66 replies to this topic

[rzevidz007]

Shadows explosion is already fixed.

 

Fixed that for ya.

[Strobe]

Fixed that for ya.

 

Thanks. Haven't touched my sin post AOV. To answer Raela's question, she said it herself. You can't compare a LV 5 SE with menace to a LV10 MD with joser. I will do some tests and get more info on sin/rogue when server is back up. Comparing rogues to ranger and wiz would be tricky since both of them are long range dps

 

 

 

EDIT: I like how the thread is labeled "HOT" now. Easier to notice by the GMs/CMs/Devs. Keep on flaming/agruing with me and post feedbacks!

Edited by Strobe, 26 February 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[Verdeth]

First of all my english isn't that polished so please bear with it

Character: Verdeth

Feedback Type: Suggestion + Skill revamp

Skills:

 

Thief: REMOVE Cross Impact, reason ? 1 useless "assasin" skill.

 

Rogue:

Cresent Moon 3(6) lvl passiv reduce the cooldown of Dark Illusion by 1/1/1(2/2/2) seconds, also useable while normal and transformed, after using DI increase movementspeed by 5/10/15% for 2 seconds, normal crit chance while not hiding (also switch position with smoke bomb)

Rolling Cutter Your attacks damageing foes within 5y of your target, damage to foes 35/40/45(50/55/60)% of damage dealt to your target last 5/5/5(10/10/10) s, cooldown 10 s There is no way this is going live, but just imagine

Unstable Doping remove the current adrenalin rush, provideing a flat 15% atk bonus

Gangster Paradise skill animation is a bit tricky, should grant a passive bonus to self of 2/4/6/8/10% atk while near an other rogue/assain Hey its a gangster paradise, so...

Mark of Death: aditional passive bonus of +100% to Genocide Mark

Dirty Plan passive bonus, critical strikes have a chance of 7/14/21/28/35 % to aplly bleeding effeckt, dealing 350% over 10 s, durotation is stackable Sick of playing fair and square?

Feedback: Peronally i like really my rogue, but there are just a few things bothering me, we 've got the lowest atk of all phy DPS, no crit dmg bonus or just a slightly higher crit chane than like a warrior. Our small advantage lies within Gangster Paradise but thats it... currently we neither have a gapcloser or movement speed, just one single stun in my opinion its far to less. Also i am fine with a coin toss while playing, like combat mastery, doping etc. But rogue overall its just... meeh.. it just dosent feel right

 

Edited by Verdeth, 26 February 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Leinzan]

Uhm, Strobe, I see you have some missconceptions on the UD and MD mechanics D:

 

Please wait a bit until I reach those skills >___>!!!

 

The explanation wont be short tho... Im sorry .___.

BTW, I'm Raela's companion... and yea, she might not be fully prepared to compete against a full focused fire DPS Rogue threat wise (let alone DPS wise), but since I use «Smoke Bomb» as much as possible my threat resets a lot, and all heal skills (pots, GT, GP) affects it as well... so Threat metter is not a way to gauge our DPS...

 

If you wish to and know of someone with a full Joser Assassin with at least SS and SE maxed out, we can test out which char has a higher threat making capabilities... altho thats... silly...

 

Anyway, allow me to update my post with the next skills >___>!!

[Strobe]

Uhm, Strobe, I see you have some missconceptions on the UD and MD mechanics D:

Please wait a bit until I reach those skills >___>!!!

The explanation wont be short tho... Im sorry .___.
BTW, I'm Raela's companion... and yea, she might not be fully prepared to compete against a full focused fire DPS Rogue threat wise (let alone DPS wise), but since I use «Smoke Bomb» as much as possible my threat resets a lot, and all heal skills (pots, GT, GP) affects it as well... so Threat metter is not a way to gauge our DPS...

If you wish to and know of someone with a full Joser Assassin with at least SS and SE maxed out, we can test out which char has a higher threat making capabilities... altho thats... silly...

Anyway, allow me to update my post with the next skills >___>!!

I'll also update all the rogue skills that needs tweaking but I'm still stuck in testing phase. Can't do anything constant since the server isn't quite stable atm.. Even if my calculations were messed up, Rogues are still behind in terms of damage output, self buff, and our skills don't compliment each other since most of it are pvp oriented. IE: cresent moon is not/rarely used in pve.

[Leinzan]

I have the feeling that «Crescent Moon» extra effect was the devs way to avoid giving us a gap closer...

