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#26 KaintheOmega

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:07 AM

We're not an AoE class though. We Main Tank, which means we're handling the biggest, baddest guy we can (taking all the hits) while the Warrior (for example as Off Tank) handles the add control. Like previously corrected, our DPS can be great if built right anyway. DPS isn't our main concern though because like you said, we're Tanks. Steel Body makes our Threat 300% of our damage. We don't want to compare to other DPS classes. They should always be doing more damage, unless in the future a Monk can be built for that specific role. A personal wish that last one, but I digress.

I always wondered what happened to Katars for Assassins. Hm. Knuckles also only seem to be on the wrists that I've seen, mostly with the rock on my arm that looks like something out of a game I played once rather than actual knuckles. (Legend of Legaia)

Monks aren't required to use their feet either. You could be thinking about the Sura from RO1. Lightning Walk doesn't at least in it's animation.

Aesthetically I'll agree that the class could use some flavor though.


Edited by KaintheOmega, 27 February 2014 - 12:14 AM.

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#27 Tiduspeco

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:13 PM

4. Weapon. You see compare to Sin they wear it in both hands.. Why Monks only wear in one hand? why is that? It doesn't make sense at all since monks don't have sharp weapons atleast we get to have to knuckles right? My monk's other will be injured by punching my targets with metal armor.. ^_^

So many people have brought this up so I'll remind you once more. In RO1, monks never dual-weilded knuckles. And even if you look at monk's normal attack in RO1 it's the same fist over and over. If fact, I think all monk skills might have been performed with 1 hand. Monk was not designed to be a martial arts character. That's the job of taekwon.


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#28 KaintheOmega

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:06 PM

Okay, I've come to the conclusion that IW definitely doesn't seem to work on Boss enemies, sadly. Although that would--like with the possibility of Lightning Walk, be OP. Beating on plenty of bosses with HT produced no results. Just getting stunned myself.

To the guy saying that there's a cost to Ki Protection, it's always been that way less you have Steel Body turned on. Sadly, our defensive toggle's sad excuse for an extra effect.


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#29 Chocs

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:19 AM

Okay, I've come to the conclusion that IW definitely doesn't seem to work on Boss enemies, sadly. 

 

Went online just now only to check for myself, and came to a different conclusion-- Unless these monsters were not boss tagged?

 

dGeIqGY.jpg

 

To be fair, IW only proc once on both occasions, so 5% is definitely too low to be used with GF outside of sheer luck...


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#30 KaintheOmega

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:15 AM

Hopefully it was just that RNG wasn't with me all that time. Thanks for the screenshot though. Restores a bit of confidence in my class. LOL


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#31 Chocs

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:51 AM

In my opinion IW should be a Guillotine Fist 100% chance proc. It shouldn't be too OP in terms of damage over time since the GF bonus damage effect would only work if you use GF twice in a row, and that would depend on using Summon Spirit Sphere which has a high CD itself.

 

That should lend itself more use in PvP where, like in RO1, GF is a certain kill move with usage limitations (outside of spamming yggs of course..).

 

Oh, and with IW removed from HT, might as well put the 3 target AoE effect back in there.


Edited by Chocs, 28 February 2014 - 04:17 AM.

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#32 KaintheOmega

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:23 AM

So the effect would only be usable if we spent 5/5 points into Summon Spirit Sphere?

As for AoE, why not remove the cool down on Lightning Crush at 6/6 too? Like a Beastmaster's Beast Tornado.


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#33 Chocs

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:24 AM

So the effect would only be usable if we spent 5/5 points into Summon Spirit Sphere?

Not necessarily 5/5 -- That just depends on how often you think you want to make use of the +100% damage, right? As long as you have SSS you can use two GF consecutively, thus making effective use of IW for that purpose.

 

Say in PvP you do Fury -> Lightning Walk -> Guillotine Fist *IW procs* -> SSS -> Guillotine Fist *IW procs*

 

First GF will be critical hit, the second one will be double damage :heh: assuming it hits of course

 

The point is that you can make it happen when it matters rather than relying on luck. Certainly more merit than waiting for RNG to proc it while Fury is activated, as I've come to experience...

 

Another reason I'd like to put IW on GF is because of its Boss stopping capability. The only player skill in the entire game that could do something like that... should be Guillotine Fist, the skill that old man Jehoon used to punt Bapho from Payon all the way back to Mt Mjolnir.

 

 

 

As for AoE, why not remove the cool down on Lightning Crush at 6/6 too? Like a Beastmaster's Beast Tornado.

Sounds pretty fair considering they have the exact same damage... but it feels like we're going back to the role discussion, in this case managing adds? I wonder if BMs even need it that way.


