17 replies to this topic

[Oda]

Need to brainstorm some useful but not too powerful weapons/equipment for new players, much like how it is done with the Eden Group. How do you feel about equipment when you're just getting started? What is the biggest turn off for new players when they hit a wall, is it gear, or consumables, or zeny?

 

What can be done to get non-veteran players interested and participating in Guilds, PVP, WoE and other systems of the game that need a lot of people.

[IlliterateGaming]

Quickly grab some coffee; you'll be here a while.

 

Obtaining Weapons:

 

Spoiler

First of all, how far should players be able to go with their initial set of gear? At what point should players be expected to be able to upgrade? How much can we assume new players are making per hour in zeny? How much are they losing on consumables? These questions may be hard to answer because anyone that sells $5 in kafra shop items will be able to bypass all the difficulties of starting out. Balance is critical.

 

Perhaps from a financial standpoint it would be a good idea to give brand new characters 3 day Kafra Shop rental gear when they class up to their 1st job. That way, players will be accustomed to rental gear and therefore more willing to rebuy them when their gear expires. I personally believe the *most ethical* solution is to drastically reduce the cost of inputs required for pure forge blacksmiths. Reducing costs would make elemental weapon crafting worthwhile, and affordable to people who actually need elemental weapons. Once you become a veteran player elemental weapons are typically not your best option, but for players who legitimately level in sandmen on their first agi, dex, str rogues elemental weapons can be powerful tools. The upside to an inflow of elemental weapons is that it would allow players to support other players, not players establishing a dependence on NPCs to provide every item they need.

 

Importance of Gear, Consumables, and Zeny:

 

Spoiler

The root of the triangle is consumables. Gear increases your survivability and reduces your need for supplies. Example: You can level in thors without crazy gear, but the weaker you are the more consumables you use. Zeny represents your ability to buy both gear and consumables, however flooding new players with zeny would only flood the game with bot abuse etc. Without analyzing external factors, I think most new players would consider their “wall” lack of zeny. Not understanding that zeny ultimately only translates into gear and consumables. Therefor their real problem is the lack of ability to obtain resources required to level. 

 

As many have probably noticed the game has a theme. Monsters tend to drop cards that allow you to destroy monsters in the area better. Example: Kobold Leader Card allows you to inflict more damage to kobolds, Sky Petite Card reduces damage from Dragons.  Perhaps if new quests were implemented to hunt in certain areas the reward would be items that increase damage to (or reduce damage from) the monster’s type you are assigned to kill. EXP rewards are fleeting and often do not give players a feeling of lasting benefit from achieving quest completion. Equipment is tangible and in some cases creates memories. Equipment has power. The more equipment you gain in Ragnarok the harder it becomes to walk away from it. People are more proud of achieving something tangible and permanent than getting 23% of level 45. Rewards from quests should be personal. They should have the player’s name on it. It should reinforce the idea that the player earned that item, and that item is theirs.

 

Engaging players in PvP, WoE, Guilds, and other systems:

 

Spoiler

PvP is something that players need to ease into. Many people are risk averse; think of the key markets Brazil, United States, some Europe, China, Thailand, and Australia. Most of these countries have an uncertainty avoidance index rating over 50. I can personally tell you that Brazil + Thailand make up 30% of my total audience on YouTube. Uncertainty Avoidance Index rating of 76 and 64 respectively (out of 120). *Sorry for the Homework lesson, but this is iRO so target audience is somewhat important* Perhaps this can help explain why people on renewal are so attached to “Safe” upgrade certificates.

 

What does this have to do with PvP? Well a lot. People are afraid of wasting their items, they are afraid of dying, they are not sure what to expect. These barriers need to be slowly pushed down by the game’s culture. Maybe turning PvP mode on in towns would be a good event to start showing people that participating in PvP isn’t so bad. Another thing that we should be aware of is that less than half of the people that play RO want to play the game solo. Only a couple countries have high “Individualism” based on Hofstede’s cultural dimensions. Remember when battlegrounds thrived before renewal? That was because you could party with friends and not worry about being split up. Now people are uncertain which team they will end up on and if they are not with their friends they are more likely to either not participate, or AFK.

 

What does all this mean? It means that we need to start treating PvP and other events as “Collective” activities. And whenever possible we should eliminate player’s feelings of uncertainty. Minimize the amount of loss at stake for players. This means eliminating fear. People don’t want to go into PvP afraid of being dunked on by someone with 4 God Items on them. People want to know what they are getting in to and that anyone has (relatively) equal opportunity to succeed.

 

Edited by IlliterateGaming, 27 February 2014 - 06:49 PM.

[Victoryblood]

In no particular order:

-Job exp. Lower the job exp requirements for the first classes so new players won't get bored too soon. I want newblets to be able to reach job 50 when their base level is still in the 30s. Let's get them to 2nd class in no time flat. A level 40 knight with bowling bash would be awesome to play. A level 40 wizard with storm gust would be hilarious to play. Earlier skills for the new guys.

