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#26 spikexp

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:11 AM

Excuse my being new, but what is this Eater and should I be feeding it?


eat gear, just like hammer, comes to iro periodically. he munches your unused +7 gears and poops +7 certs out of the gear. can't say anything about the detail cuz i never had any +7s
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#27 belld1711

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:37 AM


I'll give you an example. I'll use shoe slot.

 

Useless Gear: Sandals[1] (Does nothing except tiny def)

Trashy Gear: Eden Boots I ~ IV (small to decent def, maybe a few stats if you enchant, weak to useless hp regen effect)

Barely Adequate Gear: +4 Fledged Sandals/Shoes/Boots [1] (+8% hp/sp, small def)

Adequate Gear: +6 Vidar's Boots (+9% hp/sp, adequate DEF)

Decent Gear: +9 Superior Shoes/Boots [1] (+2 str, +10% HP/SP, good def)

Good Gear: Variant Shoes (+20% HP/SP, low def)

Great Gear: +9 Superior Diabolous Boots (+2 str, +10% HP/SP, +1500 HP, high def)

Awesome Gear: +9 Superior Enhanced Variant Shoes [1] (+22% HP/SP, lots of DEF)

Variant shoes-35 mil.

+9 Diabolus boots-Max vend amount, firelock soldier card-29mil. (not including the cost of over-upgrading)

verit card-6 mil

 

The Only thing I see here that is cost effective for a newbie/mid-leveled player is the Eden group Boots and the sandals. You have to keep in mind that newer players don't have access to that kind of money. Unless their first choice is to make a merchant, and they took a couple weeks to learn the economy and such, then their focus is to level, selling all monster drops to NPCs. They're going to make a max of 1 mil that way. By the time they run into trouble, needing something to compensate for low SP for example, THAT'S when they're going to check the forums, the out-dated irowiki and the some times incorrect info on RMS. Hell, with all my characters, and knowing about this stuff, I still only have 2 pieces of equipment I've upgraded to max safe limit. So how can you expect someone who's been playing a week, or maybe a month to KNOW how to safely over-upgrade their equipment, let alone gather the elu and ori/HDs without buying them?


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#28 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:21 AM

Variant shoes-35 mil.

+9 Diabolus boots-Max vend amount, firelock soldier card-29mil. (not including the cost of over-upgrading)

verit card-6 mil

 

The Only thing I see here that is cost effective for a newbie/mid-leveled player is the Eden group Boots and the sandals. You have to keep in mind that newer players don't have access to that kind of money. Unless their first choice is to make a merchant, and they took a couple weeks to learn the economy and such, then their focus is to level, selling all monster drops to NPCs. They're going to make a max of 1 mil that way. By the time they run into trouble, needing something to compensate for low SP for example, THAT'S when they're going to check the forums, the out-dated irowiki and the some times incorrect info on RMS. Hell, with all my characters, and knowing about this stuff, I still only have 2 pieces of equipment I've upgraded to max safe limit. So how can you expect someone who's been playing a week, or maybe a month to KNOW how to safely over-upgrade their equipment, let alone gather the elu and ori/HDs without buying them?

 

The only problem I see here is you think 35m is a lot of money.

 

And that you seem to have forgotten (maybe you hit your head or something? I hope you're ok) that the point of eden gear is to give you a crutch while you're a newbie until you can afford the myriad of good gear that is better than eden-- that takes work to obtain. And that the myth (stupidity?) I was dispelling is eden gear obsoletes work/gear beyond it.


Edited by Jaye, 08 March 2014 - 10:24 AM.

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#29 Gabohollow

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:15 PM

i use those crappy equips everytime i level up a new char 

i mean i feel like a waste of time to have to do quest everytime i create a char to get a equip that i gonna use actually only a few days(maybe a week) so i buy equipment of low level (not even refined) and carde well (roda frog,sohee,harpy, punk, pupa even raydric, remover, earth/sky deleter) i know you have to spend a litle of money BUT ITS JUST ONCE!!!

now when the equipt where released i used some in some new chars and do its work pretty pretty well. 

so my point its the equipment are not trash at all the can have a lot of uses like level up multiple chars in diferents accounts(what i do) or test something(i mean you can put a high value card and look how its works and where you finish test it just uncard with a desocketing book). But in general the eden are great for new new players yeah they dont teach you anything of upgrading or carding but if you are very new(and where you use this equipments) you dont have the time and the zenny to thing about this what really matter in the begining its level up xD 


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#30 spikexp

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:54 PM

The only problem I see here is you think 35m is a lot of money.
 
