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#1 Njoror

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 03:52 PM

Hello, everyone.

 

We want to gather feedback on each class to better balancing.

 

This thread will be about the Warrior class. If you've played Warrior and have some constructive feedback to give to help improve the class, use this thread as that platform.

 

To make things easier to read, please use the following form:

 

Character:

Feedback Type(Example: Skill/Stats/Suggestion)

Skill (If Applicable):

Feedback:

 

We appreciate all feedback given, and will use it when discussing changes to the studio.

Also, if you think another category in the form is required, let me know and I'll change it up!


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#2 VidarWolf

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:26 PM

Character: VidarWolfheim

Feedback Type: Suggestion

Feedback:

 

Even as much as i love my warrior, i think it is obvious he is clearly way too good at alot of thigns.

 

  1.  He has more defense than a knight (who has a shield and that should not be the case) and also can have more defense than a monk (not sure on how BM stats are right now)
  2.  The highest base ATK from weapons(paired with Beast Masters)
  3.  A huge self heal that heals up to 90% of his health
  4.  High parry rate( knights can have more but is rather dificult for that to happen)
  5.  Highest dodge of the tanks ( is almost imposible for a monk to get more dodge because of how their gears give little to no agi)
  6. AoE Gap closing knockdown letting him protect parties from adds more effectively than almost any class
  7. 40% damage reduction buff, again knights only have a 20% damage reduction and they are supposed to be the main tanks

 

Feedback Type: Skills

Skill: Defender

Feedback: Defender should be changed because it is way too overloaded. My Suggestions are the next

 

-10%/-15% Physical Attack Power (this was never really noticeable to reduce their damage output)

4~20%/3~15%  Defense Increase ( Heavy armor got huge buff on AoV making 30% increase rather overpowered)

5~25% Parry Increase ( I like to think of Warriors actually using their huge swords to parry things)

No Dodge increase( There is really no reason to think of warriors as agile when they have such huge swords and heavy armor)

 

 

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill: Berserk

Feedback:Berserk is extremly lack luster right now because of how attack power multipliers work right now it could be remade into  a offensive defender style (cant be used at same time)

 

7~35% Physical Attack Power

2~10% Vigor

5~10% Critical Chance/ 4~20% Attack Speed increase(underated stat auto attacks do more damage than before)

20% Bonus Damage Recieved( damage the warrior recieves in case i wasn't clear)

 

 

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill: Tension Relax

Feedback: Are you serious? why would you ever give a tank a 90% Maximum health HEAL when he already haves huge deffensive statistic and huge power. it should be lowered to max of 60% at least like that isnt as overpowered ( for the time you take down 90% of a warrior hp he has the cooldown to use it again) again a reason why warriors are good at everything without any real flaws.

 

 

this is all i could think off as i really like warrior and even as i would like it to stay as it is, is not good for balance.


Edited by VidarWolf, 21 February 2014 - 08:36 PM.

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#3 VuoriDevine

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 08:48 PM

Spoiler


Edited by VuoriDevine, 22 February 2014 - 08:48 PM.

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#4 Chaostamer149

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:33 AM

Character: ChaosDragon(Warrior)

Feedback type: tank balance

Feedback:

 

First of all, I’ve been playing the swordsman class since beta. The Warrior has been my main character since this server opened and I have not once abandoned it for another class.

In my opinion, in order to see where a Warrior should stand, we need to compare all four tank classes and balance the stats most important to tanks between the four. The stats which define a tank are: HP, Defense, Parry, and Dodge. Attack is also important but it shouldn’t be what tanks are about. I made a table and gave each class a value for each stat to see where they should stand in relation to each other:

 

               BM       War     Knight   Monk

Hp            5           2           3          4

Def           3           4           5          3

Parry        3           5           4          2

Dodge      2           2           2          5

Attack      3            3           2          2

               16         16          16        16

 

It’s not perfect but what I’m trying to show is that each class should excel at one thing the others don’t: BM(HP), War(Parry), Knight(Def), Monk(Dodge). BM and War would have comparable as well as the highest attack of the tanks while Knight and Monk would have comparable attack and be the lower of the tanks. Knight would have the highest Defence and Warrior the second highest because these are heavy armor tanks.

