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New Powers, New Friends, More Glory! March 13th Patch Notes v496


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#76 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:37 AM

Never really understood this thing of having to kill someone to be victorious. Raiders will be able to back out of fights easier with the increased mobility, but when you can force a raider to back out of the fight, it means he won't be able to do anything. Even if you didn't kill him, it's still a win for you. And trust me, raiders have to back out of fights a lot.


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#77 jacobpalmer

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:41 AM

False. Raiders are not over powered at all. The thing is that champs berserk was overpowered earlier so it made champs own every class in 3 hits. Also raiders are meant to be faster runners than champs by nature so its normal that you cant catch a raider. If you want to catch one use the appropriate gear 

 

Right now, as in the live server katar raiders are, imo well balanced they can beat some, lose to others, its really a close fight.

 

With this new update once fully charged (and with 350%+ aspeed it wont take many seconds) they will have 50% additional crit damage, 50% extra aspeed and 25% extra movespeed and their enemy will have 30% less critical rate.

 

Now, would you like to tell me raiders wont be over powered? 

 

Clearly these figures were chosen by someone who has never entered a pvp area.. or the feedback was given by people who play raiders and want to be stronger.

 

While we're at it, scouts are really weak, we would like a buff that gives 200% ap, we really need it "pls" gm "pls".


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#78 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:45 AM

The 25% mspd gives you approximately 130, which doesn't amount to much. I will agree that 50% add crit dmg and 30% crit down are slightly overkill though. But that's only up to a certain extent, the fact remains that they have to stay in combat all the time in order to keep it up.


Edited by jerremy, 12 March 2014 - 09:57 AM.

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#79 LexLoyalty

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:51 AM

Right now, as in the live server katar raiders are, imo well balanced they can beat some, lose to others, its really a close fight.

 

With this new update once fully charged (and with 350%+ aspeed it wont take many seconds) they will have 50% additional crit damage, 50% extra aspeed and 25% extra movespeed and their enemy will have 30% less critical rate.

 

Now, would you like to tell me raiders wont be over powered? 

 

Clearly these figures were chosen by someone who has never entered a pvp area.. or the feedback was given by people who play raiders and want to be stronger.

 

While we're at it, scouts are really weak, we would like a buff that gives 200% ap, we really need it "pls" gm "pls".

 

LOL your assumptions keep them to yourself thank you.

in order to get this --->>> 50% additional crit damage, 50% extra aspeed and 25% extra movespeed raiders remain with almost no active skills so it compensates perfectly. 


Edited by LexLoyalty, 12 March 2014 - 10:03 AM.

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#80 jacobpalmer

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:06 AM

The 25% mspd gives you approximately 130, which doesn't amount to much. I will agree that 50% add crit dmg and 30% crit down are slightly overkill though. But that's only up to a certain extent, the fact remains that they have to stay in combat all the time in order to keep it up.

 

 

LOL your assumption leave them to yourself thank you.

in order to get this --->>> 50% additional crit damage, 50% extra aspeed and 25% extra movespeed raiders remain with almost no active skills so it complaisances perfectly. 

 

Funny how both of you are / have raiders eh?  :thumb:

 

My char which currently beats raiders 9/10 times loses on pegasus  9/10 times ( I got lucky once and managed to kill him before he became stupidly strong). And that was when it was 25% aspeed and 25% critical damage. 


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#81 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

Yes, a mighty fine dual raider I have. Funny how you make assumptions that I play a katar raider and want it to be overpowered.


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#82 LexLoyalty

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:18 AM

Funny how both of you are / have raiders eh?  :thumb:

 

My char which currently beats raiders 9/10 times loses on pegasus  9/10 times ( I got lucky once and managed to kill him before he became stupidly strong). And that was when it was 25% aspeed and 25% critical damage. 

 

probably you got a champ and you are too pissed that you no longer have the upper hand over katar raiders at any given situation no more. 

Editted


Edited by ShazamO, 12 March 2014 - 12:12 PM.

