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#51 Strobe

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:56 AM

Didn't AoV make it so Rogues get a temporary invincibility after using Smoke Bomb? Though the DoT will probably outlast the invulnerability, it gives you a chance to move to a more distant target, and doubles as a way to dodge powerful boss attacks. (If such attacks existed.)

 

The temporary invincibility does NOT work or ends prematurely when 2 DoTs tick. Just tried it


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#52 Chocs

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:05 AM

Base invincibility duration is 3 seconds, and two DoT ticks is 4 seconds (excluding pet's DoT). Naturally it would wear out by the second tick if your SB is below 5/6.

 

Time to tweak my feedback on Gangster's Paradise...


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#53 Strobe

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:30 AM

Base invincibility duration is 3 seconds, and two DoT ticks is 4 seconds (excluding pet's DoT). Naturally it would wear out by the second tick if your SB is below 5/6.

 

Time to tweak my feedback on Gangster's Paradise...

 

I tried it with a ranger using poison arrow and wedge. It canceled out invicibility buff when both DoT ticked while still having invicibility buff at 2 seconds. Besides, the point is survivability. How would it be "survivability" when you can still take full DoT damages like the ones cres and priests use? Not even a single reduction


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#54 Quinntto

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:46 AM

Guys let me make it clear that I'm not complaining about the damage output of rogues as it is now. And for one, we are actually one of those lucky classes that weren't affected much by bugs. I am merely stating the fact that when you compare our class to other dps, we are far behind (not implying on damage only). I will try and break down some points and maybe it'll spark something. You peoplez are so negative. I like.

 

1.Class bonus : We get 3 dodge with every agi. They get 3 hit every agi + additional hit from gears (Earrings, Necklace and Weapons) What does a dps class need? dodge or hit?

 

2.Disable : CM requires 5 combo points to get the most out of it. They need only to press a hotkey to stun and deal much more damage than our CM. Rangers can trap where they stand so when you use DI, you also give yourself a free stun

 

3.Healing : Gangster P heals gradually, requires combo points, and has like 20ish cooldown. Grimtooth heals instantly, is spammable, and stacks when you hit more than 1 (bugged atm and probably not gonna be fixed soon)

 

4.Survivability: We have smokebomb which is completely useless when you have DoT on you since it cancels it out. Assassins have turtle mode 50% def and 5 sec invulnerability. Rangers can use Impact Arrow then Acrobatic, ankle snare and windwalk the F out

 

5.Chasing capability: Rogues have what? smokebomb DI attack for awhile til we get 5CP or til mastery procs then kick. Sins/Rangers, I don't even have to mention it.

 

6.Class Buff (MY FAVORITE) I admit that 20% crit is kinda OP but what is it for when you can't even hit and UD doesn't proc? Ranger's AC gives 10% agi. If they have 2k then they get an extra 200 agi (an extra 600hit 400dodge 400crit) Sins have constant SC and SF with most skill damage above 375% compared to our DA 250%, CM at LV 10 251%, and Dual Stab at LV 10 294% (Sins have DA & Deadly Blow too).

 

7.AOE: I don't care much about this but wth. We have rolling cutter with bleeding that stacks ONLY if it crits. Sins have Shadow Claw and Grimtooth (that heals too). We can't compare Rangers with us coz it's more of Rogue/Sin and Ranger/Wiz/Sorc and other AOE classes.

 

 

Only thing that's on par with other class is our Moonlight Dance and that is to say again, if it hits/crits and the only unique skill for us is that single target 40% more damage MoD which other classes benefit from it too. Writing all that down might open your eyes and see where our class needs improvement.

 

And last thing, Yes our buff is unique and I too would not want to change that "gambling" effect it has, but keeping it and knowing where the state of the game is doesn't make sense. It could still work if they improve the chances of procing it and I think they can improve on our low damage dealing skills by increasing the chances of our combo mastery.

 

This is how I see where our class is and I still stand on what I said that rogues are behind other DPS classes.