Now to get down to what skills should be changed:

 

Feedback Type: skill

Skill: Defender

Feedback:

 

Due to the nature of diminishing returns, this skill isn’t as great as people make it out to be. In fact, Defender was much more “OP” pre-aov and is a mere shadow now of what it used to be.  Defender used to push Warriors from 55-65% parry rate to 70-80% (I realize the parry cap was 70% pre-aov but my effective parry rate pre-aov was 77.73% with full aod H gears not including the aod set bonus, even if the equip window didn’t show it). Defender also gave Warriors about 10% additional Def and dodge rate. Now, with full Osiris gears, 25-30%+ blueseeds on all armors and weapon, anteater/mayor titles, 5x solomian rare+, and 50 base str, my parry rate without Defender is 34.51%, with Defender it is 37.17%. Only a 2.66% difference when it added up to 15% pre-aov. As for Defense, now it pushes me from 68.02% to 73.44%, a 5.42% difference when it was twice that amount pre-aov.

Therefore, I suggest changing Defender from giving {-10% Attack, +30% Def/Parry/Dodge} too {-10% Attack, +30% Def, +60% parry, +0% Dodge}(remove dodge bonus)

 

Lv1 Attack -10%, Def +6%, Parry +12%

Lv2 Attack -10%, Def +12%, Parry +24%

Lv3 Attack -10%, Def +18%, Parry +36%

Lv4 Attack -10%, Def +24%, Parry +48%

Lv5 Attack -10%, Def +30%, Parry +60%

 

To put it in perspective using my stats as an example: instead of Defender giving a parry of 37.17% (+2.66%), it would give 45.74% (+11.23%). I will also add that again, due to diminishing returns, it would require an additional 3900 str to reach 55% parry rate using the +60% parry suggestion. Pretty much impossible with the current parry formula.

 

Dodge is removed from Defender because, honestly, like VidarWolf above mentioned: this is a heavy armor class carrying a giant sword… they shouldn’t be able to “dodge” things very easily.

 

As for why the Defence increase is left at 30%, well, it doesn’t give much and no matter how much Def we stack it still won’t give much in comparison to our non-Defender defense rate, due to… that’s right… diminishing returns. This is also assuming they actually give Knights the highest Defence of all tanks (which they should).

 

To be honest, Defense in general should be nerfed because reaching the 60-80% ranges (on tanks) is just ridiculous when we (tanks) were barely even able to reach the 50% range unbuffed pre-aov.

 

Feedback Type: skill

Skill: Tension Relax

Feedback:

 

This skill heals way too much, period. I suggest making it heal as much as it did pre-aov which was 60% but with a slight change:

 

Requires at least 50 rage.

 

Lv1   3% instant heal, 30% over 22 seconds, 80sec cd, Consumes all rage and heals depending on amount consumed.

Lv2   6% instant heal, 40% over 26 seconds, 100sec cd, Consumes all rage and heals depending on amount consumed.

Lv3 10% instant heal, 50% over 30 seconds, 120sec cd, Consumes all rage and heals depending on amount consumed.

 

It wouldn’t be fair to revert Tension Relax back to its original 60% and still having it cost the 6 skill points it does now.

Make it have a max level of 3 like suggested above and redistribute the extra 3 skill points to rage control because there is honestly no other skill where 3 points can be added, which brings me to my next suggestion:

 

Feedback Type: skill

Skill: Rage Control

Feedback:

 

Lv1 Generate 2-15rage, Max Rage: 60 (Original: Generate 5-17 rage, Max Rage: 50)

Lv2 Generate 4-17 rage, Max Rage: 70 (Original: Generate 5-20 rage, Max Rage: 100)

Lv3 Generate 6-20 rage, Max Rage: 80

Lv4 Generate 8-22 rage, Max Rage: 90

Lv5 Generate 10-25 rage, Max Rage: 100

 

Feedback Type: skill

Skill: Bowling Bash

Feedback:

 

Bowling bash is pretty useless above lv1 right now, all it does is give more dmg (190%-392%) and the same amount of rage generation (twice the rage generation as head crush/bash which the description describes as “obtain 2 aura”) at all levels. It’s a waste of skill points.

