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#51 heyxsean

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 10:54 PM

Third classes are buffed up because they were stupidly made immune to Scholar skills like c'mon.
1. Dispell description is to debuff...oh wait :lol: RGs/RKs/Suras are magically immune to dispell now and can get off their strongest skills with no worries.
2. Magnetic Earth blocks ground based magic...oh wait :wub: Warlocks/RK skills bypass this because wait what :unsure: their skills target the ground...
3. Fixed cast time fixes pre-renewal's issue with instant casting spells...oh wait now every other class has instant and random uninterruptable (i.e. dragon breath and clashing spiral) and mage classes are going through hell trying to get one spell off just to do laughable damage...have to pray your enemy is an idiot and just watches your 5 second skill go off.

I love my Sorceror but iono if you want to balance this class then at least make its cast uninterruptable or hell give 100% chance of causing Freeze status with diamond dust or something completely random like immunity to all elements because it is completely retarded that their skills no longer function as the description reads...
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#52 Trixdee

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 08:23 PM

Might as well change soul exhale back to how it was now that we have this +9 KVM fist debacle. You basically nerfed it for no reason now.
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#53 Mefistofeles

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 01:45 PM

Ignoring PVP and WOE,why skills like diamond dust, arrullo and stun chance of psychic wave dont do their effect? diamond dust dont do coold mode, arrullo dont sleep, psychic wave dont stun , why warlocks can do their freeing status to monsters? why dragons breath can do that fire effect? and all sorcerers effects are nerfed? plssssssssssssssssssssss make em work in PVM too, also psychic wave dont do the stun chance even in pvp and woe, READ THE DESCRIPTION of psychic wave
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#54 Mefistofeles

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:20 PM

Vacum extreme............its not glitched anymore for pvp but.... WHY I CANT USE IT IN ALMOST ALL DUNGEONS AND FIELDS? why? i dont care if never got fixed this skill, but i want an answer from any GM saying why vacum extreme is usless in PVM dungeons and fields and the other sorcerers skills too.
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#55 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:09 PM

I agree, EV needs to be re-reviewed period.

Also I don't think Wind Spirit Ventus level 3 in Defensive Mode is properly working.

Zephyr: Creates a barrier of wind around the summoner. Within the barrier it increases evasion and blocks ranged attacks. Also has a small chance to completely block phsyical and magic damage.

And can we please look into buffing their stats a bit, even level 5 spirit sympathy is still pathetic, they might as well be made of glass, these things are expensive to summon.
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#56 RegalPrime

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:51 PM

Unlike most, I use spell fist A LOT and I think I found a nice easy way to buff it which involves little changes.

Spell fist should increase in damage based on level like most 3rd class skills (I really dont know if this is already in or not, the damage swings so much its hard to tell). Most classes get about a 25% bonus at level 150 but I would suggest 50% at level 150.

Spell fist NEEDS to ignore magic defense plain and simple. Its extremely risky to charge melee mode with a sorcerer as it is but later (and higher mgdef monsters) its even more painful.
I tend to find monsters I think I can X-Hit them only to find it takes me an extra hit when I get there (a bit annoying since you only get 6 attacks).
I also have to mention, to do decent damage you have to use a 2Handed weapon which includes extra risks.

Finally put in the kro fix that allows for casting other skills during the duration of spell fist (as of now, spell fist last forever, but is cancled if you cast any other spell).

Finally, finally, we need imp/siroma cards, but for lightning bolt. New 3rd class skills outshine plain old lighting bolt so its not an issue of balance anymore.

Edited by RegalPrime, 07 January 2011 - 09:53 PM.

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#57 Nombus

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:07 AM

While I haven't been, I'm beginning to notice that Sorcerers are often better off playing in WoE as they were most often played Pre-Renewal (Stacking Vit and defensive gears to focus on disabling and defending). Their Damage is lacking overall considering the time required to use these skills. They suffer from the same dilemma as all Matk users; their damage is rarely worth the time and vulnerability caused by their use (Attempting to do reasonable damage on a scorcerer is no longer possible without using 2 handed staffs). Not to mention most magic is forced element, making it easy to negate its damage by a simple armor switch.