Edited by Chocs, 28 February 2014 - 09:27 AM.

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#34 KaintheOmega

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:22 PM

Yes, but 5/5 keeps us doing Guillotine Fist 3 times every two minutes. Which I'm not sure is better comparable to other class' "Guillotine Fist"; Like Rage Strike, or many other skills that do just about the same with a difference or two. There are a lot of Bosses out there too that the 20% (could be higher) HP requirement would be more useful on, as most likely a single Guillotine Fist at +100% (10/10) may not necessarily kill, which leaves the possibility to do it twice for the same bonus. The automatic Critical Hit being another story for obvious reasons. Can Guillotine Fist still miss? Does the new "Full AGI build for all" mantra make that irrelevant?

Sadly, I don't PVP. I do see however where that would be useful, especially since Knocking Down an enemy player allows for that second effect to be triggered at the same time (for once, as Lightning Walk is useless on a Boss except to rush-in).

Agreed on Beast Tornado; It's the same Skill, only Monks are forced to accept a cool down even when dumping points into it. Of which I don't & never will. All the numbers other wise are the same. According to the Beastmaster thread though, not many realize that.

When I hear that word I can help but make a deep sigh. It took me forever to figure out what my role was; which actually I'm still unsure of. The fact that I'm stuck to one role (Tank or GTFO) that other classes can do better at makes it tougher. I get laughed at when I mention DPS.The bigger thing be joining post-Advent of Valkyrie only, there is no support for Monk here. Suffice to say I'm still learning, especially in terms of what we have over or compared to other Tanks (being like ... 3 others?). I'll admit I'm not even sure if I'm playing this class right half the time. LOL

Edit; Sad is when your guild tries to convince you to lay a different class. Monk ... *sigh*

http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
Judge away, as I'm sure you'll find a flaw or two with this. I know this isn't "that kind of thread", or at least I don't think it is, but I hope for the sake of discussion ...

I also have another question; would you mind testing the Internal Wound theory on the kinds of bosses in Dungeons or Raids? The little bar above their HP insists that it's possibly a different case. Field bosses having 3 bars, yellow to orange; where the other ones' bars are full to red & looking like they'll explode at any second. LOL


Edited by KaintheOmega, 28 February 2014 - 04:12 PM.

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#35 Insansshadow

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 06:06 PM

Character: SoulEater

Class: Monk

1. I second the person who said; "The way Monk sit is lame and it should look more as meditation"

 

2. I do think that we are not an AOE class, but it would be nice to have a lower cd in ours for more threat generation when tanking and increase our capacity of farming while in parties (kill many mobs at a time or tank them).

 

3. Spirit spheres flying around the monk would look soooooooo AWSOME!!

 

4. I think people and RO2 designers need to understand that a monk should be viable in either a tank and a dps position, and not only as a Tank Class (Even knight can make awesome dps builds with the increase in crit damage per every point of int, meaning you can build a agi, str, int dps Knight (I´ve seen the damage and it´s awesome))

 

This being said, I think a Monk should be able to choose for a path of gear and skills to be a really good dps without having to be a tank (combo Monk as a dps build and a Non-Combo Monk (Spam Lightning Crush and once in a while use other abilities) for Tank (for tank get more benefits for HP and def)

 

5.- In my most sincere opinion it is bad in term of balance to add Dodge and Hit in one same stats because the agi classes will benefits from this stat in a tremendous way since they obtain those stats from most of their gear plus cards and additional stats.

 

6.- A Knuckle is not a Bracelet (please help the Monks avoid serious injuries to their hands due to the scammers selling bracelets as Knuckles)

 

7.- In terms of fluent animation giving the monks 2 Knuckles would allow nice combo animations (We can use our left hand). In case this is not a viable idea, you can always use the right hand for punching and left hand for throwing spirit spheres (you can add flying spirit spheres around the left hand and have the monk throw them and use them with his left hand)

 

8.- Lightning Walk might be an awesome stun, however it has a chance of missing (plus the additional bugs and high CD) (A really BIG CHANCE OF MISSING due to the "balanced" stats)

 

9. A monk only using his right fist to hit the enemy might look as a boxers using only JAB with his right arm (not cool). In RO1 this did not had a really big impact due to the game being 2D.

 

10. You can leave the kick for the taekwondo only if you will add the job (if you have no intentions of including the job, then give kick skills to the monk (might add fluidity to the animation combos)


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#36 KaintheOmega

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:01 PM

The effects of AGI are crazy for everyone. I don't think there's a class that doesn't spec for Full AGI right now because of HIT.
My Lightning Walk never really misses, although I'm built for Full AGI. Not just because of the broken stat as after it is fixed (if at all) it will benefit us more (+1 more Dodge per AGI).
Raging Blow actually strikes twice, once with each hand. To be honest a knuckle only feels as a Quiver is to a Ranger, as I'm still striking with my bare hands.

