29 replies to this topic

[Adept7]

I think that implementing an offline mode to this game would only help to improve its playability. Just like the Phantasy Star Online games (and the soon to release PSO2), along with 90% of PC games, an offline mode would give people the ability to play solo when they do not have access to the internet. I can't believe I did not think of this sooner, but it is a great idea. Currently I don't have internet service that is reliable enough to play Dragon Saga without being disconnected every 15 minutes and this is quite frustrating as all I wish to do is solo some mission maps and gain some exp. I don't need to be online to do so. I think that if you were to supply an offline mode that it would be fairly simple to set it up so the game patches when connecting to online mode and updates the character data. I don't see a downside to this. All I see is the increased play time for the members of the Dragon Saga community, and that makes for a better happier community for you (Warp Portal). I am quite serious when I say that an offline mode would be a huge improvement to an already fantastic game. I highly urge the members of Warp Portal's staff to take this into careful consideration.

Thank you for your time.

[Rinnosuke]

easy to say no to

if an offline mode is installed
data will have to be saved somewhere other than server
since no longer it's not client-to-server connection
(you are offline)
so, it'd have to be stored on your computer
even if data is encrypted
that data is precious, and can be (will be) cracked
and subsequently edited in various ways
your level? exp, items, all that.
a CRC32 check could maybe stop script kiddies
but i would not take that chance as a company

PSO worked because it's on a console.
even if you had played PSO PC, you had known so many 'hackers' (i use term lightly, it's more like 'data editors') roamed about because they had access to data that defined our characters at a core attribute level
rather than simple options, which is usually client-side

[canajew]

Still like the idea

[Yurai]

Obviously will not work due to hackers being around.

[canajew]

Truly we need the community boost -.-

[GrapefruitGod]

I still play pso. The only versions of it that allow you to play offline are on the consoles; the pc versions are online only.

[Adept7]

I still play pso. The only versions of it that allow you to play offline are on the consoles; the pc versions are online only.

No You can play that PC version of PSO online and offline. Look for the Shthack server and enjoy.


As for the hacking argument...there are hacks for this game now. For every version of it. Just because something is server sided doesn't mean that people can't hack it. It becomes a question of morality. I think that the positives of this will greatly outnumber the "drawbacks" Besides all warp has to do is the same thing Nintendo does with Pokemon online play. If someone connects to the internet and their character data has been tampered with the character gets locked out. Not deleted just unusable corrupted data. It will forever eat up a spot on the character list and be unusable both online and offline.

Implementing an offline most will make this game more playable. For instance, right now the server is undergoing maintenance if there were an offline mode we could all be soloing and gaining experience or completing quests by ourselves, then when we connect back to the server for online play it will update everything. It is all a matter of communication between the server and client.
In order to sell things on the market you would still have to go online, and you would have to be online to participate in events, so it wouldn't erase the need for it.

I feel that it is something that is worth looking into. Hackers shouldn't be an issue.

[Maronu]

No You can play that PC version of PSO online and offline. Look for the Shthack server and enjoy.


As for the hacking argument...there are hacks for this game now. For every version of it. Just because something is server sided doesn't mean that people can't hack it. It becomes a question of morality. I think that the positives of this will greatly outnumber the "drawbacks" Besides all warp has to do is the same thing Nintendo does with Pokemon online play. If someone connects to the internet and their character data has been tampered with the character gets locked out. Not deleted just unusable corrupted data. It will forever eat up a spot on the character list and be unusable both online and offline.

Implementing an offline most will make this game more playable. For instance, right now the server is undergoing maintenance if there were an offline mode we could all be soloing and gaining experience or completing quests by ourselves, then when we connect back to the server for online play it will update everything. It is all a matter of communication between the server and client.
In order to sell things on the market you would still have to go online, and you would have to be online to participate in events, so it wouldn't erase the need for it.

I feel that it is something that is worth looking into. Hackers shouldn't be an issue.

