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Knight Feedback: Suggestions


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#1 Njoror

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:21 AM

Hello.

 

This topic will be used to collect Knight class suggestions.

 

Please use the form below when submitting balance issues.

 

Remember, the more detail, image, or video that can be provided, the quicker these issues can be addressed.

 

Character Name:

Suggestion Type: (Example: Skill, Stats, Animation, etc)

Suggestion Description:

Video/Image Link (if applicable):


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#2 xLuc

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:46 PM

http://forums.warppo...cussion-knight/


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#3 xLuc

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:51 AM

xLuc

Stats Suggestion:

 

Hi. I want to suggest an overhaul on knights' stats boni. Currently our relevant stats look like

 

STR: 2 atk, 1 parry, 2 hit

AGI: 1 crit, 1 hit, 2 dodge

VIT: 12 hp, 1 defense

 

Knights, in comparison to some other classes, start by getting only 2 bonis, while most classes get at least 3.

Also, 2 dodge per AGI doesn't make the slightest difference to a knight, it's a completely useless boni. Since warriors hold the attack boni on STR, I'd like to suggest moving the knights' AGI boni to STR, on the hit department: 1 STR = 2 atk, 1 parry, 3 hit. I know some knights suffer from missing hits and would be helpful I think.

 

1 defense per VIT is OK I guess, but I'd like to suggest making VIT give 13 HP also, instead of 12 only.

That way it would look like:

 

STR: 2 atk, 1 parry, 3 hit

AGI: 1 crit, 1 hit, 1 dodge

VIT: 13 hp, 1 defense

 

3 bonis, more relevant stats.

 

If a VCR could comment on what they think about this matter I'd be grateful.

Cheers.


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#4 xImperialKnight

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 02:56 PM

It'd make more sense in my opinion since Dodge is practically useless ot us. Its far more useful for warriors than it is for Knights.  We're already suffering on our hit rate as it is, so I think this 3 hit per str could be helpful to us both in PVE and PVP.  It wouldn't be game breaking either since we'd actually be able to..y'know....hit something instead of relying heavily on crits.
This isn't at all a bad suggestion. Its definlently a step towards a better tank class than just being a Wanna-be DPS tank. We'd be putting points into stats we could use instead of stats we need just to keep up with the rest. I'll keep this noted.


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#5 xLuc

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 09:50 PM

xLuc

Skill suggestion: Shield Cannon

 

Whenever you knock down your opponent and use Shield Cannon, the total 1160% damage will be increased by 30%. But, unlike when you hit a not knocked down target, that deals the same damage among the 3 hits, when knocked down the damage will scale upwards, being the first hit the weakest one and the last the strongest.

 

That has pros and cons: pro being if you hit only the last one it's a decent damage, con being if you hit only the first one it will be a very low damage.

I'd like to suggest two ways of revamping the skill:

 

1) Make all 3 hits deal the same damage when knocked down, or;

2) Make the scale random, meaning you could get the strongest hit on the first or second hit, and vice versa.

 

Thanks.


Edited by xLuc, 12 December 2014 - 09:52 PM.

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#6 Cailen

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 11:39 PM

For the love of God, fix Aura Heal already.


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#7 xImperialKnight

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 07:53 PM

For the love of God, fix Aura Heal already.

 

Please believe me when I say this. We have pitched this god knows how many times to them and they still haven't gotten to it. The bug list is pretty long and I understand people's patience can and will run dry. I simply ask you bear with us, but rest assure that we ARE trying to do something about fixing/correcting skills/stats/equps.

 

P.S.

I've been lurking the knight threads every now and then so if you have suggestions do feel free to post or send me a p.m.


Edited by xImperialKnight, 15 December 2014 - 07:55 PM.

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#8 Cailen

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 11:37 PM

It's only healing for a third as described. It's pathetic when compared to Warrior and Beastmaster heals.


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#9 Shinyusuke

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 12:45 AM

They finally fixed it, no wait they fixed only half of it how can they be so dumb to fix half skil only?!?!?
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#10 GarudaBlack

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 12:58 PM

They finally fixed it, no wait they fixed only half of it how can they be so dumb to fix half skil only?!?!?

 

oh hello Shinyusuke, in this case is not devs fault. I will link my bug report of Aura Heal:

 

 

If you watch in YouTube you can see in the video description I only focused on the 1 HP heal problem.

 

Obviously the heal is not good and don't work like the description, but to give a better report and caught their atention I need figure out how the formula works and apoint where is the problem. Sadly, I still don't understand how it works to report and get fixed.


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#11 Cailen

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:17 PM

Aura Heal at level 6:

Casts power of Aura to the target and 3 enemies near the target, and recovers HP equaling 100% of your Physical Damage for every 1 Aura. Equal effect is added for each additional Aura.


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#12 Shinyusuke

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:46 PM

The formula is easy (healed hp)=(nº aura)x(Pattack)/3 the error is in that /3 if you use only 1 aura it heals 1/3 of your Pattack instead of all the Pattack per aura, not to mention that "enemy" in the description XD

EDIT I hope that's the formula but I espect everything from these devs :s

Edited by Shinyusuke, 17 December 2014 - 11:47 PM.