Like, once down, the target will never escape.

 

Undoubtly that skill is all about PvP :/

[Toki]

Buff:

• Mark of Genocide
• Cross Impact
• Poisoning Weapon

This applies to Sin aswell as its in Thief tree

 

Other than that Rogues are fine in terms of dmg output

Pre or Post AOV still one of the top dps/threat

 

- iiwazii

[Leinzan]

Woot, Im half way there!! x-x

[Quinntto]

First of all my english isn't that polished so please bear with it

Character: Verdeth

Feedback Type: Suggestion + Skill revamp

Skills:

 

Thief: REMOVE Cross Impact, reason ? 1 useless "assasin" skill.

 

Rogue:

Cresent Moon 3(6) lvl passiv reduce the cooldown of Dark Illusion by 1/1/1(2/2/2) seconds, also useable while normal and transformed, after using DI increase movementspeed by 5/10/15% for 2 seconds, normal crit chance while not hiding (also switch position with smoke bomb)

Rolling Cutter Your attacks damageing foes within 5y of your target, damage to foes 35/40/45(50/55/60)% of damage dealt to your target last 5/5/5(10/10/10) s, cooldown 10 s There is no way this is going live, but just imagine

Unstable Doping remove the current adrenalin rush, provideing a flat 15% atk bonus

Gangster Paradise skill animation is a bit tricky, should grant a passive bonus to self of 2/4/6/8/10% atk while near an other rogue/assain Hey its a gangster paradise, so...

Mark of Death: aditional passive bonus of +100% to Genocide Mark

Dirty Plan passive bonus, critical strikes have a chance of 7/14/21/28/35 % to aplly bleeding effeckt, dealing 350% over 10 s, durotation is stackable Sick of playing fair and square?

Feedback: Peronally i like really my rogue, but there are just a few things bothering me, we 've got the lowest atk of all phy DPS, no crit dmg bonus or just a slightly higher crit chane than like a warrior. Our small advantage lies within Gangster Paradise but thats it... currently we neither have a gapcloser or movement speed, just one single stun in my opinion its far to less. Also i am fine with a coin toss while playing, like combat mastery, doping etc. But rogue overall its just... meeh.. it just dosent feel right

 

I completely disagree with your idea of Unstable Doping. At Mlvl 20, the end game, the real pvp, the WOE time, Rogue can get 30% MORE DMG just from 1 PRIME GRADE DAYR POT. Just one.

 

I completely disagree with basically everything you said. This isn't class balancing that you want, this is class unbalancing. Rolling cutter is weak and it is intended to be weak cause rogue is good for single target. We're lucky enough to get rolling cutter.

 

Character: Strobes

 

Feedback Type: Skill/Suggestion

 

Skill (If Applicable):Unstable Doping and Adrenaline Rush/ Dual Stab Detect Weakness pointless or probably not working

 

Feedback: I've been playing with the rogue class for mostly all my RO2 game time and I have to say that Rogue buff is way too low compared to other classes. Most class buff have 30 minute duration compared to our "pure luck" proc skill that requires us to hit mobs and hope that it might give us 20% critical or 20% attack power. Comparing it to another DPS class like Assassins which have a 30% critical/30% Attack with a 30 minute duration. Not to mention their move speed buff and hiding speed buff or the Ranger's wind walk, Rogues are the only DPS class without chasing capability. Adrenaline Rush buff is totally ignored now since it requires using potions to get the most out of it and as we all know, there have been issues with healing pots and to be honest, I've been playing for almost 2 months now without the aid of potions since we have Gangster's Paradise and the only time I use potions is when I go PVP. There have been no complaints from rogues since I'm guessing that there are only a handful of us and that we only take what we can get. We played for a whole month without the aid of self healing back in December when Gangster P wasn't working and we didn't actually complain since the pots were bugged then. Point is that our self buff is not even on par with other class buff. I'm not sure about our class bonus too. We are not tanks and we don't have dodge buff unlike monks which actually compliments their class bonus. I think it's time that the rogue class gets some attention now. AND I miss the awesome animation of the old moonlight dance. But I'd rather stick with the crappy one since it doesn't give so much downtime.

 

Why would you want rogue to be the same or par with sins or rangers? We don't need to chase people if we can do 10 seconds stun.