 

 

EDIT: More feedbacks please. I love bumping heads with you guys. Gives me more ideas to improve stuff. + This thread is getting hotter and ahead of other classes. They might actually notice our little numbers

 

Hmmmmm............ back to my point up there, I don't know why you chose to play rogue when it is clear to see that you want the skills that sins have.

 

You said you don't want more damage? Look at your argument in no. 6, where you bother to put numbers just to prove a point. Also, I am not sure why you can't hit people. I am just fine with hitting anybody and will be even finer when dodge/hit formula is fixed.

 

Oh wel

 

Again, my suggestions are:

1. Group buff/debuff combination moves. For example: when Sorcs freeze a target, that target deals is stunned 2s longer by our CM. This will make rogues (all classes actually) would want to create beautiful group combo moves.

2. Higher the level of Combo Mastery that gives 30% chance of not using any Combo Points.

3. Fasten the animation of Dirty Plan. Come on, you can slash your opponents 4 times in the same duration of lifting up your hands.....

4. (NEW) Decrease EVERY CLASS' dodge rate to 1/3 or even less when they are stunned. How the &^$%&^%& can people dodge attacks when they are stunned?! (credit to xBoOster)


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#55 Chocs

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:23 AM

I tried it with a ranger using poison arrow and wedge. It canceled out invicibility buff when both DoT ticked while still having invicibility buff at 2 seconds. Besides, the point is survivability. How would it be "survivability" when you can still take full DoT damages like the ones cres and priests use? Not even a single reduction

 

I think the point of that invulnerability buff was so Smoke Bomb would not be cancelled by last second projectile casts that have travel distance (Fire Bolt, etc). Doesn't seem like the devs considered the effect of DoTs while in hiding, or they just thought we should deal with it.


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#56 Strobe

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:33 AM

Hmmmmm............ back to my point up there, I don't know why you chose to play rogue when it is clear to see that you want the skills that sins have.

 

You said you don't want more damage? Look at your argument in no. 6, where you bother to put numbers just to prove a point. Also, I am not sure why you can't hit people. I am just fine with hitting anybody and will be even finer when dodge/hit formula is fixed.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble Quin but I have both sin and rogue at ml 13 and 20 respectively. Why do you keep implying that I play another class instead? Why can't you see the point that I'm trying to say? I have tested these things firsthand before I even posted all these. If you think that DP animation and combat mastery is the only problem with rogues then it means you're not looking hard enough. But anyway, this is a feedback thread afterall. To each his own

 

And FYI, my rogue has +20 osiris with 38%blueseed and all my armors are +15 with 31-33% blueseed average and I STILL have problems hitting.


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#57 Deyaboo

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:03 PM

Hmmmmm............ back to my point up there, I don't know why you chose to play rogue when it is clear to see that you want the skills that sins have.

 

You said you don't want more damage? Look at your argument in no. 6, where you bother to put numbers just to prove a point. Also, I am not sure why you can't hit people. I am just fine with hitting anybody and will be even finer when dodge/hit formula is fixed.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble Quin but I have both sin and rogue at ml 13 and 20 respectively. Why do you keep implying that I play another class instead? Why can't you see the point that I'm trying to say? I have tested these things firsthand before I even posted all these. If you think that DP animation and combat mastery is the only problem with rogues then it means you're not looking hard enough. But anyway, this is a feedback thread afterall. To each his own

 

And FYI, my rogue has +20 osiris with 38%blueseed and all my armors are +15 with 31-33% blueseed average and I STILL have problems hitting.

Well Strobe is just a matter of pots i think, Quintto can u tell us what are the pots you using ^^.


Edited by Deyaboo, 02 March 2014 - 12:04 PM.

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#58 Chocs

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:22 PM

TBH, if Rogues clearly are/become highest tier DPS, a little challenge in surviving is a decent trade off :hmm:


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#59 Quinntto

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

Yes Strobes I believe you have tested out both classes.

 

The thing that makes me wonder up until now is that your comparison is suggesting ROGUES to have equal damage output using skills that are similar to sins.

 

You also want rogues to be able to chase people, like Rangers and Sins.

 

You want better survivability like Sins' turtle mode

 

You want AOE that heals just like Sin's

 

And you want hit-Agi rate of 3:1 just like Sin.

