359 replies to this topic

[3722121031200347517]

since clerics are squishy now and some cant afford the stuff to last that long and get 200pts for that required healing amount...why not put up points for buffing efforts just to encourage full support clerics to join in this patch(few clerics(fullsupport) jion in already i have played 3 games in a row without cleric which is STUPID) if you don't want to give them decent points since its their duty to buff and heal

[Feuer]

What function as expect when players give up entire classes, and deem them as unplayable. I am arguing for a fair and balance game, which every classes are playable and a fair change of killing each other. You, in other hand, is arguing for a one side battle, with multiple unplayable classes. Thus, Arguing with you is pointless. YOU CANNOT WRITE OFF ENTIRE CLASSES BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO WRITE OFF GRAVITY'S ASSETS. Leonis cannot do that neither. He would be fired as soon as he tries it. How many time do I have to beat this information into your head? Do you have some office experience/knowledge or none at all?

 

Where exactly did I write off a class? 

 

You and I both posted exactly the same thing, classes that have advantages, and weaknesses. You asked if I feel things as far as class roles go, are where they're supposed to be and I said yes.

 

I have plenty of office experience, customer service experience, staff + store management experience as well as game design + conceptualization experience. I never said I had authority to write off a class either, where did that come from? Not even my point in this.

 

You state that you're arguing* for all classes to be able to kill all classes. That's not a balanced system, that's an omni-balance. If that were done, there would be no bother for differentiating roles. You might as well just take away classes, give everyone all the same skill sheets, and then all use the same "pro" build and beat eachother in melee fights for hours at end. 

 

The definition of balance as I've posted before is "a state in which opposing forces or influences are equal". In order to achieve balance, each class needs a counter balance. "a weight balancing another weight; an equal weight, power, or influence acting in opposition". In order to have power, there needs to be weakness. Or else your power would just equal out with the opposing power and be null in comparison. Each class needs a strength, and a weakness. Arguing for all classes to be equal in all aspects, is the sign of a novice designer, not a novel one. 

[Soda]

is it me or stuns are just longer~ cant move from 2 scouts hitting me

 

I thought I was the only one who noticed this. I think its some sort of glitch or something. When I get stunned its like I can't even move for 5 seconds and I'm not even exaggerating.

[Bendersmom]

I asked about that early in the conversations Soda and was told to get mspd gear, or it was things we don't see or something.  When scouts hit it is hard to move and if more than one is on you then forget it.  It almost like you are tasered.  And most of the time the rest of the party don't realize you are being hit because it is ranged.  

[ChampPower]

The two important things I got out of this page of conversations are:

 

"However, Draco players are getting better at sticking with and protecting the cleric to make the cleric's job easier, especially if there is only one FS. They scatter and 1v1/aoe people as is their job and run back to the cleric (or spawn) for heals and to protect the cleric. With the couple of intermittent good games, CD is certainly more active and enjoyable. "

and the reply was 

"We also more battle orientation than Draconis. We fight to win, not playing around. We also do not want to wait for a hand out from GM to the point of making other classes unplayable."

 

That is one of the issues....when players work as a team you usually have really good wars.  When players don't listen or just run off alone the games are no fun at all.  Especially on a FS cleric trying to help the whole party.  

 

And I agree - it is very hard to run with scouts hitting and stuns and or silence last too long.  I wish BC would all make sure to get purify and at least a few heals.  It would help the FS clerics sooo much.  BC need a good amount of healing, but they are not usually the strongest killers.  They are doing well but if I have to choose who to heal I will heal mage, arti, champs for the crowd control they can do over a BC typically.  So if they have some heals to help themselves before I can get to them would be great.  Then if they can help with healing the group that is good too.  I think BC are still figuring out their builds so we will see how it all turns out.  

 

I am agree with you. The tatic against the Draconis play style is easy, too.

 

1. fight as normal

2. wait for them to return to their cleric. Send in 1-3 raiders with cloak to track and find the location of the cleric. After they find the location of the cleric, notify everyone.

3. after learning the location of the cleric, employ the pick and peel tactic to less the protection around the cleric and draw the attention of their protectors

4. send in the raider for the kill. also hit it with range for a faster kill and ground control.

 

You see this tactic regularly in Leonis. This is why i said we are more battle orientation than Draconis. We go for the kill and win.

 

 

I asked about that early in the conversations Soda and was told to get mspd gear, or it was things we don't see or something.  When scouts hit it is hard to move and if more than one is on you then forget it.  It almost like you are tasered.  And most of the time the rest of the party don't realize you are being hit because it is ranged.  

 

Agree.This is one of the issue, which people give up the class in mass. Even if your party notice the shooter, when they run out, they are exposing you to the raiders, which is entirely new danger. They also run in to the risk of being ambush. it is a lose lose situation.
 

 

Edited by ChampPower, 22 March 2014 - 03:36 AM.

