83 replies to this topic

[teeboyz]

I am the 3rd..Sorry to say my computer is too old for opening 3 clients..One client would lag sometimes..GA queue system is just plain sucked and the game mode too..The pattern stay the same

[Bendersmom]

I am sick of people saying clerics are OP.  That is what got our def lowered, etc. The buff system might be OP but clerics themselves are far from OP. Especially now after the latest update.  Battle clerics got a good boost and they are scoring points now and getting kills.  Mages got more def and their skills are even stronger now.  Full support clerics lost 1k def, new skills that are supposed to help the party with clearing wounded, etc.  And when you group up with another good FS cleric you can actually help your side in GA a bit before you die.  But if you happen to be the lone FS cleric you are sunk.  All gang you and you have no defense against it.  You get immediately stunned, muted, silenced or slept and all gang you.  I am used to being the target and I understand the strategy behind taking out the cleric .... but the cleric can't even help out their team.

 

And it is not just the loss of 1k def.  Other classes got beefed up and hit a lot harder, they all have mutes, stuns, etc.  and the GA has uneven distribution of clerics usually.   

 

I thought one of the ideas of some of these skill updates was to lower damage dealt, etc by all classes.  Then this latest update made some classes hit so hard now and other mechanics that really cut down clerics.  It is definitely no fun playing FS cleric anymore unless you team up with 1-2 other FS clerics before you go in.  which makes the other team have no cleric or one poor cleric who gets really frustrated.  And I would make mine a BC but there will be no FS cleric to buff her in battles lol.

[Soda]

If they're going to lower mage/BC damage (means a nerf on mental focus), then they should lower raider's damage as well. I've been looking at their damage inflict on CD and they almost do the same damage as other class with aoes (mage/bourg/champ).

[kwayan19]

BCs has low accu and they cant kill support clerics alone (a good one) .. 

 

take alook at xbow scouts, champs with 3 hit dead berserk and raiders with 300+ aspeed now thats OP

 

 

and mages actually didnt have a boost in their def, their MP is the one that got a boost that they use for mana shield

 

and yes i can feel that FS clerics were downgraded as usual

Edited by kwayan19, 16 March 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[Feuer]

If they're going to lower mage/BC damage (means a nerf on mental focus), then they should lower raider's damage as well. I've been looking at their damage inflict on CD and they almost do the same damage as other class with aoes (mage/bourg/champ).

 

That's intentional. 

 

AoE damages are lowered, because they're spread out. Single target damages are strong. Both classes technically posess the same offensive capabilities. Just inflicted via different means. 

[Soda]

I don't think thats right for a class (raider) to deal that much damage specially since they rely only on melees. Even a battle artisan/ gun bourg now has a lower damage compared to raiders and they're both using normal attacks/melees most of the time. I mean I understand if they deal a little bit more damage than arti/bourg since they're close ranged but damage dealt is almost twice (or thrice) than arti/bourg.

 

And i have no complain about other class besides xbow scouts.  And yes, I'm sticking to what I said on my last statement about them being able to tank too much and still do decent damage. Again, I have no problem with their damage. Its when they equip PO7s / def gears and tanking 3-4 chars and still manage to run away. I've seen it happen a couple if times , being able to tank while killing off weak classes in CD is way too easy for them. I don't want to argue with anyone cause I'm going to end up looking dumb defending myself. Say what you want to say but thats my opinion.

Edited by Soda, 17 March 2014 - 01:17 AM.

[Badge]

I don't think thats right for a class (raider) to deal that much damage specially since they rely only on melees. Even a battle artisan/ gun bourg now has a lower damage compared to raiders and they're both using normal attacks/melees most of the time. I mean I understand if they deal a little bit more damage than arti/bourg since they're close ranged but damage dealt is almost twice (or thrice) than arti/bourg.

 

And i have no complain about other class besides xbow scouts.  And yes, I'm sticking to what I said on my last statement about them being able to tank too much and still do decent damage. Again, I have no problem with their damage. Its when they equip PO7s / def gears and tanking 3-4 chars and still manage to run away. I've seen it happen a couple if times , being able to tank while killing off weak classes in CD is way too easy for them. I don't want to argue with anyone cause I'm going to end up looking dumb defending myself. Say what you want to say but thats my opinion.

