115 replies to this topic

[DrunkinMonkey]

oh i didnt notice that one without anyone to pvp i have been focusing on the dodge rate vs mobs.. unfortunatly

 

Leo any chance of having the IM armour have simular dodge to say lvl100 common armor? 

 

as for my cleric i reskilled & restated my max lvl cleric with my low lvl dex clerics wand ect... not so bad for ref 15 lvl200 legendary gear, unrefined offhand with inapropiate stats, no gems in acc... i still managed about 61% block rate and 1800 dodge (self Buffed) dodge isnt so high but coupled with decent def and the block rate it worked out pretty well in prison but would love to try it out in cd or dungeon style instance's

[Bendersmom]

Rose is much more like "Rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock".  The design in the classes now has at least one class more easily able to kill another class, yet all classes can modify their builds, skills, etc to try to overcome that some.  Those classes that have magic will more easily take out those classes that do not have much magic defense, etc.  And to me that is how it should be.  Yes, clerics are more able to defend now, but the right class can really put them down pretty fast, especially in a war situation.  My only issue is that everyone now has stuns, sleeps and/or mutes.  Those should all be magic skills except maybe a poison on an arrow can sleep or stun you, or a big hit from a knight could momentarily mute or stun you.  But CD has turned into a major sleep/stun/mute fest with very few classes actually relying on their base characteristics.  Ranged characters just stay in mass with the clerics, either in the crystal or in a bunch and clerics are fine until there is only one that is constantly slept/muted or stunned.  CD seemed to have more variety before the skill update.  

 

And as far as the testing on Pegasus, I think you should announce it in game some that you are doing that.  A lot of the players would be happy to help but we all know that the forums are not read that much unless someone wants to complain, and a lot of players have never even been on the forums.  You might have had more testers.  And I understand why you are setting it up for each server, so we can have our present gear, but one server does not seem to have enough people willing to test at a time on it.  Pegasus was pretty much empty when I went on this past weekend, so I could change my skills/build/gear but couldn't test it.  And the biggest test will be in people trying to level or PVP and in CD.  And for that you need a lot of people.  TG 1vs1 testing is all fine and good but most people are not really set up for 1vs1 and a lot of classes are not really designed for 1vs1.

[Leonis]

DrunkinMonkey, all the armor were statted, based on a level requirement, when it comes to accuracy and dodge, weapon or armor. Because the ability to hit and avoid damage can impact the outcome of an overall fight, I don't want to have 'level-less' equipment be equivalent to level 100. This would mean a level 10, would have the accuracy and/or dodge of a level 100 and be godly, until that point. Not the intention of this update and not a side effect I would like to see either.

 

Bendersmomn, announcements should have been made, it just wasn't a great turn out. Mostly, those interested in testing are those who pay attention to the forums and not only that, but you are also the most vocal in giving feedback. Feel free to invite others you know to come help test, because I'm sure your friends would be easier to persuade to join you and help influence the update, than most. Those of you here on the forums have the ability to help shape the outcome of the updates we put to Pegasus, just like the Skill Update. It was shaped and formed in to something better, because of all the feedback and extensive testing we put it through.

 

I cannot make people do things, such as test. If I could, I would be using my powers for other beneficial means for the human race. Like get me an occasional sandwich when I'm feeling peckish... or world peace, you know, whatever.

[jerremy]

You should give that occasional sandwich to the poor and solve world hunger.

[Leonis]

You should give that occasional sandwich to the poor and solve world hunger.

 

Well, if I had the power to control what people do, I would just make them stop being hungry!

 

or...

 

make more people share the wealth they have evenly across humanity.

[jerremy]

Well, if I had the power to control what people do, I would just make them stop being hungry!

 

or...

 

make more people share the wealth they have evenly across humanity.

The last time people tried that it was called communism. It didn't end well.

[Leonis]

The last time people tried that it was called communism. It didn't end well.

 

Yeah, but they didn't have my powers.
 

... oh wait, neither do I.

[Dirtyarry]

 just put it live and ppl will come and voice there opinions,the community complain on every update/tweek

this needs testing in so many different scenarios, that ask server A-B to jump over to peg really ain't gonna give the feedback you want.

 

imo just rolling it out and getting the feed back from live servers, where we can go buy/swap/borrow diff equips.

the live servers are not super active right now,so getting good numbers on peg is a tall ask.

 

[pdfisher]

Leonis, I am sorry I didn't help this time. I just felt I wouldn't be much help, seeing as how I don't have a dodge/acc char that I play alot. Therefore, I wouldn't notice any of the changes.

[Leonis]

Dirtyarry, the initial cry out was that we test it off the live server, because it was going to be a potential big shift (concern from the community) and they wanted to be able to test first and give feedback before the live servers were hit with it. It's not a bad process to go through for mechanical changes like this, to give the opportunity for feedback that could avoid larger headaches from the live server push.