[ChampPower]

The definition of balance as I've posted before is "a state in which opposing forces or influences are equal". In order to achieve balance, each class needs a counter balance. "a weight balancing another weight; an equal weight, power, or influence acting in opposition". In order to have power, there needs to be weakness. Or else your power would just equal out with the opposing power and be null in comparison. Each class needs a strength, and a weakness. Arguing for all classes to be equal in all aspects, is the sign of a novice designer, not a novel one. 

 

What are the weakness of raider and xbow scout then? raider has incredible high speed, thus it is able to out-run and out-hit anything, unless it is up against another raider or the xbow scout. So what is the weakness of raider? Is it it's own classes?

 

What about the xbow scout? it has a knight defense, a high speed, high damage, high dodge, and range. where is it the weakness?
 

Talking with you is a waste of time, Feuer.

Edited by ChampPower, 22 March 2014 - 03:26 AM.

[Bendersmom]

To me the telltale is that even raiders themselves all say raiders are OP in wars now.  They hide, hit hard, hide and survive.  I rarely have to heal a raider in CD.  Same with most xbow scouts. With their high def and good range they rarely need heals.  Yet both classes are getting really high scores. To me that suggest one of two things, either the players that play those classes are really good or they are OP.  Since a lot of players are pretty new to the classes and still doing well I am assuming that means they are OP.  But even when the players that play those classes say they are OP then to me that would suggest that some of their skills or the amount of damage they do should be revised a bit.  Not nerfed, just small changes to bring them more in line with the other classes.

[kwayan19]

I asked about that early in the conversations Soda and was told to get mspd gear, or it was things we don't see or something.  When scouts hit it is hard to move and if more than one is on you then forget it.  It almost like you are tasered.  And most of the time the rest of the party don't realize you are being hit because it is ranged.  

may mage got 2k mspeed and still get stuck 

[SlowBob]

What are the weakness of raider and xbow scout then? raider has incredible high speed, thus it is able to out-run and out-hit anything, unless it is up against another raider or the xbow scout. So what is the weakness of raider? Is it it's own classes?

 

The weakness of raiders is their realy low def / HP. Massive aoes at the crystal are still risky for them, but once a con based class attacks them (bourg, arti...) they end up dead, each shot just bypasses their dodge.

 

 

In other words: get high acc and all raiders will fear you (just like back in days)

Edited by SlowBob, 22 March 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[SpawN9999]

Thats why i got shield throw. Hit a squishy class with that and instruct everyone to gang them and its usually a death sentence.

[DestinyDeoxys]

I've played around with this update V.496 quite awhile to comment on this new skill system, first of all I didn't play the artisan / bourgeois / knight because they didn't get any significant changes, I've played them enough already before this skill system. And I've already updated the skill build and etc. on my cleric guide and mage guide on this forum as well. Also, I'm going to be biased more towards PvP situation because if you can do well in PvP, chances are you won't have any problem in PvM.




Cleric - I've only played the support cleric only, have not played the battle cleric yet, regarding the high consumption of MP as everyone have mentioned, I totally feel it. But after some slight skill adjustment, I've managed to get around it, given that I'm using some extreme support set up, you know the full 30CHA 8MP recovery stat all over my fighting gear, 40% MP consumption wand, full set of dual buffs (the ones that combining 12 buffs into 6 buffs), but there is one thing that I need to point out which has nothing to do with cleric but has to do with cleric indirectly which I will mention in the katar raider part, as a result I don't have any problem with cleric at all so far



Mage - in terms of skill build, this class is no doubt the most challenging one out of 8 classes out there, I've spend a great amount of time to adjust skill build to suit different PvP situation, you've made 4 different element skill passive to the mage skill tree. And they are ...

Water mastery - first of all, I think you should rename this thing to Ice mastery, because water is so not cool and not fit the skills in relation, all of the skill under that branch has to do with Icy stuff and has nothing to do with water, and this water mastery is not that good in my opinion because the idea is a flaw, you have to hit in order to gain conserve MP, that's a little bit strange to me. I've played around with it and proposed a skill build with it on my skill guide, but eventually I take it down and replaced it with something else because stacking all the water mastery along with all ice skill was not really a good idea, this skill was designed to work with mana shield I guess? So you have to get all MP passive and stuff together to make the mana shield spammable, but the problem is when you do that, you've used a lot of SP which ends up not having enough attack skill in your skill set. This is the reason why I have to give up this idea of pure water skill + water mastery thing, and to replace it with something on the Sorcery tree. And FYI, you don't need this water mastery at all if you don't intend to use the mana shield heavily, so as a result this water mastery skill is pretty much useless. If I were asked to change this skill, I would change this to something that absorb MP from enemy like Lv.1 mana fissure gives 10% MP absorb, Lv.2 mana fissure gives 20% MP absorb (where Lv.5 water mastery has 40% chance to induce a stack of mana fissure status)

