40 replies to this topic

[GiggleFairy]

that is an interesting idea with shields(REALLY like this idea, +1 to you   ). the idea for +1 def to other classes was only meant for the tank classes mostly. BMs finally are able to do something solid and someone somewhere has to make a complaint about it. that is pretty sad. i can see why everyone is complaining about knights/sorcerers lacking, rangers 1 button spamming in colo, or the burst from assassins(isnt that what an assassin is suppose to do?) in general. 

 

 

stats are a bit wonky atm but that is bound to happen after a big patch like this. hopefully next patch will make things smoother without hurting characters to much.

Edited by GiggleFairy, 30 December 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[ArukaX]

 As a DPS I am a better Tank than another tank in the game, and I top the boards in DPS too. 

 

 

so many factors needed to be considered here... but you could be right

 

 

 

after some testing around, i think the cause of BM currently doing equal to superior threat to most dpsers and WAY more threat than other tanks is not because raw damage itself, but because of Wild Crush and the current DoT dmg bug (my wild crush dmg at rank 10 does 1.6k every 2 secs)

 

i wont deny BM damage was buffed, but i don`t think is that way high to severely out agro everyone else (my higest crit with brutal strike to date have been 28k being full chaos, and i heard rogues and sins saying that they constantly crit for over 30k, and i still outagro them) since the AoV rebalance, wild crush has a threat modifier of 200%, so taking my wild crush damage as example, it`s generating 3k threat in DoTs dmg every 2s and close to 8k threat in grizzly form every 2 sec, sum to that my normal dps rotations threat.

 

i think the adding of threat modifier in wild crush was made to efectively allow BM threat to be on par to other tanks and be able to MT, but the current bug with DoTs doing soo much dmg are making them generate way more threat than intended.

 

Edited by ArukaX, 31 December 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[Greven79]

Well, I believe that the +2 defense bonus is correct for Beastmasters, but the VIT bonus from gear ought to be cut down by a factor of 2.5. In other words, a T2 Knight Top shouldn't grant +119 VIT, but only +48 VIT. If done with every gear and all enemies, all classes and monster would drop back to their original life total, resulting in a balanced game where a single stat point in VIT is twice as valuable as it was before.... maybe even making VIT runes competetive to STR or AGI runes.

 

If you look at this my way, the defense bonus for beastmasters would also be cut down by a factor of 2.5. Where he gets 2000k defense right now, he'd would get a bonus of 800 after the fix. It's still quite much, but far away from being broken.

 

Of course, I'd also like to see Grizzly Form adjusted. If it would grant less HP, but more defense, it would be fine, if the beastmaster would gain extra HP from VIT as a class-specialty instead. This would keep the DPS bear at a low defense, but higher HP value... not sure which solution is better though

 

 

Edited by Greven79, 05 January 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[Greven79]

after some testing around, i think the cause of BM currently doing equal to superior threat to most dpsers and WAY more threat than other tanks is not because raw damage itself, but because of Wild Crush and the current DoT dmg bug (my wild crush dmg at rank 10 does 1.6k every 2 secs)

 

Keep in mind that my Warrior can achieve 1k DoT damage using Head Crush. Therefore 1.6k DoT isn't that much. I don't know if the healing effects on skills cause additional threat as well (similar to the Highness Heal of a Priest). This would explain a vast amount of the beastmaster threat as well.
 

[1987130502183006863]

i knew someone who was beastmaster of my level, he told me he did THE WHOLE DUNGEON OF HIS LEVEL BY HIMSELF WITHOUT POTS OR ANYTHING. He prooved it because he tanked a boss without help or anything, just by himself. Ofc he took alot, but he did by himself.

 

now with this update:

 

-tanks are practicely not needed on parties

-BM doesn't need parties anymore

 

game has gotten trully easy right now, you can kill 3 mobs of ur level or superior at the same time without needing healing at all.

 

[Lukiner]

i knew someone who was beastmaster of my level, he told me he did THE WHOLE DUNGEON OF HIS LEVEL BY HIMSELF WITHOUT POTS OR ANYTHING. He prooved it because he tanked a boss without help or anything, just by himself. Ofc he took alot, but he did by himself.

 

now with this update:

 

-tanks are practicely not needed on parties

-BM doesn't need parties anymore

 

game has gotten trully easy right now, you can kill 3 mobs of ur level or superior at the same time without needing healing at all.