 

Also remember, when you don't like that 20% ATK POWER buff, click it twice, it will go away. Once it is gone, you have a chance to get 20% crit rate. Do you even know how meaningful is a 20% crit rate?! @_@ @_@ @_@

 

20% additional, brings my crit rate to 70%++ full buff, and pump it hard.

[Quinntto]

Character: Quinntto (MLVL 20, Osiris, +20 weapon, average of 25% Blue and Flame Runes = End-Game)

Feedback Type: Uniqueness and Combo

Feedback:
 

I really like the idea of Rogue being a dancer and an artist, rather than just a POWERFUL MONSTER TRUCK like Warrior or Sins. Therefore, I propose that Moonlight Dance to have the same damage, but gain ADDITIONAL damage when target is debuffed (I don't know specifically, like bleed, or poisoned from our poisoned weapon skill.)

 

Don't do anything with the Unstable Doping. I like the way it is. 20% crit chance really makes us stand out from the rest of the crowd. And REMEMBER rogues out there: 20% additional CRITICAL chance is OP!

 

Here is my most radical suggestion that I believe will improve the excitement of playing Rogues. Increase the % on Combo Mastery lvl 3 from only 9% to around 20-30%. Nine percent is like, 1 out of 10 chances that my combo will stay. With 20-30%, we would have more options to choose (GP or Crescent or Dance).

 

One last suggestion, can you make Dirty Plan's animation faster? It takes forever just to raise my hand while in that mean time I will be killed already.

 

Overall, Rogue is already good enough, a bit twitch here and there would make the class more fun to play and actually keep up to the SUPER FAST NINJA PVP pace currently in WOE, and more combo options. (Oh! I got 5 Combo Points, should I stun + Dirty Plan + stun again = 10 seconds stun????? Should I try to 1 hit my enemy with Moonlight Dance???? Should I use Gangster Paradise + Smoke Bomb + Dark Illusion????)

 

One more thing, Rogues don't need anymore damage, come on guys we have 40% MOD + 1420% Moonlight Dance + 20% chance to DOUBLE IT! Imagine that!

 

[Leinzan]

Also remember, when you don't like that 20% ATK POWER buff, click it twice, it will go away. Once it is gone, you have a chance to get 20% crit rate. Do you even know how meaningful is a 20% crit rate?! @_@ @_@ @_@

 

20% additional, brings my crit rate to 70%++ full buff, and pump it hard.

I have to agree with most of what you say.

 

However UD still does need a little fixing, don't get me wrong, I know the 20% crit chance is awesome, the problem is the other one...

 

Oh btw, when one of the 2 effects procs there is a debuff that impedes the other one from happening for the same duration, so don't you dare double clicking on it to lose it cuz you'll end up with nothing for 30 seconds x-X;;;

 

UD procs are like "have this or suck it up!", its  part of the fun.

 

One more thing, Rogues don't need anymore damage, come on guys we have 40% MOD + 1420% Moonlight Dance + 20% chance to DOUBLE IT! Imagine that!

I dont imagine it, I do it.

 

Thanks to those insane skill combinations and with the help of the Guild Skills and a companion I've done a 161k «Moonlight Dance» with a Joser set...

Edited by Leinzan, 27 February 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[Strobe]

Why would you want rogue to be the same or par with sins or rangers? We don't need to chase people if we can do 10 seconds stun.

 

Also remember, when you don't like that 20% ATK POWER buff, click it twice, it will go away. Once it is gone, you have a chance to get 20% crit rate. Do you even know how meaningful is a 20% crit rate?! @_@ @_@ @_@

 

20% additional, brings my crit rate to 70%++ full buff, and pump it hard.

 

Because it's perfectly clear that we are behind DPS in terms of versatility and skills. A sin can teleport twice with DI and SA and stuns WITHOUT the need of getting 5 combo points and hiding. On top of that, they have 2 other skills that increases their movespeed. When did I ever say that Rogues need more damage? I can deal 148k in one burst damage to Osiris with my MD and I'm not even complaining about it. I know how to cancel buffs and I'm talking about how UD procs. I solo QoD everytime she spawns and it takes me less than 2 minutes to kill her. Sometimes she dies without even the help of UD since it didn't proc during the whole battle. Having 20% crit doesn't guarantee you anything. it actually lowers damage if it does hit than the 20% attack when it crits with it. Go do some colo, duels, or woe. See how you fare with other classes. I'd rather get a constant 10% or something on both and dealing constant damage than stacking 5 combo points and hope it hits while praying it crits. Oh and you'll have trouble kicking them since you can't even outrun them

