50 replies to this topic

[NorthenBeggar]

I just think they're overpowered and make the game less entertaining and too easy. I mean, they make a number of equipment seem useless. It's sort of annoying when I got a cool staff drop and my happiness is ruined by the fact that the MATK is 20 lower than Eden Staff III. It also applies to other gears like boots (especially the boots), etc. I know they can't be upgraded, but still.

 

Most of the better equips are end-game equips, and honestly, I can't really afford them. I want to spend my money for some mid-game stuff too. Shopping is fun. Farming to buy something useful and nice is fun, but having to wait to reach lv 90++ before I can actually spend my hard-work money on something useful for 100m++ is ridiculous.

 

Nerf Eden Equips, and make mid-game items worthy to get. Pwease~ 

[Kadelia]

Eden equip are weak.

 

Upgrade your staff and it will have a lot more matk than the un-upgradable eden staff.

Edited by Jaye, 05 March 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[NorthenBeggar]

Eden equip are weak.

 

Upgrade your staff and it will have a lot more matk than the un-upgradable eden staff.

 

Well, that's just one thing. I'm talking about how Eden equips make other low or mid game gears seem useless. They may be weak, but they're still strong enough to make people able to solo so easily, making the game less challenging. People no longer party outside TI, because Eden equips have made them strong enough to solo monsters in their level range. They could have deleted the weapon dealer NPC and no one would even care, because the gears they sell are basically useless. It's fun to hunt, save money, and go shopping during the early phases of the game.

 

P.S. I didn't know why the thread was double-posted, but I've reported the other one. Dx

[Scott]

Eden Gear shouldn't be nerfed.

 

Old gear is a sign of the times, and a lot of it is out of date and just too frustrating to come across or purchase at a decent price. Eden Gear gives players good (But not great gear) for doing a few quests here and there.

 

They aren't designed to be the best in the world, but they are designed to give new or poorer players some semblance of independence from the totally skewed market price and low drop chances.

 

I can assure you, it's NOT Eden gear making people able to solo outside of TIs.

Edited by Scott, 05 March 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[Facekiller]

you can easily level to 99 and beyond ( for awhile) using just eden gears... things like sandles[1] hood[1] and other low gears dont drop all that low... part of the problem is leveling is soo fast that you cant keep up when it comes to gears vs level....

[monkeypuma]

Monster drops still have a place while leveling. My monk uses an upgraded Evil Bone Wand to boost his healing after my party gets chewed up. There's no Eden Group shield, so I had to kill goblins for a couple hours to give my Taekwon something better than the Guard you get at class change. And there are masks and other mid and low headgears you can shop for. If you want a backup weapon or a funny hat, there's plenty beyond what Eden gives you.

 

However, that just covers playing dress-up (which is important). As far as discouraging party play and stuff, I'd say, as a new player, having to use level 2 weapons and crummy armor while most of the server have max level characters to equip their alts would be more discouraging to playing at all. I'd certainly get fewer invites to random parties if people couldn't expect me to have decent gear from Eden Group. So, in a way, Eden gear makes partying smoother at low levels, not more difficult. Maybe you should bother people while they sit down if you want to party. Worst they can say is "no."

[NorthenBeggar]

They aren't designed to be the best in the world, but they are designed to give new or poorer players some semblance of independence from the totally skewed market price and low drop chances.

 

I agree. Giving players free equips for that reason is great. I'm just asking to nerf them a bit so that gears dropped from monsters don't become virtually useless. To be honest I'm too scared to upgrade them to make them better from Eden equips, because they're harder to get.

 

 

Maybe you should bother people while they sit down if you want to party. Worst they can say is "no."

 

I've tried that so many times. Almost all of them rejected my request. I can understand, though. Why bother having a party if you can solo without any problem?

[Kadelia]

I agree. Giving players free equips for that reason is great. I'm just asking to nerf them a bit so that gears dropped from monsters don't become virtually useless. To be honest I'm too scared to upgrade them to make them better from Eden equips, because they're harder to get.

 

 

 

There is a safe limit to every item. Why are you afraid of a safe upgrade...?