Being server sided doesn't make it impossible to hack, but it makes it much more difficult. Modifying data that is server sided could also result in legal consequences. It's not a question of morality. It is a question of ability and potential risk. How does Pokemon tell that character data has been tampered with? Is the method fool proof? The benefit of being able to play offline is being able to play more (solo only) and with less lag, but unless there is some sort of fool proof system to stop hackers, you are talking about something that would break the game.

[Adept7]

Being server sided doesn't make it impossible to hack, but it makes it much more difficult. Modifying data that is server sided could also result in legal consequences. It's not a question of morality. It is a question of ability and potential risk. How does Pokemon tell that character data has been tampered with? Is the method fool proof? The benefit of being able to play offline is being able to play more (solo only) and with less lag, but unless there is some sort of fool proof system to stop hackers, you are talking about something that would break the game.

In Pokemon if someone hacks a Pokemon to give it stats that are outside of the character specifications (i.e. stats that it cannot normally have or with moves and abilities that it cannot have) it will "bad egg" the Pokemon upon connecting to the internet (either the GTS or online battle). What a "bad egg" does it it turns your Pokemon int oan egg that cannot hatch and cannot be removed from the part. This makes your 6 Pokemon party a 5 Pokemon part or less. The only way to get rid of this is to restart your game. Also if you hack too much it will corrupt your cartage, and yes this is fool proof. There is no work around or hack that "un-bad eggs" a Pokemon.

If Warp were to implement something like this then an offline mode would be a non-issue. It would increase playability and increase the overall community size.

Edited by Adept7, 04 November 2010 - 03:21 PM.

[GrapefruitGod]

Schthack was the version I was talking about actually lol

[Adept7]

Schthack was the version I was talking about actually lol

I have an account on Schthack and can play offline. There is a separate set of files that you have to download for it though.

Obviously will not work due to hackers being around.

There are hackers now. In every version of the game. A quick google search will show the hacks that are available. If Warp made an offline mode and people made hacks that warp would just have to patch the exploit just like they will have to do with the online mode. All the hackers will do is enable warp to fix more bugs and exploits faster. In a way they are helping WarpPortal by finding wholes in their system.

Edited by Adept7, 04 November 2010 - 04:22 PM.

[Maronu]

In Pokemon if someone hacks a Pokemon to give it stats that are outside of the character specifications (i.e. stats that it cannot normally have or with moves and abilities that it cannot have) it will "bad egg" the Pokemon upon connecting to the internet (either the GTS or online battle). What a "bad egg" does it it turns your Pokemon int oan egg that cannot hatch and cannot be removed from the part. This makes your 6 Pokemon party a 5 Pokemon part or less. The only way to get rid of this is to restart your game. Also if you hack too much it will corrupt your cartage, and yes this is fool proof. There is no work around or hack that "un-bad eggs" a Pokemon.

If Warp were to implement something like this then an offline mode would be a non-issue. It would increase playability and increase the overall community size.

What would prevent someone from giving their character stats that are within the character specifications (i.e. changing equipment options to better options that are possible to get, increasing number of skill points, duplicating items, etc). If it only checks when you go online, couldn't you create a weapon with impossible stats, use it for whatever you want, and simple dispose of the weapon when you go online. What about gold? You could still benefit by changing your gold, even if you didn't exceed the maximum value. Because you can't surpass certain value, it is impossible to change anything? Is offline mode really just a mode to mess around, without having any of your data saved at all? -confused-

[Tundra]

It can't be done for various reasons. This is an MMO on a PC, which can only be monitored so much. To limit cheating, it can't be done. Otherwise, hackers could use hacks to level themselves up without ever being caught. However, they can not edit the information directly (which quite a few people think). It's very easy to set up something that disallows outside editing. Kind of like a very sensitive bomb that goes off even when somebody just opens the door to the room it's in. But really, that type of hacking would be the least of their worries (since I highly doubt "hackers" would have any idea how characters are even coded).