 

try to do the same thing with monk... no self heal so he can't solo everything like OP BMs, no tons of dmg because bugged spiritual cadence and -10% from iron skin, no agi in gear so no lots of dodge, hit and crit, no VIT into DEF scaling, no personal/party strong buffs, should I say more? BM and Monks pre AoV were low tier classes... now only monks are only low tier and BM are godly

[zelgads]

try to do the same thing with monk... no self heal so he can't solo everything like OP BMs, no tons of dmg because bugged spiritual cadence and -10% from iron skin, no agi in gear so no lots of dodge, hit and crit, no VIT into DEF scaling, no personal/party strong buffs, should I say more? BM and Monks pre AoV were low tier classes... now only monks are only low tier and BM are godly

 

Monk's Bugs will fix soon, i hope. And with add of AoE ability, Monk will be one of Best, if not the Best (forget bears), tank of this game.

 

I think BM will get a nerf on DEF scale. No way a class in dps mode can still tank better than other tanks. i agree that BMs need more def in pre-AoV, but the buffs are too OP, and yet, with damage output and self healing, the bears become to much OP. Raid with 10 BMs? this is enough proof  of unbalanced class now. 

 

Knight will become the worst tank class now, a least on the way that patchs are coming, less damage, less def, less mobility and nerf on shields. 

[jellopyking]

 

I think BM will get a nerf on DEF scale. No way a class in dps mode can still tank better than other tanks. i agree that BMs need more def in pre-AoV, but the buffs are too OP, and yet, with damage output and self healing, the bears become to much OP.

 

 

[ArukaX]

Keep in mind that my Warrior can achieve 1k DoT damage using Head Crush. Therefore 1.6k DoT isn't that much. I don't know if the healing effects on skills cause additional threat as well (similar to the Highness Heal of a Priest). This would explain a vast amount of the beastmaster threat as well.
 

 

i know 1.6k isnt that much, but BM DoT has now a threat modifier formula of 200%, so that 1.6k dot is actually 3k threat per tick in dps, and over 8k in tank form

 

the threat problem can be easily fixed with fixing the DoTs damage. thats basically the issue with it: insane DoT dmg+ 200-500% addittional threat: huge threat.

 

the immortality is indeed too op too. atleast for dps shouldnt be that high, my solution would be that BMs get only 1 def from vit while in human/bear form, and 2 while in grizzly form.

 

or putting a CD to cruel bite, though imho wouldnt be too good either because cruel bite is now a must spam skill in BM rotation now in order to reset brutal strike dmg

 

my solution to cruel bite heal would be either leaving the dmg as it is, but reducing his heal. or making it heal only when boundary of nature or predator instincs are activated

Edited by ArukaX, 06 January 2014 - 07:05 AM.

[zelgads]

the immortality is indeed too op too. atleast for dps shouldnt be that high, my solution would be that BMs get only 1 def from vit while in human/bear form, and 2 while in grizzly form.

 

 

IMO, in DPS form, BMs should not have vit/def scale. If they are on mele dps mode like SINs and Rogues,they have to share def, so its same gear already, no need def bonus here.

 

 

In Tank mode, the vit=2 def is still OP, cause BMs have more that defence, its about 65% more HP and quite good healing skills. I think that a vit/def scale is something cool on grizzy, but not with these numbers, maybe 1vit-1def is enough, or something like monks def modifiers on grizzy mode.

 

Anyway IMO.

Edited by zelgads, 06 January 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Lukiner]

Monk's Bugs will fix soon, i hope. And with add of AoE ability, Monk will be one of Best, if not the Best (forget bears), tank of this game.

 

I think BM will get a nerf on DEF scale. No way a class in dps mode can still tank better than other tanks. i agree that BMs need more def in pre-AoV, but the buffs are too OP, and yet, with damage output and self healing, the bears become to much OP. Raid with 10 BMs? this is enough proof  of unbalanced class now. 

 

Knight will become the worst tank class now, a least on the way that patchs are coming, less damage, less def, less mobility and nerf on shields. 