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#13 Cailen

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 12:55 AM

It also heals 1/3 with 3 aura. They should remove the /3.


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#14 Greven79

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 01:11 AM

I thought, the skill is suppose to be dependant on physical skill effect, not just on attack power alone.

Combining 3 Auras should therefore create an effect that's similar to a Knight casting a Heal lvl1 (300%).

All the Priest skills are referring to "magical damage" and mean the INT based physical skill effect.

 

Btw: I hoped that the knight would get the BM's Survival skill, restoring 10% (per aura) of the max. HP of every party/raid member within range.

 


Edited by Greven79, 18 December 2014 - 01:26 AM.

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#15 Iasin

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 03:14 PM

Khosrau

 

Skill Suggestion

 

When we say knight, TANK class comes out from my mind and not just a tank but the BEST TANK class since it wears the heaviest armor and the only class using shield in the game. Unfortunately, knight is the worst tank class in this game. Comparing Knight and Warrior in tanking, they almost evenly matched. Beastmaster and Knight, with the OP hp and heal of a beastmaster, what can a knight say? Lastly, comparing a Knight with a Monk in tanking, is a monk a tank class to begin with? wearing cloth like armor and knuckles can tank better than a knight? The answer is YES, with the skills given to a monk like Iron Skin defense +50% (passive), Steel Body health +35%, and defense +200% (buff) not to mention Protection Ki. So, what is the knight's tanking skills? Aura Armor damage received reduced by 5%, +20% HP (which warriors have it too), Aura Shield reduce damage taken by 20% for 10 seconds. Lastly, Shield Fortress reduce damage taken by party with in 20m for 10% in 10 seconds. What I'm trying to say is, give a knight a BETTER TANK SKILLS.

 

Believe me, these are all in game experiences. I would love to post a video that a monk is tanking for our party in Dark Whisper. Unfortunately, I don't know how to take a video.


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#16 xLuc

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:44 PM

Just you wait for Greven's response on this. God have mercy on thy soul...


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#17 Greven79

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 06:36 AM

Just you wait for Greven's response on this. God have mercy on thy soul...

 

:ok:

 

When we say knight, TANK class comes out from my mind and not just a tank but the BEST TANK class since it wears the heaviest armor and the only class using shield in the game. Unfortunately, knight is the worst tank class in this game.

 

Comparing Knight and Warrior in tanking, they almost evenly matched. Beastmaster and Knight, with the OP hp and heal of a beastmaster, what can a knight say?

 

Lastly, comparing a Knight with a Monk in tanking, is a monk a tank class to begin with? wearing cloth like armor and knuckles can tank better than a knight? The answer is YES, with the skills given to a monk like Iron Skin defense +50% (passive), Steel Body health +35%, and defense +200% (buff) not to mention Protection Ki.

 

So, what is the knight's tanking skills? Aura Armor damage received reduced by 5%, +20% HP (which warriors have it too), Aura Shield reduce damage taken by 20% for 10 seconds. Lastly, Shield Fortress reduce damage taken by party with in 20m for 10% in 10 seconds. What I'm trying to say is, give a knight a BETTER TANK SKILLS.

 

Believe me, these are all in game experiences. I would love to post a video that a monk is tanking for our party in Dark Whisper. Unfortunately, I don't know how to take a video.

 

Ragnarok knows 4 different tank classes: Warriors, knights, monks and beastmasters. A tank can be determined by a special skill that raises the threat high enough to ensure that a boss focusses on that character. Every tanking class is meant to be unique, but none of them to be the best.

 

This creates choices and diversity, because otherwise you'd need only 3 classes: The best tank, the best DPS and the best support. So Ragnarok knows 4 tanks, 3 healing classes and 5 other classes. All of them focus on different aspects.

_______________

 

With exception of the Beastmaster, tank classes get two defensive skills. One with a 60sec starting cooldown and one with 120sec. The former can be used twice as often and therefore are only half as effective.

 

Knight - Aura Shield: 100% chance for 20% less damage

Warrior - Parrying: 40% chance for 50% less damage

Monk - Evasion: 20% chance for zero damage

 

So all three ought to reduce the overall damage by 20%. For a long time, the knight's version was the players' favorite.

 

The other four defensive skills are also meant to be similar effective.

 

Warrior - Endure: 40% damage reduction, can act

Monk - Ki-Protection: 50% damage reduction, can act (might require inner energy)

Knight - Shield Fortress: 50% damage reduction; can't act, but 20% damage reduction for the team (not 10%)

Beastmaster - Feral Defense: 100% damage reduction, can't act

 

A beastmaster would survive any damage, a knight can protect other comrades, whereas the monk and warrior stay mobile and can continue to attack. Favorites depend on the game situation. Due to the lack of true PvE with deadly boss AoEs, monks & warriors might now have the upper hand here.

_______________

 

But let's get on the most important part - the defense:

 

Both warriors and knights have the highest gear defense in the game. In fact every single osiris, himmelmez or cazar gear part grants twice as much defense (+100%) compared to beastmaster gear part and four times as much defense (+300%) when compared to monk. Both the beastmaster and monk have to spend skillpoints to compensate that. So they use 'magic' (f.e. to harden their skin) to achieve what warriors and knights get 'for free'.