PvM wise I find myself constantly vastly out DPSed by other classes despite the time required to get skills off. MvPing is a concrete example of how a Matk class is incapable of competing with physical classes. There is a definite need to return to pre-renewal state where magic was something to be feared. As of right now, the idea of mdef, and elemental considerations for spells is all but a joke except in the cases of single target magic for Warlocks with large modifiers (Chain lightning, Tetra Vortex), which Sorcererâ??s lack.
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#58 Mefistofeles

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 05:56 PM

While I haven't been, I'm beginning to notice that Sorcerers are often better off playing in WoE as they were most often played Pre-Renewal (Stacking Vit and defensive gears to focus on disabling and defending). Their Damage is lacking overall considering the time required to use these skills. They suffer from the same dilemma as all Matk users; their damage is rarely worth the time and vulnerability caused by their use (Attempting to do reasonable damage on a scorcerer is no longer possible without using 2 handed staffs). Not to mention most magic is forced element, making it easy to negate its damage by a simple armor switch.

PvM wise I find myself constantly vastly out DPSed by other classes despite the time required to get skills off. MvPing is a concrete example of how a Matk class is incapable of competing with physical classes. There is a definite need to return to pre-renewal state where magic was something to be feared. As of right now, the idea of mdef, and elemental considerations for spells is all but a joke except in the cases of single target magic for Warlocks with large modifiers (Chain lightning, Tetra Vortex), which Sorcererâ??s lack.


AGREED, also i love all this reply its awesome, mage classes need a way to ignore MDEF or... get super matk, becouse MEGs give 40 str and Brisi only 10 int? melee atacks can ignore almost all time the DEF with a whole armory and skills, mage class only have a few worthy weapons and just piercing staff can do something about ignore MDEF, but it has a sad MATK, and get HWIZ MVP CARD its.....ummm... imposible? and its the only way to ignore MDEF of PVM
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#59 Mefistofeles

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 10:26 PM

Varetyr spear shouldnt be blocked by magnetic earth,i need to target some 1 to cast it and it can auto cast to near foes other varetyr hits, no?
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#60 RegalPrime

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 04:47 PM

You forget that Sleipnir gives +25int now.
Add in 2 Bris and thats +45int.
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#61 TheSquishy

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 01:19 PM

Sorcerers weren't ever meant to be a high DPS class. They require a certain amount of
skill and are not easily mastered. I play a hingsight/battle build and I can kill efficiently
both player and monster as well as anyone albeit in unconventional ways.

However, 3 real problems exist for the class.

1. Matk is now terrible. I don't think it's all formula but a lot of monsters have mid to high mdef post renewal.
Before Mdef vared greatly so one could choose the low mdef monster. I think as a test certain monsters
(ex. those traditional trained on by mage classes) have their mdef dropped and allow players to rate their
experience. WOE, a sorc should be disabling not killing next point...

2. Skills need to do what they are suppose to do. I'm sure the community can be gathered to help systematically
test what skills are broken and why they aren't working.

3. Summons are very weak and because of drop penalty it is unnecessarily difficult to get items to make them.

I will be looking forward to the spell fist fix.
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#62 Nombus

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 01:56 PM

Sorcerers weren't ever meant to be a high DPS class. They require a certain amount of skill and are not easily mastered. I play a hingsight/battle build and I can kill efficiently both player and monster as well as anyone albeit in unconventional ways.However, 3 real problems exist for the class.1. Matk is now terrible. I don't think it's all formula but a lot of monsters have mid to high mdef post renewal. Before Mdef vared greatly so one could choose the low mdef monster. I think as a test certain monsters (ex. those traditional trained on by mage classes) have their mdef dropped and allow players to rate their experience. WOE, a sorc should be disabling not killing next point...2. Skills need to do what they are suppose to do. I'm sure the community can be gathered to help systematically test what skills are broken and why they aren't working. 3. Summons are very weak and because of drop penalty it is unnecessarily difficult to get items to make them.I will be looking forward to the spell fist fix.