And that you seem to have forgotten (maybe you hit your head or something? I hope you're ok) that the point of eden gear is to give you a crutch while you're a newbie until you can afford the myriad of good gear that is better than eden-- that takes work to obtain. And that the myth (stupidity?) I was dispelling is eden gear obsoletes work/gear beyond it.


because he makes 1m a week, that's not a problem. i also see 35m as quite a lot to spend. you can actually afford something worth mils after you've been through TIs, so maybe he's on some level 70 or under that

or maybe TI sucks and isn't worth doing, just like how i can't go to mid TI cuz nobody wants me

and yeah, eden is GREAT economically until you have a few mils to start bothering with upgrades and cards
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#31 monkeypuma

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:17 PM

eat gear, just like hammer, comes to iro periodically. he munches your unused +7 gears and poops +7 certs out of the gear. can't say anything about the detail cuz i never had any +7s

 

Thank you.

The only problem I see here is you think 35m is a lot of money.

 

35 million actually is a lot of money when you're making your first character.


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#32 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:03 PM

Thank you.

 

35 million actually is a lot of money when you're making your first character.

 

If you think you're supposed to replace eden gear with 35m worth of equips as a new character you can't read.


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#33 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:07 PM

The only problem I see here is you think 35m is a lot of money.

 

Well, sorry for being poor, but I think 35m is a lot of money. You can arrest me now.

 

And that you seem to have forgotten (maybe you hit your head or something? I hope you're ok) that the point of eden gear is to give you a crutch while you're a newbie until you can afford the myriad of good gear that is better than eden-- that takes work to obtain. And that the myth (stupidity?) I was dispelling is eden gear obsoletes work/gear beyond it.

 

This is about how Eden gears obsoletes other gears at its level, not beyond or below it.


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#34 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:16 PM

This is about how Eden gears obsoletes other gears at its level, not beyond or below it.

 

0749852143.gif


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#35 belld1711

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:27 PM

The only problem I see here is you think 35m is a lot of money.

 

And that you seem to have forgotten (maybe you hit your head or something? I hope you're ok) that the point of eden gear is to give you a crutch while you're a newbie until you can afford the myriad of good gear that is better than eden-- that takes work to obtain. And that the myth (stupidity?) I was dispelling is eden gear obsoletes work/gear beyond it.

 

Maybe your the one who hit your head. I was talking about NEW players. A new player, NOT a new CHARACTER starts out with 0z. S/He has to make that 35mil. You can see several discussions, especially after mRO shut down, where people were asking why they got banned, or more recently, how newer players are posting asking which class is the "best" and about builds for those classes. If they don't know botting/RMT is illegal, and if they're asking about classes and builds, obviously, they don't know about irowiki, which means they also probably don't know about ragial, game economy, mechanics, etc. I mean, honestly, how many times have you been asked where a person should level? They don't know they can just press the tab button on the map to see what level each map's monsters are.

 

There's a rather large gap between the Eden gears and what you consider "Barely Adequate Gear." What's the cost of the boots from the NPC shops? 18k? Then the Eden Gear: Free. Next, your "Barely Adequate" footgear: Probably 7-10mil today. That's a HUGE jump for something that's not even deemed "worthy."
 

Another thing to think about, newer players probably spend a good amount of time trying to figure out where they fit in. So they're not going to try to check the forums, RMS, irowiki, or Ragial. They're going to level the best they can, and try to some how get into a guild with a lot of glowing people. That means leveling. The money can come later. But after a while of solo grinding, they usually hit a leveling wall, stuck between dying a lot, spending too much on whites, and/or not being able to find parties, let alone a place TO level properly. I remember when I started, I wanted to be up there in the ranks of a large, well maintained guild.  I'll be honest and say I still do in a way, but having to wait until I'm level 135 to meet most of the guilds' level requirements is a pain and I don't care much for that. So I made my own guild. Newer players probably don't even know how to do that.

 

Let's put things into perspective. The average player who knows the mechanics of the game and just about everything there is to know has been playing for at least 4 or 5 years. Some of you guys have been playing since beta. That's more than TEN years experience with the game from the beginning, through all the introductions of the added classes, all the added dungeons, maps, monsters, bosses, events, items, skills and the mechanics of the game, before and after renewal was introduced. Y'all know how the modifiers are applied when skills are used in combination with certain gear, cards, elements, etc. And your expecting a newbie to KNOW that +4 Fledged Sandals/Shoes/Boots are slightly better than Eden Gear right when they start, or after maybe a month after they started? You really hit your head hard, my friend. They're too busy wondering why they keep missing a lot when trying to hit a poporing, and trying to survive against a Familiar attack.

