392 replies to this topic

[Leonis]

is it still for draconis testers?

Yes, we're still using the Draconis server data. I wanted to give them a chance to test without some of the bugs reported first before we try moving on to the Leonis server data.

[GilGrissom]

Healing is working as it should be, with the right numbers. Even the cure (25% increase) with another healing is working good.

 

And healing in green is working perfect. Now we can see how much we actualy heal per player. I only tested on my self and not on multiple players at once with party heal. Wondering how that looks like.

 

Also the visual of the absorb damage with mana shield is working fine.

 

 

 

 

Edited by GilGrissom, 14 February 2014 - 02:07 AM.

[Soda]

A Special Note!

Some changes were made to the combat mechanics in order to correct some of the new mechanics and issues reported. Please let us know if you experience anything that feels wrong or off.

 

Can you elaborate on what those changes are?

[Leonis]

Can you elaborate on what those changes are?

 

Not exactly, because it really just involved some reordering of code in order to make some of the new mechanics work exactly how we wanted. Consider the edits, more like minor tweaks if not bug fixes that are hardly of note, but made it possible for us to make the new mechanics work!
 

[Soda]

Oh, I thought there were some kind of changes on the damage or something. Anyways, I would like to make a suggestion about Mages. Is it possible If you can make mages do normal range attacks just like the normal attacks on wands? I mean even if the damage is just 10 per hit just to give steady range on mages. Sometimes i notice even if the range on skills is 25m distance, the mage would still be running abit closer like (lets say) 10m range on the enemy and then cast the skill. And no, even when using 1st click target 2 clicks attack its still doing the same thing (Since I already tested it a couple of times myself). I suggested 10 damage per normal hit cause i know people would be complaining that mages already have high damage on skills alone, and to not make them like battle clerics. Heck even with 1 damage per normal hit im all for it as long as i have my steady range. Others may find it weird that a staff would shoot out fire balls but even on some online games, mages can do long range normal attacks as well.

 

"and no im not even expecting that this would happen since ive already suggested couple of things in the past few years and none of them were even taken into consideration LOL"..

[jerremy]

It's an interesting idea, not sure if they'd do it though. Maybe if they work out some of the synchronization issues it would be easier to achieve a steady range, cause I know the feeling of casting ranged skills (not only on mages, on others as well), and my character runs to point blank or even BEHIND THE DAMN TARGET to cast a skill.. Not very nice if you're playing a squishy class like a mage or dual raider.

[Soda]

It's an interesting idea, not sure if they'd do it though. Maybe if they work out some of the synchronization issues it would be easier to achieve a steady range, cause I know the feeling of casting ranged skills (not only on mages, on others as well), and my character runs to point blank or even BEHIND THE DAMN TARGET to cast a skill.. Not very nice if you're playing a squishy class like a mage or dual raider.

 

EXACTLY MY POINT!!! Lets not even mention, skills getting stuck on animation which have been around for YEARS. And the advantage of doing long range normal attacks on mages is that, same on battle clerics, they can keep using ranged skills without running close to the enemy (which means more survivability for them) and the time that they would actually get close to the enemy is by using close ranged skills (staff stun, debuff). Like i stated on my previous post, you can do this with 1 click target 2nd click attack but it glitches when you run and you also you need to double click your enemy (which takes some time) in between battle just to get close to them.

 

edit: just as what i expected. Another suggestion of mine that is ignored. oh well, i should stop suggesting things next time which are quite impossible to happen. thanks for reading if you did anyway.

Edited by Soda, 14 February 2014 - 11:02 PM.

[Nifa]

Just some quick testing on cleric:

 

1. MP cost is too high. You are basically reduced to using only Cure, Heal, Restore, Heal (party), Restore (party) if you want to maintain an MP percentage that does not really drop (as in, you cycle through the heals, MP drops maybe 1 or 2 percent, but by the time you can heal again with using only those heals, your MP will have regen'd back those 1-2% or whatever). If you toss in a Recovery heal every now and then, your MP rapidly drains. Don't even think about using Recovery (party), Integrity, Integrity (party), Heavenly Grace. You can use them maybe once or twice if you are happy to be stuck at 1-10% MP which won't leave you with enough MP to res anyone. This is with 101 MP rec/sec, and I know most clerics have maybe 70-85 mp rec/s.

 

1a. Tried healing with two mana flames out, and I could maybe get in one extra cycle....can we get a stat on the mana (or salamander..) flame skill that says how much MP (or HP for salamander flame) it recovers?

 

2. Mana flames bug up heals/MP.

2a. Didn't have a problem with just one flame out, but with two MP flames out, each heal used some 1.xk amount of MP. I think this bug usually happens once you get to the point where you can't cast one of your heals? And then when your MP regens enough to cast heals, all of your heals start using tons of MP.

