141 replies to this topic

[ChocoVivi]

IF you manage to get them to land. We (all classes minus sin/rogue?) miss insanely in there. Hence the need to fix hit/etc before messing with anything else.

A friend of mine just joined this game, lvl 34 priest. He has no problem reaching round 4~5 in colo. Given that two of the DOTs are instant cast, trying a few more times wouldn't be that bad imho. AND hit/dodge formula has always been the top of everyone's wish list, but it depends on how long it'll take the devs to find a solution to it.

 

What if priests have two different weapons. like bible for dps skills and mace for support trees =)

or

make middle tree as a prerequisite to dps and support tree. must have at least level 2 skills from middle tree to get either dps or support so that spending skill points will be tighter.

or

dps skills depend on str, support on int

=)

haha interesting idea~ but no not str XDD cuz then it'll take out "hybrid" priests.

[asabayou]

A friend of mine just joined this game, lvl 34 priest. He has no problem reaching round 4~5 in colo. Given that two of the DOTs are instant cast, trying a few more times wouldn't be that bad imho. AND hit/dodge formula has always been the top of everyone's wish list, but it depends on how long it'll take the devs to find a solution to it.

 

haha interesting idea~ but no not str XDD cuz then it'll take out "hybrid" priests.

 

 yeah i think our dots are fine. i did colo earlier i only had dots and ME and don't have RoG and chain stun. I reached last round having 2 kills at most. I felt pretty balanced lol.

 

haha i thought about monk's spiritual cadence and sorc's emblems when I was thinking of ideas XD. What if priests had those kind of skills? =D

Edited by asabayou, 24 March 2014 - 06:07 PM.

[KnightOf0]

If we can agree that no nerf until hit/dodge is fixed, I would have nothing to add.

 

It is the other classes or their representatives here who is trying to push for a nerf before any primary and secondary fixes that is fuelling the discussion.  

 

 

 

3. Most VCRs aren't p2w, we've just been here longer. All of my gear is +0 except for a +10 weapon. If you want us to consider casuals of your class, then you have to consider casuals of other classes. And then you have to consider dedicated players who understand a class' weaknesses and strengths.

 

This is the problem I mentioned, nothing objective will come out simply due to the degree of difference in power even in the same class.  I say I miss a lot of dots/stuns then someone at the top of the priest chain said they always hit no problem, well how is that going to prove any point when both scenarios are true.  You can't expect everyone to put all their pts into AGI to match the result, PvE don't need the extra AGI.  Again, hit/dodge problem.  Every post is about this, fix it then we can talk about nerf.

 

 

[Baddiez]

How about we do some testing in gray master rank d armour to see what happens when a priest faces off against any other class in the same gear.

[Sestuplo]

How about we do some testing in gray master rank d armour to see what happens when a priest faces off against any other class in the same gear.

 

YEAH I'M DOWN FOR IT, SIGN ME UP COACH

[Turniper]

How about we do some testing in gray master rank d armour to see what happens when a priest faces off against any other class in the same gear.

 

I was doing this with storm and riddle earlier. Storm still beat me unless I could manage to get a brutal strike hit in.

 

But yeah, lets do this some more xD

Edited by Turniper, 24 March 2014 - 07:18 PM.

[DarkKurayami]

Wasn't saying unable to get to the later rounds, I too, when get full room in colo, get to those rounds with the DoTs and whatnots, its just the hit rate is annoying, have to chase some people around a lot to just get a DoT to land whilst avoiding guild groups in there.

 

Although in average our DoTs in a sense are fine, its the other classes that need theirs fixed first (rangers, Cres - being some that need it the most).

[DuBisk]

I thought it was obvious, but let's make it clear: equality of conditions is a basic premise for discussing about class balance. I think many of you guys are making suppositions based upon WoE fights, although WoE is probably the worst map to make suppositions about class balance. It is my belief that PvP should be analysed aside from PvE, since these are 2 completely different styles of playing, and there's probably only a small percentage of players interested in PvP problems. What we should focus on is skill reworking, in my opinion, as the priest class has a lot of useless skills at the current state of the game. I believe that our dps in PvE is just fine, we deal a decent amount of damage, but almost any class can surpass us even with a weaker equipment.