[Quinntto]

Because it's perfectly clear that we are behind DPS in terms of versatility and skills. A sin can teleport twice with DI and SA and stuns WITHOUT the need of getting 5 combo points and hiding. On top of that, they have 2 other skills that increases their movespeed. When did I ever say that Rogues need more damage? I can deal 148k in one burst damage to Osiris with my MD and I'm not even complaining about it. I know how to cancel buffs and I'm talking about how UD procs. I solo QoD everytime she spawns and it takes me less than 2 minutes to kill her. Sometimes she dies without even the help of UD since it didn't proc during the whole battle. Having 20% crit doesn't guarantee you anything. it actually lowers damage if it does hit than the 20% attack when it crits with it. Go do some colo, duels, or woe. See how you fare with other classes. I'd rather get a constant 10% or something on both and dealing constant damage than stacking 5 combo points and hope it hits while praying it crits. Oh and you'll have trouble kicking them since you can't even outrun them

 

Your comment just makes me wonder why did you even pick rogue when you can do some research about their skills. Also, if it is really really necessary to kill that 1 target that is running away, press V + wind pots faster than your target.

 

IDK too why you said Rogue lack skills and versatility. Getting to the 5 Combo Points is a challenge, but with those 5 Rogues have the choice to Heal / Stun / Dance + Smoke Bomb /  DPSing + GP and the cycle continuesa

- 5s + 5s stun?

- 60% + 60% heal

- 2 times Moonlight Dance

- or combination of the above.

 

Versatility = capable of or adapted for turning easily from one to another of various tasks, fields of endeavor, etc.

Really High Dodge ratio (1:3) for Semi-tank / Self-Heal /  Max Burst /  Ridiculously long stun for allies to finish off / 3 times Dark Illusion / Losing Aggro in PVE and many more

 

Rogue already has good versatility and skills. Just would be better (highly recommended but not absolutely do-or-die) if Rogues can have additional damage/debuff/stun/idk on targets that are already debuff (bleed/stun/silenced) so it can add a bit more twist and beautiful combination moves.

[Strobe]

Your comment just makes me wonder why did you even pick rogue when you can do some research about their skills. Also, if it is really really necessary to kill that 1 target that is running away, press V + wind pots faster than your target.

IDK too why you said Rogue lack skills and versatility. Getting to the 5 Combo Points is a challenge, but with those 5 Rogues have the choice to Heal / Stun / Dance + Smoke Bomb / DPSing + GP and the cycle continuesa
- 5s + 5s stun?
- 60% + 60% heal
- 2 times Moonlight Dance
- or combination of the above.

Versatility = capable of or adapted for turning easily from one to another of various tasks, fields of endeavor, etc.
Really High Dodge ratio (1:3) for Semi-tank / Self-Heal / Max Burst / Ridiculously long stun for allies to finish off / 3 times Dark Illusion / Losing Aggro in PVE and many more

Rogue already has good versatility and skills. Just would be better (highly recommended but not absolutely do-or-die) if Rogues can have additional damage/debuff/stun/idk on targets that are already debuff (bleed/stun/silenced) so it can add a bit more twist and beautiful combination moves.

1.You can't use guardians in colo if I remember correctly
2.Wind Pot? Seriously? Why'd you have to settle for another Z consuming item when we already have 1 useless skill that needs pots to proc.
3.As I said before, which part of our equipment has dodge? This is why red seed is only useful for hit and vitality. Compare it to sins/rangers they get 3 Hit from Agi + hit from gears which makes dodge for rogues useless.
4.10sec stun to finish what? Stuns don't work on bosses and why would you bother stunning a normal mob that you can kill in seconds? This skill is pvp oriented and only good when you have 5combos/mastery proc
5.Dirty Plan isn't class exclusive. Others have similar skills too. Sins don't need this coz their skills isn't so combo oriented. With Dirty Plan on CD how do you plan to do all those things you said?