 

 

+1

[Feuer]

@mom. Noone is saying they're OP in their ability to tank/fight etc. What is being said is the buff system in general is WAY out of whack. Way out of balance. And since Clerics are the MAIN source for buffs, it falls onto them. Sorry to say but there was a point in time when I even considered proposing that clerics not be all stat buffers. That they hold a few key buffs like valkyrie etc. And the others all be divided to other classes. So each class contributes buffs. By doing that it would mean that if you didn't get the 1 class that buffs -clerics now-, it wouldn't be a big deal. If you have a fairly diverse group of classes, your team could get a full buff list going. If you lacked 1 class, you only lacked 1 buff. But right now, if you lack 1 cleric, you lack essentially all buffs. 

 

Not only would it balance the impact of buffs, but Clerics main role in a fight isn't buffing, its healing. I know this sounds like total herassy, but it makes more sense then having 1 class be responsible for all buffs + all healing. 

 

Now that thats out there, it most lkely won't happen, so don't flip out. There are other things that can even out buff effects, and that huge of a change to clerics would be devastating. So now it's not an acceptable idea to me. 

[Bendersmom]

I agree Feuer and we have all discussed that before.  I think each class should have their particular strength buffs.  Raiders could have the msped buff, knights the hp buff, etc.  And clerics would have the all stat and int buff.  That all makes sense until it comes to leveling and farming.  It does not enable people to farm or level solo, etc unless they really change all of the mobs.  But we have talked about it for pvp like CD.  But if they did that and all clerics had were the heals we would also need attacks because just healing would be lame.  So I don't think it would happen, it would make way too many changes to the whole mechanics of game play including pvm.

 

Again, I think clerics are more or less where Leo probably wants them.  The problem is that being a solo cleric in CD is absolutely miserable.  We need to come up with something like the use of purify pots, or change the queue system, or have only muses have mute (to me that is a magic skill and should be only on muses), or shorten the length of mute that scouts, etc. can use.  It is bad enough to leave it on muses, but for so many other classes to have it is crazy. Even if you have 2 clerics in CD you run out of mp a lot trying to heal and because things take your mana.  Between siphon trap, mana burn and mana break clerics often do not have mp.  So now you are muted, being swarmed by players trying to kill you and you have no mp to heal.  None of it is pretty. 

 

Xbow scouts wear cloth or light leather.  There is no reason for them to be able to get the def they have anymore that for clerics or muses.  They wear a shield but that does not make them a champ or knight.  Mages hit way too hard now, especially AOE but at least they can still die.  Raiders hurt a lot. I understand that melee skills are strong but they are hitting way to hard.  And Berserk is still too strong, but the cooldown is long.  And a lot of skills or traps take too much MP from classes in one shot.  The poor knights tank and that is about it and bourgs do down fast, a lot faster than scouts or other classes.

[Feuer]

Seems like yuo have an issue with some feature of just about every class. I think you've lost sight of something. 

[Graziano]

I pay for subscriptions to this game, you don't hear me cry when I lose that benefit at the end of the month.

 

Also, I didn't cry about CHA being turned into the buff modifier. The few times I did suggest something for CHA, was always centered around questing + Farming. I always saw it as a PvM / NPC interaction stat, not something for a fighters build. So thanks for assuming you know something.

 

Honestly, I don't think you care about tiers getting expansions as you like to say you do. I see you walking the fence, trying to please both crowds and appear to be "smarter" by trying to not offend anyone one side of the argument. I see you wanting new tiers + stats, but also to essentially get it for free, because you already spent money for re-rolls. 

 

As for the entirely out of place comment about my ability to make friends in ROSE, You don't know me anymore. You're not even on the same server as me. I have dozens and friends, and dozens of clans that allow me to bounce around them because they enjoy my company. So, please, as you once tried to say to me, if you don't know the entire truth about something, keep your mouth shut about it. <this actually kinda made me laugh, same with my uncle + niece who read it while I typed this out, oh look, making people around me laugh!>

Sorry to correct u once again, i never cried about tiers, i never paid for rerolls to get other tiers. I simply buy them from players with the zulie earned ingame.

These are simple items like backshields, I neve had max int tiers which only could be obtained by rerolling.

I simply don't offend people once they not earn to be offended, why should i bother to start drama.

Reason why I react on your notes is simply because you don't think twice before u react to other people and because the fact u think you think you're a good player when it becomes to pvp. You won't hear me say i'm the best in this or that like you do (don't try to say otherwise, i once leveled with you're 'secret' char and you said that in the party we where both into)

 

Once it becoms to caring, i've made my share of suggestions, and no mather what the suggestion was, u where there to say it was a bad idea. Instead to simply react it's a bad idea you can also think of improvements fo the idea. That's the difference between you and me.

