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#1 Njoror

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:20 AM

Hello.

 

This topic will be used to collect Warrior class suggestions.

 

Please use the form below when submitting balance issues.

 

Remember, the more detail, image, or video that can be provided, the quicker these issues can be addressed.

 

Character Name:

Suggestion Type: (Example: Skill, Stats, Animation, etc)

Suggestion Description:

Video/Image Link (if applicable):


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#2 jhay1825

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 07:41 AM

Ok its been so long since ive been here. :o
So here i go with some suggestions.

Character Name: JoonHo
Suggestion Type: Skill ( Pummel Attack )
Suggestion Description:
Make Pummel Attack knock down duration last 5 secs. Pummel is 1 of warriors main knock down skills, but it misses almost pretty much evrytime. Plus the duration is too short, that we can only land 1 or 2 (if lucky) attacks. While monks have 5 second knock down which can be at 12 sec cd if im not mistaken. Warriors have slow attack to begin with even with pumping haste, the attack speed increase is barely noticeable and not a big factor.


Suggestion type: Skill ( Battle Leap )
Suggestion description:
Now i have no complaints about BattleLeap being as it is, other than we get immobile while aiming it. But i dont think Battle Leap or any charge skill should be affected by slow. I mean i get the point that it slows down movement, and im fine with myself running like im carrying a ton of weights but BattleLeap is not movement! It is a skill! It is our gap closer, and pretty much the only skill that could get us close to kiters. But leaping in slow motion?! Holy hell! Crescentias can just DOT and slow and wait till we die, cant even outheal the DOT with pot coz magical Magical base DOTs ignore defense for some reason. Ive even seen Arbalist the 110kBM do his beast charge with slow and the slow motion is too much that he could cook his breakfast, eat and come back and his charge isnt half way yet!
My main point is, slow shouldnt affect skills! 70% slow movement speed? Ok! But our gap closer which is not movement but skills shouldnt be affected by it. I know its possible and i still beat a couple with me being slowed down and have q million debuffs and guild skills on me, but so much effort while other classes doesnt have to build rage or combo can just DOT and slow and kite is just wow.

Anyways ill try to get videos for both my suggestions.

Edited by jhay1825, 04 November 2014 - 07:57 AM.

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#3 Arbalist

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:29 PM

Ive even seen Arbalist the 110kBM do his beast charge with slow and the slow motion is too much that he could cook his breakfast, eat and come back and his charge isnt half way yet!
 

True story. +1 for this suggestion, but god damn it's one of the funniest bugs when not in a serious PVP situation.


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#4 jenaze12

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 03:09 AM

Hi there JoonHo,

 

This will be my first response as a VCR,

I'm all aware of the current warrior skills, and I also agree of your suggestions except increasing stun duration of pummel strike.

Warriors are best played in a team match that's our advantage. I haven't passed my report yet but I promise you that I will make a good result out of it. To make our class better is my priority, not too imba not too weak. Gathering information for now is my goal, and yours is the start.

 

Warriors For Life :D


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#5 jdmtouch

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 08:11 AM

Character Name: Hero

Suggestion Type: Skill

Suggestion Description: Battle leap should not be affected by accuracy/target's evasion when we have to aim it. Right now you have to aim it in a location and if you manage aim it properly, there's a chance for it to miss based on your accuracy and target's evasion. 

 

 

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#6 VuoriDevine

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 10:39 PM

Hi there JoonHo,

 

This will be my first response as a VCR,

I'm all aware of the current warrior skills, and I also agree of your suggestions except increasing stun duration of pummel strike.

Warriors are best played in a team match that's our advantage. I haven't passed my report yet but I promise you that I will make a good result out of it. To make our class better is my priority, not too imba not too weak. Gathering information for now is my goal, and yours is the start.

 

Warriors For Life :D

Not trying to be rude or anything, but.... who are you?! 
I mean ign, ppl should know who you are so can talk to you as a vcr.