I'm entirely for 4. As if you pay attention to some of our equipment 50 & below you'll notice one is made with Parry, Dodge & other defensive stats in mind; Where as the other has Haste, Vigor, & other attacks that allow us to hit faster & harder. After 50 however, equipment for everyone is stripped of all these diverse stats for only a handful of others. The biggest puzzle being as to why we have Cast Speed.

283604_10151061552924050_2143968915_n.jp


Edited by KaintheOmega, 28 February 2014 - 07:24 PM.

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#37 Netamong

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:15 PM

The Monk is pose to be just as good as the warror this is the truth.


Edited by Netamong, 28 February 2014 - 08:42 PM.

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#38 KaintheOmega

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:10 PM

Why do I feel that really isn't true at all? LOL


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#39 Chocs

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:11 AM

Monk fighting pose looked alright pre-AoV. I'd have to say they look silly now, haha.

 

There's truly a lot of things about the game that could have been done so much better, mainly regarding how stats are handled. The mystery of cast speed might be due to the fact that Monks stem from Acolytes...

 

About GF; I would say giving it a 100% accuracy is reasonable (like in RO1) considering its high CD. Dunno what other would think. Just came back from trying out a laggy colo so my opinions are swayed. As for my suggestion about IW, it would also be easy to burst enormous threat reliably at the beginning of a boss fight and get ahead, so it should have use outside of PvP. A crit Rage Strike is down to luck, and I admit that Greatsword stats need to be dialled down a tad  :wah:

 

As for testing on those bosses (LOL) I'll... try it eventually, if no one else tries it before then.

 

Yeah roles are kinda something you're peer pressured to run with here. I started my first Warrior in kRO2 as a DPS and it became frustrating after hitting 50...  now people don't care, hah. That said, I haven't played seriously but it feels like Monks now can deal damage faster and consistently compared to Warriors. More choices and versatility would be great no doubt; wonder what the honing system will change in that regard (when it does come back without breaking the game).

 

Here's what I'm using right now: http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

Missed the skill reset opportunity so I haven't got to play around with everything D:


Edited by Chocs, 01 March 2014 - 01:18 AM.

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#40 Insansshadow

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:10 AM

The effects of AGI are crazy for everyone. I don't think there's a class that doesn't spec for Full AGI right now because of HIT.
My Lightning Walk never really misses, although I'm built for Full AGI. Not just because of the broken stat as after it is fixed (if at all) it will benefit us more (+1 more Dodge per AGI).
Raging Blow actually strikes twice, once with each hand. To be honest a knuckle only feels as a Quiver is to a Ranger, as I'm still striking with my bare hands.

I'm entirely for 4. As if you pay attention to some of our equipment 50 & below you'll notice one is made with Parry, Dodge & other defensive stats in mind; Where as the other has Haste, Vigor, & other attacks that allow us to hit faster & harder. After 50 however, equipment for everyone is stripped of all these diverse stats for only a handful of others. The biggest puzzle being as to why we have Cast Speed.

283604_10151061552924050_2143968915_n.jp

 

¿¿¿¿You never miss your Lightning Walk at pvp????


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#41 KaintheOmega

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:20 PM

What little I PVP, no. I don't really PVP though. That has more to do with the AGI issue than Lightning Walk's accuracy too; Everybody is Full AGI, or so it seems. I think the real accuracy problem lies in our big hitter Guillotine Fist, as even spec'd into Full AGI I find I miss a target more than I'd like. Not 100% sure on PVP.


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#42 Harkoa

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:38 PM

Character: Yllavyre
Feedback Type: Skill & Suggestion & Stats
Skill: Lightning Crush & Steel Body

 
Feedback (skill - lightning crush): Remove the cooldown. First, most other classes have AoEs that don't require to be maxed to hit 10 targets, but ours does, and Second, most other classes have zero CD for their AoEs, yet we do (and we're expected to hold threat - *open landslide of monks are 1v1 tank comments~*)
 
Feedback (skill - steel body): Removing the attack power reduction from steel body might help with the dps thing, yes it's a tank skill, but monks aren't as strong as the other tanks to have that adding to the problem.

Feedback (suggestion): And in general, it'd be nice to see agi on more of our gear than just weapons, possibly a self heal, or party buff. We also need to be more defined in our roles. Either give us more tank-like things, or more dps-like things, or allow us to be versatile and choose via our talent tree. As it is, we're meant as a tank but a very weak 1v1 tank (which is almost useless/undesired in any situation).
 