 

For example, Eden Staff III (which you get at 61+) is 170 matk (lvl 3 wep) and by level 90 you can give it +20% damage to a certain race and +3% matk. It also gives 4 INT.

 

With variance this is typically 178~241 MATK and +4 int VS the chosen race, more like 148~201 vs other races.

 

This is actually one of the best eden items. The ATk weapons don't even come close to useful like the MATK wands do.

 

A +4 Evil Bone Wand on the other hand is fairly useless by comparison; it is only 110~165 or so matk.

 

A good wand, say, +12 Thorn Staff of Darkness, would be 195~404 matk. Paired with a skull cap, 315~524 matk and -18% cast delay, -10% cast time, and 12% mdef piercing. This owns the ever living crap out of eden wand 3.

 

Even an evil bone wand can do a lot of matk if over-upgarded (unsafe upgrades) which is the real power of 'found' weapons. A +9 Evil Bone Wand is like 138~277 matk, which is actually better than an eden staff 3.

 

Also there are 'found' weapons that are better than eden wand out of the box, before you even upgrade them, like this one or this one or this one or this one and those aren't even considered 'good' weapons (though mental stick ain't bad for a sorcerer who doesn't have a +12 TSoD/skull cap combo).

 

I've tried that so many times. Almost all of them rejected my request. I can understand, though. Why bother having a party if you can solo without any problem?

 

That's silly. parties are only useful exp-wise after 100 at which point anyone wearing eden gear still is a failure nobody wants to party. Get acquainted with the game before picking at it.

Edited by Jaye, 05 March 2014 - 08:30 PM.

[monkeypuma]

A +4 Evil Bone Wand on the other hand is fairly useless by comparison; it is only 110~165 or so matk.

It's a lot more than the 0 MATK from Eden Mace III.

I'm just using it because it happened to drop off an Evil Druid while I was doing the Eden equpiment quest in Glast Heim. I guess the cash spent upgrading it could have gone to other things, but 25,000 zeny isn't a huge sum, even for me.

Edited by monkeypuma, 05 March 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[NorthenBeggar]

That's silly. parties are only useful exp-wise after 100 at which point anyone wearing eden gear still is a failure nobody wants to party. Get acquainted with the game before picking at it.

 

Dude, I'm talking about low-mid game. I think being above lv 100 and having such gears are considered end-game content. I thought it was clear already. I didn't even say it was the problem. Read the OP again. At least know what OP means before picking at it.

[Hireme]

Dude, I'm talking about low-mid game. I think being above lv 100 and having such gears are considered end-game content. I thought it was clear already. I didn't even say it was the problem. Read the OP again. At least know what OP means before picking at it.

 

 

Considering the required exp the mid range can be up to level 143 at  which point you have collected 2/3 of the exp you need for level 150.

 

At level 137 you have reached the "halfway there"-waypoint.

 

In my book: until level 100 its low-level, from 101 mid-level and highlevel starts around 140...

 

The problem is not the overpowered eden gear, its the outdated npc-sold gear. That should be brought up to specs with renewal mechanics.

Just look at the arc wand... its matk should be raised at least by 20.

 

But still eden weapons have no slots, can't be upgraded, and if you nerf those things, all you do is give "rich" players a new way to rip off newbies. The best "old style" weapons for a specific level drops seldom from a monster in that level range.

[Scott]

Dude, I'm talking about low-mid game. I think being above lv 100 and having such gears are considered end-game content. I thought it was clear already. I didn't even say it was the problem. Read the OP again. At least know what OP means before picking at it.

 

So. You're angry because low-mid (Which is actually low-low) gear from Eden is too good, because it "prevents parties" (Based on what? That no one wants to party your class?) and makes you scared to upgrade your junkgear?

 

I don't even bother with Eden Gear because the difference is so inconsequential for the short time that stuff is even remotely viable.

 

The real question here is why do you think the already very very fast levels from 1-99 need to be nerfed. Your reasons from the original post are pretty dirt poor, to be honest.

 

The oldest gear in the world from circa 2004's going to be useless. You need to get a grip with that one. Eden came along to make it possible to get nice gear for absolutely no expenditure short of playing the game rather relaxingly by comparison to good gear.

