35 replies to this topic

[Hikusaak]

Also,don't bother taking just Level 1 Marsh of Abyss.Take that out and max that Freezing Spell instead.

[Hardc0re]

Leave Ice wall lv 1. You don't need it higher and ice wall is disabled in woe

Frost diver lv 10. I prefer casting SG level 1 Frost Nova or Jack Frost to freeze my opponent

Leave stone curse level 1. You already have sienna which is aoe stone curse and also better chance

Don't get stave crasher if you're not even taking gravitation field

JT lv 10. Chain Lightning is far better than Jupitel Thunder

Storm Gust lv 1. Is good at crowd control but you may want to take lv 10 so you can release lv 10 storm gust instead lv 1

 

Tetra Vortex is main warlock skill to kill in pvp and woe however you can use hard cast amp'ed comet and release twice with that build. Depends on your gear you can wipe entire guild (except rk/rg) with 3 comets

 

-About Ice Wall, doest it work in regular PvP? (not WoE)

-If I take out comet off my build then I can put Jack Frost instead, it's better yes

-I was thinking about using both at the same time. Sienna a group of players and then Stone Curse another person somewhere else

-I took Stave Crasher because it's only one point and people told me it can interrupt casts, it is not true?

-Again, didn't took Chain Lightning because of Comet Build, but I also heard some complaints about Chain Lightning making you stop each time it hits, thus making your mobility suffer in PvP. Is that true?

- I took Storm Gust lvl 1 only for the freezing status and I had some points to spare

 

My main grip about Tetra Vortex is that it greatly nerfs the CC potential of the Warlock, since you can't max out Sienna and White Imprison, wich are the main reasons I want to play a Warlock, control a lot of people while killing another, in a 1vX type of PvP.
 

[raining]

If you want to CC, PvP isn't the place for it. In PvP, it's a "whoever clicks first is the winner" because there is no reduction in damage like in BG/KvM/WoE. As a warlock, you'd hit an average of 25k HP with 100 total VIT and a HP increase potion with a WoE set on, which is probably the best chance for reduction, and yet you'll get one shotted by GoH (if you don't own a GR/DR), Rapid Throw, RCS, etc. which wouldn't happen in a environment with the reduction element present. This is why people are suggesting that you go for an offensive build like TV and dumping the useless CC skills (at least in PvP) in favour for killing skills.

 

And answers to your questions,

-Ice Wall works in PvP, some players like to put those around themselves to make it harder to target themselves.

-Jack Frost at max level only gives a larger radius + longer cast time and the damage increase is negliable, you'll have better luck with level 1 of Jack Frost and even then it's quite useless (unless you want to piss off everyone in PvP)

-Stone Curse has a short range, Sienna has a long range, you're a caster, figure it out.

-Chain Lightning will yes, suffer your mobility in PvP due to getting stuck and unstuck per hit, but the pos lag it generates can be abused to screw around with the position that you look like you're in on the other screen. Also, Chain Lightning is usually used to kill a frozen target so the bounce usually doesn't matter because if you didn't kill them in that one spike, they can just pot their way through it.

 

Again, if the main purpose of your warlock is for the CCing potential, PvP is not the place for it, any CC will benefit more so in a team situation than in a single situation, 1vX does not happen with a warlock in PvP with CCing unless the other players are bad.

 

1vX = gear up with fallen bishop, overupgraded KvM staff, FAW, RWC pendants w/ scaraba cards, +12 pom, bryn, get buffs, bring an alt stringer and alt warlock in party (for the 100% damage regardless of radius), release 2x amped comet with enough aspd to use in succession, use CL to kill off any stragglers using DR/GR, bwing because everyone is boringly dead.

Edited by raining, 12 March 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Hardc0re]

Well, maybe this game isn't for me then...

A PvP game where the winner is whoever clicks a skill first is really stupid IMO, no skill at all involved...

 

Well, anyways, thank you very much for the input, maybe I should look for another game.

[Mulder1]

Well, maybe this game isn't for me then...

A PvP game where the winner is whoever clicks a skill first is really stupid IMO, no skill at all involved...

 

Well, anyways, thank you very much for the input, maybe I should look for another game.

 

Warlocks are quite an interesting class...

 

It will depend mostly on the experience/skill of the player rather than on the gears you may have.

 

WoE/PvP-wise, it can be quite deadly if balanced properly in conjuction with help from teammates... it also can be worthless if you have the gears but not the skills to use them.

 

There are 2 prominent builds that you may be interested in... TV and Comet, each has its unique play style and unique set of stats/gears.

 

As per WoE Warlock, you may want to look at this Warlock:

 

 

 

 

Any questions, feel free to address it on the forums.

[Hardc0re]

If you want to CC, PvP isn't the place for it. In PvP, it's a "whoever clicks first is the winner" because there is no reduction in damage like in BG/KvM/WoE.

 

 

Warlocks are quite an interesting class...

 

It will depend mostly on the experience/skill of the player rather than on the gears you may have.

These 2 statments kinda counter each other.