 

Good for you making you're relatives laugh, relatives like uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews can't be chosen.

(The fact u even bother to tell such a thing really show off the kind of person u really are)

Edited by Graziano, 17 March 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Feuer]

Please quote me where I've said I'm the best at anything peleg, I'll be waiting for it. 

[iMatt]

Rose has never been as balanced as it is after this patch.

 

[iMatt]

Please quote me where I've said I'm the best at anything peleg, I'll be waiting for it. 

 

you didn't say you re the best but you say you know more about rose than others.

 

in fact saying you know more about Rose PvP than me alone is funny enaugh so .....

Edited by matthiashornauer, 17 March 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[Graziano]

Please quote me where I've said I'm the best at anything peleg, I'll be waiting for it. 

You can ignore the facts, but you and me both know you said you'r dual raider was the best dual raider in game.

I didn't took a screenshot of it, so it'll be you're word vs mine, but i cannot care about you denying it.

 

 

 

So back on topic for a change again.

War today:

9 attackers with cleric

8 defenders without cleric.

A clericjoined cd, gues in wich team it ends up?

Heads up, it wasn't the already outnumbred defending side.

 

Goodnight

[Feuer]

Yes, I do indeed know very much more then you do about ROSE as a whole Matthias. However, I have still never said I was the BEST at anything. I have also made the comment that my Raider is in the top 10 for PvP as a SUPPORT Raider. MAybe even the top 1. Not damage, Not tank. Simply inflicting timed stuns + possibly the strongest debuffs in an intelligent way. But I would absolutely love to see you or Peleg find a quote or SS of me saying I am the BEST at anything. 

Edited by Feuer, 17 March 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[ChampPower]

Yes, I do indeed know very much more then you do about ROSE as a whole Matthias. However, I have still never said I was the BEST at anything. I have also made the comment that my Raider is in the top 10 for PvP as a SUPPORT Raider. MAybe even the top 1. Not damage, Not tank. Simply inflicting timed stuns + possibly the strongest debuffs in an intelligent way. But I would absolutely love to see you or Peleg find a quote or SS of me saying I am the BEST at anything.

Why do they even need the screenshot? You prove the case for them in this very post. I quote, "maybe even in top 1". There is nobody else in that top 1, so why does it not mean the best? You said the best of anything, isn't it?

I would also like you to prove your claim, "I do indeed know very much more than you do about ROSE as a whole!" (Sorry, I correct your grammar and typo errors." Honestly speaking, I am not impressing with your posts and your game knowledge.

Edited by ChampPower, 17 March 2014 - 06:20 PM.

[Feuer]

Actually, lol that was a typo i still meant top 10* But allow me to rephrase it slightly to make sense. My support raider is within the top 10, maybe the top 10 for support but I cannot be sure, not often do you find another support dual raider* By that I mean I cannot truly be 100% sure that I am, but I am confident the possibility exists. 

[Graziano]

I doubt it was a typo, you said first that ur raider was in the top 10 for support raiders, then u said maybe even the top 1

Having the statement maybe even the top 10 in such a short notice and in the context of you're sentence is very doubtable.

If you have said : I have also made the comment that my Raider is good for PvP as a SUPPORT Raider. MAybe even the top 10. Then it would be an whole different discussion.

 

Perhaps I can give u the benefits of the doubts. But why should i even bother.

 

As i said i didn't take a screenshot of it and that i cannot bother you denying it.

 

[Bendersmom]

We are all trying to discuss the pros and cons of things. Some of us try very hard to make suggestions as well. Some might not make sense to everyone but at the time those suggestions or solutions make sense to the person posting.  Each person in Rose plays differently, that is the beauty of games like this.  A lot of people that play Rose know a lot about the game.  Some have played for years and know the history and changes made and how to best adapt changes to their gameplay. Some know all the best ways to level a character.  Some know the mechanics of the game really well.  Some know the names and locations of all of the NPCs.  And so on and so on......

 

At no time in my life have I ever felt the desire to tell anyone in a game that I play that they are weak, no good, or don't know how to play.  I also do not feel the need to say I am number 1 or number 2000 in a game.  But that is me.  I try very hard to listen to everyone's suggestions, ideas, and even criticism. I do not always agree with everything (as some of you may note lol) but I try very hard not to be disrespectful when answering.  And if I think I can't do that, I don't respond.  I just wish more would do that, we would have much more progress and much better "discussions" about the game. 