 

Again, I think the Eden Group equipment is fine with how it is. I just think that the NPC gear should get a boost to bridge the gap between the "Eden Crap" to the Good gear. Maybe up the price just a touch, but nothing really drastic.

 

But I want to prove my point about how newbies are busy trying to figure out where they fit in. Like I've said, I made a guild. It's a small friendly guild that's starting to thrive a little (mainly because my guild has no level requirements, and I mostly recruit friendly newbies who're just looking for friends and/or help understanding the game.) And I personally have been playing for about 7 months now. If ANYONE can name a single one of my 9 non-novice characters, or the name of my guild, I'll hand over 10mil. I bet NO ONE can. No one has even asked. No one cares! So how do you think a newbie feels even after a couple months of grinding solo?


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#36 spikexp

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:35 AM

jaye is only trying to say that there are A BUNCH of better alternatives for eden gears

imho, there's no point on nerfing eden gears cuz they're already weak, and belld said so. and if OP think 'mid-game' gears aren't worthy, jaye said that even a fledged boots is better than eden's (welp, why should i waste for it anyways if you can level just fine using the free one)

i get what OP said, but if you like shopping rather than saving that much, you'll have a hard time to make a mere 35m to spend for a much better gears later
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#37 spikexp

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:44 AM

dang, double posted

Edited by spikexp, 09 March 2014 - 02:44 AM.

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#38 Kadelia

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:58 AM

There's a rather large gap between the Eden gears and what you consider "Barely Adequate Gear." What's the cost of the boots from the NPC shops? 18k? Then the Eden Gear: Free. Next, your "Barely Adequate" footgear: Probably 7-10mil today. That's a HUGE jump for something that's not even deemed "worthy."

 

TL;DR but it sounds like you might want to make a thread in your class forum "how do I make money"? After you make a couple mil you don't have to apologize here, you can do it in PM if you want.
 

your expecting a newbie to KNOW that +4 Fledged Sandals/Shoes/Boots are slightly better than Eden Gear right when they start, or after maybe a month after they started?

 

I seriously hope you aren't this dumb. Fledged sandals is a world better than eden boots, can be equipped sooner, and should be obvious to anyone with an IQ over 100 that its better after looking at your first verit card.

 

Your entire post is filled with nonsense/fallacies like this, which is why I skimmed it and didn't bother reading the whole thing. You don't make an ounce of sense, or even one good point from what I have seen.The only time you sound remotely 'right' si when you are halfway agreeing with me.

v

 

Again, I think the Eden Group equipment is fine with how it is.

 


Edited by Jaye, 09 March 2014 - 09:02 AM.

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#39 belld1711

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:04 AM

I have money. I'm not rich by any means, but I can get things as I need them. Look at my sig for an example. So you can take that condescending attitude somewhere else when someone is just trying to make a valid point in a discussion, plzkthxbie

 

Edit due to Jaye's edit-If you actually read my post, you'd realize that I'm not speaking for myself. I'm speaking for players that just joined. People who have played RO a total of at most 1 or 2 months. Not someone like me who's had experience with RO back when it was in beta before it went P2P. No one can learn everything about this game in two months. Why do you think there are so many newbie guides? Why do you think Tofu had to post a thread telling people HOW to make decent money? Anyway, you just want to spout off-hand insults and gripe about things you can't comprehend even after reading it for yourself, so I'm done with you.

 

jaye is only trying to say that there are A BUNCH of better alternatives for eden gears

imho, there's no point on nerfing eden gears cuz they're already weak, and belld said so. and if OP think 'mid-game' gears aren't worthy, jaye said that even a fledged boots is better than eden's (welp, why should i waste for it anyways if you can level just fine using the free one)

i get what OP said, but if you like shopping rather than saving that much, you'll have a hard time to make a mere 35m to spend for a much better gears later

 