-After job changing, the npc will offer a stat reset or magical stones for a stat reset. Neuralizers given after job changing to 2nd class.

-Free newbie dungeon scrolls for low leveling areas.

-Newb weapons. Make them stronger than the npc weapons (most npc weps are crap), But less powerful than the kafra rental ones. Example a knife that has 150 atk.

-Mini battle manuals that are rewarded from quests that give 1.5x exp increase and last 5 minutes.

-Heal items. Newbies should be given thousands of account bound, weightless potions after job changing and also from doing quests. I'm talking Dragon Saga-esqe very cheap

potions that heal your hp and you never run out before you can afford thousands more so you can keep on leveling for hours and hours. Account bound.

-SP items. New players don't like to sit to restore sp. They can't afford the high priced strawbs nor the kafra blues. So where do the newbs get sp items?

-Monster kill count. Player kill count. Death count. Mvp kill count. Statistics like these mean a lot to any gamer who cares about their own progress. The numbers stick.

-Mini games. The ones like last year's anniversary event were really fun.

 

TL;DR:

 

The game needs to be less rigid and more cushy.

[heyxsean]

idk noobies getting 10~15% neutral resist gaument, 5% hp/sp Shoe and stuff like that - basically half-baked meta gears for pvming sounds good. People already lvl by merc now anyways, but if they don't have or can't afford ... can at least ease the pain of lvling for them for free. I have had about 5 people this week asking me for zeny for pots because they run out so quick lol

 

 

[Mikril]

I just started out about a month ago and the biggest wall that I hit was elemental weapons costing 9m. I wouldn't go as far as allowing people to buy iron and ori from NPCs, but doubling the success rates would have a huge effect on the prices. Otherwise I would give the players a handful of elemental converters to use, tied to the character (can't put in storage). 

 

The training ground already makes it very easy to reach first class. There are tiered hunts inside that increase in difficulty - maybe if you complete all the hunts, you can choose between a condor or pupa card on leaving the mob killing area. This would make those cards completely worthless to turn around and sell, but they would be invaluable to new players just starting out. And really, the only people actively selling those cards right now are bots anyway.

 

I'm not sure I would touch exp requirements for base or job levels, since the exp hunts already make it easy. We don't want players to level super fast only to run headfirst into the massive grind on reaching second class.

[Oda]

Yeah, the only issue that we really have to worry about is that while we want to put in fun stuff for new players we have to balance that vs. a lot of bots will try to exploit them. So that means that making these rewards account bound is a must. 

[thatfool]

the novice class is just plain waste of time. if im new to the game and dont know where to level my novice, i would quit the game in 4 minutes 

[thatfool]

those rewnewal eden equipments seems to be decent for starters

[DrAzzy]

I think the Eden Group gears on renewal provide a good model - they were kRO's response to the same issue, and (surprisingly, for kRO), they do a pretty good job of easing the transition from newbie npc junk gear, to gears that one can start to level seriously with. 

[ClickyHpen]

first off please don't make thatfool's idea anything more than an option because some people do like to make weird things like permanovices and not leech them OK THANKS

 

second http://forums.warppo...vation-station/ what happened to this, it was really cool ! adds more pvm content (people HAVE been looking for reasons to log on outside of woe, right ?) and new players get things ! in my wildest dreams it would only be gear the first time you do a quest and then it's exp or something i dunno. but yeah ! this seemed like a good idea ! what happened :C i'm sure someone could write up a little story for a low level instance. heck, i could knock something out in an afternoon or two.

 

anyways, low level pvm content wooooo

[Oda]

first off please don't make thatfool's idea anything more than an option because some people do like to make weird things like permanovices and not leech them OK THANKS

 

second http://forums.warppo...vation-station/ what happened to this, it was really cool ! adds more pvm content (people HAVE been looking for reasons to log on outside of woe, right ?) and new players get things ! in my wildest dreams it would only be gear the first time you do a quest and then it's exp or something i dunno. but yeah ! this seemed like a good idea ! what happened :C i'm sure someone could write up a little story for a low level instance. heck, i could knock something out in an afternoon or two.

 

anyways, low level pvm content wooooo

Not being able to create new monsters put a bit of damper on that, but I would certainly like to revisit the idea. 

 

Some story line hooks would be nice as well. 

[needmorezleep]

Wouldn't you be able to take duplicated monsters like the ones MvPs use and turn those into monsters? Like reverting the MvP summons into real mobs with drops and using the current summons as new monsters. I know it's abusable with things like Valkyrie but you can use lesser mobs like the Sandman spawns from Phreeoni that aren't a big deal.

[MizunoAoi]

Question, are you allowed to palette swap things on your own?  Then again that'd require an new mob id wouldn't it....  But that could give you "new" monsters to do stuff with.

[ClickyHpen]

Not being able to create new monsters put a bit of damper on that, but I would certainly like to revisit the idea. 

 

Some story line hooks would be nice as well. 

