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BM balance and improvements


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#1 Turniper

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

So with the introduction of this VCR stuff, I decided to make a handy thread that will allow us to discuss balance changes that BMs would need with any upcoming changes.

 

Things to note:

 

-We already got the buff we wanted pre-AoV so we're not looking for a buff, we're looking for balance. Please do not make any "herpaderp buff plox" posts. Most BMs understand that we're up there in class rankings and we don't expect to make it out of the coming fixes without a slight nerf at least.

 

-Here we'll assume that the hit rate formula will be fixed at some point before any changes suggestions here are considered. Because STR is still useless, BM builds would either stack VIT or AGI depending on preference. This my be subject to change of the attack power formulas are ever fixed.

 

-DPS and tank builds are now both viable because of the skill changes made after AoV. Because of this there is no single build that works for everyone and other builds must be taken into consideration.

 

-Grizzly form gives less defense than is actually stated by the skill because of the extra defense given by VIT. The skill description is bugged, not the effect.

 

-Because of the extra vigor given by Osiris gear and accessories, skill CDs are much lower than they were pre-AoV when BMs gained nothing from wearing tank gear. Please take the shorter CD into consideration when discussing skill balance. This mainly applies to skills such as Feral Defense, Frenzy, Survival, Wild Impact, Beast Charge, and Brutal Strike, in order of CD lengths.

 

-Currently, all the game has to offer at endgame is farming and PvP. Future content includes the raid Darkwhisper Fortress and a damage/hp/defense increase for all mobs and bosses in post-AoV content. We can make changes for now based on PvP content, but we have no idea how any fixes for now will stack up against the upcoming content changes.

 

-Because of the current state of BM as one of the least BS classes, there is a rise in the number of players making a BM. Any changes discussed should also consider players leveling Beastmasters with lowbie stats and unfinished skill builds before reaching ML content.

 

Things currently targeted as issues:

 

-Having the highest defense and HP is a huge imbalance among the tank classes. The extra defense from VIT needs to be changed. Possible changes are reducing the defense boost to only 1 VIT = 1 DEF or increasing the hp gain to 1 VIT = 20~23 HP.

 

-Grizzly form doesn't allow the use of Ymir Child and by extension Bear Carnival. It's not certain whether or not this was intended but it makes the skill less viable for tanking. Possible fixes would be to make the both skills usable in Grizzly form with the effects applying, but no appearance change; to add a Treebear model that allows Ymir form and, by extension, Bear Carnival; or making it so that Bear Carnival does not require Ymir's Child form. The second option I believe would be the most appealing, however it would also be the most work for the devs...

 

-SP consumption is currently crap for BMs, making it even worse than it is for certain casters (based on experience). Lowering SP cost of skills would be a band-aid fix for just one class when this is actually a problem for more than just us. My thought is that a balanced fix would be to increase natural SP regen by 2-4 times the current value, and then making SP(not HP) regenerate naturally during combat, but at a reduced rate.

 

-Frenzy does not affect fury strike at the moment. This may be a bug based off of it being the only skill that generates the same amount of BP each time now or some other arbitrary coding derp. However, this seems fairly balanced to me and adds an extra dynamic to rotations in PvE and PvP.

 

 

I know that there are several things I missed and everything stated above is subject to change depending on what goes on in the coming months. I'll be sure to add anything of note as the direction of the thread begins to change.

 

Also, Njoror just added several threads on the class discussion page. However, those are feedback pages, so I'll leave this here as a discussion page so that one doesn't get cluttered.


Edited by Turniper, 07 March 2014 - 11:34 AM.

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#2 Arbalist

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:04 PM

I'll just repost this here for the Vit = Def discussion.


I did some simple calculations on the Defense stat just to show that life without 1Vit = 2Def isn't as scary as one may think.

 

The Defense formula is found here: http://forums.warppo...fence-formulas/
Defense%=Defense/((Defense*.01)+(Level*.35)+8.7)
*Level is calculated from 1-70 so if you are master level you would use 51-70
 

At Master Level 20 unbuffed, I have 1608 Vit and Osiris set gives 3442 base Def (we also all start with 1 base def I suppose).

 

My Current Stats (1Vit = 2Def)
Human: 6659 Def = 66.73%
Grizzly: 9988.5 Def = 75.05%

Hypothetical Scenario A (1Vit = 1Def)
Human: 5051 Def = 60.34% (-6.39%)

Grizzly: 7576.5 Def = 69.53% (-5.52%)

Hypothetical Scenario B (1Vit = 0Def)

Human: 3443 Def = 50.91% (-15.82%)
Grizzly: 5164.5 Def = 60.87% (-14.18%)


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#3 Arbalist

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:18 PM

Grats on VCR Ursaling~ Can you see if you can get your hands on stat caps? Basically just want to see if there's a limit on Def since I learned there are people out there with 20k+ Def, but it would also be nice to also know other relevant ones such as Vigor, Parry, Crit, etc. It could potentially help for discussing balance issues. The only one I've confirmed personally is Cast Speed. 

 

Thanks.


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#4 Arbalist

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:13 AM

Seems like the other bears are still in hibernation.

 

 

 

-Grizzly form gives less defense than is actually stated by the skill because of the extra defense given by VIT. The skill description is bugged, not the effect.

 

Can I ask what the issue is here? My Grizzly form description seems to be correct in saying 50%. Def. 7112 -> 10668

 

...add a Treebear model that allows Ymir form

 

 

Let's not forget a Tree Tiger...no wait...a Tiger Woods model. I want to break the sound barrier by stacking Tiger + Ymir and all other crazy speed boosting shenanigans. If anything, it would encourage me to grind for the rest of my points.

 

 

 

...increasing the hp gain to 1 VIT = 20~23 HP.

 

I will try to make these calculations sometime later if no one else decides to. I would die from excitement from the sheer amount of HP but also die from imbalance.


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#5 Turniper

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:41 PM

What I would like the most for me in terms of ymir form and bear carnival would just be taking out the transformation. Make Ymir form a normal 3m buff that doesn't involve a transformation so that you can use other transformations. This benefits all forms for BMs, because even in human form the salad mode is ugly as hell.

 

And about the defense, I haven't actually tested it since I'm all dps but I thought I heard it from someone else a while back xD


Edited by Turniper, 21 March 2014 - 02:42 PM.

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#6 xLuc

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:29 PM

Try to address the ABNORMALLY HUGE damage you guys have, either in Bear/Grizzly forms, sitting alongside with warriors DPS (monks are quite the DPS machines too if I remember well but, well).

 

Thanks!


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#7 Turniper

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 04:41 AM

High damage is a problem for most classes right now. But yeah, BMs have always been about good sustain instead of high damage, even in PvP.


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