Wind mastery - this is a great one for DEX build, and also this is the only one has the ability to do pre-battle stacking, you don't have to hit any enemies to induce Lv.3 wind walker, all you need to do is to spam tempest and tornado, you don't need this wind mastery if you are going pure offensive

Fire mastery - at first I proposed a pure offensive PvP skill set up for it which contains fire mastery and sorcery mastery, I've used that build to fight few crystal defender, the conclusion is that, this Fire mastery sounds offensive but it is really not, because I've played around with it and I still realize the whole Fire skill tree are still slow DPS and not suppressing, may be I get a wrong message from the developer in the beginning, there is a reason why this fire mastery has 5 stacks of Blaze instead of 3, the reason is that I think the developers don't want us to use Fire skill to PvP they make the Blaze requires so long to be fully kicked in, so I've taken down the pure offensive PvP build and replaced with something else which has nothing to do with fire at all and concluded that Fire skill and mastery is really just for PvM not for PvP

Sorcery mastery - this one is good for 1 vs 1 PvP, the mute and with the mystic weakening is an ideal combination to take down enemy as quick as possible, it is suited more towards PvP instead of PvM, because monster just die right away with few skills, it doesn't even have the HP to enjoy the maximum 5 stacks of mystic weakening effect, so this is PvP skill



Katar raider - now I need to mention the thing that affect clerics (probably everyone) needs to be changed, they have three status (Adrenaline rush, critical accordance and vicious accordance), it's this "critical accordance" needs to be changed, because it is a debuff cast on target, unlike Adrenaline rush, and vicious accordance which are self buff cast onto yourself. The problem is that it takes only less than 3 seconds to stack the critical accordance to the max. That is saying a cleric suffer from 30% critical debuff, from EVERYONE on the other team, because cleric is public No.1 target. So in my opinion, the critical accordance should be changed from a 30% critical debuff to like 30% critical self buff, so only the katar raider itself take benefit from it instead of the whole enemy team take benefit from it.




Dual raider - ok not really surprising after like 6-7 years, this dual raider still suck like usual, katar raider gained 3 status from this update (Adrenaline rush, critical accordance and vicious accordance), but dual raider only gets two, one is fine (weakened armor), the other one (wounded) does not even work on PvM because monster don't heal. This whole dual raider thing is still a joke, because a full buffed katar raider has like 5K dodge, while a dual raider has only 4K dodge full buffed, you need that evasive guard to get it to 5K dodge. As I and many have pointed out that this class is supposed to be more skill spamming instead of melee like a katar, therefore their skill damage / accuracy / dodge are supposed to be higher than that of a katar raider, but this doesn't seem like the case, skill damage is very disappointing for this class, the accuracy passive is really bad, where 20SP only gives you like 200 more acc? dodge which I've mentioned before, you need to use evasive guard to be on par with what a katar raider has. We still need to have some adjustment for their defense passive, accuracy passive, didn't I propose a defense based on STR passive as well as accuracy based on DEX passive before?

Regarding the wounded status, it is a battle between dual raider's circle break (wounded) vs. cleric's party integrity (healing touch), in order to stop war from grouping up like a stalemate, the earlier one wounded status is supposed to out-class the party integrity by a little. But right now, wounded gives 8% healing deduction for every 12 seconds and healing touch gives 5% healing bonus for every 18 seconds. In other words, wounded gives 0.6666% per sec healing reduction and healing touch gives 0.27777% per sec healing bonus, so there is nothing wrong with the calculation. I think this class lacks accuracy, skill power, dodge, and skill casting speed is still very slow, not to mention katar raider has 3 emergency button (stealth, unique stealth, cloaking), while dual raider only got one (unique stealth)




Scout - bow scout still dies easily, may be need more HP passive and HP recovery status while under camouflage and they have a some traps, but I still have not figure out how they work exactly, sometimes the Siphon trap can trigger by your own allies and hurt your own, and I don't know if all traps have the same radius of triggering




I guess that's it for now.

[Soda]

I've played around with this update V.496 quite awhile to comment on this new skill system, first of all I didn't play the artisan / bourgeois / knight because they didn't get any significant changes, I've played them enough already before this skill system. And I've already updated the skill build and etc. on my cleric guide and mage guide on this forum as well. Also, I'm going to be biased more towards PvP situation because if you can do well in PvP, chances are you won't have any problem in PvM.