 

Get some real friends to play with you. You don't really need to party outside of TI's because everything is fairly easy to solo. If you have trouble getting parties in a TI, well, there's always a group of people looking for a party. Make one, add them all, they'll accept, and then hunt for a healer instead. 7-8 people in a party without a healer won't leave, because not being in a party is worse than being in a party without a healer inside a TI.

[thatfool]

i lvl to 99 with just elemental weapon and creamy clip

[Facekiller]

the biggest issue i have with eden gears is it teaches new players NOTHING about upgrading or carding... its just "here have some gears".... all those low level gears that are now obsolete due to eden gear4s are worth nothing now... meaning people dont even bother picking them up even to sell... next thing you know we have a flood of poor players because the stuff they could be selling (hoods[1], sandals[1] jackets[1]) things that would have made you at least some zeny back before eden gears came around.... it hurts the lower end of the economy and encourages begging... between the free gears and easy fast leveling to 99 you have a bunch of frustrated players who never made really any zeny trying to figure out how to get all the high end gears they "need" to get invited to parties or compete... the free gears you get from eden should have been the same gears you could have bought from a NPC shop but free...

[Kadelia]

kro should just buff the old gears so the npc stuff is useful. Mostly 2 and 3 slot weapons need an atk boost and wands need matk boosts.

Edited by Jaye, 06 March 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Dirsion]

Dare i ask what class the OP is playing?

[Trixdee]

 

 

 

IMO there's nothing wrong with the Eden gears and newer players have a hard enough time getting started in this game.

 

Edited by Trixdee, 06 March 2014 - 07:50 PM.

[NorthenBeggar]

So. You're angry because low-mid (Which is actually low-low) gear from Eden is too good, because it "prevents parties" (Based on what? That no one wants to party your class?) and makes you scared to upgrade your junkgear?

 

I don't even bother with Eden Gear because the difference is so inconsequential for the short time that stuff is even remotely viable.

 

The real question here is why do you think the already very very fast levels from 1-99 need to be nerfed. Your reasons from the original post are pretty dirt poor, to be honest.

 

The oldest gear in the world from circa 2004's going to be useless. You need to get a grip with that one. Eden came along to make it possible to get nice gear for absolutely no expenditure short of playing the game rather relaxingly by comparison to good gear.

 

Get some real friends to play with you. You don't really need to party outside of TI's because everything is fairly easy to solo. If you have trouble getting parties in a TI, well, there's always a group of people looking for a party. Make one, add them all, they'll accept, and then hunt for a healer instead. 7-8 people in a party without a healer won't leave, because not being in a party is worse than being in a party without a healer inside a TI.

 

lol wut?

 

 

I'm not angry or anything. I'm just sharing a thought. After all, the title of the thread is, "Nerf Eden Equips?", not "Nerf Eden Equips!" I'm just asking, not commanding. If people are already convenient with it, then okay. No need to accuse me for being angry.

 

It's not that no one wants me in a party. Most parties I've been in liked me, in fact. I feel like the gameplay is more linear and monotone than what it used to be back then. That's the problem. I'm talking about the low-mid game, of course. We just grind, do Eden quests, grind, do Eden quests, repeat, and you will reach 99 without even realizing it (metaphorically speaking). There's no joy of getting a rare drop from monsters in the mid-game, because they're useless. We've got the weightless Eden equips, which are much better. Besides, it's kinda boring to see a bunch of people walking around with the same hat. >.>

 

erry1 b usin' eden

 

Yes, solo-ing outside TI is really easy. I've said that a few times before.

 

the biggest issue i have with eden gears is it teaches new players NOTHING about upgrading or carding... its just "here have some gears".... all those low level gears that are now obsolete due to eden gear4s are worth nothing now... meaning people dont even bother picking them up even to sell... next thing you know we have a flood of poor players because the stuff they could be selling (hoods[1], sandals[1] jackets[1]) things that would have made you at least some zeny back before eden gears came around.... it hurts the lower end of the economy and encourages begging... between the free gears and easy fast leveling to 99 you have a bunch of frustrated players who never made really any zeny trying to figure out how to get all the high end gears they "need" to get invited to parties or compete... the free gears you get from eden should have been the same gears you could have bought from a NPC shop but free...