[Adept7]

The issue of hacking is one that exists right now. If you want I can post links to all of the various hacks that are out for this game and it's other versions. Things like monster auto death in mission maps, "flying", and mob pull all exist right now. Any and all of them can be used to hack yourself to a higher lvl in the online mode.

As for a gold hack, if warp locks the amount of gold and doesn't enable the ratio to change i.e. gold never fluctuates then there would be no coding to alter in order to change that. Also if the files for the offline mode were password protected then they could not be accessed. Not unless the "hacker" (which would only know how to alter code) can also crack a randomized 22 character long alphanumeric password.

And again any exploits found would be patched making a more secure game for the rest of us.

[Yurai]

The issue of hacking is one that exists right now. If you want I can post links to all of the various hacks that are out for this game and it's other versions. Things like monster auto death in mission maps, "flying", and mob pull all exist right now. Any and all of them can be used to hack yourself to a higher lvl in the online mode.

As for a gold hack, if warp locks the amount of gold and doesn't enable the ratio to change i.e. gold never fluctuates then there would be no coding to alter in order to change that. Also if the files for the offline mode were password protected then they could not be accessed. Not unless the "hacker" (which would only know how to alter code) can also crack a randomized 22 character long alphanumeric password.

And again any exploits found would be patched making a more secure game for the rest of us.

Please do post as I guarantee none of them will work. I hope you realize that they would not work across other versions due to different offsets and addresses. A 22 character long alphanumeric password is not secure at all. Also, you do not need to decompile the actual data files in order to hack the game. Obviously, you really don't realize how broken an offline client would be, and the ridiculous equips that would come along as a result of that. In addition, any activity online is logged and can be checked by the GM's. There would be no such thing on an offline client, since no data is being sent to the server, so this is yet another reason why this won't work.

[GrapefruitGod]

I have an account on Schthack and can play offline. There is a separate set of files that you have to download for it though.




There are hackers now. In every version of the game. A quick google search will show the hacks that are available. If Warp made an offline mode and people made hacks that warp would just have to patch the exploit just like they will have to do with the online mode. All the hackers will do is enable warp to fix more bugs and exploits faster. In a way they are helping WarpPortal by finding wholes in their system.

This may be true but, you're allowed to hack pso pc. Blue Burst? Absolutely not

[Tundra]

this won't work.

tl;dr version

[Rinnosuke]

a randomized 22 character long alphanumeric password.

good times with rainbow tables
brute force the s*$@ out of it
drink cider from a lemon

anyway, this idea is literally just going to attract flies to the corpse
a lot of mmo hackers program dll injections to get what they want
generally speaking, most people don't have the knowledge to do so
by having direct access to said data files stored on your computer
(and, hell, maybe even someone releases a cracker to decrypt all that data and edit it)
wouldn't you think more people would try to have fun with it?

i mean, s$*^, i would

SERIOUSLY, DATA IS A LIABILITY
anyway i'm done

[Adept7]

Please do post as I guarantee none of them will work. I hope you realize that they would not work across other versions due to different offsets and addresses. A 22 character long alphanumeric password is not secure at all. Also, you do not need to decompile the actual data files in order to hack the game. Obviously, you really don't realize how broken an offline client would be, and the ridiculous equips that would come along as a result of that. In addition, any activity online is logged and can be checked by the GM's. There would be no such thing on an offline client, since no data is being sent to the server, so this is yet another reason why this won't work.

Here you go (lets not post websites to hacks) they currently have hacks for Gpot and IAH and old ones for THQ posted. They are working on hacks for this new version as we speak. And I can guarantee you that they work because I used them in Gpot just to see how they worked, if at all.

Hackers are going to hack with or without an online mode. Fact is that with one we can all play longer and without lag and server crashes and downtimes and hours of a patch not working because something got screwed up.

