70 replies to this topic

[flukeSG2]

I've decided to stop being a negative and volunteer myself for whoever ends up getting the position. Although I do not have enough time to actually apply for the position itself if there is anything I can do to help just let me know. BUT I STILL HATE ARROW VULCAN. I think as a class based on range, mobility and quick bursty damage that a skill that roots you in place is not an adequate finisher. Why should we forfeit our mobility and sit there to cast a finisher. Imagine if a warrior had to remove all of their armour to rage strike(Ithink that is there finisher idk whichever one wrecks my face when it connects) or if every time a sorc was about to 1 shot you they had a no healing debuff seconds prior.

 

 

Yeah that makes sense, I guess also considering that you give up your mobility for it the damage should be much greater too, but I'd rather be able to move instead.  So I'm gonna add to that list that vulcan arrow should be able to be fired while moving.

 

Is there anything on the list that anyone thinks shouldn't be on there?

[TifaValentine]

I think thats a good idea, tbh. To have a list of things we, ranger players, agree that should be changed/fixed/reworked.

 

Like you, Fluke, I wouldnt want our class to be extremely op (which, I'm afraid, other class might want to be...). I actually had a bad time during the "multishot/PA being op" times because a lot of people raging and bashing on rangers in general and asking for them to be super nerfed, and acting like all rangers are mean and blah blah and have no right to complain at all. It was horrible, not enjoyable. Often made me feel even guilty for playing my class =/

 

Poison arrow maxed was part of my personal build pre AoV. Which is quite useless now and I've had to change my build many times until I could somehow find something I'd feel comfortable with. I've never been much of a fan of VA, altho I've tested a build with it when we had the free resets. I prefer mobility, and a consistent dps. Sure, there's people who still prefer VA, and despite not using it I'd like for it to be fixed anyways.

Ultimately, it all comes about balancing skills for differnt builds/playstyles as we level, and their different uses and purposes in possible scenarios.

 

Perhaps VA isnt as good as finisher for someone who values mobility and consistent dmg over a big burst finisher skill that requires you to stand still. Some may argue that it should be combined with traps (which, tbh, are only situational) and/or pulse impact for its slow. That'd be nice in a 1v1 scenario, however not so good in an open pvp case where you may slow your target but their ally will likely come at you while youre rooted in place casting VA. As I said, its one of many possible situations. Its like how the only real use I find for acrobatics its when I'm derping around climbing places for fun (if only we had something like battle leap ;_; ); its supposed to be a escape/survival skill, but the backflip animation is so stupid buggy (yay endless flip) and the possibility of you being stuck in it if you get stunned/knocked is so high... that it makes it not so good as survival skill. At least, not to me.

 

We should also consider how any changes for our class might affect the interaction with other classes (be it in pvp or pve). This is important too if we want to keep things balanced.

 

 

- Note: I havent suffered from endless backflip animation so far. However Falcon AI seems quite derp at times. Its like it wont do anything if casted on some places/bosses, or even from some angles in one same place. Example: Falcon doesnt wanna attack Osiris at all, altho if you move around and try again, sometimes it might work from a different angle. The same happens with other bosses, falcons react like theres no target.

Edited by TifaValentine, 07 March 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[flukeSG2]

...

 

Yeah, I have been playing around with my skills and sorta wish we had the free resets still.  I guess my build is hybrid pvp/pve you could say.  I love vulcan arrow for the mobs, but thats just because fear breeze can be built up easily on a mob as opposed to a player.  So unless you are 1v1 and have a really really close battle where you can build up fear breeze to activate VA, then it's sorta useless in pvp.  So I considered scrapping Vulcan arrow and maxing Impact arrow, that would probably be more geared toward pvp if you consider the effects it has (to be honest, I'm not even sure where on my hotbar I'd put impact arrow if I had it).

 

Now I have never maxed out Impact Arrow 10/10, I think I did 5/10 once, but at 10/10 is it the strongest attack we have not considering VA's 1400%?  I had always considered Charge Arrow my strongest attack and that is another attack we have to stand still to fire.

[Keiven]

I think thats a good idea, tbh. To have a list of things we, ranger players, agree that should be changed/fixed/reworked.