Cleric - I've only played the support cleric only, have not played the battle cleric yet, regarding the high consumption of MP as everyone have mentioned, I totally feel it. But after some slight skill adjustment, I've managed to get around it, given that I'm using some extreme support set up, you know the full 30CHA 8MP recovery stat all over my fighting gear, 40% MP consumption wand, full set of dual buffs (the ones that combining 12 buffs into 6 buffs), but there is one thing that I need to point out which has nothing to do with cleric but has to do with cleric indirectly which I will mention in the katar raider part, as a result I don't have any problem with cleric at all so far



Mage - in terms of skill build, this class is no doubt the most challenging one out of 8 classes out there, I've spend a great amount of time to adjust skill build to suit different PvP situation, you've made 4 different element skill passive to the mage skill tree. And they are ...

Water mastery - first of all, I think you should rename this thing to Ice mastery, because water is so not cool and not fit the skills in relation, all of the skill under that branch has to do with Icy stuff and has nothing to do with water, and this water mastery is not that good in my opinion because the idea is a flaw, you have to hit in order to gain conserve MP, that's a little bit strange to me. I've played around with it and proposed a skill build with it on my skill guide, but eventually I take it down and replaced it with something else because stacking all the water mastery along with all ice skill was not really a good idea, this skill was designed to work with mana shield I guess? So you have to get all MP passive and stuff together to make the mana shield spammable, but the problem is when you do that, you've used a lot of SP which ends up not having enough attack skill in your skill set. This is the reason why I have to give up this idea of pure water skill + water mastery thing, and to replace it with something on the Sorcery tree. And FYI, you don't need this water mastery at all if you don't intend to use the mana shield heavily, so as a result this water mastery skill is pretty much useless. If I were asked to change this skill, I would change this to something that absorb MP from enemy like Lv.1 mana fissure gives 10% MP absorb, Lv.2 mana fissure gives 20% MP absorb (where Lv.5 water mastery has 40% chance to induce a stack of mana fissure status)

Wind mastery - this is a great one for DEX build, and also this is the only one has the ability to do pre-battle stacking, you don't have to hit any enemies to induce Lv.3 wind walker, all you need to do is to spam tempest and tornado, you don't need this wind mastery if you are going pure offensive

Fire mastery - at first I proposed a pure offensive PvP skill set up for it which contains fire mastery and sorcery mastery, I've used that build to fight few crystal defender, the conclusion is that, this Fire mastery sounds offensive but it is really not, because I've played around with it and I still realize the whole Fire skill tree are still slow DPS and not suppressing, may be I get a wrong message from the developer in the beginning, there is a reason why this fire mastery has 5 stacks of Blaze instead of 3, the reason is that I think the developers don't want us to use Fire skill to PvP they make the Blaze requires so long to be fully kicked in, so I've taken down the pure offensive PvP build and replaced with something else which has nothing to do with fire at all and concluded that Fire skill and mastery is really just for PvM not for PvP

Sorcery mastery - this one is good for 1 vs 1 PvP, the mute and with the mystic weakening is an ideal combination to take down enemy as quick as possible, it is suited more towards PvP instead of PvM, because monster just die right away with few skills, it doesn't even have the HP to enjoy the maximum 5 stacks of mystic weakening effect, so this is PvP skill



Katar raider - now I need to mention the thing that affect clerics (probably everyone) needs to be changed, they have three status (Adrenaline rush, critical accordance and vicious accordance), it's this "critical accordance" needs to be changed, because it is a debuff cast on target, unlike Adrenaline rush, and vicious accordance which are self buff cast onto yourself. The problem is that it takes only less than 3 seconds to stack the critical accordance to the max. That is saying a cleric suffer from 30% critical debuff, from EVERYONE on the other team, because cleric is public No.1 target. So in my opinion, the critical accordance should be changed from a 30% critical debuff to like 30% critical self buff, so only the katar raider itself take benefit from it instead of the whole enemy team take benefit from it.




Dual raider - ok not really surprising after like 6-7 years, this dual raider still suck like usual, katar raider gained 3 status from this update (Adrenaline rush, critical accordance and vicious accordance), but dual raider only gets two, one is fine (weakened armor), the other one (wounded) does not even work on PvM because monster don't heal. This whole dual raider thing is still a joke, because a full buffed katar raider has like 5K dodge, while a dual raider has only 4K dodge full buffed, you need that evasive guard to get it to 5K dodge. As I and many have pointed out that this class is supposed to be more skill spamming instead of melee like a katar, therefore their skill damage / accuracy / dodge are supposed to be higher than that of a katar raider, but this doesn't seem like the case, skill damage is very disappointing for this class, the accuracy passive is really bad, where 20SP only gives you like 200 more acc? dodge which I've mentioned before, you need to use evasive guard to be on par with what a katar raider has. We still need to have some adjustment for their defense passive, accuracy passive, didn't I propose a defense based on STR passive as well as accuracy based on DEX passive before?