Feedback (stats): And what's with all the cast speed stuff on our armors? Monks don't need this at all. Please change it to something more useful =/
 
I feel like monks have been lost in this never-ending loop of 'it's an in-limbo class, thus it's unpopular, and because it's unpopular, it won't get attention'

 

 

 

 

Random positive thing: I love the monk armor designs  :p_hi: 


Edited by Harkoa, 05 March 2014 - 08:16 PM.

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#43 Arbalist

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:27 AM

So I'm just going to leave this little story here for discussion, because it's relevant to Monks pre-master level. With the update a few patches ago that allows 1st class to use Pandora weapons, I easily made a new level 50 acolyte. I made a monk that started at level 25 before and it was nowhere near as fast (of course, pre-AOV). 

 

Rationale for leveling as acolyte:
-Heals (and therefore no potion consumption)
-Ranged attacks and DOT
-Free SP recovery

-Able to tank 10 mobs at a time (up to around level 40) and 5 after that (up to level 50) using only level 17-23 greens.

My Pandora mace was only green too, no luck finding a blue one. I started using it around level 29, but of course, if I found it earlier I could start as early as level 1.

 

Anyways, just thought it might be interesting to also considering how to make monks more attractive for 25-50 as well. What are the current pros/cons for leveling as Monks? What can be changed to make the experience at least equal to or better?

 

Personally, I feel 1st class shouldn't have access to Pandora weapons, but this rush to 50 mentality is still very ingrained into the game. Of course, the dodge/hit rate is still prevalent problem and another reason why I can tank using greens. However, even if that were fixed, I can change to single target fighting and I could still kill the mob before it reaches me. Problems, problems everywhere.


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#44 Chocs

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:26 AM

^ Wow... too bad, I tried to equip a blue Pandora spear on my level 8 Archer and it won't let me.. :sob:

..not that archer skills would work with it anyway.

 

I also have another question; would you mind testing the Internal Wound theory on the kinds of bosses in Dungeons or Raids?

Dunno if anyone else already tried, but here it is:

 

S718ERQ.jpg


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#45 Arbalist

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:36 AM

The first class Pandora weapons are like this:
Swordsman = Knight Sword
Mage = Sorceror Staff
Archer = Ranger Bow
Acolyte = Priest Mace
Thief = Rogue Dual Daggers

Greatswords, Rods, Spears, Knuckles, Claws, Scythes, and Soul Handles are still exclusive to their respective classes. Yes, Alters don't get to use Pandora weapons.


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#46 Shinyusuke

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 03:13 AM

I admit i'm a knight and i was spying all the low agi classes to see if there are suggestion or complaon about the actual hit formula and I have a question for you monks since i didn't notice anione addressing it: how can you hit anything especially in pvp if you have no agi in your gears?
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#47 Meconopsis

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 03:53 AM

I admit i'm a knight and i was spying all the low agi classes to see if there are suggestion or complaon about the actual hit formula and I have a question for you monks since i didn't notice anione addressing it: how can you hit anything especially in pvp if you have no agi in your gears?


There are not enough monks playing PvP modes. It's not that we are complaining about hit rates or not, it's more that there is not enough monk players to start a complaint. We have the same problems hitting things even worse for having literally no AGI.

Compared to a Knight that has a higher playerbase, the voice will be a lot more noticeable for stuff like this.
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#48 Shinyusuke

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:58 AM

I guess it has to be the reason i just hope this problem won't bring to a rebalance of the agi of our class only leaving all the other classes that didn't addresses this problem (monks in a special way) whit exactly the same issue as before. I hope our class rapresentant will be able to work together to fix this common issue and maybe see more monks around in the future  :p_idea:


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#49 Meconopsis

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:05 AM

I can only hope. As it currently is, I am trying to put out a few suggestions to bring monk to be more appealing while toning down the glaring skills that would make monk overpowered. Then again whoever does end up being VCR of monk will probably be reporting such suggestions of their own.

The only real problem for monks is the lack of players willing to fix up the class because there are very few who actively post and comment on the monk class since almost all the vocal monks that played before AoV all quit while most of the pre-AoV monks around are silent or are like me, in limbo about quitting. I really hope the two VCRs that win become or are already vocal within the forums because there is really no debate on the class yet, although it has glaring problems beyond simple big fixes and numbers.
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#50 Imhorny

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 09:36 PM

I admit i'm a knight and i was spying all the low agi classes to see if there are suggestion or complaon about the actual hit formula and I have a question for you monks since i didn't notice anione addressing it: how can you hit anything especially in pvp if you have no agi in your gears?


Pvp monk here with 3055 hit, and it's still not good enough. But then again, I didn't grind to get 100 more stat points and 16 more skill points.
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