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#7 jenaze12

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:38 AM

Character Name: Acerha

 

Suggestion Type: Skill Warrior Parrying Passive and Skill

 

1. The current state of parry is -50% block for all damage, and I've been thinking that since the server RO2 Na have specialized warriors with high parry, I've got some suggestions to make but 1st.

 

Suggestion Description:

 

Why rebalance warriors parry?

To make warriors more tanky, since we all know that knight has higher defense than warriors and also has high dodge than warrior.

 

Crit vs Parry – Since the thief’s Critical buff re-balanced crit rate had gone higher than usual, ML30 warriors parry percentage is ranging 40%-xxx but my char got 41% as a sample.

 

Crit rate is ranging 25-40% for other characters generally and let’s say +10% of genocide buff.

 

2. I’ve gone into an experiment with a monk because they got this double attack and has fast attack speed to determine crit rate vs parry.

As the experiment goes I’ve observed that parry doesn’t affect crit rate, I mean is parry doesn’t lower the percentage of the crit rate. That crit rate is stable, we’ve tried damage test with a level  5 Parrying Skill of a warrior, which adds a fix 40% additional parry for 10sec, so then my parry goes from 41% to 81% as he attack 2dmg is popping up a crit dmg and a parry dmg. At first I am expecting that I can parry more than he can crit, that I can maybe lower his crit rate for 10sec given time, but it didn’t happened. Sad part is i haven't taken a video out of it, and i can't at my current state cause i reverted my original build already and it does not include this skill at max.

 

3. My main aim for this is very simple, that warrior’s parry should block more than 50% dmg reduction. How about a 75% or up to you guys. Let set an example.

 

Before                                                                  After
2k crit dmg                                                            same
1k normal dmg                                                      same
500 parried dmg                                                   250 parried dmg

 

The Skill Ideas

Parrying à              Parry Mastery/Passive
                                at Level 5 reduce 50% dmg when an attack is parried
                                                or
                                Parrying/Cast
                                Adds 40% parry for 10sec and also reduce parried dmg by 50%
but I prefer the first one

 

(This is only an example)

 

I hope you’ll understand the situation
I've been given the opportunity, and making the best of it

 


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#8 Greven79

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 11:21 AM

Character Name: JoonHo
Suggestion Type: Skill ( Pummel Attack )
Suggestion Description:
Make Pummel Attack knock down duration last 5 secs. Pummel is 1 of warriors main knock down skills, but it misses almost pretty much evrytime. Plus the duration is too short, that we can only land 1 or 2 (if lucky) attacks. While monks have 5 second knock down which can be at 12 sec cd if im not mistaken. Warriors have slow attack to begin with even with pumping haste, the attack speed increase is barely noticeable and not a big factor.

 

Hi Jhay. Keep in mind that the Warrior has Battle Leap with a 3sec knock-down and a 9sec cooldown in addition to Pummel Strike.

 

So better compare Battle Leap with Lightning Walk: Whereas the monk has a 5sec stun and a 20sec starting cooldown; the Warrior has a 3sec knock down, a 15sec cooldown and is able to affect multiple targets at once. So it's crowd control vs. single-target lock-down. IMO, the comparison with monks is rather an improper one - maybe too much based on personal dislikes. And if you prefer the "argumentation by highlighting inbalances" strategy, why not menthion the priest? 5sec stun + 3sec cooldown. So better options are:

 

Knights: Shield Charge + Shield Bash

Beastmaster: Beast Charge + Wild Impact

 

Tl;dr: Just lower the cooldown of Pummel Strike to 30~40sec instead.

 

 

Why rebalance warriors parry?

To make warriors more tanky, since we all know that knight has higher defense than warriors and also has high dodge than warrior.

 

Crit vs Parry – Since the thief’s Critical buff re-balanced crit rate had gone higher than usual, ML30 warriors parry percentage is ranging 40%-xxx but my char got 41% as a sample.