Regarding the wounded status, it is a battle between dual raider's circle break (wounded) vs. cleric's party integrity (healing touch), in order to stop war from grouping up like a stalemate, the earlier one wounded status is supposed to out-class the party integrity by a little. But right now, wounded gives 8% healing deduction for every 12 seconds and healing touch gives 5% healing bonus for every 18 seconds. In other words, wounded gives 0.6666% per sec healing reduction and healing touch gives 0.27777% per sec healing bonus, so there is nothing wrong with the calculation. I think this class lacks accuracy, skill power, dodge, and skill casting speed is still very slow, not to mention katar raider has 3 emergency button (stealth, unique stealth, cloaking), while dual raider only got one (unique stealth)




Scout - bow scout still dies easily, may be need more HP passive and HP recovery status while under camouflage and they have a some traps, but I still have not figure out how they work exactly, sometimes the Siphon trap can trigger by your own allies and hurt your own, and I don't know if all traps have the same radius of triggering




I guess that's it for now.

 

Hey destiny, what do you think if the passives gives a fixed success chance but you would need to max it in order to gain the max buff/debuff of it. For me it would make Mage more diverse since right now, if you max a certain passive, you're forced to get most of the skills under that passive. Since you need to use , for example, mostly fire skills for blaze to stack. Of course you need to max Fire Mastery to get the 35% success chance and get a bunch of fire skills that some, you dont really need. Well here is my suggestion on it (Just copy pasted it on page 13.)

 

==================================================

 

 

Just an additional suggestion. I think it would be better if the passives gives a fixed % chance. For example:

 

Sorcery Mastery would give 45% chance to apply 1 stack of Mystic Weakening at lvl one but the percent on the mdef reduction would be lowered.

 

Lvl 1 = Sorcery spells have a 45% chance to apply 1 stack of Mystic Weakening on cast to target. Reduces magic defenses by 1%, for 30 seconds (Max 5 Stacks: 5% Magic Defense Reduction)

Lvl 2 = Sorcery spells have a 45% chance to apply 1 stack of Mystic Weakening on cast to target.

Reduces magic defenses by 2%, for 30 seconds (Max 5 Stacks: 10% Magic Defense Reduction)

Lvl 3 = Sorcery spells have a 45% chance to apply 1 stack of Mystic Weakening on cast to target.

Reduces magic defenses by 3%, for 30 seconds (Max 5 Stacks: 15% Magic Defense Reduction)

Lvl 4 = Sorcery spells have a 45% chance to apply 1 stack of Mystic Weakening on cast to target.

Reduces magic defenses by 4%, for 30 seconds (Max 5 Stacks: 20% Magic Defense Reduction)

Lvl 5 =Sorcery spells have a 45% chance to apply 1 stack of Mystic Weakening on cast to target.

Reduces magic defenses by 5%, for 30 seconds (Max 5 Stacks: 25% Magic Defense Reduction)

 

Right now, getting the passive at a lower lvl seems useless since the % chance is too low that you would need to max it to stack. I think its a nice trade off as well since even if you get it at lvl 1 with a high success chance but the effect of it would be very minimal compared to when it's maxed. Just the same as the regular passives on the mage tree , lower % on AP/Skill power on lower lvl but you gain a little benefit even on lvl 1. I'm not sure if I'd like the same thing for raiders since I dont play one.

 

Spoiler

Fire Mastery

• Lvl 1 = Fire spells have a  35% chance to apply 1 stack of Blaze on cast to caster. Increases Spell Power by 2%, for 30 seconds. (Max 5 Stacks: 10% Spell Power)
• Lvl 2 = Fire spells have a  35% chance to apply 1 stack of Blaze on cast to caster.Increases Spell Power by 4%, for 30 seconds. (Max 5 Stacks: 20% Spell Power)
• Lvl 3 = Fire spells have a  35% chance to apply 1 stack of Blaze on cast to caster.Increases Spell Power by 6%, for 30 seconds. (Max 5 Stacks: 30% Spell Power)
• Lvl 4 = Fire spells have a  35% chance to apply 1 stack of Blaze on cast to caster.Increases Spell Power by 8%, for 30 seconds. (Max 5 Stacks: 40% Spell Power)
• Lvl 5 = Fire spells have a  35% chance to apply 1 stack of Blaze on cast to caster.Increases Spell Power by 10%, for 30 seconds. (Max 5 Stacks: 50% Spell Power)

 

Wind Mastery

• Lvl 1= Wind spells have a 40% chance to apply 1 stack of Windwalker on cast to caster. Increase MSPD by 30 & Dodge by 5%, for 30 seconds. (Max 3 Stacks: 90 Movement Speed & 15% Dodge)
• Lvl 2= Wind spells have a 40% chance to apply 1 stack of Windwalker on cast to caster. Increase MSPD by 60 & Dodge by 10%, for 30 seconds. (Max 3 Stacks: 180 Movement Speed & 30% Dodge)
• Lvl 3= Wind spells have a 40% chance to apply 1 stack of Windwalker on cast to caster. Increase MSPD by 90 & Dodge by 15%, for 30 seconds. (Max 3 Stacks: 270 Movement Speed & 45% Dodge)
• Lvl 4= Wind spells have a 40% chance to apply 1 stack of Windwalker on cast to caster. Increase MSPD by 120 & Dodge by 20%, for 30 seconds. (Max 3 Stacks: 360 Movement Speed & 60% Dodge)
• Lvl 5= Wind spells have a 40% chance to apply 1 stack of Windwalker on cast to caster. Increase MSPD by 150 & Dodge by 25%, for 30 seconds. (Max 3 Stacks: 450 Movement Speed & 75% Dodge)