I've been playing as a rogue for a long time and I can tell how it sunk when you compare pre/post AOV.
Rogues being versatile only applies in pvp and even then, other dps classes are far ahead. Where is the versatility on a 3 button mashing combo? I suggest you do some tests than just looking at skill trees and bashing feed backs. It helps

[Quinntto]

1.You can't use guardians in colo if I remember correctly
2.Wind Pot? Seriously? Why'd you have to settle for another Z consuming item when we already have 1 useless skill that needs pots to proc.
3.As I said before, which part of our equipment has dodge? This is why red seed is only useful for hit and vitality. Compare it to sins/rangers they get 3 Hit from Agi + hit from gears which makes dodge for rogues useless.
4.10sec stun to finish what? Stuns don't work on bosses and why would you bother stunning a normal mob that you can kill in seconds? This skill is pvp oriented and only good when you have 5combos/mastery proc
5.Dirty Plan isn't class exclusive. Others have similar skills too. Sins don't need this coz their skills isn't so combo oriented. With Dirty Plan on CD how do you plan to do all those things you said?

I've been playing as a rogue for a long time and I can tell how it sunk when you compare pre/post AOV.
Rogues being versatile only applies in pvp and even then, other dps classes are far ahead. Where is the versatility on a 3 button mashing combo? I suggest you do some tests than just looking at skill trees and bashing feed backs. It helps

 

1. Awww, well I was thinking we were talking about WOE map.

2. Wind Pot 10 minutes is free from WOE daily quest.

3. Well can't expect rogue to win from every class. Sins and rangers are hard for rogue to fight

4. Again, 10 seconds stun in WOE map is a very long time. Not talking about PVE as raids are no longer needed, Osi bosses are solo-able with pets. I don't think there is a point "fixing" rogue to improve its raiding ability.

5. Dirty plan CD's is around 96-100 seconds at lvl 3 with the stats we get from Osi + Flame runes. And again, I don't think rogues are designed to have the same playing style with sins. Rogues depend on combo more than sins, but that does not mean rogue should be "fixed" so that we don't depend on combo points.

 

Aww I'm sorry if I sounded like I was bashing your feedback. I love how rogues work compared to sins, rangers, sorcs, warriors, etc, and I would hate to see rogues being reworked just to match up sins.

[rzevidz007]

Holy crap strobe.

I've seen your posts and kept on wondering.

What makes you think Rogue's DPS is much more behind than sins? Shouldn't it be the other way around? And why would you want the Rogue to be reworked? It is so so so so much fine the way it is.

 

DPS? They're still one of the best, especially after MD got changed which fasten their animation by what.. 90%? MD hits for 2000%+ damage easy with the use of MoD and 30% damage bonus from Dual Stab (if and only if one decided to increase its level to 10).

Burst? They are capable on doing it, excellently with the help of Smoke Bomb (although it will cause threat reset. Not a huge problem though )

PVP?, They are fine, rather, an excellent class to pick with the brand new fracture effect. Movement speed is not an issue anymore since you'll be slowing people.

Party buff? Level 10 MoD will skyrocket your party's DPS.

Equipment? Dual daggers are finally on par with claw in terms of attack power and still faster attack speed (although with lesser stats) but with FASTER attack speed.

Heal? Gangster Paradise.

AoE? Rolling cutter > sin's Shadow Fang. Damage is almost similar but bleeding effect overpowers sin's AoE. Animation has similar speed as well.

Self buff? Unstable Doping is on par with Sin's Shadow Form with their own unique advantages (movement speed or extra attack/crit!). But Rogue is still an excellent pick for those who wants extra attack power to maximize its DPS. 30% bonus attack power from pot is easy with Dayr's pots (although a bit costy, but well worth it for maximum result).

CD Reset? Rogue has it, sin does not.

 

And you said Rogue are bashing 3 buttons. Sin also do the same crap really.

Double Attack, Shadow Strike, Shadow Explosion.

 

Deadly Blow is garbage because when you got your CP to 5, your ultimate is already available again to use.

 

 

 

 

[aznphoen1x]

Maybe it works for you but not for everyone. If it procs it gives 20% Attack power or 20% Critical for 20 seconds, while other class buff like assassin's have 30% attack AND 7% crit + movespeed buff for 30 minutes. Rangers have more min/max weapon damage and 10% agility increase for 30 min. Warriors have battle tactics/order and an insane min/max dmg + their class bonus. And finally the wizards get a boost after today's patch. If you can't accept changes and stick to being happy with doing 3 attacks for most of your rogue time then we'll probably be too far behind other dps classes. Even monks which were supposed to be tanks are better in pvp now. That being said, I still think our only class buff is way behind, stupid and it needs a major change

 

 

EDIT: 7% crit rate with SC and mark for 30 min for sins

 

What's so wrong about the skill having a random element to it? You knew it would be like this before you picked rogue. I don't mind if unstable doping gets changed to where it has a bonus that's always active, like a crit chance increase, but I'd like to see it keeping something random. Maybe, make the adrenaline rush effect a game of chance rather than a drinking pots game. A change I personally could accept is unstable doping giving us a raw damage increase that doesn't need to proc and then have the crit chance and the adrenaline rush things as the random gamble elements or something like that. It's just too satisfying to see unstable doping proc and then overpower your enemy!

