154 replies to this topic

[Ralis]

Inspiration I can see being undispellable, but Reflect Damage can just be recast right away, so doesn't make much sense.

[LordVader]

Inspiration I can see being undispellable, but Reflect Damage can just be recast right away, so doesn't make much sense.

Doesn't even have an icon. Hell, half the time I can't tell if it's on myself.

This skill is intended to be immune to dispel. Honestly, we are one of the few classes where the majority of our buffs are dispellable. The buffs that are removed via dispel are already crippling enough as it is. Don't try to add more to the list. Can eat a whole sp bar trying to get the right Shield Spell buff, I will much rather that be immune to dispel than RD if we can make a trade I'm game for it. But just asking for a nerf on a balanced skill seems odd to me. Just saying.

Also doesn't RD cancel if shield is divested/broken? With Masquerade Weakness in game, there is no reason to say it's impossible to remove shields even if coated and wearing sacred mission.

[Nombus]

Masquerade Weakness and Clearance should not be the only means of taking down RD. Item Coating and a sacred mission is not exactly a difficult WoE manoeuvre and , even without it, it's overly difficult to remove Reflect Damage. RD should be dispellable, just as Shield Reflect and Defending Aura are, as it is an essential tactic in killing any Royal Guard.

Why is it essential?
- Because their HP is so high that no range damage could take them down before they get Defending Aura back up.
- Because anyone killing with Melee will do massive dmg to themselves while trying to survive the added dmg from an RGs skills.
- Because the only class left that has the dmg output to kill that with Ranged AoE is Genetic, and even then they're going to kill their guild if the RG is in range of them, which it is overly difficult not to be.

The swordie class needs a serious overview in regards to their damage vs. survivability.

[MeisterKirisaki]

Reflect Damage was given to Royal Guards to make it very hard to bring them down without getting hurt yourself if you're careless or reckless. They still die, and if they lose their shield (usually thanks to Shadow Chasers because Coating doesn't help against Masquerade), then the Royal Guard is dead soon after if you have a team that communicates and kills him before he's able to BC and get his shield back on along with shield skills.

There are many ways to disable Royal Guards if they really are the main concern, I usually lose my shield + weapon instantly when facing certain people, but I would never ask for a nerf to such characters only because they could outplay me.

Edited by MeisterKirisaki, 31 January 2011 - 01:03 PM.

[heyxsean]

Reflect Damage was given to Royal Guards to make it very hard to bring them down without getting hurt yourself if you're careless or reckless. They still die, and if they lose their shield (usually thanks to Shadow Chasers because Coating doesn't help against Masquerade), then the Royal Guard is dead soon after if you have a team that communicates and kills him before he's able to BC and get his shield back on along with shield skills.

There are many ways to disable Royal Guards if they really are the main concern, I usually lose my shield + weapon instantly when facing certain people, but I would never ask for a nerf to such characters only because they could outplay me.

Can you tell me where it says RD was given to make RGs difficult to kill ? O.O RD does not make RGs difficult to kill, defending aura does. RD just makes it scary to stand next to them because all they have to do is walk around, pot take dmg and watch people drop from all the incoming dmg that's being reflected off of them.

[MeisterKirisaki]

Please read my sentence again, thank you.

[heyxsean]

From what I see from your post is...you need a group to take down one RG That's not being outplayed, that is just gang rape...and even with a group...you're saying masquarade is the only way to defeat RD yeah...so, yeah...hope you got a SC with you otherwise hope the RG is an idiot...if you don't see how stupid a reflecting aoe is on a char with 50k+ hp taking 5k+ from a bunch of different sources and 40% of all that damage going toward a mob of people who most will have way less hp than the rg is unbalanced, then I don't know what to say.

[MeisterKirisaki]

I also don't really know what to say to people who seem to specialise in some lazy kind of selective reading. It should be boring for you too when you force me to write again what I've written already, so please try at least to read and process everything in my post, even if it's bad English, and it is bad English, but I at least try while you do not.

No, Reflect Damage doesn't help a Royal Guard to stay alive longer per se, I said Reflect Damage was given to Royal Guards to make it very hard to bring them down without getting hurt yourself if you're careless or reckless.

No, Masquerade is not the only skill to disable Royal Guards, I said There are many ways to disable Royal Guards [...] - please don't expect me to tell you all the ways how to do it.