 

 

I agree.

 

Eden gears should just be a standard set for players, so people will still be able to hunt even though they're poor, but they must not better than normal equips (equips with weight and actual value), because really, they render other equips useless.

 

Dare i ask what class the OP is playing?

 

Uh, I have three characters at the moment, but the discussion isn't only about a particular class. I just had a conversation with a guildsmate about gears for a Soul Linker not long before I made this thread. I asked him about a particular set of equips, and after giving me the details, he ended it with, "Well, Eden Boots give a much better regen rate, though."

 

 

kro should just buff the old gears so the npc stuff is useful. Mostly 2 and 3 slot weapons need an atk boost and wands need matk boosts.

 

Or this. All I want is for normal mid-level gears to have value.

[spikexp]

as for me, the underrated gears such as hood[1], sandals[1], jacket[1], or sh1ts like that will go to my storage

if i ever got bored because leveling is damn slow, i'll upgrade and card them, create a new char and goof off

can a lowbie novice use eden boots 4? use zombie-carded +4 sandal instead.

[belld1711]

.... all those low level gears that are now obsolete due to eden gear4s are worth nothing now... meaning people dont even bother picking them up even to sell...

 

xD Tell that to my wife. When she first started playing, she bought non-slotted sunglasses from a vendor for 100k, if I remember correctly. She was kind of excited because they made her then-mage look better. I pointed out that she could have gotten those same glasses for 5k from an NPC. She was a little depressed at being "used" for a short while, but not for long. She then started doing the same thing. She'll buy stuff from NPC shops for 5k, 50k, whatever, and mark up the price. And people actually BUY it! I honestly don't know why. Maybe they don't even KNOW about the armor/weapon dealers. Maybe they see sunglasses and think "I can slot those!" and snatch them up. Maybe it's a high-leveled player seeing the gear and buying it. I saw someone saying on here once that they did that occasionally, to help out newbies. idk. Whatever the reason, it's none of my business. My wife makes money off that gear either way.

 

I do agree though that the NPC shop gears need to gain some boosts so they're no longer obsolete. I posted a comment saying so a couple months ago, I believe. Eden Gear, though doesn't need to be nerfed. And it's true that newer players don't learn anything about slotting and enchanting from Eden, but that's what the Academy/Izlude is for. As a novice, if you actually WALK out of the academy instead of teleporting, you can run into the upgrade NPCs and the enchanting cats. So that's already covered.

 

As for the OP, the reason why low-mid level players (Going by Classic's standards, low being lvl 1-40 or so, and mid being 50-70) isn't because of any kind of gear. IMO, it's the bots. Outside TI, you go to a dungeon or a map and ask people if they want to party, you get ignored most of the time, simply because your asking a bot. People get tired of that, so they adapt and start running solo. At least half the time, it's the ONLY way to level. Look at the second floor of Payon cave! 50 characters in there, maybe THREE players. Rest are bots, and everyone knows it. So why ask for a party?

[Aratiina]

as for me, the underrated gears such as hood[1], sandals[1], jacket[1], or sh1ts like that will go to my storage

 

Can those be put into Eater after they're upgraded?

I was wondering because my manteaus sell almost right away when I put them in....

[NorthenBeggar]

xD Tell that to my wife. When she first started playing, she bought non-slotted sunglasses from a vendor for 100k, if I remember correctly. She was kind of excited because they made her then-mage look better. I pointed out that she could have gotten those same glasses for 5k from an NPC. She was a little depressed at being "used" for a short while, but not for long. She then started doing the same thing. She'll buy stuff from NPC shops for 5k, 50k, whatever, and mark up the price. And people actually BUY it! I honestly don't know why. Maybe they don't even KNOW about the armor/weapon dealers. Maybe they see sunglasses and think "I can slot those!" and snatch them up. Maybe it's a high-leveled player seeing the gear and buying it. I saw someone saying on here once that they did that occasionally, to help out newbies. idk. Whatever the reason, it's none of my business. My wife makes money off that gear either way.