Well it's good that we have you here to tell us what the class is meant to be. Now for a dose of reality.

A great deal of classes have been given disabling skills in WoE that are better than any of a scorcerers. They were also given skills that are very capable of doing heavy damage. Your point was valid for pre-renewal as to scholars, it isn't anymore.

New point in the thread. From my testing in WoE psychic wave and diamond dust do not hit barricades. I do not know about the other AoE skills. I saw no damage animation when doing so, and the barricades seemed to be at full health as the sanct was not healing them. Unless there has been a change with magic to barricades, this should not be happening.
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#63 Mefistofeles

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 04:29 PM

At level 140+ we can do a very good battle against all classes except Mandra.... ups genetic, and gates of.......ups its shura, we need mental stick now! that item is awesome! we need its a way to ignore Mdef in huge amounts (PVM)
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#64 heyxsean

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:25 PM

Arullo lvl 5 is only 4x4...not 7x7...not sure if that's just a description error.
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#65 Frappuccino

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 04:11 PM

arullo is pretty much the entire point of this class.

unblockable, hits you even if you hide, AoE, ignores gtb iirc, AND adds 1.5x damage to the next hit? yeah.

secondary points:

diamond dust's freeze effect - can't move, can't pot, can't use skills, still take damage. a far more annoying disable then manhole.
extreme vacuum - AoE fiber without the extra fire damage. holds longer then fibre. stackable. 'nuff said.

buff sorcerors amirite?
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#66 Mefistofeles

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 10:18 PM

Still really weak damage, huge cast time, what we need? a way to ignore MDEF in huge for PVM, its just sad the damage to MVPs and other monsters and phen card should work in woe, why i say that? becouse CS and DB are uns-topeable in woe, why the other classes can be stoped casting? and they no? and least items like phen gear should work, also skills like PW and diamond dust are not doing their effects in PVM, pw never stun and diamond dust never do coold mode, why DB can burn? and our skills do nothing in PVM? like arrullo, it should work for PVM and vacum extreme cant be used in A LOOT of maps, thats sad! also the effects of sumons are broken, like the skill that make PW into a element(sumon in level 2 casting pasive mode) and the insignia dont reduce the cast time of PW, (PW BECOMES WIND AND WIND INSGNIA REDUCE RE-USE DELAY OF WIND SKILLS) and dont stack =/
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#67 Nombus

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:29 AM

arullo is pretty much the entire point of this class.

unblockable, hits you even if you hide, AoE, ignores gtb iirc, AND adds 1.5x damage to the next hit? yeah.

secondary points:

diamond dust's freeze effect - can't move, can't pot, can't use skills, still take damage. a far more annoying disable then manhole.
extreme vacuum - AoE fiber without the extra fire damage. holds longer then fibre. stackable. 'nuff said.

buff sorcerors amirite?

The entire point? Granted, the skill is quite good, but unlike all the other great disabling skills it is reducible by stats. Further... have you seeing Deep Sleep Lullaby? 21x21 range (screen wide and a solo music skill) and a 98% chance of it working. Sorcerers are not the best users of this status effect by a long shot. Hell, they're not even the best disablers as far as skills that where you can still attack people.

Diamond dust's freeze effect is good but also heavily reducible so long as you have reasonable VIT (which any class that WoEs has now) and are in lvl range. This is one of those skills that is an absolute bane if you are lower lvled than your enemy, but lasts a very short period if you are in range (i.e. watch how long the icon lasts on any monsters in range of you, it's less than a second even on low VIT monsters). Also the skill has decent cooldown like all Sorcerer skills.