Have it give more rage above lv5 like battle leap does. For example: Battle leap currently at lv1-5 gives 10 rage per monster hit, at lv6-10 it gives 20 rage per monster hit. So for Bowling Bash:

 

Lv1 Obtain 2 “aura”,                        dmg: 190%, 10sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 190%, 10sec cd)

Lv2 Obtain 2 “aura”,                        dmg: 213%, 10sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 213%, 10sec cd)

Lv3 Obtain 2 “aura”,                        dmg: 235%, 10sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 235%, 10sec cd)

Lv4 Obtain 2 “aura”,                        dmg: 258%, 10sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 258%, 10sec cd)

Lv5 Obtain 2 “aura”,                        dmg: 280%, 10sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 280%, 10sec cd)

Lv6 Obtain 2 “aura”, Obtain 2 rage, dmg: 302%, 12sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 302%, 10sec cd)

Lv7 Obtain 2 “aura”, Obtain 4 rage, dmg: 325%, 12sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 325%, 10sec cd)

Lv8 Obtain 2 “aura”, Obtain 6 rage, dmg: 347%, 14sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 347%, 10sec cd)

Lv9 Obtain 2 “aura”, Obtain 8 rage, dmg: 370%, 14sec cd (Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 370%, 10sec cd)

Lv10 Obtain 2 “aura”, Obtain 10 rage, dmg: 392%, 15sec cd(Original: Obtain 2 “aura”, dmg: 392%, 10sec cd)

 

The rest of the Warrior skills are fine as they are and don’t need any “improvements”.

 

Now, to comment on two things VidarWolf mentioned:

  1. Aura Shield vs. Endure: people seem to forget that Endure has a 120 second delay while Aura Shield has a 60 second delay. In the long run these two skills mitigate the same amount of damage. In fact, due to the nature of some raid bosses (now obsolete), Aura Shield would be able to be used through more of the bosses big attacks than Endure. Boss fights used to last around 5-10min, in a 10min boss fight a Knight would be able to defend against 10 of the bosses’ big attacks while Warriors would only get to defend against 5 big attacks. During those 5 big attacks that a Warrior could not use Endure, they become a liability to the party and therefore put more strain on the healers especially during AoE attacks when the healers themselves may be in trouble. A dead tank is a useless tank. Knights, therefore by having a skill that is able to be used more often albeit at half the effectiveness become a more stable and reliable tank. Btw, Knights have 2 damage mitigating attacks and so do Warriors:

 

         Knight: Shield Fortress, -50% dmg, 120 second delay    Aura Shield, -20% dmg, 60 second delay

        Warrior: Endure, -40% dmg, 120 second delay                Parry, +40% chance to parry an attack, 60 second delay

  1. Berserk:

It’s fine as is, 20% attack is more than enough even with the horrible attack formula and -10% flat dodge is huge as it is.

Giving this skill a flat crit increase especially with how hard it is to obtain crit% would make this skill op especially giving it vigor. Due to Osiris gears having vigor, my warrior has a 36sec cd on berserk, adding more vigor, especially a % increase would make this skill have under 30sec cd effectively making it a permanent buff.

 


Edited by Chaostamer149, 23 February 2014 - 04:44 AM.

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#5 Kenichi

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 08:47 AM

Character : Kenichi

 

Skill : Provoke, Mass Provoke
Feedback : 2%~10% / 5%~15% / 5%~25% DEF reduction.

Skill : Berserk
Feedback : 3~15% Crit Bonus.

 

Stats : Parry

Feedback :  50%+ increase in Parry.

 

 

Skill: Rage Strike (Bug?)
Feedback: While hitting mobs, 100 rage is used instead of 50 rage.