 

Water Mastery

• Lvl 1 = Water spells have a SkLv 30% chance to apply 1 stack of Mana Fissure on cast to caster. Increase MP Recovery by 10, for 30 seconds. (Max 2 Stacks: 20 MP Recovery) Increase MP Consumption by 2%, for 30 seconds (Max 2 Stacks: 4% MP Consumption)
• Lvl 2 = Water spells have a SkLv 30% chance to apply 1 stack of Mana Fissure on cast to caster. Increase MP Recovery by 20, for 30 seconds. (Max 2 Stacks: 40 MP Recovery) Increase MP Consumption by 4%, for 30 seconds (Max 2 Stacks: 8% MP Consumption)
• Lvl 3 = Water spells have a SkLv 30% chance to apply 1 stack of Mana Fissure on cast to caster. Increase MP Recovery by 30, for 30 seconds. (Max 2 Stacks: 60 MP Recovery) Increase MP Consumption by 6%, for 30 seconds (Max 2 Stacks: 12% MP Consumption)
• Lvl 4 = Water spells have a SkLv 30% chance to apply 1 stack of Mana Fissure on cast to caster. Increase MP Recovery by 40, for 30 seconds. (Max 2 Stacks: 80 MP Recovery) Increase MP Consumption by 8%, for 30 seconds (Max 2 Stacks: 16% MP Consumption)
• Lvl 15 = Water spells have a SkLv 30% chance to apply 1 stack of Mana Fissure on cast to caster. Increase MP Recovery by 50, for 30 seconds. (Max 2 Stacks: 100 MP Recovery) Increase MP Consumption by 10%, for 30 seconds (Max 2 Stacks: 20% MP Consumption)

 

[DestinyDeoxys]

Ya, I agree with you. The current system is more lottery gambling, your system is more fair.

But one thing I don't get is that, the water mastery is very conservative not offensive at all, the wind mastery is a little bit PvP oriented, the fire mastery is PvM offensive oriented, the sorcery mastery is PvP offensive oriented. Their percentage to stack up are 30%, 40%, 35%, 45% respectively.

I would assume the most conservative one (water mastery) should have the highest % to stack up, but it has only 30% to stack up. I've played with water mastery around, and it seems weird because it is relatively harder to stack those mana fissure up while Lv.2 mana fissure isn't even that rewarding ...

[Soda]

Ya, I agree with you. The current system is more lottery gambling, your system is more fair.

But one thing I don't get is that, the water mastery is very conservative not offensive at all, the wind mastery is a little bit PvP oriented, the fire mastery is PvM offensive oriented, the sorcery mastery is PvP offensive oriented. Their percentage to stack up are 30%, 40%, 35%, 45% respectively.

I would assume the most conservative one (water mastery) should have the highest % to stack up, but it has only 30% to stack up. I've played with water mastery around, and it seems weird because it is relatively harder to stack those mana fissure up while Lv.2 mana fissure isn't even that rewarding ...

 

Actually the only passives that I don't like is Mana Fissure and Fire Mastery. Although they really do reach max stack with just 5-10 skills which i think is reasonable enough. I already stated this before that skill power gives such low damage , plus you need to reach max stack to get 50%. About Mana Fissure, i think its kinda good since it would help me tank more on wars but the 100 Mp recovery isnt really good and the 20% consumption could be higher, maybe 30%. After playing CD a couple of days now i haven't seen a single mage go for Water tree (Since its obvious on the skills that they're using).

 

I've tried going full wind tree and full fire tree as well. Both good for pvp. It probably just depends on the gears you're using but i got decent damage and good amount of pts on both.

[ChampPower]

The weakness of raiders is their realy low def / HP. Massive aoes at the crystal are still risky for them, but once a con based class attacks them (bourg, arti...) they end up dead, each shot just bypasses their dodge.


In other words: get high acc and all raiders will fear you (just like back in days)

How many champ are need for your massive AoE? If your sample is more than one, can I also use more than one raider in the sample? If I an do that, I suggest a pick and peel tactic for the raider using their speed to inflict massive damage and tactical retrieve before getting any damage. If I can include the xbow scout to the sample, your massive AoE at the crystal is nothing but a sitting duck.

