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#201 MrMajestic

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:18 PM

Because I should have to give up ALL of my non-3rd job skills, be unable to receive healing and increase agility from priests, require constant use of magic fuel, and have virtually no other damage options but this one

all so a mechanic can operate on par with a genetic


SIGN ME UP

Make arm cannon same as genetic cart cannon and everyone's happy :unsure:

that would have been true but you forgot to throw in the cart boost, and added weight to the cart limit. aND don't give us debuffs while where in our mado, that's are "super man suit" *eye rolls* debuffs meaning we can't be healed, and can't use our master smith skills.
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#202 MrMajestic

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:22 PM

I don't see why Mechanics should suffer such huge drawbacks to use a Madogear which is the basis of their third class when no other class has to. Its not like the Mado skills are remarkable in any way that justifies the penalties. I think keeping your Mado on death is perfectly reasonable when your entire skill build is based on being on your Madogear. There also seems to be no reason why a Mechanic shouldn't be able to use all his non-Mado skills inside his Madogear either. If you made a Rune Knight unable to use any of his Knight/Lord Knight skills if he was on a dragon, and only made Rune Knight skills usable on a dragon, and then made him lose his dragon on death, it would be just as ridiculous. Mado skills just aren't worth the restrictions placed on it. There is nothing "super hero form" about them. I don't think having you keep your Madogear on death and letting Mechanics use all their skills on a Mado would be unbalanced at all.

About Upgrade Weapon, assuming it does not give a bonus as a Mechanic(I have not seen tests done on iRO, if anybody knows if data has been gathered I would like to know please), saying that a skill point expansion is planned in the future and will fix it doesn't seem fair. We already had to hit j70 once as a Mastersmith to get full use of the skill, why should we have to do it again as a Mechanic? And saying that from a storyline perspective we aren't Blacksmiths anymore seems silly when Geneticists are going around with motorized carts with cannons in them. Making our Weapon Upgrade mostly useless now is wrong from a gameplay standpoint.

Also about Weaponry Research, I have tested the skill out and it does still work, but has been changed from preRE mechanics. Now it gives a +20% chance to hit on your chance to hit like Bash does.
So if you have an 80% chance to hit a monster, it would give you an 80% * 1.2 = 96% chance to hit. It does not give a flat +20 hit bonus.

Axe Mastery does give a flat +30 hit bonus and +50 atk bonus, but only for axes. On maces it seems to give a flat +20 hit bonus and I think a +40 atk bonus. I am not sure about the atk bonus, but it is not as high as with an axe. These bonuses do not show on the status window.


just bumping the sum it all up of this thread, couldn't say it better myself.
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#203 Iseal

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:36 PM

Well, on the bright side, even though we get debuffs, we can't BE debuffed by most skills!
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#204 MrMajestic

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 04:11 PM

Well, on the bright side, even though we get debuffs, we can't BE debuffed by most skills!



I'll put myself in a situation, if i was a character class to use debuf, and i saw a mechanic, and another character. why would i deal with the mech? you prioritize the threats first. mechanic is almost always the last case to deal with when it comes to a woe map. and we can still be debuffed if we go axe route. if we do pick axe, then we get the same problems as before, but unlike before we cant HSCR people to out dps there potting. if we pick mado, we become a second rate version of any skill you focus your build on, or any SKILLS* there's always that one other character class that just does what any of our skills do, but does it faster, or larger AoE, or just the other skills that are similar but have out right entirely better effects all together.

Edited by MrMajestic, 05 January 2011 - 04:15 PM.

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#205 Cylon

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 05:37 AM

Quick question, what stats affect arm canon damage?

Edited by Cylon, 06 January 2011 - 06:06 AM.

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#206 Brindizer

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:31 AM

Quick question, what stats affect arm canon damage?


It should just go off your straight attack stat. Its power increases by 5% every base level, though.
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#207 Taper

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 05:34 PM

A quick look at the Specific Renewal Feedback forums reveals that the top two 3rd class threads are of the same class tree: Geneticist and Mechanic (they both start out as merchant). And the argument between them are just as striking, about one being so overpowered and other so underpowered (or gimped).

PLEASE make Mechanic useful...

Actually, after that post about how mados don't have to worry about being debuffed... if Mechanics are allowed to use their own buffs, then most of the current limitations probably would be more tolerable, and may actually provide to be an incentive to go mado tree. Sick of being debuffed by dispel when trying to HSCR? Go Mado and be immune to dispel! I'd even accept the broken nature of mado and its loss upon death and inability to get outside heals/sp just for that alone! And MS buffs would at least offset some of the weak damage/power of the mado skills.
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#208 Iseal

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:03 PM

Ya know, that WOULD fix almost everything! Mechanic would turn into a self-sufficient WoE class, with the ability to chase down enemies, lock them in place, and HSCR them to death while immune to losing cart boost. Wouldn't it be too OP with the NB fix though? It'd be an entire minute of forcing people to get into melee range and try to out-DPS your HSCR. The only way to stop it would be to run away from the Mechanic, who likely will have the movement skills, or to kill the guy with melee attack/skills! Though, ya know, we kinda DO deserve a moment of OP-ness in WoE IMO...
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#209 MrMajestic