 

Originally, the knight's shield alone increased the defense by ~40%, but WarpPortal changed that into a 10% damage reduction.

 

All in all, except for the BM, the tank classes can achieve 90% or more defense rate.

_______________

 

Beside the defense and the protective skills, you also have the healing skills. Yes, the beastmaster does have the most broken skills, but as long as you can have healer, heal pets or pots, this usually doesn't turn out to be that important to be a good tanker. The knight (as well as the warrior) can compensate that with a higher damage output, which reduces the time a bpss might damage/harm the team (see Eremis debuffs f.e.)


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#18 Iasin

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 01:18 PM

For the gears you say? that's why i'm so pissed about. Obviously; a knight have better defense when it comes to the gears. But, when we compared our overall defenses, he (monk) out numbered me (knight) by 15k. Take note, he's 2 levels lower than me and you can't say I was out-geared because i'm wearing up-to-date-gears on that level.

 

Why don't you try turtling at the back of shield fortress in the middle of dark whisper upper last room and compare it to a monk that can easily run around the place luring mobs to attack him so we can grind them?

 

and with the OP HP of the beastmasters they are becoming invisible in WoE and in Duel. because of that, the RO2 world today is full of bears.

 

like what I've said, everything is in-game experiences not just fancy facts from the blackboard.


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#19 xLuc

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 07:50 PM

The point is, when Greven makes a post, he takes into consideration a perfect scenario. Forget about how much of a joke the game actually is.

Knights/warriors use heavy armor, yes. Monks/BMs don't. The former do not need any kind of "magic" to boost their defense (aside from Aura Armor, yea, but that's a damage reduction thing, not defense) because they get it from heavy armor. The latter use lighter armor so they have to somehow get on par with the previous two, for what they use skills: Steel Body for Monk, Grizzly Form for Beastmaster.

Monks do have more defense than a knight as long as they are both unrefined (I think?). Armor refinement on warriors and knights tend to get a -_-load of defense due to very high base value. Blame that part on Gravitiy for requiring you to P2W to be a true tank.

 

All in all, game is broken. True PVE content is LONG gone.

Golden PVE era, best main tanks in my oppinion were knights (tho they could swap easily with warrior on that) and monks (those were gods, nuff said).

 

Anyway, if you lost Legend of the Second, you lost the best this game has ever offered and, probably, you'll never see it back again.


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#20 Shinyusuke

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:27 AM

Anyway, if you lost Legend of the Second, you lost the best this game has ever offered and, probably, you'll never see it back again.


You don't know how true these words are.

Edited by Shinyusuke, 08 January 2015 - 12:28 AM.

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#21 Greven79

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:07 PM

For the gears you say? that's why i'm so pissed about. Obviously; a knight have better defense when it comes to the gears. But, when we compared our overall defenses, he (monk) out numbered me (knight) by 15k. Take note, he's 2 levels lower than me and you can't say I was out-geared because i'm wearing up-to-date-gears on that level.

 

Why don't you try turtling at the back of shield fortress in the middle of dark whisper upper last room and compare it to a monk that can easily run around the place luring mobs to attack him so we can grind them?

 

and with the OP HP of the beastmasters they are becoming invisible in WoE and in Duel. because of that, the RO2 world today is full of bears.

 

like what I've said, everything is in-game experiences not just fancy facts from the blackboard.

 

You're absolutely right with your statements.

 

Yes, a monk has a higher defense than a Knight as long as you don't compare the end-game situation! This is caused by the fact that a monk generates large parts of his defense via the DEF per VIT stat bonus. And because this bonus is relatively independant of your current class and refinement level, knights might be more a p2w class. But with fully refined Himmelmez and Cazar gear, that advantage for the monk is gone.

 

And of course, you're right that a Shield Fortress really has a painful disadvantage (no actions, no movement). But you have to understand that the game once had a meaningful PvE part as well. And in most cases, you were fighting quite stationary - especially the main tanks (just look how you fight against Ratmaster, Maya, Baphomet, Drake, etc.). Bosses & mobs were attacking you, not vice versa. Therefore, the drawback wasn't considered to be that severe as it might be today. That's what I meant with "depends".

 

Yes, beastmasters can become kind of  'invulnerable' in certain situations - and I pointed this out as wel -, but I doubt that BMs are the most common class and I doubt your statement about BMs during WoE. I know BMs that got one-shotted by knights and 'two-shotted' by assassins, hence their high HP value. I know knights that are kind of invulnerable during WoE, but that PvP system rarely knows fair fights. So a repetitively stunned bear or knight can't do much and no healing skill could change that.

 

My reply was to show that all the tank classes share most of the key aspects. Whether a single implementation is preferrable is situational and debatable. F.e. the Knight is the only tanking class with a slow effect. Warriors and bears have no ranged attack. Bears and monks have no mass provoke... Is this fair? Is it relevant? ... the usual answer is... it depends.


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