 

Crit rate is ranging 25-40% for other characters generally and let’s say +10% of genocide buff.

 

2. I’ve gone into an experiment with a monk because they got this double attack and has fast attack speed to determine crit rate vs parry.

As the experiment goes I’ve observed that parry doesn’t affect crit rate, I mean is parry doesn’t lower the percentage of the crit rate. That crit rate is stable, we’ve tried damage test with a level  5 Parrying Skill of a warrior, which adds a fix 40% additional parry for 10sec, so then my parry goes from 41% to 81% as he attack 2dmg is popping up a crit dmg and a parry dmg. At first I am expecting that I can parry more than he can crit, that I can maybe lower his crit rate for 10sec given time, but it didn’t happened. Sad part is i haven't taken a video out of it, and i can't at my current state cause i reverted my original build already and it does not include this skill at max.

 

First of all, using a Knight's dodge as an argument is not the wisest move.

 

The game had 3 different types of protections beside plain defense:

  • damage reduction (100% trigger chance, low damage decrease)
  • dodge (low trigger chance, 100% damage decrase )
  • parry (higher trigger chance, 50% damage decrease)

That means that parry was a compromise between damage reduction and dodge. If you compare the three according skills:

  • Aura Shield = 20% damage reduction
  • Evasion = 20% dodge
  • Parrying = 40% Parry

You will see that all three versions reduce the average overall damage by 20%.

All three concepts have their advantages and disadvantages.

  • Damage Reduction: Always active, but the lowered damage might still kill you
  • Dodge: Can prevent deadly hits, ignores stun, etc., but might not trigger at all
  • Parry: Half the benefits of the other two, but also half the drawbacks

 

However, the devs didn't implement it well. In LotS, gears usually granted twice as much dodge than parry (the wrong way around) and now, dodge is opposing hit, whereas parry is independant of crit. chance. The latter wouldn't be an issue, if all classes would deal twice as much damage on a critical hit and parry would half that back to the amount of a "normal hit". In addition, the game right now focusses too much on overpowered damage reduction. Just imagine, if you could choose between a 20% armor rune, a 40% parry version or a 20% dodge alternative.

 

Tl;dr: Just make make parry opposite to critical hits. I.e. a parried critical hit becomes a normal hit instead and a normal hit a "fumbled" hit for 50% damage. fewer critical one-shots in the game.


Edited by Greven79, 04 December 2014 - 12:16 PM.

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#9 RenKasha

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 06:52 PM

Character Name:CyanRave

Suggestion Type: skill change stat change questions

Suggestion Description:#1 suggestion for warrior would be giving battle leap a auto target like assassin's leap attack but still control it.

#2 during brandish storm i find it hard to stop after hitting it once and spins twice not letting me use a pet or skill to cancle it.

#3 for the other also why do warrior and knight not get 2 defense per 1 vitality like monk and beastmaster.

#4 recently noticed hitting 5 for aura strike then brandish storm on 4 makes me use aura strike twice and im sure im not hitting it mutliple times same for the above #2.

#5 i've been messing around with hit rate vs dodge and 9k+ hit rate i can land maybe 1-2 hits out of 20 vs a 3k dodge is this working right?

 


Edited by RenKasha, 02 March 2015 - 06:53 PM.

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#10 Greven79

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 02:21 AM

:#1 suggestion for warrior would be giving battle leap a auto target like assassin's leap attack but still control it.

 

I don't support that. It's an AoE knockdown, not a single-target hit. IMO, it also fits to the theme of a Warrior being overly powerful but less precise.

 

#2 during brandish storm i find it hard to stop after hitting it once and spins twice not letting me use a pet or skill to cancle it.

 

Noticed that also (with other classes as well). Try to force you not to press the button more than ones.

 

#3 for the other also why do warrior and knight not get 2 defense per 1 vitality like monk and beastmaster.