 

but bug fixes won't change fact that monks are lacking lots of other stuff: dps stance, party buffs, self heal.. look at other bruisers/tanks in RO2, knight, warrs and bms have all this kind of stuff... we can't go pure DPS because we must have perma steel body on that give us armor (if you are not aware monks are using cloth armor not light/heave armor) and it takes away 10% of our attack

 

also lmao on AoE making monk best tank xD you need to max this skill to make it hit 10 enemies, while warrior and knight aoe skills always hit 10 enemies even on lv1, also monk aoe on max lv still have 3 second cooldown and guess what? BM aoe on max lv do same damage while it don't have cooldown + BM have also aoe stun that works on 10 monster

 

also stupid weird reason Gravity removed aoe content from Heavy Tackle so it's another punch in the face for monks

 

 

atm people who play monk should totally reconsider changing character based how they want to play monk

 

if dps monk -> just make Assassin (tons of dmg + party buff + self buff + herp derp low cd self heal + amazing damage reduction skill + speed boost + cc + blink attack + ...) or in the end even Rogue

 

if tank monk -> just make BM and faceroll everything as best tank in this game (lots of tankiness even in dps form + self heal + part buffs + can solo dungeons + ...) or in the end Warrior/Knight

[zelgads]

but bug fixes won't change fact that monks are lacking lots of other stuff: dps stance, party buffs, self heal.. look at other bruisers/tanks in RO2, knight, warrs and bms have all this kind of stuff... we can't go pure DPS because we must have perma steel body on that give us armor (if you are not aware monks are using cloth armor not light/heave armor) and it takes away 10% of our attack

 

also lmao on AoE making monk best tank xD you need to max this skill to make it hit 10 enemies, while warrior and knight aoe skills always hit 10 enemies even on lv1, also monk aoe on max lv still have 3 second cooldown and guess what? BM aoe on max lv do same damage while it don't have cooldown + BM have also aoe stun that works on 10 monster

 

also stupid weird reason Gravity removed aoe content from Heavy Tackle so it's another punch in the face for monks

 

 

atm people who play monk should totally reconsider changing character based how they want to play monk

 

if dps monk -> just make Assassin (tons of dmg + party buff + self buff + herp derp low cd self heal + amazing damage reduction skill + speed boost + cc + blink attack + ...) or in the end even Rogue

 

if tank monk -> just make BM and faceroll everything as best tank in this game (lots of tankiness even in dps form + self heal + part buffs + can solo dungeons + ...) or in the end Warrior/Knight

 

 

About self heal, only BMs and warriors have a good one, knight heal is junk, a least they fix this.

 

About AoE. Knight Aoe is not good like seems, animation is too long and imobility, besides, is a hell lag generator for parties, believe me, if i use all the time, my party will hate me. So the 3 seconds is not that bad. If u are a tank  Lightning Crush is a quite good one, 280% more 100% agroo is 560%, enough to maintain mobs hate on u. But i dont know about animation issues.

 

About party buffs, maybe make throw sphere to increase damage of all members ( even a litlle) is a good start. 

 

IMO BMs will be nerf i think, to much OP and best tanker, maybe class, in this days.

 

I dont see DPS monks, but i think, that these ones will no use steel body, and stay only with iron skin( 50%) do reach on melee dps defence( SINs and Rogues). 

 

[jellopyking]

IMO, in DPS form, BMs should not have vit/def scale. If they are on mele dps mode like SINs and Rogues,they have to share def, so its same gear already, no need def bonus here.

 

 

In Tank mode, the vit=2 def is still OP, cause BMs have more that defence, its about 65% more HP and quite good healing skills. I think that a vit/def scale is something cool on grizzy, but not with these numbers, maybe 1vit-1def is enough, or something like monks def modifiers on grizzy mode.

 

Anyway IMO.

 

it's hard to suggest or conclude anything with everything broken atm..

in the current state of the game, i agree bms are somewhat op

 

this was me in dps form out threating the tanks

 

 

but its usefulness ends there, defense doesnt even matter these days with the massive hp buff everyone's gotten..

it isnt even in the slightest noticable in colo.. always get wedged here and there

 

bottom line is, everything's a joke atm

 

and i dont expect them to fix this joke anytime soon, looking at the dev's history on these kinda things and the sheer difficulty of finding the culprit of mystery bugs, especially with the size of a program such as a game's. i dont diss the skills of the developwers, i just acknowledge that ingame numbers/values f00king up at this scale is a colossal challenge to fix, let alone pin point.

 

but before suggesting nerfs tho, u have to take into consideration variable changes..

if they cut the hp back to normal, bears will definitely need that defense boost.