I understand that, but the problem is that there's a HUGE gap between the Eden Gear and the gear people should strive for for End Game. IMO, the better, temporary alternatives are out of reach for newer players to hunt for. Before renewal came along (which means before Eden was put in) if you wanted a knife, you killed porings... a level 1 weapon from a level 1 monster. Disguise, a level 55 monster dropped a slotted muffler, and an argiope, a level 41 monster dropped slotted boots. When renewal came, the mechanics of the game changed. As a result, the monsters got buffed as well. Yeah, the poring that drops the level 1 knife is still a level 1 monster, but the disguise went from level 55 to 103. The argiope went from level 41 to 75. This puts even the most obsolete slotted gear that you can get from the NPCs well out of range of the newbie, especially if they don't even know about the Eden Group. As I've been repeatedly been saying, Eden Gear is decent. I still use 75% of the gear across all 9 of my characters. But there should be better alternatives, especially in the NPC shops than something that sells for 35mil from other players until they can afford that 35mil. Or better, 1 bil.


Edited by belld1711, 09 March 2014 - 09:19 AM.

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#40 Kadelia

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:20 AM

I have money. I'm not rich by any means, but I can get things as I need them. Look at my sig for an example. So you can take that condescending attitude somewhere else when someone is just trying to make a valid point in a discussion, plzkthxbie

 

You aren't making a valid point. My experience with this game is clearly leagues ahead of yours. And instead of recognizing that and taking good advice, you blow back. because you're either prideful or not very keen. Neither of which is helping you.

 

I understand that, but the problem is that there's a HUGE gap between the Eden Gear and the gear people should strive for for End Game. IMO, the better, temporary alternatives are out of reach for newer players to hunt for. Before renewal came along (which means before Eden was put in) if you wanted a knife, you killed porings... a level 1 weapon from a level 1 monster. Disguise, a level 55 monster dropped a slotted muffler, and an argiope, a level 41 monster dropped slotted boots. When renewal came, the mechanics of the game changed. As a result, the monsters got buffed as well. Yeah, the poring that drops the level 1 knife is still a level 1 monster, but the disguise went from level 55 to 103. The argiope went from level 41 to 75. This puts even the most obsolete slotted gear that you can get from the NPCs well out of range of the newbie, especially if they don't even know about the Eden Group. As I've been repeatedly been saying, Eden Gear is decent. I still use 75% of the gear across all 9 of my characters. But there should be better alternatives, especially in the NPC shops than something that sells for 35mil from other players until they can afford that 35mil. Or better, 1 bil.

 

Your memory of the game is wrong. First nobody wanted a Knife. It would have been a Main Gauche [4], but that's splitting hairs. Though a good point to mention is you complain about gears on the same tier obsoleting each other now as if it wasn't always that way--- main gauche obsoleted knife in every way. In fact a main gauche[3] from NPC would even obsolete the knife[4] a poring dropped.

 

Second, level 1 characters didn't find a use for Main Gauche[4]. Level 80+ characters did. When they put 4 cards into it. Which costs several million zeny or a month of card hunting. It became an end-game item from a level 1 monster. It was a bad system and you don't even remember it right, and you're advocating going back to it. That is the crux of your miscomprehension. Boots[1] was always an endgame item back in the timeframe you are talking about, it was never meant to be used by a newbie. Again, you are remembering wrong. People used useless NPC gears or none, until they could afford the 7m+ for a slotted/carded shoe. ......... JUST LIKE NOW.  Oh wait, now they get to use a crappy eden gear until they can afford that 7m shoe. Wow, that's better. What are you arguing for again?


Edited by Jaye, 09 March 2014 - 09:32 AM.

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#41 spikexp

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:58 PM

i can't believe there's 2 people here arguing over an agreement, you guys ok? too much tl;dr but from what i comprehend both of your posts only came into ONE, SAME conclusion

this thread should get even funnier this way tho
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#42 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:25 PM

Expectation:

 

"Nerf eden gears?"

 

"No."

 

"Okay."

 

Reality:

 

*looks around*

 

jaye is only trying to say that there are A BUNCH of better alternatives for eden gears

imho, there's no point on nerfing eden gears cuz they're already weak, and belld said so. and if OP think 'mid-game' gears aren't worthy, jaye said that even a fledged boots is better than eden's (welp, why should i waste for it anyways if you can level just fine using the free one)

i get what OP said, but if you like shopping rather than saving that much, you'll have a hard time to make a mere 35m to spend for a much better gears later

 

Yeah, they're weak indeed. I think I've said I've agreed to that a few posts ago.

 

I like enjoying the game earlier, like spending my money early, PVP early, etc. It's just a matter of preference. It's just like there are people who enjoy the game by role playing, and there are people who enjoy the game by constantly grinding up to lv 150 as fast as they can.