 

pdfisher, there's never a need to apologize for not being able to help. We appreciate any help offered and the feedback to follow it. The idea of this test was to see how it affected your character from the live server. Even though your character may not have been focused on dodge or accuracy, there's a good chance it will still have changed, because various points were modified.

[DrunkinMonkey]

DrunkinMonkey, all the armor were statted, based on a level requirement, when it comes to accuracy and dodge, weapon or armor. Because the ability to hit and avoid damage can impact the outcome of an overall fight, I don't want to have 'level-less' equipment be equivalent to level 100. This would mean a level 10, would have the accuracy and/or dodge of a level 100 and be godly, until that point. Not the intention of this update and not a side effect I would like to see either.

This is a good point leo that i didnt consider to its full extent however as something you have to pay for with real money that is only going to be useful at low lvls in pve only i think some adjustment could be made?? just something to think over as things like maids outfit and boxer ect ect have no lvl re but only last to lvl 70 max if your lucky wit ref 15 gear, in general after lvl 50 atm you have more dodge & def on rienforced +9/10 eq (on live server)

 

 

Leonis, I am sorry I didn't help this time. I just felt I wouldn't be much help, seeing as how I don't have a dodge/acc char that I play alot. Therefore, I wouldn't notice any of the changes.

you would be suprised at how much dodge some classes have gained aswell as teh changes to acc while pve is the only place your going to get to tset things out unless you have friends or clan members who can join you it is worth atlest having a little play around

for instance my spear champs armour droped its dodge rate drastically yet due to the high amount of dex it has i actually gained dodge

Edited by DrunkinMonkey, 26 November 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[thebusiness]

this is how it should be

 

Raider>Mage

Mage>Champion

Champion>Bourg

Bourg>Raider

 

 

 

 

Arti's are for crafting, not pvp

Clerics are for support, they should be tank but very low damage

knights are for tank, super tanky, very low damage

[Leonis]

I would be willing to set the 'base level' tier to level 30, since that is the starting point you are able to enter in to PvP activities. Any higher and it has the potential to become an influence you pay for as a combat advantage. We're still working to try and remove any 'pay-to-win' aspects the Item Mall has, when it comes to competitive game aspects.

 

As for the Spear Champ's yes, that was something we saw as well. The dodge gain was more about the build than the armor, so the other two aspects of the Champion are no longer able to benefit from the armor the same as the spear tree does. In any case, it's still falling in to desired realms of outcome and we're ok with it for now. We're going to make some adjustments for the next test period and see how that feedback is. At the very least, the little feedback we get helps make the live release be a bit more smoother by going over the initial feedback we would have gotten otherwise.

 

Getting friends to join you on Pegasus is easier than my posting notices many might overlook.

[Leonis]

 

this is how it should be

 

Raider>Mage

Mage>Champion

Champion>Bourg

Bourg>Raider

 

 

 

 

Arti's are for crafting, not pvp

Clerics are for support, they should be tank but very low damage

knights are for tank, super tanky, very low damage

 

I appreciate your feedback, and your opinion of how it should be. Unfortunately, over the years, a simple setup like this just isn't possible anymore.

 

If we want to use your chart as a comparison,

 

Raider > Mage > Champion > Bourgeois > Raider (repeat)

Where do Knights, Scouts, Clerics and Artisans fall in this? Not including these classes is unfair to them, because they will want to participate with their friends and lend a hand. And it isn't like we can stop the other classes from joining anyways and to do so would be unfair as well.

 

Even though an Artisan isn't a combat class, they are still able to contribute to combat and thus, should still be a consideration and have the ability to participate in combat events so they can have the option to level and participate with a party.

 

Even though a Knight is designed to be a tank, doesn't mean they can't be offensive or win against another class in a battle. In fact, how they tend to win is, they outlast most others because of their high defense and hit points.

 

And you didn't even mention Scouts. Not sure why.

[Dr0Vamp]

he didnt mention scouts to troll you leo you should know that by now ^^

 

wish i could have helped on pegasus but work and real life calls and well we all know that real life comes first =) but even tho i dont play draco really i do have a few toons on draco and im going to try and work out something where i can try and test some on my days off (which arent very many lol)

[DrunkinMonkey]

I would be willing to set the 'base level' tier to level 30, since that is the starting point you are able to enter in to PvP activities. Any higher and it has the potential to become an influence you pay for as a combat advantage. We're still working to try and remove any 'pay-to-win' aspects the Item Mall has, when it comes to competitive game aspects.

 

As for the Spear Champ's yes, that was something we saw as well. The dodge gain was more about the build than the armor, so the other two aspects of the Champion are no longer able to benefit from the armor the same as the spear tree does. In any case, it's still falling in to desired realms of outcome and we're ok with it for now. We're going to make some adjustments for the next test period and see how that feedback is. At the very least, the little feedback we get helps make the live release be a bit more smoother by going over the initial feedback we would have gotten otherwise.

 

Getting friends to join you on Pegasus is easier than my posting notices many might overlook.