 

Feuer - one of the issues people have with you (and we have discussed this before) is that your posts are not always helpful in the discussions going on.  You try to push your ideas down people's throats or make a lot of single line comments about how someone doesn't know anything or how they don't get it or whatever.  You also come off like someone who believes they are far superior to everyone else.  I don't know if that is how you really feel of not but it does not help discussions.  I think you have been a valuable part of Rose and that you do often have good ideas or are able to explain things well.

 

But you do not know how I play.  You do not know what is important to me in the game.  You do not know how I perceive the various encounters I have. Therefore your statements and replies often are not part of the discussion and do nothing but make people feel that you are trying to be superior.  Rose is a free game, so you can write whatever you like, but you often seem surprised when people start "attacking" you.  I am only trying to explain why.  You infuriate a lot of people on the forums by your comments and then we get these back and forth you said he said, with each side trying to defend themselves or make you look bad.  It doesn't help anything.

 

How about we get back on topic, which btw is about Game Arena games.

[NamirBarades]

It's essentially a UW.

 

You need 15 on 15, I'd like to get someone to start it and post some screen shots of it/

 

But at either regard it completely answers the root question of why people was UW back so bad. The ones who are still complaining about it are either a: Leechers who miss getting free points and just stacking 5 clients one way 5 clients the other. Or 2: People who legitimately miss the map itself and the play style. Considering CD, is so close to UW it's almost unreal and people play that as a main GA mode, and Akram Arena is next in line, the issue had been solved. 

 

The very rare 3rd type of person is literally just the people who got tired of people going on strike against the GA modes starting. and end up waiting in qeue for 4 hours with no matches.

 

The point system(especially the point that winning actually meant something and you were not mindlessly clicking on other players and hitting skills), the lack of a group, ability to bring your own cleric, the game being on a timer rather than a queue
 

 

And those are just a few reasons to why UW is missed by a lot of people.  I can admit there were problems, the dorks that leeched so much but never even bothered to play any characters in UW was one of them--However, I did like that I could bring my champ and cleric.. And if my cleric was unneeded I could switch easily to my champ. 

 

 

 

Anywho.. back on topic-- other games let players choose what role they are doing in the pvp instance-- For example, one game I play allows you to choose support, tank, offensive, etc.  Now, part of this requires a player to understand what role they are fullfilling, and I know it could still be abused, but hopefully peer pressure would keep people from abusing it too much-- So basically, why couldn't we just let a cleric select support or offensive.. And then have  min requirements/caps for clerics.  It just requires a little player honesty.  Yes, I know its not cut and dry as far as support/offensive is concerned, but at least it would be a start.

[claw68]

Team synchronization in ROSE?

 

Maybe in DreamROSE or ImaginaryROSE or 10-client with AI Bot with different IP ROSE.

 

Ya all need to start being realistic.

 

Not even with team speak we can sync.

 

*Nsync music starts playing*

[ChampPower]

Mom, why do you think i fight so hard with people? I'm not trying to be mean, i'm trying to really stress + pressure the person in the debate, so they have to think very critically and detailed. I don't always have to do that. Most of the time I don't have to if I'm being honest. but the real reason is exactly that. If you want to ensure that something is a fact, then no matter what you throw at it, be it logic, evidence or opinions, the outcome will remain the same. i force you to think of all aspect of your character. 

i'm not trying to state a fact when i say maybe your team isn't playing as a group, or that you've missed something. I'm trying to get you to really scrutinize your own data. make sure that you've double and triple checked your own views and make sure you didn't overlook something that could change the outcome. Sure I can be really rough sometimes, but with good intentions. Some people lose sight of that, as I believe you have over the last few months worth of debates. i apologise for that, we've both respected each other for a long time, and when we debate, there's no hard feelings when it comes from my side. Though it is incredibly frustrating to have my character and morals constantly questioned, and to be accused of things without a basis or fact. so again, when we debate, or you see me debating someone else, and i'm being harsh when i question them about what they're doing, remember I'm doing it to guarentee they've checked themselves and their logic before making hasty assumptions.