 

 

Stats:: VIT increase Potion Regen.

Feedback : 1k VIT barely gives 10% increase in Hp Potions. Increase heal by ~100% (According to the in-game description 1k should give 200% [0.2% per VIT] more healing from Potions)


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#6 Chaostamer149

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:25 AM

Stats:: VIT increase Potion Regen.

Feedback : 1k VIT barely gives 10% increase in Hp Potions. Increase heal by ~100% (According to the in-game description 1k should give 200% [0.2% per VIT] more healing from Potions)

 

It's working for me:

ScreenCapture_2014_02_23_11_07_40_zps38c

 

Prime Grade Dayr Potion (2700)

Vit: 1460

 

1+(1460*.002)=3.92*2700=10584

 

Don't know where the extra 4 hp healed comes from >.<


Edited by Chaostamer149, 23 February 2014 - 10:26 AM.

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#7 Chocs

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:51 PM

The Defence issue is more of a whole game balance than just for Warriors so I'll not say anything about that.

 

Character: Choco

Feedback TypeSkill

Skill (If Applicable): Berserk

Feedback: While other tanks have targeted gap closers that offer stun/knockdown, Warriors have no real counter against moving ranged targets. As awesome a skill Battle Leap is it's practically useless in those situations. Giving up to 30% or so Movement Speed increase to Berserk could alleviate this pain.

 

Or we can:

Spoiler

-----

Feedback TypeSkill

Skill (If Applicable): Battle Leap

Feedback: This skill has a tendency to reset monsters when the Warrior is top threat. I'm guessing the moment a Warrior jumps they are considered to be "out of range"... this really gets on my nerves.


Edited by Chocs, 23 February 2014 - 12:54 PM.

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#8 BlueTrainer

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:54 PM

Character: Is4runes
Feedback Type: Improvised
Skill (If Applicable):Endure
Feedback: I would like to suggest skill endure how it effect on defensive, regarding post above most want nerf war as it's already good as now, i would like suggest Endure has ability to Nullify status effect such as Frozen, Stun, that can stop Warrior movement for period of times base on percentage around 60% or 70%,

why? because annoying part when we fight with long range class, we stuck cant move,cant pot cant do stuff waiting to die,(especially Priest Stun skill stun and dot repeatedly till died) even depend on tension relax(that they want reduce) still need rage meter to trigger.



Improvised: i'm also would like to suggest to re check back whole class defensive equipment given, not just warrior class (even i think need to reduce a bit defense stat on war equipment set)
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#9 jdmtouch

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:06 AM

Character: Hero

Feedback Type(Example: Skill/Stats/Suggestion) Stats and Skills

Skill (If Applicable): 

Feedback: Pre AoV warriors were pretty much the RNG type of tank with high dodge/parry rate. Bring that back and lower their defense. I feel that knights should be the complete opposite almost where they are the ones that should have higher defense because they use a shield. I also think that Endure/Parrying needs to be reworked into something else as the state of the current game now makes it obselete and not really worth putting points into just like bowling bash.


Edited by jdmtouch, 25 February 2014 - 07:57 AM.

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#10 xLuc

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:43 PM

 

Character: Hero

Feedback Type(Example: Skill/Stats/Suggestion) Stats and Skills

Skill (If Applicable): 

Feedback: Post AoV warriors were pretty much the RNG type of tank with high dodge/parry rate. Bring that back and lower their defense. I feel that knights should be the complete opposite almost where they are the ones that should have higher defense because they use a shield. I also think that Endure/Parrying needs to be reworked into something else as the state of the current game now makes it obselete and not really worth putting points into just like bowling bash.

 

 

I think you meant "Pre" AoV?


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#11 jhay1825

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:11 PM

Character: JoonHo

Feedback Type: Stats and Skills

Feedback: 

 

Just to let you guys know the defense issue isnt just really on warrior but all classes have OP defense, thats why adding the Defender skill made it look like warriors are too Over Powered. We used to be inferior in def with knights thats why we needed the Defender to get at least as close as we can to their def. 