Again, I think that the positives out weigh the negatives. After all if they didn't no one would make video games anymore. Hell you can get PSP 360 PS3 Wii DS and PC games for free now! You can mod your system and download the games and never pay for them. All PC games can be hacked and levels can be modded. I guess by your logic the threat of hackers should make all game developers quit and not make any games anymore. Because that is your argument in a nut shell.

*edit*
Here are more hacks for other versions of this game: (lets not post websites to hacks)
I guess they should shut the whole game down because a lot of these are pretty broken.

*Disclaimer*
I do NOT endorse any of these hacks. I am merely using the existence of them to prove my point.

[Yurai]

Here you go (lets not post websites to hacks) they currently have hacks for Gpot and IAH and old ones for THQ posted. They are working on hacks for this new version as we speak. And I can guarantee you that they work because I used them in Gpot just to see how they worked, if at all.

Hackers are going to hack with or without an online mode. Fact is that with one we can all play longer and without lag and server crashes and downtimes and hours of a patch not working because something got screwed up.

Again, I think that the positives out weigh the negatives. After all if they didn't no one would make video games anymore. Hell you can get PSP 360 PS3 Wii DS and PC games for free now! You can mod your system and download the games and never pay for them. All PC games can be hacked and levels can be modded. I guess by your logic the threat of hackers should make all game developers quit and not make any games anymore. Because that is your argument in a nut shell.

*edit*
Here are more hacks for other versions of this game: (lets not post websites to hacks)I guess they should shut the whole game down because a lot of these are pretty broken.

*Disclaimer*
I do NOT endorse any of these hacks. I am merely using the existence of them to prove my point.

Please post a video of you making this work. Everything you linked is complete garbage.

[Adept7]

Please post a video of you making this work. Everything you linked is complete garbage.

I'm not reinstalling Gpot just to show you that you're wrong. If you want to remain ignorant to the fact that people are hacking right now then that is fine by me.
The absence of an offline mode does not mean that the game cannot be hacked.
If you want to try them out them by all means go for it.

My point remains that the possibility of hack, mods, and bots should not discourage game developers. If it did then there would be no more video games.

If a player, let's say you Yurai, wants to make a new character for offline mode and brake your stats or equipment to make yourself godly then by all means go for it, but if you try to use that character online then the system will recognize that your character specifications are outside of the boundaries of the game and your character will be locked out, or you will possibly be banned.

There are ways to punish hackers.

[Maronu]

Let me sum up your arguments.

You said yourself that you have hacked on Gpotato. You defend hackers and say hackers help make the game more secure by finding holes that need to be fixed, and this somehow makes the game more secure for everyone not abusing exploits or hacks. Thank you criminals. Because of you we have law enforcement and I feel more secure! Poor logic.

You tell us how people are hacking the game now. You post links to hacks and say how it is possible to mod levels, and you name different hacks. You say hacking is a question of morality rather than difficulty, yet you used hacks on Gpotato even if it was just "to play around with them." I guess you are either saying that you are immoral or that using hacks is acceptable. You name specific hacks and you talk about new hacks being developed right now. You try to argue that hacking offline would be just as difficult as hacking this game online and that it would be no different, or you claim that hacking online is easy (not sure what your argument is), but Yurai was right in asking you to prove your claim. You twisted and embellished his words. You repeatedly say that if we had an offline version the pros would outweigh the cons. Perhaps for you that statement would be true, but a lot of other people seem to disagree. Unless you want to provide video proof to prove your claims, I don't think there is very much more for us to discuss.

Spoiler

[quote name='Adept7' date='05 November 2010 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1288911879' post='178634']
there are hacks for this game now. For every version of it. Just because something is server sided doesn't mean that people can't hack it.

Implementing an offline most will make this game more playable.

then when we connect back to the server for online play it will update everything.