"Get high acc and all raider will fear you", I quote. You sound like we have not thought of this. The problem with this is multiple. First, you have to be artisan and bourgeois to have enough acc. Second, bourgeois and artisan do not have high def or hp. When you get the first hit from the raider, the massive status attack, speed, and damage will get you before you get the raider. Third, you may have range using artisan and bourgeois, but with the advantage in speed the raider can bypass your attack by out run your shooting and range.

I have not heard the xbow scout weakness yet.

Edited by ChampPower, 22 March 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Feuer]

Weaknesses By class

 

Soldier:

Magic defense, mana amount, dodge

Champion:

2H Sword: Critical, Dodge

Spear: Lack single target skill damage, critical

Axe: Speed, Dodge, Accuracy

Knight:

1H sword: Critical, Speed

xBow: Critical, Speed

 

Muse:

Defense, Max HP, Critical

Mage: Melee Speed, Dodge

Cleric - FS: Damage, Dodge, Speed, Critical

Cleric - BC: Dodge, Critical, Speed

 

Dealer: defense, magic defense, dodge

Artisan: Dodge, defense, magic defense

Bourg-Gun: Defense, magic defense, critical

Bourg-Cannon: Dodge, Critical

 

Hawker: Defense, magic defense, max HP

Scout - Bow: Defense, Magic defense

Scout - xBow: Magic defense, critical

Raider

Dual: Critical, Magic defense, defense

Katar: Accuracy, Magic defense, defense

 

 

Edited by Feuer, 22 March 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[Filipito98]

U forgoted an S in scout bow defense XD

[Feuer]

lol since it bothered you that much i fixed it xD

[Nifa]

you forgot the baseball knight

[Feuer]

Nah baseball knights are at the same passive strengths and weaknesses as a 1H sword. This is only speaking about passive designed disadvantages, not potential builds. 

Edited by Feuer, 22 March 2014 - 04:31 PM.

[Ahya]

Agree.This is one of the issue, which people give up the class in mass. Even if your party notice the shooter, when they run out, they are exposing you to the raiders, which is entirely new danger. They also run in to the risk of being ambush. it is a lose lose situation.
 

 

In clashes in a mass, it is foolish for any person to run out of the fight and target the shooter from far away. It's simply put in the class designs: what's the use of your ranged allies (BAs, Bourgs, Scouts) if you have to deal with your ranged enemies instead? And don't give a situation of "what if they don't help" about those ranged allies, they SHOULD help because they will surely earn points from killing such squishy targets, from afar, away from raiders' threats. In clan wars? Don't worry about the ranged people if you're melee, attack what you can and within your reach. Unless you fight with people who try to take all glory for themselves and fight wars to relish their personal vendetta, you don't have to mind those ranged people.

 

 

What are the weakness of raider and xbow scout then? raider has incredible high speed, thus it is able to out-run and out-hit anything, unless it is up against another raider or the xbow scout. So what is the weakness of raider? Is it it's own classes?

 

What about the xbow scout? it has a knight defense, a high speed, high damage, high dodge, and range. where is it the weakness?
 

Talking with you is a waste of time, Feuer.

 

Perhaps, the reason why you flush out the "possible" weaknesses of the raiders and xbow scouts  is that you can't find them, or that you can't properly exploit them, and thus you seek other weaknesses they cannot guard themselves against?

 

The raider has an incredibly high speed, both attack speed and movement speed. You are correct. But that doesn't mean they will be able to outrun anyone, nor outhit any class. It's just crazy to assume they will. You're giving the impression as if you are outrun and outhit by raiders. Maybe, if you're playing a squishy class and you're fighting a raider who has very high attack speed and crits on you often for those mini-stuns, then, you might say, without prejudice, "I have been outhit by this raider."

 

Don't like it much? Let's give you the knight, in all his glory and steadfast defense. Against raiders? No worries. Against xbow scouts? Just a lil bit of worries, I gotta do it smartly and carefully, and no wasting of potion cooldowns. What say you? Run away so they can't catch? A raider who is forced to run away is in every case, in a losing battle. No assassin upholds honor and fights until the end. Unless.. He's an idiot.

 

Ahh, yes, this xbow scout thingy. It has almost knight-like defense, high damage, all with the range. Their defenses may be so high, but a mage can cut them down. Their damage may be very high, but a champ on berserk will surely outgun them. Their range may be great, but others can still cope, and nicely fight back. Say, an xbow scout is fighting and recieving focus healing. That's pretty much invincible, but it has one great weakness most have tried to ignore. No matter the focus healing, if someone gets his buffs dispelled, he will be killed by the nukes of either the champion or the mage.

 

And don't you go telling using dispels are awful. What are you going to do if a murderer comes at your home with a gun, and you only have an Iron Man suit to defend yourself? Is it silly to use it because it will be unfair for the killer? Is it cheating to use it just to defend your life against a murderer with a gun? Tell me if so, I might agree with you. But if you insist that it's your life at stake against that killer, and that it's just a game against raiders and xbow scouts that you shouldn't use dispels, well, you just missed the whole point of gaming, besides fun.