 

One correction, two reasons:

 

Correction:

Knights and beastmasters get +1 DEF per VIT... only monks get +2.

 

Reason 1:

Sadly Warriors are considered more a DPS class and get +3 ATK per STR instead

 

Reason 2:

Balancing: Warriors have Defender (+30% DEF), so Knights use DEF/VIT to compensate.

Monks & beastmasters have a lower starting defense on their gear (BM = 50%; monk = 25%), so they need the extra defense to balance that out.

 

#5 i've been messing around with hit rate vs dodge and 9k+ hit rate i can land maybe 1-2 hits out of 20 vs a 3k dodge is this working right?

 

Most likely caused by a level difference.


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#11 jhay1825

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:00 AM

Well Battle Leap has a plus and minus. Its either an advantage or disadvantage during fights.

- it requires precise and quick aiming, plus you have to stay still for a second or depending how long and fast you do aim.
- its hit rate is horrible.
- Battle Leap can be stopped during mid air.
- it is affected by slows, meaning you are slowed up in the air making the skill super easily avoided.

If they do push for a change like it becoming like what Shadow assault is. It shouldnt be a AoE stun. Warriors are gonna be at the top of the food chain with knights when this does happen, but will still be inferior depending on scenarios. I mean damage wise they are one of the top already.

But i dont know where the class balance is going honestly so im not gonna be surprised at anything but i guess youll never know.
#sarcasm

Edited by jhay1825, 03 March 2015 - 07:01 AM.

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#12 Matsuyuki

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:45 AM

Being a Skillshot, Battle Leap should NEVER miss if you aim it right, the fact that you have to manually aim and land it yourself makes it ridiculous when it misses even when aimed correctly.


That should apply for all Skillshots tho' not only battle leap.


Edited by Matsuyuki, 05 March 2015 - 12:46 AM.

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#13 Greven79

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 05:46 AM

Being a Skillshot, Battle Leap should NEVER miss if you aim it right, the fact that you have to manually aim and land it yourself makes it ridiculous when it misses even when aimed correctly.

That should apply for all Skillshots tho' not only battle leap.

 

Sure hits are not a necessity for skillshots.

 

Athough it takes the correct aiming & timing, there is no reason to exclude a specific form of self-protection!

The four different forms in RO2 are defense, damage reduction, parry and dodge. No reason to exclude the last one.

Because then you could question the effect of other offensive abilities beside hit, like criticals or armor penetration.

 

So the difference of 'skillshot' abilities is that they bypass target selection, occational facing issues and changes the effect (size or power).

Battle Leap f.e. may miss, but bypasses the need to "tab" through or clicking on the right opponent and potentially affects more targets.

It also ignores other issues like 'dying targets' that can interrupt 'auto-aiming' attacks or might simply have a increase effect instead.


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#14 Matsuyuki

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 06:00 AM

Sure hits are not a necessity for skillshots.

 

Athough it takes the correct aiming & timing, there is no reason to exclude a specific form of self-protection!

The four different forms in RO2 are defense, damage reduction, parry and dodge. No reason to exclude the last one.

Because then you could question the effect of other offensive abilities beside hit, like criticals or armor penetration.

 

So the difference of 'skillshot' abilities is that they bypass target selection, occational facing issues and changes the effect (size or power).

Battle Leap f.e. may miss, but bypasses the need to "tab" through or clicking on the right opponent and potentially affects more targets.

It also ignores other issues like 'dying targets' that can interrupt 'auto-aiming' attacks or might simply have a increase effect instead.


The fact you can slow down the warrior, which affects the time of execution of the skill making you able to physically dodge it makes it kind of, what's the word, what's the word, redundant. Makes it kind of redundant don't you think? 

I don't really understand the relation between that and the next part of your statement, the hit, critical, or penetration, I'd like you to expand of that, because the way I see it, those are rates related to one another by certain formulas that are out of the control of the player besides adding stats/gear/skills that modify those rates, but I might be misunderstanding you.
 