Now our DPS is really OP i wont deny that, but isnt every other classes damage OP too isnt it. Warriors Pre-AoV were probably the one class that can hit 11-15k crits on duels resulting in 1 shotting other classes. So if people say to nerf us then i would definitely say nerf all classes then.

Now we are the only class that has no range attack skill or useful gap closer which makes us really inferior in PvP, people say we 1 shot stuff, yes we do, but if you kite,trap or freeze can we still do that? Nope, if were trapped we are basically screwed big time and only thing e can do is wait for our inevitable death. 

 

Skill: Battle Leap

Why not make our Battle leap usable while moving, i mean if your leaping to someone would you just stand there while you prepare to jump? Of course not, its logical to actually move and would make more sense if you are running and chasing someone and you can aim on to leaping on them. 

 

 

I feel are our skills are ok, its just that we need something at least to be par with other classes. A decent gap closer, not some easily avoidable attack. 


Edited by jhay1825, 24 February 2014 - 07:15 PM.

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#12 xShiroyashax

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:38 PM

Character: JoonHo

Feedback Type: Stats and Skills

Feedback: 

 

Just to let you guys know the defense issue isnt just really on warrior but all classes have OP defense, thats why adding the Defender skill made it look like warriors are too Over Powered. We used to be inferior in def with knights thats why we needed the Defender to get at least as close as we can to their def. 

Now our DPS is really OP i wont deny that, but isnt every other classes damage OP too isnt it. Warriors Pre-AoV were probably the one class that can hit 11-15k crits on duels resulting in 1 shotting other classes. So if people say to nerf us then i would definitely say nerf all classes then.

Now we are the only class that has no range attack skill or useful gap closer which makes us really inferior in PvP, people say we 1 shot stuff, yes we do, but if you kite,trap or freeze can we still do that? Nope, if were trapped we are basically screwed big time and only thing e can do is wait for our inevitable death. 

 

Skill: Battle Leap

Why not make our Battle leap usable while moving, i mean if your leaping to someone would you just stand there while you prepare to jump? Of course not, its logical to actually move and would make more sense if you are running and chasing someone and you can aim on to leaping on them. 

 

 

I feel are our skills are ok, its just that we need something at least to be par with other classes. A decent gap closer, not some easily avoidable attack. 

Character:  xShiroyashax

Feedback Type: Stats and skills

Feedback: yeah i can agree to u completely, also i noticed someone saying our Tension relax gives too much HP, well then assassin have to have his heal skill nerfed as they heal double the amount of hp in the time when we only do once as we have high CD on ours, also with DMG only full DPS warrior have good DMG, as i often see ML 11+ warriors who cant hit hard at all, so it depends on gear, skills, runes, if warriors will be nerfed just coz ppl dont know how to play then

There are a lot of warriors who have def of around 40% and they are ML11+

 

Skill: Battle Leap (also) xD 

dont know if im the only one but when i use BL my char stays in the air frozen for about 1-2 sec before landing, like he jumps and at the very last moment gets stuck, seems like a glitch to me

 

 

Also if someone havent checked this post here yet, suggest to read it through, good info on current 'tank' clases

 

http://forums.warppo...rs-osiris-gear/


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#13 Chocs

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:47 PM

Feedback Type: Skills

Skill: Defender

Feedback: Defender should be changed because it is way too overloaded. My Suggestions are the next

 

-10%/-15% Physical Attack Power (this was never really noticeable to reduce their damage output)

4~20%/3~15%  Defense Increase ( Heavy armor got huge buff on AoV making 30% increase rather overpowered)

5~25% Parry Increase ( I like to think of Warriors actually using their huge swords to parry things)

No Dodge increase( There is really no reason to think of warriors as agile when they have such huge swords and heavy armor)

 

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill: Tension Relax

Feedback: Are you serious? why would you ever give a tank a 90% Maximum health HEAL when he already haves huge deffensive statistic and huge power. it should be lowered to max of 60% at least like that isnt as overpowered ( for the time you take down 90% of a warrior hp he has the cooldown to use it again) again a reason why warriors are good at everything without any real flaws.