2b. When standing next to two MP flames, sometimes a heal won't cast. When it eventually casts, it basically uses up your entire MP bar. Sort of like when you attack things, see no damage, and then suddenly see some 20k amount of damage much later because all of the damages stacked together. However, I can't tell if the heals also stacked because by the time it finally healed, my HP was already full or almost full. I am not sure if you can cast other heals when a heal first gets stuck...I can't replicate it at will. It's usually the Heavenly Grace and Integrity (single/party) skills that got stuck.

 

3. Skill descriptions missing the new status things? I don't seem to have any of the descriptions for Healer's Touch (add one stack of heal power to cure or whatever), Restore (heal whatever amount over time), etc.

 

Like Ren said, the visuals for healing and mana shield absorption seem fine, although visual for mana shield would be a lot more useful if we had an HP bar for it since we aren't going to stare at the MP bar to see how much dmg our mana shield can take each time we use the skill...

 

That's all for now I think, will test more later and perhaps do some dungeons if I can get people to join.

[ShazamO]

Healing is working as it should be, with the right numbers. Even the cure (25% increase) with another healing is working good.

 

And healing in green is working perfect. Now we can see how much we actualy heal per player. I only tested on my self and not on multiple players at once with party heal. Wondering how that looks like.

 

Also the visual of the absorb damage with mana shield is working fine.

 

 

 

I am liking this.

[ToonyNL]

Apperently all the people that cry about the MP consumption haven't tested jet, if you know the game and all the possiblity's you don't have to worry about this MP consumption off heals. Instate off cry here like baby go test and find out that there's more possible then cry....

[jerremy]

I know what's possible. It's still almost ridiculous how high the costs are. And yes, you can get MP consumption and regen passives, but you already need defensive passives, heals, buffs, sleep, mute, purify, flames or else people will be complaining that you're not a proper support cleric. There's a limit.

[GilGrissom]

You can't have it all. It depends on your game play. Even than you can satisfy many players. The mana cost is high, but not ridiculous high. You can manage, even by having alot of different skills Test, try and you will see

[ToonyNL]

Well jerremy your reaction shows you haven't test, go test first, then come back and complain. With right build you can still do same, but you just don't look whats possible.

[SlowBob]

When it comes to MP consumption the gear makes a difference too. The best thing you can do is using a Legendary/epic weaphon.

[Nifa]

 

Typo: It should be 5% of Max MP. And it seems to be calculating it off of my own max MP instead of being 5% of the enemy's max MP?

 

Also, it is confusing to read

Max MP: 5%

MP: -[number]

 

because it looks like it will be taking away 5%+[number] MP from the enemy instead of [number] simply being the actual value of the 5%.

Edited by Nifa, 14 February 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[ToonyNL]

i think the -25% is the max MP you can consume off you enemy, so looking at your mana, it would be 1864, the number is the amount your mana break consumes off you enemy, so for example iff the number is 2000 it would still only take 1864 off a enemy with the same mp as you. This is how i think it is, correct me iff wrong. And its correct that its 25%, taking max 5% off some one's mana is like nothing.

Edited by ToonyNL, 14 February 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[Nifa]

Tested it on a cleric with 5658MP and it consumed 397.

 

 

On another note, and just for reference, tested getting every single MP passive possible (int and both charm MP rec passives, MP consumption passive, Max MP passive), and you can cycle through all of your heals while draining your MP slightly faster than what is current on the live servers.

[jerremy]

So, got a few more bug reports, regarding some of the new raider stack effects:

 

-While circle break does properly apply wounded, PvP circle break doesn't. Intentional?

-The shattering blows stacks only seem to apply on basic attacks, not on skills. While in the description, it doesn't specify this. Is it intentional to only be on basic attacks or is it a bug? If it's intentional, it would be nice to specify it in the description.

-At 20 stacks of wounded, you do actually still heal. Not a lot but you do. I think it's because of the healer's touch passive giving 30% healing that even when you have -100% healing received, because of that 30% your healing only goes down by 70%. At least, that's what I thought but a cleric that didn't skill the passive still managed to heal himself, although it was only for small amounts (100-200).

 

Just found that the rested status doesn't seem to fend off sleep pretty well either. Still as sleepy as always.

Edited by jerremy, 14 February 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Leonis]

Typo: It should be 5% of Max MP. And it seems to be calculating it off of my own max MP instead of being 5% of the enemy's max MP?

 

Also, it is confusing to read

Max MP: 5%

MP: -[number]

 

because it looks like it will be taking away 5%+[number] MP from the enemy instead of [number] simply being the actual value of the 5%.