On the other hand, yeah they bypass target selection, and this is usually more of an issue than a feature, in WoE for example, when one of your guildmates is fighting someone and you leap in to help him or to gank the other one, you might end targeting your guildmate, and that kind of alters the flow and makes that target selection bypassing kind of useless because you end up having to select or tab your opponent anyway. So this is very YMMV and situational.

I didn't understand the last part too, by dying targets I guess you mean the dead bodies standing bug but that's an different issue altogether and throwing it here feels like a "it's not a bug, it's a feature" I think.


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#15 Greven79

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:47 AM

Even before I read your reply, I already took a break from work to walk and to ponder how to put it into different words.

However, I doubt that the next segment statisfies you - so you might want to jump right to the 'examples & result' section.

 

Conceptual:

Spoiler

 

Examples & result:

Even games like LoL or D.o.t.A have difficulties to differentiate between skillshots and other attacks, although both are heavily centered around manually-aimed, well-timed attacks, movement-alterating skills and 'collision-detection' in general.

 

The reason is because aiming the mouse to 'select' a target isn't that different from moving a mouse over a designated spot or in a certain direction. So it's more a matter of how fast an effect hits. That determines, how quick the opponent has to be. Some skills won't get listed as a skillshot, because they are a bit faster than others (although still aimed manually & timed).

 

But still, all the other game mechanics apply. This means that you might still get some sort of stacks, bonus damage... and this means damage can still be reduced or prevented by any means. But how this is actually implemented doesn't matter. Some heroes might prefer an immunity, whereas others 'dodge' or even lunge for a riposte.

 

But back to RO2:

Parry, dodge, damage reduction, etc. all have the same intention, just different names & flavors.

  • Now why should a Battle Leap be an automatic hit, but should still allow Parry?
  • Is it easier for those to have chosen dodge over parry to evade such a Battle Leap?
  • Now why should a manual-aimed attack punishing a single flavor more than others?

And even beside that:

  • where's the conecptual difference between a jump or charge that deals damage right away and a Wizard's Teleport followed up by a Frost Nova or another fast attack (Sadly Wizards have none, but just assume he would use Brandish Storm, Beast Tornado or Wild Impact)?

Auto-aim skills can be interrupted as well, so that doesn't count. A priest can stun a charging bear, an opponent might interrupt a fireball in mid-flight or during the cast-time.

 

So my point of view is:

You're right that the possibility to evade a certain attack might cause balance issues. How severe this is depends on very specific things: In case of Battle Leap, it's the question how fast an opponent is (how many (stackable) speed boosts there are).

 

BUT - I wouldn't balance them by excluding dodge (or any other flavor-specific aspect) that would punish only a subset of players.

 

And in case of a Battle Leap, I explained that the possibility to stun & damage multiple targets IS the chosen compensation for the manual aiming. Whether this is enough or 'balanced' is surely questionable though.


Edited by Greven79, 05 March 2015 - 10:01 AM.

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#16 DPSwannabe

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:56 AM

okay guys after reading a bit of your conversation, let us include the part of where when the opponent is running, the actual toon in your screen (even with 1ms ping) is not the correct position of the enemy, thus when you are running right behind him or casting battle leap a little advanced to his position, you will not hit him with BL or get the cannot cast this skill anymore (ghost cooldown) of your rage strike. What I really mean is that we need to address that bug as it is a problem for all melee skills with long cooldown.


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#17 RyuMax02

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 04:35 PM

Character Name: RedxStar

 

Suggestion Type: Skills (Rage Control)

Suggestion Description: When raising the rage control meter up to 100 and use it for Rage Strike, the meter decreased to 50 instead of 0. I believed there is an update about this before around last year but maybe I remember it wrong. Knowing that Battle tactics will definitely be nerf in the future, us Warrior class still depend on full power rage strike, so Rage control should be able to increase the Rage strike

 

Suggestion Type: Skills (Strike)

Suggestion Description: Rage Strike should be able to use both 50 and 100 rage varied of power output.