 

And about the 3 attacks part, what's so bad about it? Would you rather have bazillion attack skills? My skill bar is full enough as it is aleady ahaha. I say keep the skill rotation like it is, edit some useless skills to make them more useful and just increase the base damage of us rogues so that it's on par with other DPS classes. If you like to see our damage output increased by editing unstable doping, I can live with that, as long as unstable doping doesn't become a generic "always works" buff. How boring aha. Us rogues are unpredictable like that and for me it just adds to the whole experience ^^

[aznphoen1x]

Character: Quinntto (MLVL 20, Osiris, +20 weapon, average of 25% Blue and Flame Runes = End-Game)

Feedback Type: Uniqueness and Combo

Feedback:
 

I really like the idea of Rogue being a dancer and an artist, rather than just a POWERFUL MONSTER TRUCK like Warrior or Sins. Therefore, I propose that Moonlight Dance to have the same damage, but gain ADDITIONAL damage when target is debuffed (I don't know specifically, like bleed, or poisoned from our poisoned weapon skill.)

 

Don't do anything with the Unstable Doping. I like the way it is. 20% crit chance really makes us stand out from the rest of the crowd. And REMEMBER rogues out there: 20% additional CRITICAL chance is OP!

 

Here is my most radical suggestion that I believe will improve the excitement of playing Rogues. Increase the % on Combo Mastery lvl 3 from only 9% to around 20-30%. Nine percent is like, 1 out of 10 chances that my combo will stay. With 20-30%, we would have more options to choose (GP or Crescent or Dance).

 

One last suggestion, can you make Dirty Plan's animation faster? It takes forever just to raise my hand while in that mean time I will be killed already.

 

Overall, Rogue is already good enough, a bit twitch here and there would make the class more fun to play and actually keep up to the SUPER FAST NINJA PVP pace currently in WOE, and more combo options. (Oh! I got 5 Combo Points, should I stun + Dirty Plan + stun again = 10 seconds stun????? Should I try to 1 hit my enemy with Moonlight Dance???? Should I use Gangster Paradise + Smoke Bomb + Dark Illusion????)

 

One more thing, Rogues don't need anymore damage, come on guys we have 40% MOD + 1420% Moonlight Dance + 20% chance to DOUBLE IT! Imagine that!

 

This person gets what rogues truly are! You never know what's gonna happen when you play rogue. Should I stun? Should I heal? Go for the 1 hit KO? It's all a game of chance being a rogue and so satisfying when everything goes according to plan mwuhehe. And then when your unstable doping procs and you get the crit chance increase, 20% extra crit! I can't stop grinning from ear to ear every time it happens. So much fun!!! Only thing I disagree on is damage, because compared to other dps like ranger and warrior, our wep damage is less. So just a tiny increase would be ok ^^
Just my opinion =)

 

One more thing, we ARE powerful monsters trucks...we simply make it look more elegant <3
 

[Chocs]

This is what the thread is for right? feedbacks. 

 

I let my ego get the better of me, that I admit. In the end all of us want better out of the class we play with.

 

The only thing that didn't sit well with me was the method of comparison and misinformation. It's like some Knights complaining that Warriors get a 40% damage reduction while they're stuck with 20%... but forget about the cooldown difference.

 

Rogues certainly have places to improve, but not much with respect to Shadow Form and Shadow Claw. That is my honest opinion. However I am reserving judgement on the overall DPS output knowing that the stat system will still be tweaked in due time.

 

Regarding DPS comparisons to other classes; what we need is a separate thread, not Roguard. 

 

By the way, "this and that" was me separating my gripe with Assassins and the UD issue, not specifically about you and the points you were making. For the record, I hate that Assassins now have a self-sustaining skill, and self-sustaining used to be one of the Rogue perks over choosing Assassin. Assassins already had their turtle skill for self defence and default high mobility.