Hackers shouldn't be an issue.
[/quote]


[quote name='Adept7' date='05 November 2010 - 02:19 AM' timestamp='1288919946' post='179149']

There are hackers now. In every version of the game. A quick google search will show the hacks that are available. If Warp made an offline mode and people made hacks that warp would just have to patch the exploit just like they will have to do with the online mode. All the hackers will do is enable warp to fix more bugs and exploits faster. In a way they are helping WarpPortal by finding wholes in their system.
[/quote]


[quote name='Adept7' date='05 November 2010 - 03:52 AM' timestamp='1288925554' post='179420']
The issue of hacking is one that exists right now. If you want I can post links to all of the various hacks that are out for this game and it's other versions. Things like monster auto death in mission maps, "flying", and mob pull all exist right now. Any and all of them can be used to hack yourself to a higher lvl in the online mode.

As for a gold hack, if warp locks the amount of gold and doesn't enable the ratio to change i.e. gold never fluctuates then there would be no coding to alter in order to change that. Also if the files for the offline mode were password protected then they could not be accessed. Not unless the "hacker" (which would only know how to alter code) can also crack a randomized 22 character long alphanumeric password.

And again any exploits found would be patched making a more secure game for the rest of us.
[/quote]


[quote name='Adept7' date='05 November 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1288983103' post='180806']
Here you go (removed) they currently have hacks for Gpot and IAH and old ones for THQ posted. They are working on hacks for this new version as we speak. And I can guarantee you that they work because I used them in Gpot just to see how they worked, if at all.

Hackers are going to hack with or without an online mode.

Again, I think that the positives out weigh the negatives. After all if they didn't no one would make video games anymore. Hell you can get PSP 360 PS3 Wii DS and PC games for free now! You can mod your system and download the games and never pay for them. All PC games can be hacked and levels can be modded. I guess by your logic the threat of hackers should make all game developers quit and not make any games anymore. Because that is your argument in a nut shell.

*edit*
Here are more hacks for other versions of this game: removed
I guess they should shut the whole game down because a lot of these are pretty broken.

*Disclaimer*
I do NOT endorse any of these hacks. I am merely using the existence of them to prove my point.
[/quote

Edited by Sakana, 12 November 2010 - 11:40 PM.

[Adept7]

The simple truth is that when a hole in the system security is found the developers patch the exploits. Its the same reason that large corporations employ hackers to hack their security, doing so makes it stronger. Just because tjere is no offline mode doesn't mean there won't be hacks. Just like modding a PSP or jailbraking an iphone just because you're not supposed to it doesn't mean people won't do it. The same goes for other things like downloading music off the internet. It all falls under the same umbrella and yet I am sure that everyone on these forums has downloaded music offline or in some way broken anti priracy laws. I guarentee it.

An offline mode would be hackable offline but those hacks wouldn't be taken online. An example of this would be Halo. People can hack offline but if they try to log into xbox live with hacks enabled or hacked weapons they get banned and can't play anymore. You are failing to think outside the box.

As for twisting words around I believe you are guilty or the same thing. And me making a video of myself using hacks would prove only that there are hacks and that I am, as you say, immoral. I don't know why you felt the need to name call, but I stopped doing that in grade school so can we please go back to an adult disscussion? Thank you.

[Maronu]

The simple truth is that when a hole in the system security is found the developers patch the exploits. Its the same reason that large corporations employ hackers to hack their security, doing so makes it stronger. Just because tjere is no offline mode doesn't mean there won't be hacks. Just like modding a PSP or jailbraking an iphone just because you're not supposed to it doesn't mean people won't do it. The same goes for other things like downloading music off the internet. It all falls under the same umbrella and yet I am sure that everyone on these forums has downloaded music offline or in some way broken anti priracy laws. I guarentee it.

What do the vulnerabilities need to be fixed if no one exploits them? The reason they have to be fixed is because they get exploited. It doesn't matter if you have strong security if no one is trying to break that security. Maybe Gravity or Barunson should employ hackers to help upgrade their security, but as far as your argument goes, this is a moot point.