 

Video/Image Link (if applicable):N/A


Edited by RyuMax02, 08 March 2015 - 04:35 PM.

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#18 Matsuyuki

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 09:38 AM

I agree with most of the things you said so I won't quote the whole post, so this might feel a little like nitpicking, but it's not, I swear.  :p_swt: 

 

So my point of view is:

You're right that the possibility to evade a certain attack might cause balance issues. How severe this is depends on very specific things: In case of Battle Leap, it's the question how fast an opponent is (how many (stackable) speed boosts there are).

 

BUT - I wouldn't balance them by excluding dodge (or any other flavor-specific aspect) that would punish only a subset of players.

 

And in case of a Battle Leap, I explained that the possibility to stun & damage multiple targets IS the chosen compensation for the manual aiming. Whether this is enough or 'balanced' is surely questionable though.


The part I bolded out its the part I feel that needs more attention. I've always felt that Battle Leap was the "odd one out" of all the gap closers because it's affected by many things that other gap closers/stuns just ignore, no only it can be physically dodged, it can be also physically slowed down (and, physically speed up too!), it's affected by specific buffs/debuff that other similar skills ignore. (I'm thinking mainly about Shadow Assault and Lighting Walk that have teleport-like effects, because I'm not 100% sure if Shield Charge and Beast Charge are affected by slow debuffs).

That's why I suggested that Battle Leap could ignore dodge unlike other skills, because it's already given special snowflake treatment by being affected by those things, but after reading your post I'm not so sure about it anymore, maybe a better solution could be making the leap speed static regardless of the movement buff/debuffs on the character.


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#19 Arbalist

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 10:05 AM

I'm not 100% sure if Shield Charge and Beast Charge are affected by slow debuffs).

They are very much affected by slow. Try (beast) charging with 1% walk speed (Wind rune), hilarity will ensue. 


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#20 Greven79

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 11:11 AM

@ Matsuyuki:  I would never insist that others quote my "walls of texts".

 

Sure, making the gap-closers unaffected by slow effects might be a way to increase their effectiveness, but I would put these changes second from top.

 

Slows are only a different form of a CC effect. And if you manage to combine enough slow effects, why shouldn't it result in a snare? So if you would have been frozen, trapped or even stunned instead, you couldn't use the gap-closer at all. If you're slowed, it's definitely not worse... it's a "use at own risk" / "better-than-nothing" condition.

 

You just have to make sure that slows are limited as well to avoid a permanent impediment... and they aren't. THAT'S the point I would address first.

 

As I've said, I would then limit the number of (stackable) speed bonuses available during combat. I bet you can already eliminate most issues by that. If not, I would reconsider the cooldown and damage output of the skill... and if all these methods fail, I would touch other game mechanics (dodge, crits, etc.).

 


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#21 RenKasha

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 04:30 PM

Character Name:CyanRave

Suggestion Type:rebalance and removal of battle tactics

Suggestion Description:instead of battle tactics just give a passive 1/2 x1 damage 2/2 x2 damage when rage is at 100 for 10secs or something.

 


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#22 Greven79

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 05:43 AM

Character Name:CyanRave

Suggestion Type:rebalance and removal of battle tactics

Suggestion Description:instead of battle tactics just give a passive 1/2 x1 damage 2/2 x2 damage when rage is at 100 for 10secs or something.

 

This kind of stuff already exists for Beastmsters when using Grizzly Form or Bear Spirit... and the suggested increase is by far too powerful.
 


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#23 RenKasha

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Posted 01 June 2015 - 12:22 PM

Character Name:CyanRave

Suggestion Type:rebalance and removal of battle tactics

Suggestion Description:instead of battle tactics just give a passive 1/2 x1 damage 2/2 x2 damage when rage is at 100 for 10secs or something.

