Sorcs and DPS Priest for breakfast.


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#12 Dzonatan

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 11:09 PM

I really don't know. I eat Sorcs and DPS Priest for breakfast.

 

You are confusing Burst and PvP with DPS. DPS is about doing sustained stream of damage for a extended period of time.


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#13 SonicTMP

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 11:49 AM

hah, checkign fourms after long time for no reason.

 

Knights do fine dps if you spec and gear 100% for it. You will never beat a rogue (no on can beat a rogue they get an extra 30% ap over every other physical damage class) but you can keep up with everyone else just fine.

 

 


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#14 Greven79

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:03 AM

The thing about warriors is the attacks are slow. If agi will give some attack speed like RO1 does i would say warriors can be one of the best DPS in game, but sadly agi only gives crit and dodge percentage here.

 

Rogues, Assassins and Ranger get more AGI. Therefore adding anything to this attribute would benefit those classes more. Ergo the Warrior would get even weaker.

 

Knights do fine dps if you spec and gear 100% for it. You will never beat a rogue (no on can beat a rogue they get an extra 30% ap over every other physical damage class) but you can keep up with everyone else just fine.

 

Knights and Warriors can't compete with Rangers and Assassins as well. At least not a single person I met ever could.

 

BattleTactics IS a broken skill, since the average damage increase can be much higher than with Berserk. But BT can't compensate the deficit of orher Warrior/Knight DPS skills,

 


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#15 SonicTMP

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:48 AM

I can't speak for Warriors since i don't remember any who truely tired dps but as for me...

 

http://forums.warppo...ight/?p=1410164

 

This is the dps knight thread back when CoA first came out. As you can see I'm right on the heels of the sin and the ranger is on mine. I never stayed around enough or burned money to get full HM CoA+ gear or runes which would of boosted damage output alot.

 

Get the right balance of int/agi and you become a crit machine.  Skill wise it's a very boring rotation though but it does keep up providing you have full uptime on the boss.

 


Edited by SonicTMP, 26 December 2013 - 02:49 AM.

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