If you think Reflect Damage is overpowered in WoE, then that's your opinion. You have yours (playing your Sorcerer), others have theirs (playing their Royal Guard). Yes Royal Guards are strong and you don't want them in your mob of guildies, but other guilds could manage to adapt and focus on Royal Guards so they are removed from the battle field fast or at least kept away from mobs of people or don't take damage they could reflect.

Perhaps it's better you actually don't say anything about a class you don't really ... well ... know?

[heyxsean]

I also don't really know what to say to people who seem to specialise in some lazy kind of selective reading. It should be boring for you too when you force me to write again what I've written already, so please try at least to read and process everything in my post, even if it's bad English, and it is bad English, but I at least try while you do not.

No, Reflect Damage doesn't help a Royal Guard to stay alive longer per se, I said Reflect Damage was given to Royal Guards to make it very hard to bring them down without getting hurt yourself if you're careless or reckless.

No, Masquerade is not the only skill to disable Royal Guards, I said There are many ways to disable Royal Guards [...] - please don't expect me to tell you all the ways how to do it.

If you think Reflect Damage is overpowered in WoE, then that's your opinion. You have yours (playing your Sorcerer), others have theirs (playing their Royal Guard). Yes Royal Guards are strong and you don't want them in your mob of guildies, but other guilds could manage to adapt and focus on Royal Guards so they are removed from the battle field fast or at least kept away from mobr s of people or don't take damage they could reflect.

Perhaps it's better you actually don't say anything about a class you don't really ... well ... know?

Could you name another way other than masquarade to get of rid of reflect damage...you're just saying "many ways" but you really don't know any other way

If you actually clicked on the other link, you'd know I play an rg, so I do know how stupid RD is...

[LordVader]

Could you name another way other than masquarade to get of rid of reflect damage...you're just saying "many ways" but you really don't know any other way

If you actually clicked on the other link, you'd know I play an rg, so I do know how stupid RD is...

I know of 4 different ways to remove RD from a RG who has coats and sacred mission (lots more if no coats/SM). That's also 4 different classes that can disable it. So honestly, if you don't have either of these 4 classes in your guild to help battle with a RG then it's not the fault of the RG. Just time to do more recruiting or leveling because the skills are there. You just have to learn to use them to be honest.

P.S.- RG that is using RD in a mob of your guild mates, might want to STOP attacking them until you have them disabled. Just a rule of thumb.

[LethalJokeChar]

I know of 4 different ways to remove RD from a RG who has coats and sacred mission (lots more if no coats/SM). That's also 4 different classes that can disable it. So honestly, if you don't have either of these 4 classes in your guild to help battle with a RG then it's not the fault of the RG. Just time to do more recruiting or leveling because the skills are there. You just have to learn to use them to be honest.

P.S.- RG that is using RD in a mob of your guild mates, might want to STOP attacking them until you have them disabled. Just a rule of thumb.

Yeah, just sit there like ducks and let them vanishing point/overbrand you all to death, delivering hits 3x a second.

[Akin]

Three things for me:

First, as others have stated, please add the buff icon for Reflect Damage.

Second, make a new effect for Rage Counters given by Force of Vanguard. If I have counters up and a monk/champ/sura gives me spheres, I can no longer correctly tell the number of Rage Counters I have until I get hit and receive a new Rage Counter (And that's only if I had less than 15).

Thirdly, I know everyone thinks RGs are already OP and don't need buffs, but I feel that the 150 SP cost of Burst Attack is a bit much considering the damage when comparing it to other skills like CS or PPA, their SP costs, and the constant SP drain of Force of Vanguard. Looking through all the 3rd class single target skills, only Tetra Vortex and Gate of Hell cost more, and Burst Attack is never talked about like those two skills. Even Hesperus Lit has a lower SP cost.

[MagicHands]

The only reason RD should be despellable is because all one would have to do is walk into a large pre-cast and wait for someone to fist him, because the likely hood of someone killing a good RG with anything else is unlikely. Its true that most classes benefit from wearing a Tao Gunka, but RG's become almost impossible to kill almost every class. Half a guild should not have problems killing one RG. Oh and the reason people say RG's are OP is because they are. I do agree with having a timer with RD like any other buff it should have its own as well.

[Kaelum]

Here are my thoughts on RG, as an RG. I am actually surprised how powerful RG are in WoE. Paladin and Crusader are supposed to be mainly a defense class with a few powerful hits. But RG seem to be both: Super powerful, and High defensive skills. This is going to be long, but I believe it to be very much worth the read. It will also respond to some of the others posts ( I did not read ALL of them, but I scimmed through most of them).