 

Oh and, talking with Feuer isn't a waste of time. It's a wise spending of time, I tell you.

 

 

How many champ are need for your massive AoE? If your sample is more than one, can I also use more than one raider in the sample? If I an do that, I suggest a pick and peel tactic for the raider using their speed to inflict massive damage and tactical retrieve before getting any damage. If I can include the xbow scout to the sample, your massive AoE at the crystal is nothing but a sitting duck.

"Get high acc and all raider will fear you", I quote. You sound like we have not thought of this. The problem with this is multiple. First, you have to be artisan and bourgeois to have enough acc. Second, bourgeois and artisan do not have high def or hp. When you get the first hit from the raider, the massive status attack, speed, and damage will get you before you get the raider. Third, you may have range using artisan and bourgeois, but with the advantage in speed the raider can bypass your attack by out run your shooting and range.

I have not heard the xbow scout weakness yet.

 

If you are given a team of 4 champs, and you are in a team of 4 raiders, the champs will and must be smart enough to not run and chase after you people. And a raider cant attack then go away shortly while doing significant damage. "Use their speed to inflict massive damage and tactical retrieve before getting any damage." That is, from any perspective given by players of ROSE, completely impossible. Don't ask why.

 

It's not necessarily the accuracy. And you surely don't have to be a BA or Bourg to have enough accu. A mage can hit a raider, a champ can hit a raider, a scout can, even a fellow raider. And the raider's damage and stuff won't get you so fast that you can't even cast one skill. It's just out of the question that way. If you say a raider is invincible, why do I see xbow scouts beating them? If you say they hit you so fast before you can even get them, why can a mage spring every raider's ambush, while of course, the raider is stealthed? If a raider cannot be beat anyhow, why do raiders refuse to battle knights? Why can they be forced to escape?

 

No class has no weakness, ChampPower, and certainly, no class is overpowered. As of the current status of ROSE, I don't see any unbalanced aspect, except perhaps the full immunity of the champs from Sleep and Stun. I am quite confident the cry of ROSE players will shift the system from full immunity to an expendable immunity, reducing the immunity capability by 25% for every successful resistance.

 

 

To me the telltale is that even raiders themselves all say raiders are OP in wars now.  They hide, hit hard, hide and survive.  I rarely have to heal a raider in CD.  Same with most xbow scouts. With their high def and good range they rarely need heals.  Yet both classes are getting really high scores. To me that suggest one of two things, either the players that play those classes are really good or they are OP.  Since a lot of players are pretty new to the classes and still doing well I am assuming that means they are OP.  But even when the players that play those classes say they are OP then to me that would suggest that some of their skills or the amount of damage they do should be revised a bit.  Not nerfed, just small changes to bring them more in line with the other classes.

 

They aren't really overpowered. Maybe they're just doing well because they aren't properly countered? Well, even though I don't think they are OP, maybe, small changes should be done. Just to, yes, bring them in line with the other classes.

[Feuer]

 

They aren't really overpowered. Maybe they're just doing well because they aren't properly countered? Well, even though I don't think they are OP, maybe, small changes should be done. Just to, yes, bring them in line with the other classes.

 

Pit a 1v1 match on an even gear basis between a Gun Bourge and Katar Raider. The Raider will lose by class design. They may hit hard, but that reflect damage + 300+ % aspd on bourg total buffs + Super High Accu and good AP = Raider taking too much damage to counter out. Katars are very much countered, Just rare to see someone playing the class that counters them. 

[Ahya]

Pit a 1v1 match on an even gear basis between a Gun Bourge and Katar Raider. The Raider will lose by class design. They may hit hard, but that reflect damage + 300+ % aspd on bourg total buffs + Super High Accu and good AP = Raider taking too much damage to counter out. Katars are very much countered, Just rare to see someone playing the class that counters them. 

 

Agreed. It seems I'm quite forgetful about those other classes. Hahaha.

Edited by Ahya, 22 March 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Bendersmom]

Some in vent were suggesting that people should not get points for individual kills in CD.  That the kill points are shared throughout the whole group.  And at the end you would get points based on wins, kills for whole group, xtals defended or killed.  To me that sounds great.  It would make people work as a team.  right now people are still playing to get highest kills and not protecting clerics, mages, etc.  It might work well.

[SlowBob]

Some in vent were suggesting that people should not get points for individual kills in CD.  That the kill points are shared throughout the whole group.  And at the end you would get points based on wins, kills for whole group, xtals defended or killed.  To me that sounds great.  It would make people work as a team.  right now people are still playing to get highest kills and not protecting clerics, mages, etc.  It might work well.

 

i'll be the one guy who perma afks