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#43 spikexp

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:58 PM

Expectation:
 
"Nerf eden gears?"
 
"No."
 
"Okay."
 
Reality:
 
*looks around*


I KNOW, RIGHT
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#44 belld1711

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:52 PM

i can't believe there's 2 people here arguing over an agreement, you guys ok? too much tl;dr but from what i comprehend both of your posts only came into ONE, SAME conclusion

this thread should get even funnier this way tho

 

Actually, your right. I just now noticed where she(?) said that she didn't expect newbies to drop 35mil. Uhm, that was part of my point. O_o But instead of restating the fact that she wasn't talking about newbies, she decided to start throwing insults. And I saw where she stated in her latest post something about her experience in the game, like that's supposed to impress me or something. :yawn: That's all I really noticed though.

 

But the "arguing" was only one-way. I wasn't arguing. I was trying to make my point clear, which until now, I didn't know she was agreeing with. I work long hours on the weekends, and so I'm constantly tired. So when I type stuff out in a discussion, as you can tell, it turns long and drawn out. My thoughts jump constantly, so it may have seemed like I was upset, but I wasn't. Just trying to make a point. :p_sick:  A point she seemed to agree with, but wouldn't validate it with a simple "I agree"


Edited by belld1711, 09 March 2014 - 11:00 PM.

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#45 Dirsion

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:43 AM

Excuse my being new, but what is this Eater and should I be feeding it?

 

Also, thought of another thing Eden doesn't give: one-handed axes. If you want your merchant to hit like the wind, you gotta provide your own axe.

 

"Come put your face on my axe" I'll leave you with that quote assuming i remembered it right lol


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#46 Kadelia

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:04 AM

Actually, your right. I just now noticed where she(?) said that she didn't expect newbies to drop 35mil. Uhm, that was part of my point. O_o But instead of restating the fact that she wasn't talking about newbies, she decided to start throwing insults. And I saw where she stated in her latest post something about her experience in the game, like that's supposed to impress me or something. :yawn: That's all I really noticed though.

 

But the "arguing" was only one-way. I wasn't arguing. I was trying to make my point clear, which until now, I didn't know she was agreeing with. I work long hours on the weekends, and so I'm constantly tired. So when I type stuff out in a discussion, as you can tell, it turns long and drawn out. My thoughts jump constantly, so it may have seemed like I was upset, but I wasn't. Just trying to make a point. :p_sick:  A point she seemed to agree with, but wouldn't validate it with a simple "I agree"

 

Nowhere anywhere in the thread did people suggest newbies should buy end game gears. In fact, that doesn't even make sense, since the argument in defense of eden gears is that eden gears should be the crutch while you progress into mid game and can afford such gears. How you jumped to that conclusion is actually mind boggling.

 

If you had read the whole discussion, you'd know the gripe against eden gears is that it doesn't give people things to hunt/work for, because they are "too good", making early drops not worth using, which was thoroughly debunked.

 

You came in and tried to argue against a subject nobody made. Read better next time. Its not worth arguing if you don't have a solid ideal to defend.


Edited by Jaye, 10 March 2014 - 06:14 AM.

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#47 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:14 AM

Actually, your right. I just now noticed where she(?) said that she didn't expect newbies to drop 35mil. Uhm, that was part of my point. O_o But instead of restating the fact that she wasn't talking about newbies, she decided to start throwing insults. And I saw where she stated in her latest post something about her experience in the game, like that's supposed to impress me or something. :yawn: That's all I really noticed though.

 

That happens pretty often, so it's not a big deal. Many people actually like to do that to make them look better. Just give them a nod.


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#48 belld1711

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:14 AM

That happens pretty often, so it's not a big deal. Many people actually like to do that to make them look better. Just give them a nod.

 

I'll try to remember that. Someone once said, "Don't argue with a moron. First they drag you to their level, then beat you with experience." And I did just that. Ugh!


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#49 Kadelia

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:24 AM

Yeah sometimes I tell my professors and supervisors I am right on a subject I know nothing about and when they wave their experience, diplomas, and certifications at me I laugh because I know they are just trying to brag, notg show me I am outside my expertise.

oh wait, I don't. That would be you.
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#50 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

Yeah sometimes I tell my professors and supervisors I am right on a subject I know nothing about and when they wave their experience, diplomas, and certifications at me I laugh because I know they are just trying to brag, notg show me I am outside my expertise.

oh wait, I don't. That would be you.

 

Of course,

 

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