 

That sounds pretty good leo making it equilivent to a lvl30 eq would fit in with only lasting to lvl 50 if you pushed it (depends on class obviously)

and no one pvps at lvl 30 junon cf have been empty for yrs unfortunatly ( you do now get the odd hih lvl epic farming now...) i used to enjoy running around pking in there on my lvl 89 knight however this is a whole diff topic

 

also i think that while dodge increased slightly it didnt icrease enough to "truley" become usefull for teh spear champ without sacrificing to much on dodge eq/gems maybe increase the passive by 5-10% ??

Edited by DrunkinMonkey, 26 November 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[Leonis]

Dr0Vamp, Pegasus is still online till tomorrow when we switch over to the Draconis database and put up and adjustment patch based on the initial feedback from the first 'test group.' XD

[thebusiness]

I forgot about scouts lol, I guess I should change "raider" to "hawker" and there..

 

I think simplifying it is the best bet,

Arti's should be for crafting, not pvp, so very low damage

tanks should be able to tank hella damage, which is useful in pvp, maybe add some more benefits like aoe mutes, good def downs, but nothing that directly kills other players easily atleast.

 

It's a very simple concept, and it's the best way to balance things out. Everyone beats someone and loses to someone else.

 

 

EDIT: and I'm not trying to be a troll, what I wrote wasn't meant to be taken as final law, it was simply just an example.

 

And Leonis, if you think I'm just flat out wrong please tell me how the balancing should be. Which classes are meant to be the best in pvp.

Edited by thebusiness, 26 November 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Leonis]

I am not going to say you're wrong, there's nothing saying right or wrong, otherwise we wouldn't need to be even questioning it and just follow the guideline and rules of fact.

 

But the thing is, there's more to it than perhaps you are considering. In a world setup to allow for customization, there's really no "best" because anyone can fit themselves out to function a certain way and can overcome another, simply because their build and play style, didn't defend well against it.

 

There is no black and white here, it is many shades of grey, to which we're just trying to make sure there's no real pure black and white, so no class can be excluded or favored solely. That exclusion causes unhappiness to wanting to play a class. The favored, is what results in the eventual complaints of "overpowered" issues. At the same time, what we also don't want, is every class to feel the same. Each one has a style, has a strength and flaw. You can either cater to your strengths or cover for your weaknesses. This is part of the game and an aspect of play we have as a goal. So everyone can feel rewarded for their efforts to one play style over another.

 

In short, there is no easy way to make it as simple as you've expressed. There is a basic element that we've put behind each character that gives an edge over another naturally, but there are so many factors within the world we've created, it's nearly impossible to make them enforced without taking away many of the elements that have made ROSE the fun and unique game play it has.

[coalchamberloco]

file[3ddata\terrain\O_range.tbl] open error

That is what I get every time I try to run peg, even with a fresh install using a special installer Zurn linked me.  It worked fine before, I tested enough last time to get the wings/mount for my cleric.  I give up, but I did try. 

 

 

[Leonis]

Try this link, it might take a while, but this is a zipped file of a finished install that has been patched and no problems.

 

http://patch.roseonl...Pegasus_v64.zip

[Diaz92]

Ive tested scout with full magical j7 and raider against a BA// raider having 5.3k Dodge was still no good against a artisian with 2.5k acc he had no problem hitttin me i have no idea if its meant to be like this because its a huge sacrifice going full dodge for nothing

[DrunkinMonkey]

2.5 acc is very high i would expect a battle arti to win easily enough

 

try fighting a class that will have less ac naturally, most people work with around 1.5k acc

[zTerrorz]

Dr0Vamp, Pegasus is still online till tomorrow when we switch over to the Draconis database and put up and adjustment patch based on the initial feedback from the first 'test group.' XD

 

Leo, what about an dual Database? That Leonis and Draconis can join? It is not possible to test couse there arent many people, in my opinion its a good idea !

 

More perople = more Feedback.

 

regards Flo

[Leonis]

Ive tested scout with full magical j7 and raider against a BA// raider having 5.3k Dodge was still no good against a artisian with 2.5k acc he had no problem hitttin me i have no idea if its meant to be like this because its a huge sacrifice going full dodge for nothing

You're putting a dodge type against an accuracy type, I wouldn't expect you to do phenomenally well. It also depends on how you approached the fight. If you just run in head on, yeah, I would expect you to loose. You have other mechanics to support your ability to get in and deal damage before their able to start taking advantage of their high accuracy.

 

Leo, what about an dual Database? That Leonis and Draconis can join? It is not possible to test couse there arent many people, in my opinion its a good idea !
 
More perople = more Feedback.
 
regards Flo

 
Merging for the sake of Pegasus has the same headaches associated to the idea of doing it to the live server. It is not worth it.
 

We've got some adjustments going in today and will be switching over to the Draconis database, pulling from today. Get ready and tell your friends to get the Pegasus client working so they can help you test!