[1106130505020430887]

Another thing that bothers me a lot is the fact that most of our powerful attacks require combo points but only double attack generates them (and dual stab if you are that desperate) so for most of the fight you are just a thief spamming double attack hoping not to be forced to burn smokebomb while getting kited/bursted because you are slow and squishy. At least sins get a RANGED attack that generates combo points (don't even want to talk about the heal). Maybe give dual stab a slight increase to its range and let it give you a slight speedboost when it connects instead of the current detect weakness. Also bonus Hit instead of Dodge for Agility would serve a DPS class a lot better, you are designed to deal damage not to tank. Well currently with the state of the game I guess everyone can solo tank almost every raid anyway as long as you have Willow Worker on max CDR.

[Strobe]

Guys let me make it clear that I'm not complaining about the damage output of rogues as it is now. And for one, we are actually one of those lucky classes that weren't affected much by bugs. I am merely stating the fact that when you compare our class to other dps, we are far behind (not implying on damage only). I will try and break down some points and maybe it'll spark something. You peoplez are so negative. I like.

 

1.Class bonus : We get 3 dodge with every agi. They get 3 hit every agi + additional hit from gears (Earrings, Necklace and Weapons) What does a dps class need? dodge or hit?

 

2.Disable : CM requires 5 combo points to get the most out of it. They need only to press a hotkey to stun and deal much more damage than our CM. Rangers can trap where they stand so when you use DI, you also give yourself a free stun

 

3.Healing : Gangster P heals gradually, requires combo points, and has like 20ish cooldown. Grimtooth heals instantly, is spammable, and stacks when you hit more than 1 (bugged atm and probably not gonna be fixed soon)

 

4.Survivability: We have smokebomb which is completely useless when you have DoT on you since it cancels it out. Assassins have turtle mode 50% def and 5 sec invulnerability. Rangers can use Impact Arrow then Acrobatic, ankle snare and windwalk the F out

 

5.Chasing capability: Rogues have what? smokebomb DI attack for awhile til we get 5CP or til mastery procs then kick. Sins/Rangers, I don't even have to mention it.

 

6.Class Buff (MY FAVORITE) I admit that 20% crit is kinda OP but what is it for when you can't even hit and UD doesn't proc? Ranger's AC gives 10% agi. If they have 2k then they get an extra 200 agi (an extra 600hit 400dodge 400crit) Sins have constant SC and SF with most skill damage above 375% compared to our DA 250%, CM at LV 10 251%, and Dual Stab at LV 10 294% (Sins have DA & Deadly Blow too).

 

7.AOE: I don't care much about this but wth. We have rolling cutter with bleeding that stacks ONLY if it crits. Sins have Shadow Claw and Grimtooth (that heals too). We can't compare Rangers with us coz it's more of Rogue/Sin and Ranger/Wiz/Sorc and other AOE classes.

 

 

Only thing that's on par with other class is our Moonlight Dance and that is to say again, if it hits/crits and the only unique skill for us is that single target 40% more damage MoD which other classes benefit from it too. Writing all that down might open your eyes and see where our class needs improvement.

 

And last thing, Yes our buff is unique and I too would not want to change that "gambling" effect it has, but keeping it and knowing where the state of the game is doesn't make sense. It could still work if they improve the chances of procing it and I think they can improve on our low damage dealing skills by increasing the chances of our combo mastery.

 

This is how I see where our class is and I still stand on what I said that rogues are behind other DPS classes.

 

 

EDIT: More feedbacks please. I love bumping heads with you guys. Gives me more ideas to improve stuff. + This thread is getting hotter and ahead of other classes. They might actually notice our little numbers

Edited by Strobe, 28 February 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Leinzan]

I just see that now I have to add my opinion of Rogue VS Assassin to my feedback post :/

[aznphoen1x]

And last thing, Yes our buff is unique and I too would not want to change that "gambling" effect it has, but keeping it and knowing where the state of the game is doesn't make sense. It could still work if they improve the chances of procing it and I think they can improve on our low damage dealing skills by increasing the chances of our combo mastery.

 

This is how I see where our class is and I still stand on what I said that rogues are behind other DPS classes.