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#83 ShazamO

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:16 PM

Please be sure to keep the talk about this topic. No need to slang personal insults at one another.


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#84 ChampPower

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:17 PM

My question is still standing. If you say raider is not too over powerful after the update, DO YOU HAVE ANY STRATEGY FOR OTHER CLASSES TO KILL IT? If you do, please share it.

Edited by ChampPower, 12 March 2014 - 12:18 PM.

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#85 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:30 PM

AoE's, CC like sleep/stun, cloak does not allow for a raider to hit much because it only lasts several auto attacks. Also a knight can counter raiders pretty easily, just use protection on who's getting attacked by raiders and it'll be fine. As a raider needs to target someone, taunt/sacrifice are incredibly effective. Gun bourgs are very effective at killing raiders as long as you time the decloak well. Crossbow scouts and dual raiders also counter a katar pretty easily. Not sure if you'd kill them but you sure as hell would stop them from doing much. If you're a cleric, sleep the raider. Even with the defense nerf, you can still tank a raider quite well. Just make sure to not let your health drop too low as a stun could very well kill you. If you're a mage, use a cha/dodge build with the wind tree/windwalker passive. Use the accu down single target skill on a raider, they're known for having very low accuracy and will miss you. Also cause of your high cha your dodge down is effective, and you don't necessarily have to see the raider (stealthed) to kill it because of AoE's. If you're a champ, any kind of champion has a dodge down and can use it, and you have pretty good base accuracy (especially two hand sword). In straight up combat, you should be able to handle. If the raider is hiding around, you have your AoE's. Battle clerics, same as normal clerics, sleep the raider and let him mind his own business.

 

The only classes which are really troubled by raiders would be a cannon bourg (who's bad in any 1v1 situation, not only to raiders), and a battle artisan (no decloak skill). The rest should be evenly matched or overpowering a raider in most group combat situations. If you're alone, a raider can and will most likely win as they are designed to be single target damage dealers/assassins.


Edited by jerremy, 12 March 2014 - 12:35 PM.

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#86 nooooodles

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

by the way, can artis finally have a decloak skill?


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#87 ChampPower

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:56 PM

AoE's, CC like sleep/stun, cloak does not allow for a raider to hit much because it only lasts several auto attacks. Also a knight can counter raiders pretty easily, just use protection on who's getting attacked by raiders and it'll be fine. As a raider needs to target someone, taunt/sacrifice are incredibly effective. Gun bourgs are very effective at killing raiders as long as you time the decloak well. Crossbow scouts and dual raiders also counter a katar pretty easily. Not sure if you'd kill them but you sure as hell would stop them from doing much. If you're a cleric, sleep the raider. Even with the defense nerf, you can still tank a raider quite well. Just make sure to not let your health drop too low as a stun could very well kill you. If you're a mage, use a cha/dodge build with the wind tree/windwalker passive. Use the accu down single target skill on a raider, they're known for having very low accuracy and will miss you. Also cause of your high cha your dodge down is effective, and you don't necessarily have to see the raider (stealthed) to kill it because of AoE's. If you're a champ, any kind of champion has a dodge down and can use it, and you have pretty good base accuracy (especially two hand sword). In straight up combat, you should be able to handle. If the raider is hiding around, you have your AoE's. Battle clerics, same as normal clerics, sleep the raider and let him mind his own business.

The only classes which are really troubled by raiders would be a cannon bourg (who's bad in any 1v1 situation, not only to raiders), and a battle artisan (no decloak skill). The rest should be evenly matched or overpowering a raider in most group combat situations. If you're alone, a raider can and will most likely win as they are designed to be single target damage dealers/assassins.