 

Like you, Fluke, I wouldnt want our class to be extremely op (which, I'm afraid, other class might want to be...). I actually had a bad time during the "multishot/PA being op" times because a lot of people raging and bashing on rangers in general and asking for them to be super nerfed, and acting like all rangers are mean and blah blah and have no right to complain at all. It was horrible, not enjoyable. Often made me feel even guilty for playing my class =/

 

Poison arrow maxed was part of my personal build pre AoV. Which is quite useless now and I've had to change my build many times until I could somehow find something I'd feel comfortable with. I've never been much of a fan of VA, altho I've tested a build with it when we had the free resets. I prefer mobility, and a consistent dps. Sure, there's people who still prefer VA, and despite not using it I'd like for it to be fixed anyways.

Ultimately, it all comes about balancing skills for differnt builds/playstyles as we level, and their different uses and purposes in possible scenarios.

 

Perhaps VA isnt as good as finisher for someone who values mobility and consistent dmg over a big burst finisher skill that requires you to stand still. Some may argue that it should be combined with traps (which, tbh, are only situational) and/or pulse impact for its slow. That'd be nice in a 1v1 scenario, however not so good in an open pvp case where you may slow your target but their ally will likely come at you while youre rooted in place casting VA. As I said, its one of many possible situations. Its like how the only real use I find for acrobatics its when I'm derping around climbing places for fun (if only we had something like battle leap ;_; ); its supposed to be a escape/survival skill, but the backflip animation is so stupid buggy (yay endless flip) and the possibility of you being stuck in it if you get stunned/knocked is so high... that it makes it not so good as survival skill. At least, not to me.

 

We should also consider how any changes for our class might affect the interaction with other classes (be it in pvp or pve). This is important too if we want to keep things balanced.

 

 

- Note: I havent suffered from endless backflip animation so far. However Falcon AI seems quite derp at times. Its like it wont do anything if casted on some places/bosses, or even from some angles in one same place. Example: Falcon doesnt wanna attack Osiris at all, altho if you move around and try again, sometimes it might work from a different angle. The same happens with other bosses, falcons react like theres no target.

mostly the endless backflip happens when you use a skill and acro right away, hopefully tho whoever wins VCR, make it a priority to fix PA and AV, and just a suggestion on the new VCR make falcons automated like a certain chance for it to activate, like back in ro1 make it a 1 hit move that does a decent damage but of course still being a chance skill so it wont be OP. automated Chance damage seems fair enough, intstead of spamming 2 falcons which some of the other classes find really annoying. and re design them make them hover like back in ro1

[StormHaven]

Yeah, I have been playing around with my skills and sorta wish we had the free resets still.  I guess my build is hybrid pvp/pve you could say.  I love vulcan arrow for the mobs, but thats just because fear breeze can be built up easily on a mob as opposed to a player.  So unless you are 1v1 and have a really really close battle where you can build up fear breeze to activate VA, then it's sorta useless in pvp.  So I considered scrapping Vulcan arrow and maxing Impact arrow, that would probably be more geared toward pvp if you consider the effects it has (to be honest, I'm not even sure where on my hotbar I'd put impact arrow if I had it).

 

Now I have never maxed out Impact Arrow 10/10, I think I did 5/10 once, but at 10/10 is it the strongest attack we have not considering VA's 1400%?  I had always considered Charge Arrow my strongest attack and that is another attack we have to stand still to fire.

 

Arrow Vulcan 10/10  1306% (5x ~261.2% each hit suffers from being reduced by def and can miss)

 

Double Strafe 10/10  530%

 

Impact Arrow- 10/10  453%

 

Charge Show  3/3    450%

 

Falcon Assault 5/5   300% (15 Hits total damage dealt 4500% each hit it affected my opponents Def really lowering the damage output to about ~1300%. I've played with VA and Falcon Assault builds for awhile 1 Falcon=1 Vulcan Arrow on just about every single target including mobs effected by elements)

 

Poison Arrow  5/5    250%+450%(15 DoT ticks at 30%each for a total for 450% DoT Damage. this is just for comparison)

Edited by StormHaven, 08 March 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[flukeSG2]

mostly the endless backflip happens when you use a skill and acro right away, hopefully tho whoever wins VCR, make it a priority to fix PA and AV, and just a suggestion on the new VCR make falcons automated like a certain chance for it to activate, like back in ro1 make it a 1 hit move that does a decent damage but of course still being a chance skill so it wont be OP. automated Chance damage seems fair enough, intstead of spamming 2 falcons which some of the other classes find really annoying. and re design them make them hover like back in ro1

 

so you would be in agreement that we should be able to fire arrow vulcan on the run too?  I just wanna make sure I don't get something on that list wrong.