Extreme vacuum is not stackable. If you place one down before the last it will not affect the people in it (unless you intermix fiberlock while its goes down). It the duration is heavily reducible by Str. Yes, people can be attacked while in it, and they can also attack you. Its good, but again there are other classes that have skills much like this that have longer durations and are not reducible by stats (ie. Despair Song at 16 seconds vs. 12).

Take a look at Wanderer and Maestro. Their disabling abilities are well beyond that of a sorcerer (a good deal of them are screen wide) and they out damage a sorcerers. Severe Rainstorm alone blows Psychic Wave (the highest damaging skill sorcerer has) out of the water; despite the damage per hit being comparable, Severe rainstorm does 12 hits compared to 7 with a much shorter cast time (3 vs 10) and skill delay (psychic wave has about a 5 second personal skill delay; other sorcerer skills do not come close its damage).

I'll say it again, as the second primary magic user in game one would expect Sorcerer, with their long cast times, to have some level of competition in DPS with the physical AoEs, if not the ability to surpass considering the time required to use the skill and how easily interruptible they are.

TL;DR I took time to point out where sorcerer is surpassed as a disabling class by other classes whoâ??s damage ability is beyond their own. This was done in order to provide a basis where people could realize long casting magic of sorcerer should have a place in WoE as worthwhile DPS whereas it is too weak currently. This problem is found with magic AoE generally and is not limited to the Sorcerer.

Edited by Nombus, 01 February 2011 - 10:11 PM.

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#68 Mefistofeles

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:51 PM

cast time not a problem XD, remenber we have mental stick soon!( a staff 1 hand with 1 slot that reduce cast time of PW by 3 secs- for high leveled sorc with +9 COD of caster its a instant PW- and increases PW damage by 2% each refine level at 6+ with 170 matk level 3) so dont worry about cast time, worry about a way to ignore MDEF IN PVM, also in pvp could be great but cast time its not a problem, sorcs the best balanced class FTW! all melee classes umbalanced will have other insane weapons too =/ and they can always ignore our def, and we cant ignore their MDEF
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#69 Caelum

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 12:45 AM

cast time not a problem XD, remenber we have mental stick soon!( a staff 1 hand with 1 slot that reduce cast time of PW by 3 secs- for high leveled sorc with +9 COD of caster its a instant PW- and increases PW damage by 2% each refine level at 6+ with 170 matk level 3) so dont worry about cast time, worry about a way to ignore MDEF IN PVM, also in pvp could be great but cast time its not a problem, sorcs the best balanced class FTW! all melee classes umbalanced will have other insane weapons too =/ and they can always ignore our def, and we cant ignore their MDEF


I believe insta-cast PW bug will be fixed. Mental stick is only supposed to take off 3 seconds of the variable cast time, not the total (fixed + variable).
I think the main idea of the sorc is already achieved. Lots of ways to disable with magic offensive as backup, but at the cost of slower cast times and DoT damage. If sorcs were buffed offensively there would be no reason to play the lock class. There has to be distinct differences between the 2 mage branches.
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#70 Nombus

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:56 AM

Quick point: even prerenewal scholar was given some highest damage specialty ability; with bolt clips and double bolt they had the highest damaging single target spells. Warlock is now is sole possession of these.

Also, you've not been paying attention to the fact that people are arging for a change in the matk formula. Overall its too weak for all magic users, including Warlock.
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#71 Caelum

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 01:31 PM

Quick point: even prerenewal scholar was given some highest damage specialty ability; with bolt clips and double bolt they had the highest damaging single target spells. Warlock is now is sole possession of these.

Also, you've not been paying attention to the fact that people are arging for a change in the matk formula. Overall its too weak for all magic users, including Warlock.


Doesn't change the fact that class balance does not equal "give every class offensive potential." This is an mmorpg, there needs to be class roles. We need classes that kill but can't tank, and classes that can tank but can't kill. And any single target and AoE damage done by a caster class in renewal is trumped by the AoE and single target damage of the physical classes.