 

I don't know how to make your suggestions clear enough for everyone that Rogues are not Sins, and numbers like damage outputs do not make us a "better" class, it just makes us OP. Numbers don't matter as much as the style of play of Rogues.

 

Having those numbers being equal between Rogues and Sins, making our survival skills better, gives us a chasing skill, gives us healing AOE skills would make Rogues WAY TOO OP. No fun in playing OP classes for me, IDK about you.

 

 

Well Strobe is just a matter of pots i think, Quintto can u tell us what are the pots you using ^^.

Phantom Pyramid gives out free Elixir Boxes. Most that understand can get 15-30 a day with just spending some time flying around in Alberta.

 

 

TBH, if Rogues clearly are/become highest tier DPS, a little challenge in surviving is a decent trade off :hmm:

 

I absolutely agree if that is the case, because there is no fun in playing OP classes

 


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#60 Strobe

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:09 PM

I wonder why you keep putting words in my mouth when what I put up there were merely comparisons between Rogues and Sins.
I have never suggested anything to change the skills other than those 3 (Doping, Combo mastery, Class bonus). The others are written there so whoever fixes our class would have an idea on where to work in and where we lack as a dps class. Balancing doesn't mean we get buffed to the point that we surpass another class, it could mean nerfing sin skills or raise ours up to achieve some sort of balance. Did I ever say give us turtle mode? Give us windwalk? Change our skills like other class have? I haven't even gotten to that point yet. There is a difference between giving FEEDBACK and SUGGESTION
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#61 SHACOPLS

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:47 PM

For the love of Lord Helix why would anyone want the old Moonlight Dance animation? It was way too slow to the point where it was unusable. I just want a way to not be kited to death so easily maybe by adding a short ranged lunge to dual stab (maybe 10m range). Also remove Cross Impact from the skill tree entirely and make Dirty Plan have no prerequisite skills as we do not have enough skill points to put into useless skills.


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#62 Chocs

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:49 AM

MD doesn't have to take forever like the old animation. Just something gloriously flashy  :p_idea:

 

I was thinking like this except sped up 3x: http://youtu.be/TIHqpe6FGTA?t=49s


Edited by Chocs, 04 March 2014 - 12:49 AM.

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#63 Strobe

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:29 AM

I'm pretty sure AOV got rid of those cool animations that gave so much downtime when casting skills. The only thing I'm happy about rogues is the battle stance. Movement looks cheesy
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#64 chronojxf007

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:37 PM

Hmmm rogues got nice skills already, but since rogues got low defence from intense attacks, i think it lacks buff to increase its movement speed (w/o the use of speed elixirs/guardian's movement speed buff/ymir child buff/greenseed wind buff/vip movement increase buff) for more offensive and "evasive" actions since it is a thief and dodger type; since other classes got their respective skills w/ high damage dealt per one hit. Its quiet a pain also that rogues hardly depends on unstable doping/detect weakness buff from dual stab - just to boost up dps mode; dodger-type of buff can help like "unstable increase" in movement speed also  :hmm:  :p_idea:


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#65 Strobe

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:58 AM

Hello fellow rogues, I will be writing stuff on each of the rogue thread that are posted in the forums and gather information so I can discuss with Njoror earlier.

I might be away for the next 2 weeks and I'm planning to submit the report on our class as soon as possible.

I will be putting my own feedback and suggestions there. Feel free to bump heads with me for the pros and cons. This isn't my own feedback afterall.

Expecting some help from you guys! See you all in game


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#66 zepplin21

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:06 AM

After AOV, im really confused build my rogue now.

 

can anyone give a picture of your builds ?

 

it will really mean a lot to me :D , you can pm to me

 

thanks.

 

 


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#67 Strobe

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:09 PM

Hi zepplin! I would gladly help you with your build whether PVE/PVP though I won't post my own coz I know I don't have the perfect build and I want everybody to be unique on their own. It would be boring if everyone has the same build.
Anyway feel free to PM me or anyone here on this thread. I'm sure they'll help too! I hope
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