1. There needs to be an icon for reflect damage. Seriously, its really annoying and you can never tell if you have reflect on in WoE or not. If only one thing were changed for RGs this should be it.

2. Reflect damage should not proc ring effects, or it should cancel out kahii. RG mobbing is beyond ridiculous and just way too over powered for PvM. RG's can mob entire maps with seemingly no problem. For instance I was in Bio2 the other day and a RG walked by with what I swear to be 30 monsters on him. I really wish I had sreenied it. In the end it severely effects the leveling of other players on the same maps and should be nerfed in some way, for PVM, *not* WoE. IMO this skill is perfectly fine for WoE.

3. Overbrand needs to be fixed to effect a 3x3 area or something instead of this "Cross pattern" that is currently used. With the amount of position lag that iRO servers produce I can OB a monster from 6 different angles and not hit it, only to find that it is actually 4 cells to the left of my character.

Also with OB, in WoE they should NOT hit 3 times. Only 2 times, and for reduced damage. This skill is way too spammable to hit that many times for the amount of damage it is. I donâ??t think that this is the main concern for RG balancing though as I donâ??t actually see that many people die to OB during siegeâ?¦

4. There needs to be an icon for reflect damage. Yes, I said it twice. THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ICON!

6. Fix exceed break. It does MASSIVE amounts of damage at the same rate as a monk can spam g-fist. You should not be able to charge up exceed with a heavy weapon and then switch to glorious to ignore armor. (As a side note, I still think glorious should not ignore that much defenseâ?¦but thatâ??s a whole different story).

7. Lastly, Pinpoint shouldn't be a damaging skill in WoE. Even with the delay, its pretty useless in PVM. This should be a skill purely for breaking gears so that more damage can be done by skills after the damage has occured. IMO PPA at lvl 5 can easily drop a squishy char. Damge should be more like 100% at lvl 1, and 200% at lvl 5.

[AnimeHeart]

I think they are too overpowered because in two hours a RG from lvl 101 he lvled to 112 or somewhere there

[Viri]

Pretty sure you could do that on like... any class that isn't an AB or GX lol

[SethTheSecond]

Heres some changes i would i to see for the royal guard class

1. Everyone's said this before, but, please add a icon for reflect damage please. The icon exists out there, so tell me why it exists?

2. Exceed break should cancel on weapon switch. Seriously, the reason why this skill is so powerful is that you can use exceed break with a heavy weapon, and then switch to something that increases damage against demi humans like a BG or KVM spear, and just do rediculous damage. If you were just limited to the heavy weapon,it would probably do a lot less than if you were exceed break with a heavy weapon and switching to a demi human weapon.

3.Reflect damage is fine. With kaahi, however it is NOT. getting buffed with kaahi should cancel reflect damage, and casting reflect damage should cancel kaahi. (Although this would make linked linkers a good debuffer against RGs in woe. Hmm.)
Also, i would like to see TWO HANDED SHIELDS in this game, and have it affect reflect damage. KRO mentioned somewhere that originally there was supposed to be 2 handed shields when royal guards came out. What happened to that? If in the future, I would like two handed shields to be implemented, i would like to have reflect damage to this instead.
With 1 handed shield: Reflects 20% short range physical damage, and 20% of the damage taken is reflected in a area around you. (How this works: Say you got gfisted for 100k damage. The shura would take 20k damage from the 1st portion of reflect damage, and then take 20k damage from the AOE portion of reflect damage. This would total 40k to the shura. Everyone else around the RG in a 5x5 range would take 20k damage. I say 20% normal reflect and 20% aoe reflect, is so that reflect damage isn't inferior to shield reflect.)
With 2 handed shield: the 20% of the damage reflected to single targets is canceled, and instead, reflect damage will reflect 60% of all damage incoming to a area 7x7 around the royal guard. - My reasoning is: i want royal guards to either go full offensive, or full defensive. If you leave a fully defensive RG alone, he wouldn't be able to do any damage to you, since he wouldn't be able to use an weapon. And those using a weapon wouldn't be exceedingly good at defensive abilities as well. You can have a balance this way, but then you won't be able to maximize the effects of the skill that way. Removing the shield will cancel reflect damage. Give reflect damage a 5 second reuse delay. DON'T make it dispellable, we're supposed to be third class, our skills are supposed to be better than our previous skills(shield reflect vs reflect damage).