I agree that matk needs buffed, but buffing matk isn't enough. The way that skills work is what's broken the most about renewal. Right now it's all about who can spam the most instacast skills the fastest. Skills with cast time should be much more devastating than insta-cast skills, and skills that require comboing AND have cast should be the most devastating skills in the game.

Right now I see Sorcs as one of the most balanced classes in terms of skill production. They have offensive skills that aren't overly powerful and they have great disabling abilities when stacked. What hurt them the most was 90% of their 2nd class and trans skills becoming worthless due to changed mechanics or -_-ed up cast times. But if you look at it, the same proves true for almost all 2nd class skills for almost all classes. The exceptions are AB, Gfist, and CS...all which where buffed by renewal either thru direct mod or by natural progression. For all the other classes, the 3rd skills out shined the 2nd and trans so much that they completely replaced them and Sorcs aren't the only ones in this boat.
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#72 Mefistofeles

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:39 PM

GMS NEVER DO SOMETHING SO I WILL TYPE IN BLOCK MAYUS UNTIL WE GOT A FKING ANSWER TO ALL THIS FEEDBACKS, SAFETY WALL FORMULA PLEASE? THE HOME PAGE SAYS THAT IT BLOCKS 10 MELEE HITS AND THATS NOT TRUE, CAN ANY USLESS GM GIVE US THE INFO? A DECENT FORMULA?
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#73 Caelum

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:12 PM

GMS NEVER DO SOMETHING SO I WILL TYPE IN BLOCK MAYUS UNTIL WE GOT A FKING ANSWER TO ALL THIS FEEDBACKS, SAFETY WALL FORMULA PLEASE? THE HOME PAGE SAYS THAT IT BLOCKS 10 MELEE HITS AND THATS NOT TRUE, CAN ANY USLESS GM GIVE US THE INFO? A DECENT FORMULA?


This is an old formula that was being tested before renewal made it to iRO. It's not 100% accurate, but it gets pretty close to give a rough estimate. That is, of course, if they haven't completely scrapped this formula in favor of a localized version.

SW_HP = (7000 * (1 + 0.1(job_lvl / 50))) + (300 * skill_lvl) + (65 * total_int) + max_sp

No idea if this is still close, lack of time to test properly.
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#74 Mefistofeles

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:28 AM

This is an old formula that was being tested before renewal made it to iRO. It's not 100% accurate, but it gets pretty close to give a rough estimate. That is, of course, if they haven't completely scrapped this formula in favor of a localized version.

SW_HP = (7000 * (1 + 0.1(job_lvl / 50))) + (300 * skill_lvl) + (65 * total_int) + max_sp

No idea if this is still close, lack of time to test properly.


If the guillotine fist breake the safety wall, how much damage are you suposed to take? a guillotine fist hited me 49k then i put safety wall and still getting killed with same atack, i have 38k hp and 6k sp, whats the problem of safety wall? that info must be in the ragnarok home page, just check the info in page
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#75 Veniality

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:56 AM

If the guillotine fist breake the safety wall, how much damage are you suposed to take? a guillotine fist hited me 49k then i put safety wall and still getting killed with same atack, i have 38k hp and 6k sp, whats the problem of safety wall? that info must be in the ragnarok home page, just check the info in page

SW acts the same as Kyrie. It has a set amount of HP and a set amount of hits. SW will break when one of the two occurs and ALL overflow damage will go onto you, just like Kyrie. I.E. If for example your SW has 15k hp (use the formula given above for rough estimates on the hp of you SW) and gfist hits for 50k, you'll receive 35k damage from gfist. It's already changed on kRO to absorb leftover damage (thus saving you from one gfist), but there is no telling when iRO will get the update at the pace updates have been occurring.

Also it's been known for years that you don't rely on the skill info on the iRO website, they never update skill descriptions from the originals from what I've seen.
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