So one of you says the class requires skill do play, and the other says that whoever clicks first wins, wich is basically saying that the game requires no skill at all.

 

I saw the videos. What good is playing a class that "depends mostly on the experience/skill of the player" when all I'm going to to in the game is spam TV or Comet? How can that be a measure of skill? It's only a spam-fest or Comet/run/go back/Comet.

[Tofu]

The people that play the game as if they only have 1 skill they need to spam will say it's just a game of 1 shotting the other person first.

The people that try to take the game to the next level, and utilize their class's entire toolbox will say there's skill involved with playing your character well.


PvP is just a 1 shot first fest, if you stand there, don't defend yourself, wait for someone to 1 shot you, and then you come back and do the same to them. But there are a number of classes that do not play that way, if you choose to play them properly.

I'd still highly recommend a Shadow Chaser for pvp. I know the fact that so many people play chaser was a big turn off for you, but 99% of them do not play them "properly" in pvp. They play as if it's just a big 1 shot fest, and act as if they have no way to defend themselves.

But if you play a high INT, instant cast chaser, and copy Hell Plant, you'll be able to play the way you want to play. High control capability with your masqs + manhole, but it's not a 1 shot game for you, because Hell Plant is not a 1 shot skill. You'll do ~15k per hit, but you can do it fast. But you need to disable your current target enough so that they cannot move, and you're then free to murder them with repeated Hell Plants.

This is NOT how most chasers play. In fact, I've never actually seen anyone else do this before. People are still surprised when they see repeated ~12ks and die to my chaser, by something other than Rapid Throw.

That's not to say Warlocks don't have the capability to do that kind of thing in PvP too, it's just much more difficult for Warlocks to do well in PvP solo, if you don't take some kind of high burst damage spell.

Edited by Tofu, 12 March 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Hardc0re]

Tofu, thanks for the input man, I think you are getting close to explain the game in a way what I want to hear it

 

But in this case (chaser with Hell Plant), wouldn't I be purposely nerfing myself just so I can't 1-shot someone? That's not my goal.

Of course if I can get a strong damage skill, I won't get the "second best" one just because I don't wanna 1-shot.

 

What I really want is to be able to control and change the pace of a fight, instead of just spamming the 1-shot skill. Spamming a low-damage skill is not solving that problem, just nerfing myself.

 

Honestly, I saw LOTS and LOTS of Ragnarok PvP/WoE videos and I found every single one of them really boring and skill-less. Just lots of people near each other spamming AoEs non-stop.

The only video I've ever seem of RO that made my eyes shine was this one:

 

THIS is how I want to play this game.

Clever use of the game mechanics, good disables, good survivability tricks and yes, the power of killing people.

Cmon, this guy uses skid trap on himself to be able to move out of Vaccum, this is PvP! Not spamming Comet/Dragon Breath or other crap like that.

 

Edited by Hardc0re, 12 March 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Tofu]

You're not just nerfing yourself by taking hell plant for the sole purpose of picking something subpar.

Rapid throw is the most popular chaser 1 shot skill, but it's highly unreliable:
1. Costs 100k per attempt
2. Has a high failure rate (over 50% fail rate, even with high dex/luk)
3. 10 second cooldown
4. Damage is purely random, from 50k to 100k

Any chaser killing with rapid throw is basically just throwing zeny at the RNG gods, and praying for a kill.


Hell plant, on the other hand:
1. Can be instant cast
2. Deals 10k-16k fixed damage as a chaser, based on INT.
3. Has no cooldown, just a 0.5 second global delay
4. Cheap to use, 5k-10k per cast
5. Has no fail chance

This is why I take hell plant.

Hell plant, combined with Feint Bomb to evade damage, and Shadow Form to reflect damage, makes chaser a highly skill based character, if played this way.

[Peerless]

Tofu, thanks for the input man, I think you are getting close to explain the game in a way what I want to hear it

 

But in this case (chaser with Hell Plant), wouldn't I be purposely nerfing myself just so I can't 1-shot someone? That's not my goal.

Of course if I can get a strong damage skill, I won't get the "second best" one just because I don't wanna 1-shot.

 

What I really want is to be able to control and change the pace of a fight, instead of just spamming the 1-shot skill. Spamming a low-damage skill is not solving that problem, just nerfing myself.

 

Honestly, I saw LOTS and LOTS of Ragnarok PvP/WoE videos and I found every single one of them really boring and skill-less. Just lots of people near each other spamming AoEs non-stop.

The only video I've ever seem of RO that made my eyes shine was this one:

 

THIS is how I want to play this game.

Clever use of the game mechanics, good disables, good survivability tricks and yes, the power of killing people.

Cmon, this guy uses skid trap on himself to be able to move out of Vaccum, this is PvP! Not spamming Comet/Dragon Breath or other crap like that.

Wow, almost everyone in that pvp room were bad...

 
 

[Hardc0re]

Wow, almost everyone in that pvp room were bad...

 
 

 

So, in a PvP Room where everyone is good, spamming Dragon Breath is the way to go?