All of these suggestion will not work. Like I said, raider can get around these tactics easily. To use de cloak skill, you must have to take the skill with the sp. second, you have to use the de cloak skill with the most care because of the cool down. That would mean waiting for the first hit, but if you are waiting for the first hit, it would be over for you because the raider hit too fast with high damage and critical. The raider can run away at anytime it want too because they can out run anything, which you have planed for it. You can use sacrifice and taunt, but there will be a 20 second cool down. In that mean time, if the raider actively and manually click on the cleric or some class, which the raider wants to kill. It will be over for the cleric and that class if the cleric and class survive long enough for you to use scarifying and taunting in the first place. The same thing will happen with your Sea of AoE. The raider can hit you and run away before you can do any real damage to it. The cleric's sleeping skills may work if you have enough skill point to get it and if you do not get sleep, mute, and stun first. Remember, the raider will be much faster than it is after the update, and there is a 25 seconds cool down for the cleric sleeping skill. The raider is virtually INVINCIBLE after the update if you play it correctly.

Edited by ChampPower, 12 March 2014 - 01:01 PM.

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#88 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:03 PM

Like I said before, if the raider has to run away, it means he won't be able to fight. If you can force him to leave you've won the skirmish. Decloak has a long cooldown, but shorter than stealth/cloak. In fact, the bourg's decloak has only 10 seconds cooldown, while the raider has 40 something cooldown on stealth/cloak. And if you can't spare the 5sp on decloak (or even just one point if you don't feel like shortening cooldown) then yes, you're digging your own grave. Sacrifice is 20 seconds sure, but a melee knight has four taunts, three of which have only an 8 second cooldown. The crossbow knight has 3 taunts (at maximum, usually only one), sacrifice, taunt, and magic shot, with magic shot being a 5 second cooldown. So no, as a knight you can make a raider feel pain, running across the battle like a headless chicken. Also, because a raider is melee he can't possibly avoid AoE's like a spear champs 14-16m range, unless he's picking off people who stand away from the fight. If he gets up close he risks getting constant slept by sleep cloud from both clerics and artisans, and while their dodge is improved with the coming update, they still can't take a beating. You can dodge some more, but the fact remains that if a few hits land you're already dead. 


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#89 Soda

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:05 PM

What's starting to get annoying is that, people are making up these scenarios on their head, making it seem like what they visualize will actually happen in game which isnt true. You can try to come up with "oh alot of raiders can pwn in wars if they do this, mage will aoe the crap out of everyone blahblahbla". But like what Jeremy stated, there are ways to counter these "scenarios" that your trying to put up. People aren't dumb to just stand around in wars and just wait for everyone to die around them, of course if you don't do something then that's your problem in the first place.


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#90 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:08 PM

 People aren't dumb to just stand around in wars and just wait for everyone to die around them, of course if you don't do something then that's your problem in the first place.

Actually, there are people dumb enough to do that. 


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#91 ChampPower

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:52 PM

Like I said before, if the raider has to run away, it means he won't be able to fight. If you can force him to leave you've won the skirmish. Decloak has a long cooldown, but shorter than stealth/cloak. In fact, the bourg's decloak has only 10 seconds cooldown, while the raider has 40 something cooldown on stealth/cloak. And if you can't spare the 5sp on decloak (or even just one point if you don't feel like shortening cooldown) then yes, you're digging your own grave. Sacrifice is 20 seconds sure, but a melee knight has four taunts, three of which have only an 8 second cooldown. The crossbow knight has 3 taunts (at maximum, usually only one), sacrifice, taunt, and magic shot, with magic shot being a 5 second cooldown. So no, as a knight you can make a raider feel pain, running across the battle like a headless chicken. Also, because a raider is melee he can't possibly avoid AoE's like a spear champs 14-16m range, unless he's picking off people who stand away from the fight. If he gets up close he risks getting constant slept by sleep cloud from both clerics and artisans, and while their dodge is improved with the coming update, they still can't take a beating. You can dodge some more, but the fact remains that if a few hits land you're already dead.