 

A decent example of what i'm trying to prevent; right after the most recent update, I saw a raider say "really/ 30 second sleep? that's so dumb, I gotta complain about that. i'll submit a ticket on the forums about it' When I questioned them, they said the timer when they get slept is 30 seconds. I asked them to show me. What had happened was, the player got slept and saw the "rested' buff icon. instead of reading the description from hovering the mouse over the buff, they saw a sleepy icon with a 30 second timer. I explained that it wasn't a sleep, that it was a buff that increased the chance you would not be slept by a skill and that it was a buff. The user then took the time to read and understand it, and they were immediately happy. They said that it was awesome and they love it, where as only one minute ago, they were utterly pissed off, and wanted to go rage and complain. Over something so small, that wasn't thoroughly looked into. i do the same with you and all the other users who complain about really anything.

 

The designs have logic and reason behind them. When I see someone who wants to lodge a complaint about them, i want to know why. Why is it that bothers you. Is it supposed to be that way. Are there counter measures you could be using to prevent it. Is it something you can avoid or over come with a different tact or play style. Are you sure what you think is going on, is really what's happening. Etc. 

 

Not only that, but you gotta look at it from all angles. 

does it make sense from a design concept perspective.

does it function properly

is it proportional to other similar skills and counter measures

can it be abused

is there a way to overcome / counter / subvert it, etc

 

i work very hard, much harder than i ever bother to post about. While yes it bothers me to have my motives and morals questioned by a few select people, i see the work I've done in game. I see dozens if not hundreds of players who enjoy the work i've helped with. be it small or big. it's there and brings me much more happiness then the few who assault and badger me with their miss placed hate and contempt. I'll never change those peoples perspectives. What i can do is make them argue, and expose themselves IF there's anything wrong with their arguments. It's worked for a long time, and I really hate doing it. But sometimes it is the only way with certain people who refuse to debate without insulting others. They feel debating is the same as arguing. A debate in my eyes is a way to exchange information in a questioning manner to expose flaws in data. The way I feel these more ruthless individuals take a debate, is a flat out argument with malice and ill intent. I wish it weren't that way mom, but it is sometimes. I do what I can, i'm only one person. i can only take so much miss placed hate and degradation before i say enough is enough, and defend myself. 

 

Hopefully you see a bit more about the side of things I'm actually on. i'm here, trying to improve the game. Make changes for the better, for the longevity of Rose, and to allow the people who have an opinion but never voice it to still make an impact. I try my best mom, sometimes it's just not enough for certain people. i hope you forgive any trespasses i've made on your opinions or thoughts of me, i never had ill intent when debating you. 

 

Fuer, I hate to say this, but your way of doing thing is making no sense. You did not trying to make people think critically or recheck their data. You are simply stating your claim against them. I am not sure this problem is caused by your lack of knowledge in this area of specialty, or it is simple be your nature. For example, when you said, "maybe your team isn't playing as a group, or that you've missed something", you wasn't trying to get people to really scrutinize their own data, but you were making a claim that they had not playing as a team, or they do not know how to play, unlike you. As the result, when you are saying the claim above, you are saying that you can do better than them, thus making them to ask you to prove it. If you cannot prove it, or if they can disprove your claim, you will be the one being belittled by them (as we did in your previous post). If you have a question of the people's playing styles, all you can do is asking, "Can you tell me a little bit about how you play?", or, "Have you tried.....[some suggestions]...........yet?"

 

The second problem, you have is your lack of security, aka your insecurity. Most of the time your insecurity begun with your real life. With time, it would entered your subsconcious, and became your second nature. Because of your insecurity, you are affraiding that people will not accept your idea/thought, thus making you attemp to boster your credibility by saying, "top 10", or "top 1", ect. Thing will not stop with that. It get worse when people reject your idea/though. When that happens, you will get mad and start fighting/arguing with others. As the loop continues, the whole thing will become toxic enough for the people to stop arguing with you all together and let you have the last words. However, you should not think that you have won because they let you do that. It is the opposite. They stop because they are no longer see the need to arguing with you. In other words, they are no long seeing you as the same level as theirs. If you still think you have won when that happen, do so, but don't expect people to treat you the same as before.

 

It is up to you to believe me, or not.
 

Edited by ChampPower, 19 March 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[Feuer]

Champ, I'm going to remove my response and send it to Mom in a PM, as it was entirely directed at her. My feelings for you or your opinion are null. You lost my interest when you felt the need to insult me~ 

[Bendersmom]

I understand what you are saying and I do really appreciate all that you do for the game Feuer.  I know from talking to people how hard you work on the game and that you give a lot of input.  I am not trying to give you a hard time.  But as you said you are posting things to make people think about what they are saying and check their facts.  I just posted to make you think about how you say things sometimes.  I thought it might help in the discussions.