4. Defending aura: Give it a few more effects that would cripple offensive abilities. You're entering the ultimate defensive mode, so it would make sense if it sacrifices your offensive capabilites,right? Make it decrease your attack power by 20% when you have this buff up or something. The main thing about royal guards is they have TOO much defensive capabilites while being one of the top tier damage dealers as well. Make it so you can only do either 1 at a time: extremely offensive or extremely defensive, but not BOTH at the same time.

Edited by SethTheSecond, 01 May 2011 - 12:58 PM.

[Ralis]

Until they nerf Monk class' Mental Strength, any kind of debuff to Crusader class' defensive skills would be a joke. DA already makes you walk at the speed of snail, it doesn't need anything else.

[Andini]

you're comparing DA and mental strength? lol................

[Kadnya]

Until they nerf Monk class' Mental Strength, any kind of debuff to Crusader class' defensive skills would be a joke. DA already makes you walk at the speed of snail, it doesn't need anything else.

A monk in MS moves at the same speed as a sader with DA. The sader can however use skills, has no aspd penalty, and cancel the status manually, the monk can not.

[Ralis]

Only once maxed is there no penalty and the max resistance, which is 80% reduction of ranged damage. It doesn't matter about the level for Mental Strength, however... That only affects the duration. The reduction is what, 25% ASPD? ALL damage doing 10% (not to mention bonuses from Defense, Assumptio, etc.), even without the use of skills, seems a little better than DA to me.

At least in the case of PvM, it's a little disconcerting that Suras are not only the best for damage output, but also for tanking. Though there I go again, talking about PvM like anyone on these forums cares about it. /facepalm

[GuardianTK]

Only once maxed is there no penalty and the max resistance, which is 80% reduction of ranged damage. It doesn't matter about the level for Mental Strength, however... That only affects the duration. The reduction is what, 25% ASPD? ALL damage doing 10% (not to mention bonuses from Defense, Assumptio, etc.), even without the use of skills, seems a little better than DA to me.

At least in the case of PvM, it's a little disconcerting that Suras are not only the best for damage output, but also for tanking. Though there I go again, talking about PvM like anyone on these forums cares about it. /facepalm

Yeah, but the point is that RG's are still able to attack effectively even with DA on. Suras can not do anything else other than tank the moment they enter MS mode. Well....aside from melee ctrl'ing things, but what good does that do compared to how RG's can still use skills? Better yet, use a good charged Exceed Break and then activate DA before rushing someone/something.

This is a bad comparison between skills, Ralis.

RG branch weren't meant to be tanker+attackers all in one package in pre-renewal. Sadly, Renewal ruined this aspect. It's pretty retarded that a class can play both roles pretty effectively. Earth Drive = Ganb effect. DA reduces ranged attack damage, while still allowing you to use your skills at the cost of movement and aspd reduction? As well as having Shield Reflect and Reflect Damage on. Inspiration? Have you seen how TI84+ uses lv 1 BC to cancel out all negative statuses he receives before rushing someone again?

[Ralis]

My entire point is I'd rather see the offensive skills nerfed rather than the defensive. I chose to play the class to be a tank, not a heavy hitter anyway.

Also, TK, your entire second big paragraph can be said for Suras as well. XD

[Trini]

Earth Drive is a great skill, but the chance of breaking shield is fairly high and can get quite annoying sometimes when you're in a dungeon or instance and lose your shield. A great fix to this would be to lower the chance drastically or just completely remove that effect.

You are intended to use slave or party for FCP or use a Sacred Mission and awesome weapon.

PS: Even without using Sacred Mission occasionally my shield was never broken by Earth Drive. The chance is already only 5%. Regardless of the chance to break you can't afford for your shield to break when leveling so just use a sacred mission or FCP slave.

Earth Drive AoE does not seem to be 7x7 as they say in the description at higher levels and it does no seem to last 15 seconds as it says in wiki. I expected it to be like Sever rainstorm but it seems like level 2 and 5 are almost the same thing. Additionally if you get position lag the skill misses and if a monster walks onto Earth Drive after it has shown the earth coming up that monster s not hit even while other monsters are still receiving damage (unlike Sever Rainstorm).

[Trini]

For hose with RD icon issues i also have the same problem but, I cast paladin Shield Reflect right before i cast each RD so that I KNOW it is on.

Please give us an Icon for RD.