You are assuming that you can survive the first attack by the raider, and you are assuming that you can click on the raider, and you are assuming that your skills can reach the raider. I am telling you, all clerics will be the first to die, then the remaining of your team will quickly die and following the clerics.
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#92 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:54 PM

You've made your points, I've made mine. I highly doubt raiders will be as overpowered as you think they are, but we'll see. War situations are more dynamic than "this class will always beat the other, the end." If anything, I feel the numbers of the changes made are slightly too high, but they're defnitely not invincible as you state they are.


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#93 plushmush

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:24 PM

Why Shamrock Hat isn't included in St. Patrick's Day Lucky Box item list...

 

hmmm... just wondering...

 

  :hmm: 

 

 

 


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#94 Ahya

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:19 PM

 

Berserk: I'm sensing the appropriate action would be more similar to sleep + rested buff. Innitially, the champ should receive full immunity, but after each stun / sleep is passified, the resistance should go down. Say upon entering berserk, 100% immunity, upon first attempted stun/sleep it is fully resisted. The next attempt success would be cut by 75%, then 50% then 25% then the benefit of berserk's immunity is gone. Similar to how Cloaking uses charges, and sleeping an eney -once the update is live- applied the rested benefit. 

 

 

Yes, I agree. And that the chances of resistance be cut down 25% every stun/sleep resisted, until the immunity is gone.

 

 

 

berserked champs..maybe but mages will get sliced and diced after this update in wars. 2 good raiders on em, forget it. The way they effect healing will lessen the aoe time to an extent aswell ~in theory~

 

lets see how it plays out . im keeping an eye on champs though

 

 

I'm keeping both eyes on champs. And btw, 2 good raiders on a mage, in wars, does not always mean the death of a mage. A mage must never stray outside the team, and if he does, yes, you're correct. But if he's smart enough to have allied raiders cloaked until enemy raiders hit, he can focus on AoEing while those allied raiders counter the attacking ones.

 

Although, it all depends on the play style of you and your allies. :)

 

Because the raider is too over power, and they cannot be killed. I can think up several strategy to kill 5 champs, 5 bourgeois, or 5 Mages, but I cannot do the same thing wither raider after the update. You would not be able to catch them, much less killing them, because you would have to catch them before killing them. If you have a strategy to deal with the raiders after the update, please share it.

 

A raider.. Can be killed.

 

My question is still standing. If you say raider is not too over powerful after the update, DO YOU HAVE ANY STRATEGY FOR OTHER CLASSES TO KILL IT? If you do, please share it.

 

A team of jerremy's 4 clerics standing beside mages and berserk champs would render 5 raiders' assault useless with their heals, sleep them all, coordinate the champs' mutes to prevent another stealth, use an allied dual raider to pin them all in place, and have the mage and berserk champs AoE the hell out of them. Especially if those raiders take one target each, it'll be pretty futile against those enemies. All those raiders on one target, they can maybe drop down a cleric's life fast, but since there are "allies", yes, the concept of allies, makes a cleric confident enough to pot up and wait for other clerics' heals. Then the team has recovered, and voila, counterattack. A raider's trap was sprung.

 

All of these suggestion will not work. Like I said, raider can get around these tactics easily. To use de cloak skill, you must have to take the skill with the sp. second, you have to use the de cloak skill with the most care because of the cool down. That would mean waiting for the first hit, but if you are waiting for the first hit, it would be over for you because the raider hit too fast with high damage and critical. The raider can run away at anytime it want too because they can out run anything, which you have planed for it. You can use sacrifice and taunt, but there will be a 20 second cool down. In that mean time, if the raider actively and manually click on the cleric or some class, which the raider wants to kill. It will be over for the cleric and that class if the cleric and class survive long enough for you to use scarifying and taunting in the first place. The same thing will happen with your Sea of AoE. The raider can hit you and run away before you can do any real damage to it. The cleric's sleeping skills may work if you have enough skill point to get it and if you do not get sleep, mute, and stun first. Remember, the raider will be much faster than it is after the update, and there is a 25 seconds cool down for the cleric sleeping skill. The raider is virtually INVINCIBLE after the update if you play it correctly.