Looks like we'll need to update some of the mechanics. The MaxMP being used offensively hasn't been done before so it may not be supported under the general mechanics. So we'll look in to that, thank you. (And thank you for catching the wrong %)

 

So, got a few more bug reports, regarding some of the new raider stack effects:

 

-While circle break does properly apply wounded, PvP circle break doesn't. Intentional?

No. I must have missed it while trying to juggle handling the other stuff this week. >_<

 

 

 

-The shattering blows stacks only seem to apply on basic attacks, not on skills. While in the description, it doesn't specify this. Is it intentional to only be on basic attacks or is it a bug? If it's intentional, it would be nice to specify it in the description.

At the moment, intentional, just to verify it was working correctly. All the proc points have not been fully implemented. Was taking it a step at a time to ensure functionality.

 

 

 

-At 20 stacks of wounded, you do actually still heal. Not a lot but you do. I think it's because of the healer's touch passive giving 30% healing that even when you have -100% healing received, because of that 30% your healing only goes down by 70%. At least, that's what I thought but a cleric that didn't skill the passive still managed to heal himself, although it was only for small amounts (100-200).

Correct, they directly compete with one another. It should be setup so the Healer's Touch will negate stacks of wounded when applied, but not vice versa. This makes it so that wounds will always appear, but the healing touch will 'cure' them when applied.

 

 

 

Just found that the rested status doesn't seem to fend off sleep pretty well either. Still as sleepy as always.

We will have to investigate the new status effect's mechanics to ensure it is working as intended (or if I made a mistake in the setup). This woudl be one of the new stat types that was implemented.

 

---

 

Thank you for testing and all the wonderful feedback!!

[jerremy]

At the moment, intentional, just to verify it was working correctly. All the proc points have not been fully implemented. Was taking it a step at a time to ensure functionality.

So it will later be improved to also proc on skills? Just want to be sure.

[Leonis]

So it will later be improved to also proc on skills? Just want to be sure.

Yes, intended to be based on damage inflicted at any point, not just melee. However the Katar tree is based on melee, not damage to proc, so it would not work with skills. Difference intended to tree and play style.

[jerremy]

Yes, intended to be based on damage inflicted at any point, not just melee. However the Katar tree is based on melee, not damage to proc, so it would not work with skills. Difference intended to tree and play style.

Alright, thanks for the clarification. Was a bit worried since the dual raider, while can be built melee, is quite a lot more skill heavy. In fact it's so skill based that my dual raider doesn't even use basic attacks. But now that I know it will proc on skills as well I'm assured~

[Leonis]

It's certainly a tree design that the dual raider is considered a more active role for the Raider, as well as a class that runs more on the penalizing of others in order to keep their advantages over enemies.

[Nifa]

Correct, they directly compete with one another. It should be setup so the Healer's Touch will negate stacks of wounded when applied, but not vice versa. This makes it so that wounds will always appear, but the healing touch will 'cure' them when applied.

 

We refer to the Healer's Touch passive that gives 10-30% more healing power. With 20 stacks of wounded (-100% healing ability), a cleric that did not have this passive and did not apply any of those new healing statuses was still able to heal 80-150.

[Leonis]

Sorry Nifa, you've a misunderstanding to how it works.

 

Healer's Touch, primary stat increases your base healing amount.

 

Base healing amount: 100

Healer's Touch: increases that base by 30%, you now heal for 130

 

Wounded & Healing Touch (effect) modifies how much you are healed by. This is a stat that modifies the amount of healing you are to receive.

 

130 healing, modified by 2 stacks of Wounded (-10% healing effect) would be: 130 * (1 - 0.1) = 117

130 healing, modified by 2 stack of Healing Touch (+10% healing effect) would be: 130 * (1 + 0.1) = 143

 

These modifiers modify the end outcome, not the base amount you see. At least that is how it is intended to work.

 

Now, 130 healing, when you have 2 stacks of Wounded and 2 stacks of Healing Touch, would be:130 * (1 + 0.1 - 0.1) = 130

 

It is possible to have both stacks active. Cure removes Wounded, Wounded does not remove the Healing Touch effect.

 

At worst, you will have max stacks of Wounded (-100% healing effect) and max stacks of Healing Touch (+25% healing effect) which means, a -75% reduction to healing effect overall. Each cast of cure, with max level Healer's Touch, would remove 5 stacks of Wounded (-25% healing effect) and the cast wait is nearly immediate from the animation finishing, which means you should be able to clear them quickly if one ever got them to be so high.

 

The idea for Raider's is that this effect helps them and others against targets who do not necessarily have direct support, or to give an added consideration for the support to negate and save their team from, so it isn't quite so one sided when it comes down to the idea of when someone has support vs someone who doesn't. It is a counter support mechanic and a step towards being able to offer more counters to aspects of game play that have none.

 

I hope this was clear to understand how it is intended to work and how it is expected to impact game play.