[zelgads]

it's hard to suggest or conclude anything with everything broken atm..

in the current state of the game, i agree bms are somewhat op

 

this was me in dps form out threating the tanks

 

 

but its usefulness ends there, defense doesnt even matter these days with the massive hp buff everyone's gotten..

it isnt even in the slightest noticable in colo.. always get wedged here and there

 

bottom line is, everything's a joke atm

 

and i dont expect them to fix this joke anytime soon, looking at the dev's history on these kinda things and the sheer difficulty of finding the culprit of mystery bugs, especially with the size of a program such as a game's. i dont diss the skills of the developwers, i just acknowledge that ingame numbers/values f00king up at this scale is a colossal challenge to fix, let alone pin point.

 

but before suggesting nerfs tho, u have to take into consideration variable changes..

if they cut the hp back to normal, bears will definitely need that defense boost.

 

In maintance  JAN/08 nothing told about nerf BMs, so i think nothing is change, for while a least.

Not my inttention make BM a worst class, but surelly, vit scale on def in this proportion , is making BM OP. gravity is change porpose about BM as a tank class, before its based in large hp pool and healing skills, but now, give bm the most def off all classes, and still keep large hp pool and healing skills. enven in dps form, BM still have a lot of defence, so wjy the other dps melee class? SIns, rogues, warriors, (monks? i confess i never see one).

 

I agree, AoV make game hell on some way and at same time piece of cake in others, and this is not good. But, it surelly that BM class have to be fix soon or later, if they dont nerf something on BMS, they will buff entire other class, that's way the game will be more easy than ever and soon, they will buff mobs, so that a nerf in other words.

 

Like said before, i think vit scale on def is a cool way to make bm tank better, i just not sure about numbers. And its not just about nerf this or that, is about make a good class to play, not OP not weak. 

[jellopyking]

^ tbh, the whole new stat bonus table thingy is.. uh, meh.. ugly.

 

instead of nerfing a single class, why not create a better system that will benefit everyone?

so far, the table cells only have 1 stat and 1 bonus per class

my idea is:

 

vit = gives added defense to all characters but more to tank classes, e.g. +1 vit to wizard gives him +2 defense : +1 vit to knight gives him + 4 defense

agi = gives everyone crit, dodge and hit. but more hit rate to rangers, more dodge to thief classes and increased haste rate to magic classes

int = increased matk and vigor rate to all classes

etc..

 

and bms are really only op if they pure build, what i mean by that is with the increased level of some skills, ur gon have to make decisions and trade offs

so far, ive managed to have different skill builds

 

a. PvE pure DPS

b. PvE pure tank

c. PvP pure DPS

c. mix <- colo (this will be my final build when 1z skill resets cease to exist)

 

while a pure dps bm has the dps skills, he wont invest in the tanky skills such as heal, none of the stun and knowck down skills either, no gap closer either - this build's hopeless in colo

but it's difficult to conclude anything unless tested properly

like i said before, everything is a joke atm, cant even know for sure if BM is OP in colo too because of the ranger problem

Edited by jellopyking, 08 January 2014 - 04:38 AM.

[zelgads]

^ tbh, the whole new stat bonus table thingy is.. uh, meh.. ugly.

 

 

The point is that status scale table be diferent for each class is a cool ideia. RO2 have a big lack IMO, all class is almost the same, sure, we have differ in gears and damage output, but yet, is quite similar in some aspects.

 

All classes have some count bar, like aura,rage,pyromanc,beast, combo, sphere .........do u get it.

 

All have some maximun damage skill, able to do when gauge is full ( pre-AoV even damage modifier is the same).

On tanks all have some mitigation skill by 50%-100% with big CD.

 

The table is in one way a good ideia, make class more dependent on Status Build.

 

IMO, gravity mistakes are the number and the way it was made the table.

 

Fisrt, i agree with you, not only one but more status could be used to make more flexibility.

 

But, i think that the great mistake is the fact that most of the contribution of status already fixed by equips used.

 

Swordies use heavy armor, Arches/Thiefs Lightarmors Acos/Mages cloth.

 

More than 80% of the status is already set by equips, not let many options do make a real status build like RO1. 

 

They need balance even attributes itself, Agi now make more then essential for all class, hit, dogge and crit on same attributes is ridiculous.

 

The def mechanic is too simple too, some X def is equal Y% of damage mitigation, no caps, no curve, just like a linear increase, i think gravity can do better than this, and really RO2 need more attention and action do fix so many errors.