 

i don't really see a need to make whole new monsters, i figure story hooks are the important part. is renaming a monster out of the question ? we could have goblin, kobold, and orc rivalries, where a party helps one side win over the other for stuff like a modified orc sword, boots, helm... and those are just the ones that already have base items (i'm counting the ethereal orc boots or whatever i see vended sometimes)

 

i'm sure i could either put a plot to that or come up with something better, just kinda curious what you're looking for. i'm thinking less town things, since many fields have nothing relevant on them in terms of quests.

[Oda]

Question, are you allowed to palette swap things on your own?  Then again that'd require an new mob id wouldn't it....  But that could give you "new" monsters to do stuff with.

Due to client limitations, while we can create new equipment and items (so long as they use an existing sprite) we are not able to create new monster numbers like we can for items.

[jenkat]

the novice class is just plain waste of time. if im new to the game and dont know where to level my novice, i would quit the game in 4 minutes 

 

Assuming one skips the Training Ground, you'd level your novice on any map immediately outside of whatever town you started in. That's pretty much par for the course in every gave I've ever played. It doesn't seem to me like the kind of thing one would experience any uncertainty about.

[Wingz89]

from my experience. Run out of pot is 1 of the problem for newbie/new starter. So may b can put a npc that give some rewarding pot / reasonable amount of zeny for pot. Or can put some daily login reward or weekly or even monthly attendance... must be log on at least for an hour or 2 like that. Im just share my opinion only pls dun screw me if im wrong.


As for equipment... I think we can create some eden like equipment from new starter too. I like to make those "classic gear" into each class.

Swordman set:
def- total around 15-20
Effect- 1)it can b some pot amplify for orange o yellow pot. 2) some hp recovery amplify too. 3)improve bash dmg and/or stun %

Mage set:
Def n mdef - total around 5-10def n 15mdef
Effect -1) pot amplify for red pot 2) some sp recovery amplify 3) may b can improve magic coat defensive setting or reduce the sp usage.

Archer:
Def- around 10
Effect - 1)pot amplify for Orange or yellow pot 2)+hp recovery n sp recovery% 3) chance to do double stafe when attavking n arrow repel when attacked

Aco:
Def n mdef- total around 10-15def n 5-10mdef
Effect- 1) increase healing skill agaisnt undead or heal effectiveness 2) +sp recovery % 3) killing an undead give some sp.

Thief:
Def- total around 10-15def
Effect- 1) pot amplify for orange or yellow pot 2) +20 flee 3) + some hp when killing a monster

Merchant:
Def- total around 15-20 def
Effect- 1)amplify meat n monster feed healing 2) chance to drop meat n monster feed when killing monster 3) increase cart revo dmg

Above is my opinion of the starting gear. It must be wearing full set in order to gain the effect, or otherwise it only give some individual def. Renewal eden gear give some neutral dmg reduction but if it happen in may ruin some card or official equipment in classic, so i did not think to put it, or may be 5% reduction is enough? Make the gear upgradable also be the better choice for dmg reduction. The gear can be obtain again if you broke them by daily.

However It still at least give some survivability in recovery either by sitting or using pot. As for pot I think yellow n orange pot is the better choice for starter game... red pot for novice. N yellow orange pot is seldom use or appear in market, may be server can lowering the yellow orange pot price as it really seldom use either in woe pvp or even pve as well as meat n monster feed.

Correct me if it is...

[Acowlyte]

Ragnarok Online has a cool lore, but it's loose even for veteran players. It could be used to help new players and also explain better the lore to new people. For this, character progression can be connected to it with a cool storyline and quests. These quest would be used to guide the player on how the game works and also give the player useful rewards, like equipment and consumables that will help them to keep playing and having fun while exploring the game and its lore.

There's also no need create new items for this. The game has a lot of "2nd tier gear" already: Harpy card, Condor card, Pick card, Rodda Frog card, Hoods, Mufflers, Guards, Sandals, Shoes, lots of armors, hats and consumables. The list can keep going forever.
Instead of adding more to the game, make it the right way by reusing those.

Most of players will agree that what makes Ragnarok different is the freedom it gives to you. You can level up your game in a lot of ways, and a fixed storyline is exactly the inverse of that.
But hey, there's no need to make it the only way to level up, there is also no reason to make it the best way to level up. As the player gets better at the game, he will find better ways to do things. And that's nice, the exploration phase is the best part of the game.

Being a new player on Ragnarok is awful. You don't know what to do, how to play. I find people not knowing how to use a skill, which is a basic thing.
There is so many "hidden", broken and things that lacks explanation on how they work in the game (who the hell would think that there's a command to make your character auto-attack?!). Things like this needs to change. And we can give you suggestions on how fix most of them. Just that would make the game A LOT better.

Anyway, are you guys at Gravity willing to change things on Classic? We don't know what you guys can do and that limits ours suggestions a lot. A better communication between the team and the community will be great as we could give more and better suggestions.

Edited by Acowlyte, 31 July 2014 - 03:04 PM.