 

 

this is all i could think off as i really like warrior and even as i would like it to stay as it is, is not good for balance.

 

The actual problem you have with Defender and Tension Relax seems to be due to the super pumped DEF values that ML Swordsman gear have. If tank gear DEF becomes balanced with respect to each other and Warriors end up having the second lowest DEF again (BM<Warrior<Knight<Monk), these two skills will balance themselves.


Edited by Chocs, 25 February 2014 - 07:50 PM.

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#14 Izayoisan

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 06:51 AM

Character: JoonHo

Feedback Type: Stats and Skills

Feedback: 

 

Just to let you guys know the defense issue isnt just really on warrior but all classes have OP defense, thats why adding the Defender skill made it look like warriors are too Over Powered. We used to be inferior in def with knights thats why we needed the Defender to get at least as close as we can to their def. 

Now our DPS is really OP i wont deny that, but isnt every other classes damage OP too isnt it. Warriors Pre-AoV were probably the one class that can hit 11-15k crits on duels resulting in 1 shotting other classes. So if people say to nerf us then i would definitely say nerf all classes then.

Now we are the only class that has no range attack skill or useful gap closer which makes us really inferior in PvP, people say we 1 shot stuff, yes we do, but if you kite,trap or freeze can we still do that? Nope, if were trapped we are basically screwed big time and only thing e can do is wait for our inevitable death. 

 

Skill: Battle Leap

Why not make our Battle leap usable while moving, i mean if your leaping to someone would you just stand there while you prepare to jump? Of course not, its logical to actually move and would make more sense if you are running and chasing someone and you can aim on to leaping on them. 

 

 

I feel are our skills are ok, its just that we need something at least to be par with other classes. A decent gap closer, not some easily avoidable attack. 

 

yeah,warrior skilled is normal,just need to improved or par with other class..there is no issued with warrior def,dodge and parry,just telling no offence


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#15 PandeeChio

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:10 AM

yeah,warrior skilled is normal,just need to improved or par with other class..there is no issued with warrior def,dodge and parry,just telling no offence

 

There is a huge issue with too high defense over all on every gears that came with morroc patch ( Which were totally too much overbuffed)

 

Chocs:

 

 

"The actual problem you have with Defender and Tension Relax seems to be due to the super pumped DEF values that ML Swordsman gear have. If tank gear DEF becomes balanced with respect to each other and Warriors end up having the second lowest DEF again (BM<Warrior<Knight<Monk), these two skills will balance themselves."

 

I agree. Balancing the defense on every characters to not make each tank class go hit the max defense and the defense difference would be like BM<Warrior<Knight<Monk, would be nicer 


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#16 Shinyusuke

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 03:04 AM

I'm not a warrior i'm a knight but since our base is the same i tought you had our same problem whit the low hit rate due to the low agi can you balance it whit any skill or what? Looking at your colo gears you have exactly our anount of agi 0_o No idea hom much agi you get whit ml gears but until lv 50 you have exactly the same problem as us but i didn't see anyone of you mentioning it here.

Edited by Shinyusuke, 15 March 2014 - 03:05 AM.

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#17 jhay1825

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:06 AM

I'm not a warrior i'm a knight but since our base is the same i tought you had our same problem whit the low hit rate due to the low agi can you balance it whit any skill or what? Looking at your colo gears you have exactly our anount of agi 0_o No idea hom much agi you get whit ml gears but until lv 50 you have exactly the same problem as us but i didn't see anyone of you mentioning it here.


The hit rate is more of every classes problem. So yeah, like my warrior has 1400 agi with 3.7k hit and i still miss horribly. :o
Its already been mentioned by a lot of people in different threads so theres no really need to emphasize it more coz its everybodys problem. ;_;
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#18 Chocs

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:33 PM

Our ML Greatswords give a truckload of AGI... Sword & Shield gives considerably less  :p_err:

 

It's true that hit rate is everyone's problem though, and the devs are actually aware of it. No point glossing about it each and every time.


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