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:13 PM

Ya know, that WOULD fix almost everything! Mechanic would turn into a self-sufficient WoE class, with the ability to chase down enemies, lock them in place, and HSCR them to death while immune to losing cart boost. Wouldn't it be too OP with the NB fix though? It'd be an entire minute of forcing people to get into melee range and try to out-DPS your HSCR. The only way to stop it would be to run away from the Mechanic, who likely will have the movement skills, or to kill the guy with melee attack/skills! Though, ya know, we kinda DO deserve a moment of OP-ness in WoE IMO...

every one has there OP moments in WoE. except for mechanic. we do deserve something for playing the worst character. or i demand a refund on my time invested into this stupid class. or i would if that would do anything. oh well, no use crying over spilled milk. even though that milk was 3 years of my life, and all that kvm farming as well. all for nothing. i feel so awsome im gonna play neo pets from now on.
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#210 Frappuccino

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:21 PM

give mechanincs edp

solved.
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#211 Brindizer

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 03:43 AM

give mechanincs edp

solved.


I understand it's a troll post.

Point is, even if you gave them EDP, you still could not use it while in a Madogear. Besides, Maximum Over Thrust essentially is EDP now.
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#212 IronFist

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:45 PM

OMG so mechanics got axe mastery +30 hit +50 attack with 10skill points and royal guard get this!!

http://irowiki.org/wiki/Inspiration

really mechanic are usless, mastersmith were the single best dps in prerenwal, u wanted to drop a mvp fast get a smith, u want to kill a ghost mvp use a smith or maybe a sinx even baracades droped faster with a smith

now gloomy clashing does 100k per second ... we cant match that, self destruct does around 100k and requires an npc visit so we cant even do what monks used to do and gfist inn portal...

Player VS Monster ... why would u need a mech more then anyother class

WHAT JOB DOES A MECH EXCEL OVER EVERYOTHER CLASS








Royal Guards have a HPCR type attack but they have 7cell range more hp and better defensive skills

Honestly you've made us slow moving, unable to forge, broke our perfect hit streak, unable to use anything but axe/mace, make us visit a npc everytime we die and worst of all you made us supportive and ranged

no wonder the first mechanic stayed in Juperos Ruins

GIVE US SOMETHING!!

you know whats worse, the gm team isnt bothered by this, if anything it seems they dont even care that a whole class and its special items dont even work
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#213 IronFist

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:53 PM

out of EVERY-SINGLE class mechanic was always going to be the most bugged due to the fact it is the least played.

mastersmith was always a hard char to play but WOW when played right they can make a whole guild look like a bunch of newbies. i can just imagine the fear i provoked when i walked through a precast with my Margaretha Sorin

really iro need to step up and help kro with bugs and patchs and not just wait and follow kro example. Korea is a stressful place atm and has been for awhile with the north provoking the south and usa to show there true intentions. if korea and the usa work together maybe we can make a balanced environment in which players will flock too
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#214 Iseal

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 07:01 PM

Um, PvM Mechanic is still the best potential single target DPS in Renewal, unless there was a change since December.
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#215 Sera

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:43 AM

Yeah, but single target PVM DPS is irrelevant now.
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#216 Iseal

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 09:20 AM

For lvling yes, but what about MvP?
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#217 IronFist

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:39 PM

sure mastersmiths wanted a ranged attack, whats undesirable is that EVERY FKN 3rd class skills is Ranged... give us an OVERPOWER melee attack that does 50k like royal guards piercing atk!!

LOL single best DPS is CLASHINGSPIRAL !! 200k per second
Even Royal Guards Deal more DPS then mechanics HPCR with vanishing point

Edited by IronFist, 12 January 2011 - 05:41 PM.

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#218 Estancia

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 06:00 AM

I do have a level 150 mechanic and I do woe on it regularly, but mechanics are only capable of killing low level characters (people who stun) or people who just forgot to bring their pots. But you won't find a character that's so fun to woe with.

On other side, it saddens me cuz RG's basically have better offensive skills AND defensive skills than mechanics.
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#219 Iseal

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 09:59 AM

CS does NOT do 200k DPS, DPS is damage over TIME! CS has a cast time and delay, HSCR does not. CS does 100k at most, reasonably? With all reasonable buffs, meaning you would need a performer class with you, as well as a few others. HSCR can top that easy, you only need to have it do 20k a hit, which is pretty easy with elem advantage and good equips. Put striking on it, which the RK is probably going to need for the 100k a hit, you outdamage the RK easy unless he's in strings (which kinda defeats the point of solo MvP anyways, not to mention the stringer will probably die a ton). Assuming both jobs just go in there with self buffs, foods, etc, the Mechanic will outdamage the RK in DPS easily. I can do 20k rams already on my Mechanic, he's only lvl 110. Been able to since I was 105. This is on Ice Titans with endow, nothing else. I don't even have over 90 str! The RG might give competition, iunno about RGs overall. Don't most MvPs pneuma though?
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#220 Feral