 

So far I think the list looks good.  I guess I could arrange them in a more prioritized fashion like you said.

[Keiven]

so you would be in agreement that we should be able to fire arrow vulcan on the run too?  I just wanna make sure I don't get something on that list wrong.

 

So far I think the list looks good.  I guess I could arrange them in a more prioritized fashion like you said.

im ok with anything moving or non moving VA, i can make adjustment on my playing style, as long as the damage fixed,  and yeah don't forget about my falcon suggestion 

[flukeSG2]

im ok with anything moving or non moving VA, i can make adjustment on my playing style, as long as the damage fixed,  and yeah don't forget about my falcon suggestion 

 

I added it to #3 in paranthesis to fix it.  I haven't ever played RO1 so I'm not sure what you mean by hover, is it always with you and not just appear when the skill is used?  That would be kinda neat, but unnecessary, cool though.  My other question is, how large of hit/damage would you expect from the single chance hit you'd prefer?  I only have level 1/5 Falcon, I'd have to go test it out on some players to get a more accurate feel for it's pvp damage...but I know for sure on the Guardian Leaders yesterday I was getting 8k criticals and my overall damage output with just the Falcon was around 70k.  Would you expect that same damage output with a single strike from the Falcon?

[samsam2610]

https://www.youtube....h?v=s8DbpT6Do64

 

Hovering falcon for you

 

For falcon's auto attack, I would recommend the chance to be equal critical rate at lv 5. Therefore, 20/40/60/80/100% = critical rate that falcon will auto fly out to give a hit. However, falcon auto attack should be different from critical attack, so you may or may not have both attacks at a same time. The auto damage should be either equal 100% of auto attack damage or 20/40/60/80/100% of it. 

 

Imo, two falcons at a same time is fine because it takes like 5-6s to call the 2nd falcon after calling the 1st one. During that time, we already lose lots of advantage over the opponent in PvP.

Edited by samsam2610, 08 March 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[StormHaven]

There's not really any issues with falcon's damage in pvp or pve. As for guardians 5/5 falcons do about 12k crits on them 6k normal so 90k-180k damage.

[TifaValentine]

I'm all up for a cast-on-move VA, tbh. Sure, other classes will argue that our skills are all casted on the move while most others have to stand still but...they need to realize rangers:

a.) dont have ANY self-heal, so thats less survivability upon receiving a bunch of dmg, 

b.) RELY on the whole moving a lot to keep safe distance from targets (duh, we're a ranged class after all),

c.) we have no real rooting/stop skill (like a freeze or stun/knockdown) other than slows and a snare trap which is only good if the target is stupid enough to stand on it for a while (which....doesnt happen so much...) and its easily avoidable.

Really, rangers do depend on moving and sniping at distance, 'cause if a melee class manages to lock us on close-combat we're likely screwed up :V And pray your dodge is high enough to avoid a spell and not get brutally murdered by a caster's crit.

 

 

As for a permanently-out hovering falcon.....considering how badly optimized RO2 is, chances are it would only further increase lag issues =/ Trust me, I'd love a falcon more similar to RO1's one, but I'm not sure it'd be properly implemented in here. Not to mention the skill itself would have to be reworked, OR even removed as the way it is now and turned into some kind of passive? with a different formula altogether (because why max a skill that has a -chance- of hitting at all?). Also, if you didn't notice, falcons in ro2 are basically a clone of sorc's summon aqua. And VERY few sorcs even put more than a point in that one.

 

 

Please do make PA and a decent VA a priority fix. I want my PA back D: My nub ml1 priest does better DoTs than my ml20 full osiris/runed ranger </3

Edited by TifaValentine, 08 March 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[samsam2610]

Permanent falcon could behave like Soulmaker's doll, which is really cute, and it doesn't cause much lag. Among all the classes, ranger is the only class that off-hand weapon isn't shown up

Edited by samsam2610, 08 March 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[DDMM]

i dont know who to vote cause threads been ruined too much LOL .-ings

[ScarletFlames]

Voting for Baddiez 

[flukeSG2]

I'm in a bad mood in case anyone read my original post.