As far as heals:

 

-Highness heal: crits are ridiculously high, I think that's because of meditatio: 0,39% per HIT is way too much, it should be decreased at least at 0.20%. This skill is what erased FS priests from the game, if a skill needs to be nerfed, well, this is the one.

-I see no point in wasting skill points in sanctuary, the amount of HP healed is lower than HH and it's too slow and uncomfortable, it was priests' lifesaver once, and now it's a shame to see this skill unused.

-Same goes for Sacrament, who needs 10% heal power when you can heal over 100k crit with HH? People just prefer to get more dps.

-Same for Coluceo Heal, you can full your HP with HH, so this skill has not a point anymore.

-Although somebody still uses it, I wouldn't spend my skill points in assumptio either, as we have shield runes now, and when you get a lot of attacks it activates if you have a good rate.

 

Support tree:

-Agi up: adding a 2% vigor,haste and cast speed buff per level would incite people to use it, maybe.

-Superagium: We don't need haste.

-Angelus: Why does this skill even exist? I think nobody ever used it, it would be nice if it was 3% defense rate per level, maybe.

-Recovery: Same as angelus, changing it to a dispell like the one of SMs would be nice.

 

Attack tree:

-Lex Divina: Nice try, but this is still useless. How am I supposed to know when a target is below 20% of his HP?

-Dots: I agree with VCRs that Adoramus should be the most powerful of dots, but I think the overall damage should remain the same.

-Judex: We should wait for stat balance before discussing about this skill. I have a feel it might be our only hope to win some PvPs when the agi formula will be fixed (hopefully).

 

Edited by DuBisk, 25 March 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[asabayou]

 

-Highness heal: crits are ridiculously high, I think that's because of meditatio: 0,39% per HIT is way too much, it should be decreased at least at 0.20%. This skill is what erased FS priests from the game, if a skill needs to be nerfed, well, this is the one.

-I see no point in wasting skill points in sanctuary, the amount of HP healed is lower than HH and it's too slow and uncomfortable, it was priests' lifesaver once, and now it's a shame to see this skill unused.

-Same goes for Sacrament, who needs 10% heal power when you can heal over 100k crit with HH? People just prefer to get more dps.

-Same for Coluceo Heal, you can full your HP with HH, so this skill has not a point anymore.

-Although somebody still uses it, I wouldn't spend my skill points in assumptio either, as we have shield runes now, and when you get a lot of attacks it activates if you have a good rate.

 

 

 

assumptio is very nice stack it with the shield rune = 70% dmg reduction

Edited by asabayou, 25 March 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[DuBisk]

well i still use sanc and coluceo sometimes to save cooldown and be lazy ;D (could come in handy in pvp)

 

assumptio is very nice stack it with the shield rune = 70% dmg reduction

 

I don't really see why you would use sanc, you can heal your whole party with HH better without being stuck for 10 seconds.

 Coluceo can be handy in pvp yeah, but its cooldown is too long, unless you put 5 points on it (which is a waste imo) and still, the cd on HH is kinda low and you can full your HP with it, so I think this is kinda useless too.

As far as assumptio, yeah it may still have some use, but it's definitely not as useful as it was once. Also, at least 4 skill points for a decent protection and a long cd, definitely not worth it. All of these skills may be useful again if just HH was not that OP, that's my point.

[asabayou]

yea nvm sanc haha

[flukeSG2]

This has turned into a fun topic. Too bad I can't comment more being stuck at work...

[KayleePepper]

All I see are PVP/endgame discussions. Please take into account new/casual/low-level players and those who rarely play PvP. They get affected by these nerfs too.