 

Not all wars are running wars. And yes, we will be waiting for the first hit. Again, with jerremy's team of 4 clerics, a mage ,a champ, and a dual raider, it'll just be a futile attempt of a fast assassination.

 

And if you're going to point out a raider's "invincibility" in PVP, well, I tell you, a mage has been killing all but the best katar raiders he ever tried to fight with. Those best katar raiders? They're not even more than 3. And that's with a war build. How much more if that mage changed his build for 1v1 fights?

 

Although I respect your opinions, I completely disagree with them, and with making up scenarios in your mind that you haven't tried yet, and then arbitrarily saying that there's no counter to it. It's like saying that a mage without Cold Snap cannot counter a champ on berserk with its immunity, without even trying it yet.


Edited by Ahya, 12 March 2014 - 05:06 PM.

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#95 oReflexes

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:20 PM

That vote to kick in cd will suck.
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#96 Soda

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:22 PM

Actually, there are people dumb enough to do that. 

 

And they are called "Newbs", newbs that play the class that the "think" is OP and try to make it seem like they are good at it. People who play for personal benefit and shouts at their clerics in wars if they aren't healing them.


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#97 IAfjiBa

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:45 PM

I dont know, but I maybe missed this answer in the comments but...... what time does this update gonna happend? I know its today but time? :p_conf:  (Server time thanks  :p_smile: )


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#98 Infinity49

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:55 PM

I dont know, but I maybe missed this answer in the comments but...... what time does this update gonna happend? I know its today but time? :p_conf:  (Server time thanks  :p_smile: )

 

"Be sure to log off before 11:00AM PST on Thursday(03/13) for a Server Maintenance Roserians!"

 

I don't know what GMT you are, but for me i think i won't be able to play this night :P

 

To the GMs

 

"Bendersmom, the hat will be contained within the St. Patrick's day Lucky Box. I'm pretty sure we had it on sale last year as well too, but if not, that seems like a pretty bad oversight.  :( We'll make sure it's up this year though for sure. :)" - Leonis

 

I didn't see this hat in the update of the patch. Is this hat will be available in the box? (the only item why i would buy boxes!)


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#99 Genesis

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:29 AM

That vote to kick in cd will suck.

Just to clarify, the "Vote Kick Member" function will only be active in dungeons for now.  Updated patch notes to reflect that.
 

I have a question regarding [the Vote to Kick function]. How exactly will it work? What if it ends up in a tie? Will each character get a vote, or each person?

Updated the Game Arena wiki page with information about the Vote Kick Member function:
 
When you select the Vote to Kick option after selecting a player to kick, you are prompted to enter a reason why you want to kick that player, which is displayed to everyone in the group except for the player being voted on to kick. Everyone in the group is then asked to vote on whether or not the player should be kicked, except for the player being voted on (who automatically counts as a No vote), and the player who initiated the request to vote kick (who automatically counts as a Yes vote). If the majority votes Yes, the player is kicked, otherwise the player remains in the group.
  • Anyone in the group can use the Vote Kick Member function - you don't have to be the group leader to use it.
  • There must be at least 2 players in the group to use the Vote Kick Member function.
  • Voting will only pass when there is a majority vote, so a tie will not result in the player being kicked.
  • Similarly to the Kick Member function, Vote Kick Member can only be invoked once every 15 minutes by each player.

Edited by Genesis, 13 March 2014 - 12:57 AM.

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#100 Feuer

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:28 AM

by the way, can artis finally have a decloak skill?

 

Short answer, no.

 

Long answer:

Arti's are the BANE of all Raiders [Dual & Katar] The reason Artisans dont have a decloak is to give the raider atleast 1 chance to get away and stay away. Here's the the honest part though. That was the OLD reason, I'd honestly like to see how it plays out in the current game mechanics. But, you have to give a legitimate reason why they should. Leonis is normally very open to proposals as long as there is a legitimate and justified reason behind it. 


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