An offline mode would be hackable offline but those hacks wouldn't be taken online. An example of this would be Halo. People can hack offline but if they try to log into xbox live with hacks enabled or hacked weapons they get banned and can't play anymore. You are failing to think outside the box.

As for twisting words around I believe you are guilty or the same thing. And me making a video of myself using hacks would prove only that there are hacks and that I am, as you say, immoral. I don't know why you felt the need to name call, but I stopped doing that in grade school so can we please go back to an adult disscussion? Thank you.

Actually the morality part is from your own post. You already claimed that you used hacks on gPotato. You just claimed that posting a video of yourself hacking would make you immoral, and yet you already claimed that you used hacks. I don't think I'm twisting anything. I'm just pointing out obvious contradictions and questioning your motives. I'm sorry if you see that as name calling or being immature, but stating how hackers are helpful and that you hacked on gpotato does not help your argument any.

I wasn't trying to attack your morality or call you immature, so I don't know why you are now calling me names. You did have a few valid points, but imo you really shot your own argument.

It's like how you use of an "everyone does it argument" to justify breaking anti piracy laws on a public forum, and then suggest that I'm childish. I'm sorry I haven't used "an everyone does it argument" since gradeschool. I'm just defending myself like you are, but if that is being immature or childish, I guess we are both guilty. Now back to "adult" discussion.

You can provide a lot of examples, but I would think having an offline mode would make it much easier to develop hacks and make the game easier to hack. Also, security measures to prevent hacking the offline mode might be needed, additional encryption, etc might cost money. Knowing Barunson, who knows if they would even bother to make offline mode difficult to hack. Halo and pokemon are more popular games then Dragon Saga, and the companies who make them have larger budgets.

Sure, an offline mode might be nice, but if it makes the game easier to hack, which might be the case because their is no way to monitor what people do in offline mode, then I really don't see it being worth it. Offline is like a mischief testing zone. A place where it is easier to avoid consequences. Besides, we have more important issues like class imbalance. The solution to the lag and disconnections isn't to create an offline mode where people can play by themselves. It's to fix the lag and disconnections. If there wasn't lag and maintenance concluded during the specified time, then having an offline mode would only get you 4 more hours of playtime per week. The point of spending money on the game is to get an advantage or cute items to show off to your friends. I want to play with other people, not by myself. If I was playing alone, I wouldn't spend money on this game. Even if online mode doesn't lead to hacking, 4 hours of extra playtime on Thursday is nothing. Better solution, fix the lag and disconnection problems. Then we can all play together and their isn't any reason for an offline mode. That way the people who think it may lead to additional hacking have nothing to worry about.

Even if there is nothing to worry about, I'm sure people will still worry, and some people will be unhappy with the decision. Not worth it imo.

Edited by Maronu, 05 November 2010 - 04:12 PM.

[Adept7]

I do understand and agree with you on many points. It would be easier to hack an offline mode, and there are ways to make it harder to hack offline, but it would be easier and cheaper to make it so players could not bring hacked data into the online mode. I also understand that it would be better to fix the problems at hand before thinking about making an offline mode. I agree with that too; however, I am not just talking about the 4 hours of server maintenance. I am also talking about times when you do not have internet access. One could use the offline mode when no one is online to play with, or let's say that someone is having an issue logging into the online mode (Maybe the servers crashed like they did last week or the ISP got screwed up) players wouldn't lose hours of play time because of it.

I do understand that some people could take advantage of this and make hacks for the game. You all must understand that the absence of an offline mode does not mean that hacks will not be created. Somewhere in the world a bored Filipino kid is probably cracking the coding on this version of the game as this conversation is going on.

The possibility of hacks should not be a deterrent. If it was then all video game development would stop.

All I am saying, and I do not think that anyone can disagree, is that there are plus sides to an offline mode. Even if you personally do nolt think that it would be a good idea, there are still notable plus sides.