 

So I went and changed up my build to experiment today.  I tried Impact arrow 10/10, Falcon 5/5 and True Sight 5/5.  Now Falcon and True Sight both maxed are pretty cool, I didn't get to try it on a player just the mobs.  I was really disappointed with Impact Arrow, the CD is just too long even at 2 seconds not fast enough to fire them off successively.

 

A thought then came to mind, basically our 2 theoretically strongest attacks requires us to remain still to fire, Charge Arrow and Arrow Vulcan.  What if while we had to remain still our defense increases during that time to compensate for us being immobile?

Edited by flukeSG2, 10 March 2014 - 04:12 AM.

[Baddiez]

I'm in a bad mood in case anyone read my original post.

 

So I went and changed up my build to experiment today.  I tried Impact arrow 10/10, Falcon 5/5 and True Sight 5/5.  Now Falcon and True Sight both maxed are pretty cool, I didn't get to try it on a player just the mobs.  I was really disappointed with Impact Arrow, the CD is just too long even at 2 seconds not fast enough to fire them off successively.

 

A thought then came to mind, basically our 2 theoretically strongest attacks requires us to remain still to fire, Charge Arrow and Arrow Vulcan.  What if while we had to remain still our defense increases during that time to compensate for us being immobile?

 

Maxed Falcon and true sight is pretty fun for pvp. About impact arrow at 10/10 you can essentially chain slow someone forever assuming you hit so I think it is fine as is, but they do need to fix the description or fix the skill to do what the description at 10/10 says. Charge arrow is fine as is it's pretty balanced imo for pvp. Arrow vulcan on the other hand is extremely unviable for pvp atm. I haven't tried it myself as I feel it is a waste of points and zeny to attempt this, but through seeing a few other players pvp while using it (yourself included no offence) the skill either never gets a chance to be caste (person dies too fast) or it is cast,hits like 3-6k or just misses completely. The idea of remaining still to increase defense doesn't make sense for a ranger class at all imo it's odd and doesn't seem like a skill any ranger class should have. (sorry for the negative feedback and rushed jumbled up way I wrote it)

 

 

EDIT: TO CLARIFY I AM NOT RUNNING FOR RANGER VCR.

Although it would be a nice thing to do and seem interesting to be able to help the development team decide which direction the ranger class should be heading, I have too much on my plate atm with school, gf and other things :/ SORRY :'( </3 

I will however be here offering my feedback whenever possible <3

Edited by Baddiez, 10 March 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[brotherwolf]

Would charge arrow while moving be a more realistic request? I mean charging up while moving and having to stand still to fire off a kill shot doesn't seem unfair to me...

[Baddiez]

Charge arrow moving seems more realistic to me even wow did that eventually with the hunter skill which i forget it's name all the time, but then everyone would QQ about it... we all know they would lol

[brotherwolf]

Charge arrow moving seems more realistic to me even wow did that eventually with the hunter skill which i forget it's name all the time, but then everyone would QQ about it... we all know they would lol

 

Yep. Eryone QQs about rangers no matter what. Haha

[Baddiez]

Yeah in guild right now I was trying to explain that to be decent at a ranger is easy just like every other class, but believe it or not at high levels and gear there is skill required to play the class. Some people don't understand they lose to under geared ranger because they suck,

[samsam2610]

I'm in a bad mood in case anyone read my original post.

 

So I went and changed up my build to experiment today.  I tried Impact arrow 10/10, Falcon 5/5 and True Sight 5/5.  Now Falcon and True Sight both maxed are pretty cool, I didn't get to try it on a player just the mobs.  I was really disappointed with Impact Arrow, the CD is just too long even at 2 seconds not fast enough to fire them off successively.

 

A thought then came to mind, basically our 2 theoretically strongest attacks requires us to remain still to fire, Charge Arrow and Arrow Vulcan.  What if while we had to remain still our defense increases during that time to compensate for us being immobile?

Actually, you don't have to max True Sight, 4/5 is enough with the skill rotation windwalk-falcon-true sight-falcon