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 04:32 PM

The trouble with balancing Mechanics as far as I see is more in the mechanical processes of the diverse builds involved. Mados are EXPENSIVE with little result for the resources consumed, while FAWs need a better AI and more reasonable cost. The other issue is that Mechanics who don't use Mados are dependent on Smith skills which do not change with the character, and HSCR doesn't see the change it needs to be in balance, so the only Mechanics run competitively are HSCR and MADO-slaves. At the very least, Hammerfall and Power Thrust should passively gain more power or something extra JUST FOR BEING A MECHANIC. While the new axe skills are neat, they only supply Swordie-style "lol damagemod" with no real perk other than that, which doesn't make sense for the job which is supposed to get the most function out of USING WEAPONS. I also think there are a few MADO skills which should be usable by non-MADO characters (such as Pile Bunker, Flame Launcher and Slides)
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#221 Cylon

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 11:15 AM

I do have a level 150 mechanic and I do woe on it regularly, but mechanics are only capable of killing low level characters (people who stun) or people who just forgot to bring their pots. But you won't find a character that's so fun to woe with.

On other side, it saddens me cuz RG's basically have better offensive skills AND defensive skills than mechanics.


Congrats on the 150. Got any tips on lvling? That is, did you lvl with axe tornado o madogear? Where did you lvl at 130+?
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#222 Estancia

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 06:13 PM

Congrats on the 150. Got any tips on lvling? That is, did you lvl with axe tornado o madogear? Where did you lvl at 130+?


It should be easier to level nowadays because of the dragon hat.
And yes, I did level with axe tornado in Abyss lake.
Although there was no triple spawn until I was level 143, I had to level in NL2 from 131 to 143.
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#223 IronFist

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 07:44 PM

even when i wear my mado suit i want to be able to skill spam players, i dont like any of these offensive ranged casting skills, so basicly im left with powerswing, problem is i have a much better skills in HPCR which deals double the damage and bypasses sheild skills....

i still dont understand why mechanics in mado cant use HPCR... this is the bread and butter of mastersmiths.

buff powerswing to be just as effective if not more >>

i only have 50 skills points in 3rd class, axe tornado is okay but while its on cooldown id like to spam hammerfalls and cart revos enchanted with shatterstrike >>

im not a robot, if i wanted to make a mado heavy class id make a blacksmith since no point of been mastersmith if u wear a mado >>

30k clashing spiral x3 for gloom and lex x2 easy 200k spiral and they have gloomy so he will have strings... we are no where close the highest dps since hpcr cant be lexed... like i stated earlier vandishing point the royal guard skill does the same if not more damage then HPCR and % cards work


this class as a whole has no JOB,

Edited by IronFist, 23 January 2011 - 08:02 PM.

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#224 MagicHands

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 04:34 AM

CS does NOT do 200k DPS, DPS is damage over TIME! CS has a cast time and delay, HSCR does not. CS does 100k at most, reasonably? With all reasonable buffs, meaning you would need a performer class with you, as well as a few others. HSCR can top that easy, you only need to have it do 20k a hit, which is pretty easy with elem advantage and good equips. Put striking on it, which the RK is probably going to need for the 100k a hit, you outdamage the RK easy unless he's in strings (which kinda defeats the point of solo MvP anyways, not to mention the stringer will probably die a ton). Assuming both jobs just go in there with self buffs, foods, etc, the Mechanic will outdamage the RK in DPS easily. I can do 20k rams already on my Mechanic, he's only lvl 110. Been able to since I was 105. This is on Ice Titans with endow, nothing else. I don't even have over 90 str! The RG might give competition, iunno about RGs overall. Don't most MvPs pneuma though?

You need too get out of this forum lol. Gloomied CS with strings? Nobody even bothers with an mvp sura anymore because you can not only dps everything with a gloomied CS but if you have a rideword hat and Tao....you practically can use no supplies against almost any mvp..awesome! And what does a Mech get...? 10k...10k....10k.....Oooo a lex 20k!....10k Honestly i dont see how you can even compete.
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#225 Iseal

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 02:41 PM

Two words: Aftercast Delay.

Edit: Ya know, I feel like expanding anyways. Mechanics can fire HSCR at ASPD rate, meaning 20k+ at ASPD rate. CS does... let's just throw in 90k from the earlier post. I really don't know much about CS, I'll admit it, but 2 seconds aftercast delay is a HUGE drop in DPS. Even assuming you ignore the 1 second cast time, that's a CS once every 2.5-3 seconds, depending on ASPD (estimate). Going with 2.5 seconds, that means your CS goes down to 36k a second. I highly doubt that a decent Mechanic can't pull two HSCRs or more in a second. I believe the general cutoff was agreed to be 3 HSCR a second or something? That's 60k a second! Now, using the previous post above you... 90k CS with just gloomy? 45k a second assuming NO cast or animation, and the Mechanic will steal your lexes cuz he's hitting faster. Please feel free to provide backup for your side.

Edited by Iseal, 24 January 2011 - 04:52 PM.

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