 

 

Yes, I do agree unstable doping needs to be tweaked a little. The 20% crit is fine, but the 20% str increase only seems to bring up our damage to where it should have been already. Just feels that way to me. So maybe they can do what you said, higher chance of procing. Or maybe they could add some bonus to it that is always active, maybe like a flat damage bonus and then just have the crit chance be the only bonus that needs proccing (or maybe vice versa idk, though always having a 20% crit might be too OP) They could also make the adrenalin rush part of the gambling system instead of making you drink pots.

 

About the combo points, I do feel like it takes quite some time to collect 5 points. So I'd like rogues to have more options to gain combo points, because right now it's either double attack or dual stab.  And double attack only gives 1 point, so it would be nice to be able to gain combo points a little faster. Doesn't need to be insanely fast either, but just a little faster than how it is now.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

[Deyaboo]

Character: Dyablo

Feedback Type: Skill/Suggestion

 

In general Rogue are quite nice, i just like them to get as their description use pots for enhance abilities, we in fact use just just a heal potin, if we can use more pots for another kind of buff/debuff.

If posible add the skill many Ro1 Rogues loves the most "Striping" yeah, many ppl woud change to rogues if we have back strip weap/armor.

 

Skill :Dual Stab

 

Almost nobody lv this Skill because is quite hard to get the "buff" (i have it at 7, 21% chance) and use it since you have a 30% chance if the skill is maxed but last 5 secs and only helps MD y DB,  what makes use MD just after hoping u got the buff, for this would be better:

1. Detect witness raise to 50%, spending 10 points just to have a 30% chance each 8+-  secs and hoping MD isnt in cd because if u use DB we will spend our combo points and we have no chance to raise enough point the 3.5 left to MD, is hard just use Dirty plan to MD once.

2. If u get DW u crit the target by 100%.

 

Skill :Combo Mastery

 

 

 

Here is my most radical suggestion that I believe will improve the excitement of playing Rogues. Increase the % on Combo Mastery lvl 3 from only 9% to around 20-30%. Nine percent is like, 1 out of 10 chances that my combo will stay. With 20-30%, we would have more options to choose (GP or Crescent or Dance).

 

One last suggestion, can you make Dirty Plan's animation faster? It takes forever just to raise my hand while in that mean time I will be killed already.

Complety agreed +1

If i have to add something could be if u hit while CM u can add a deb to the target.

 

 

Skill :Ganster paradise

As its name say should be better while more "gansters", so if two rogues in same party we should have a bonus +3% heal and if mor than 2 rogues 18% or the 3% and ataks have a chance to add a deb.

 

 

Skill :Unestable Dopping

if i have to change something it would be the 20% atak to 30%, if we get atk buff we just take it out and wait for crit buff so no point in get a 20%, we realay most in agi so 30% atk would be a nice improvement, and add a third option giving 20-30% for add special conditions to the target such as curse, poison, bleeding blind. silence etc or even a forth posibility, the chance of strip weap/armor.

 

 

4. Again, 10 seconds stun in WOE map is a very long time. Not talking about PVE as raids are no longer needed, Osi bosses are solo-able with pets. I don't think there is a point "fixing" rogue to improve its raiding ability.

 

We dont have 10 secs at the end we have like 7 because u need about 2-3 secs to DP and CM again, ofc they cant heal for 10 secs but after those 5 they can run and we have to chase them for CM XD, so we should CM and hit while Knockdown until get enought points for MD but again with this HIT/Dodge rate is hard to gather the 5 points needed (not using doble pump it up, agi elixir and so)for MD, so we can use DP and MD but if target dont die, we should chase them again XD and gather points for CM, so we rly need the upgrade of combo mastey, we depend so much in combo points. 

You say PVE and Raids are no longer needed i agree for the moment but what i we get what community want the most fix that so we can raid again, then we are going to complain again because our skill doesnt work against bosses, so i think is better to think fot the future, hoping the game will have a good future lol.

Edited by Deyaboo, 01 March 2014 - 08:23 PM.

[AhinaReyoh]

4.Survivability: We have smokebomb which is completely useless when you have DoT on you since it cancels it out. Assassins have turtle mode 50% def and 5 sec invulnerability. Rangers can use Impact Arrow then Acrobatic, ankle snare and windwalk the F out

 

Didn't AoV make it so Rogues get a temporary invincibility after using Smoke Bomb? Though the DoT will probably outlast the invulnerability, it gives you a chance to move to a more distant target, and doubles as a way to dodge powerful boss attacks. (If such attacks existed.)