 

I do agree though that the NPC shop gears need to gain some boosts so they're no longer obsolete. I posted a comment saying so a couple months ago, I believe. Eden Gear, though doesn't need to be nerfed. And it's true that newer players don't learn anything about slotting and enchanting from Eden, but that's what the Academy/Izlude is for. As a novice, if you actually WALK out of the academy instead of teleporting, you can run into the upgrade NPCs and the enchanting cats. So that's already covered.

 

As for the OP, the reason why low-mid level players (Going by Classic's standards, low being lvl 1-40 or so, and mid being 50-70) isn't because of any kind of gear. IMO, it's the bots. Outside TI, you go to a dungeon or a map and ask people if they want to party, you get ignored most of the time, simply because your asking a bot. People get tired of that, so they adapt and start running solo. At least half the time, it's the ONLY way to level. Look at the second floor of Payon cave! 50 characters in there, maybe THREE players. Rest are bots, and everyone knows it. So why ask for a party?

 

Yeah. I once saw someone selling a non-slotted sunglasses for 200k in Payon, and I was like, "Is this guy serious?"

 

I guess so. It's the bots, but I still think that Eden equips make the game kinda too easy. Perhaps it's just me. My problem is that many mid-level gears become useless because of Eden equips, making farming less fun because you can't buy anything charming without an awful lot of zeny you can't get in mid-game. As long as it gets... fixed (?), I'm fine with it.

 

Again, Eden equips should just be a standard equip set which are given for free so people still can play and buy normal equips which are supposed to be better.

[Kadelia]

Yeah. I once saw someone selling a non-slotted sunglasses for 200k in Payon, and I was like, "Is this guy serious?"

 

I guess so. It's the bots, but I still think that Eden equips make the game kinda too easy. Perhaps it's just me. My problem is that many mid-level gears become useless because of Eden equips, making farming less fun because you can't buy anything charming without an awful lot of zeny you can't get in mid-game. As long as it gets... fixed (?), I'm fine with it.

 

Again, Eden equips should just be a standard equip set which are given for free so people still can play and buy normal equips which are supposed to be better.

 

Eden gears make the LOW END/EARLY game easy, that's it. And they aren't even that good. Inf act, I have gear so good with such low level requirement, that when I make new characters, I use it over eden gear because its several times better. If any of your gears are obsoleted by eden equips, I assure you, they are not "mid-level" gears.

 

I'll give you an example. I'll use shoe slot.

 

Useless Gear: Sandals[1] (Does nothing except tiny def)

Trashy Gear: Eden Boots I ~ IV (small to decent def, maybe a few stats if you enchant, weak to useless hp regen effect)

Barely Adequate Gear: +4 Fledged Sandals/Shoes/Boots [1] (+8% hp/sp, small def)

Adequate Gear: +6 Vidar's Boots (+9% hp/sp, adequate DEF)

Decent Gear: +9 Superior Shoes/Boots [1] (+2 str, +10% HP/SP, good def)

Good Gear: Variant Shoes (+20% HP/SP, low def)

Great Gear: +9 Superior Diabolous Boots (+2 str, +10% HP/SP, +1500 HP, high def)

Awesome Gear: +9 Superior Enhanced Variant Shoes [1] (+22% HP/SP, lots of DEF)

 

Look how low on the list eden gear is in my example. That's low-low end. Not mid tier. Also as you can see, the only thing worse than it is made better with a card.

 

Eden Armor is only a little better than a "mantle of champion" which is a low end gear. The manteau is inferior to anything carded with raydric/whisper/etc. The hat is worthless. The only eden gear worth mentioning really, is the eden wand 3.

Edited by Jaye, 07 March 2014 - 06:04 PM.

[spikexp]

Can those be put into Eater after they're upgraded?
I was wondering because my manteaus sell almost right away when I put them in....

 
never got concerned about this, but afaik, every slotted gear that ain't sold by the npc can be eaten. not sure.

[monkeypuma]

Excuse my being new, but what is this Eater and should I be feeding it?

 

Also, thought of another thing Eden doesn't give: one-handed axes. If you want your merchant to hit like the wind, you gotta provide your own axe.