 

 

 

This kind of stuff already exists for Beastmsters when using Grizzly Form or Bear Spirit... and the suggested increase is by far too powerful.

ok let me get this straight sorcerer can do freeze+crit get 4x dmg  sin can hide+crit get x4 dmg+penetration warrior/knight has BT 600%+ crit damage and 300% cap is too much? for 10 secs like at 30% chance at 100 rage really?


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#24 Greven79

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 06:13 AM

ok let me get this straight sorcerer can do freeze+crit get 4x dmg  sin can hide+crit get x4 dmg+penetration warrior/knight has BT 600%+ crit damage and 300% cap is too much? for 10 secs like at 30% chance at 100 rage really?

 

Just because you found other broken mechanics doesn't make your suggestion less broken.

 

Sorcerers f.e. pay for their x4 damage increase with a max. skill damage of 892% (JT) or 800% (VS). A Jupitel Thunder against a frozen target deals a max. damage of 3200%. 

 

Since you compare both classes, do you like to lower a Rage Strike & Shield Cannon down to less than 900% as well, also removing the additional 30% damage boost agaist knocked-down//stunned targets?

 

Because against knocked down target, a 1140% Rage Strike already deals 1482% damage. A normal crit. deals 2964% (pretty close to the x4 of a Sorcerer)..

 

Now let's apply your idea:

Level 1/2: x1 meaning +100% additional crit. damage = x3 total => 4446%

Level 2/2: x2 meaning +200% additional crit. damage = x4 total => 5928%

 

Warriors & Knights would then deal much higher peak damage than Sorcerers. So how do you justify that?

 

So generally spoken, I'd really like to know why players (even VCRs) uusally refer to the "roles matters most" argument to state that DPS classes ought to deal more damage than tanks, but ignore this very statement in case of BT.

 

So what should it be? Should tanks have the highest peak damage or is this a specialty of DPS classes?

 

Because when I state that Warriors & Knights shouldn't get a high damage boost out of two lousy skillpoints spent on Battle Tactics, I am questioned or called a weirdo. But I simply apply the rule above, stating that Warriors & Knights can have a high average damage, but surely don't deserve to have the highest peak damage.

 

In other words: I would prefer a version with a lower damage bonus that triggers // is applied more frequently instead.


Edited by Greven79, 11 June 2015 - 11:47 AM.

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#25 Greven79

Greven79

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 02:29 PM

Addendum:

I was told to edit inappropriate posts, which surely includes this one. So let's put things into the right context:

(This is also the reason why I left the original text there).

 

Part 1 - The "role matters" concept:

To keep it short, It's a discussion from the VCR section. It's a concept about how to the distinction between roles: Tank, DPS & Support.

The idea is to increase the preset focus of each class towards the given role: Tanks would be centered more around suvivability, DPS classes on a high damage output and support classes on heals / buffs.

 

To highlight the importance or relevance, I would go that far to state that it's - as it stands right now and only from my perspective - the only issue where we got something like a feedback from Gravity.

 

Well, the existance of this clearification should make it an open secret that I didn't agree. No further explaination given.

 

Part 2 - Battle Tactics:

I guess I don't have to explain this one that much. IMO, it's single-handedly the most broken skill in Ragnarok 2 and there's surely a reason why it was one of the primary skills for a balance discussion. But as it stands right now, it's still not clear what to do with it. So it seem to be a hard one.

 

And although I disagreed on the other point, I am a sharp critic about Battle Tactics. I would even go that far to remove it and if that creates other inbalances, I'd cleave through them as well. (f.e. possible WoE siege weapon & guardian discussions)

 

Part 3 - Contradicting argumentations:

And whereas arguing with friends about the former part can feel like defending the damage output of Warriors & Knights, the second part feels like the exact opposite. And part of any good discussion is the attempt to take up the standpoint of the opposite side. And that's the tricky part and let to this reply.

 

So this is just clearification this time, no appology, That would require me to lie. 


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