 

Does everyone here agree that leveling our class from 1-50 is the hardest or one of the hardest among all classes? That's why pre-AoV there's always a shortage of priests for dungeons and raids (N>Priest and go!) because leveling a priest (especially FS) is more tedious and boring than the other classes. Nerfing our DOTs will only make it harder for our class PVE-wise... grinding, farming, doing quests that requires DPS, etc. 

 

So I propose this. Since no one thinks that a priest's damage at PVE is OP, how about limiting the nerf of our DOTs damage and Judex CD at PvP only? Is that possible to implement? I mean to have a different damage and cooldown for PvP? Like how range and magical attacks are nerfed at RO1 WOE?

Edited by KayleePepper, 26 March 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[7517130609154355683]

I think they can only equalize stats in PvP, not change your skill levels (which is all you really have to work with in PvP).  Don't implement new things, since it'll most likely create 10 bugs per 1 new thing implemented right now.

 

Also, no need to fix hit/dodge before nerfing OP skills.  When hit/dodge gets fixed, OP skills will just become MORE OP, so why not fix things we can fix now instead of waiting.  Skill fixes only involve modifier numbers (ie - 250% of matk -> 200% of matk), whereas hit/dodge will be a larger issue to fix since if it's done wrong, it can mess up a lot more than just some DoTs...   I'd imagine that they need to make a formula that will.... nevermind, I digress...

[Sestuplo]

Also, no need to fix hit/dodge before nerfing OP skills.  When hit/dodge gets fixed, OP skills will just become MORE OP, so why not fix things we can fix now instead of waiting.  Skill fixes only involve modifier numbers (ie - 250% of matk -> 200% of matk), whereas hit/dodge will be a larger issue to fix since if it's done wrong, it can mess up a lot more than just some DoTs...   I'd imagine that they need to make a formula that will.... nevermind, I digress...

 

Because you don't want to over nerf a skill, which is a possibility when two things are broken.

[Chocs]

The reason why those strong Priest DoTs are so effective is because you only need them to hit once to do massive damage over time. Two of them are instant cast and all of them have no cooldown, making a single hit relatively easy to pull off. On the other hand regular skills are constantly subject to the crappy hit/dodge formula.

 

Meaning normal skill attacks will benefit much more from the hit/dodge fix than some strong DoTs. I say leave the DoTs until hit rate is fixed.

[kimsera]

Even if you fix the hitrate, the problem is that 5s stun. You will be locked in place, with hammers flung at you, pimp slapped, and burned by dots. +_+

 

A-And unless something is done, it'll land easier than ever... *cough* lower stun duration to 3s*cough*

Edited by kimsera, 26 March 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[ChocoVivi]

All I see are PVP/endgame discussions. Please take into account new/casual/low-level players and those who rarely play PvP. They get affected by these nerfs too.

 

Does everyone here agree that leveling our class from 1-50 is the hardest or one of the hardest among all classes? That's why pre-AoV there's always a shortage of priests for dungeons and raids (N>Priest and go!) because leveling a priest (especially FS) is more tedious and boring than the other classes. Nerfing our DOTs will only make it harder for our class PVE-wise... grinding, farming, doing quests that requires DPS, etc. 

 

So I propose this. Since no one thinks that a priest's damage at PVE is OP, how about limiting the nerf of our DOTs damage and Judex CD at PvP only? Is that possible to implement? I mean to have a different damage and cooldown for PvP? Like how range and magical attacks are nerfed at RO1 WOE?

It was hard pre-AoV, but fairly easy post AoV. I have a newbie priest friend who just joined and he thinks the DOTs are really OP too lol He can solo dungeons too XD (I did not give him any fancy costumes or anything~)

 

Because you don't want to over nerf a skill, which is a possibility when two things are broken.

Well we were over buffed about 3 months ago O_O...

 

The reason why those strong Priest DoTs are so effective is because you only need them to hit once to do massive damage over time. Two of them are instant cast and all of them have no cooldown, making a single hit relatively easy to pull off. On the other hand regular skills are constantly subject to the crappy hit/dodge formula.

 

Meaning normal skill attacks will benefit much more from the hit/dodge fix than some strong DoTs. I say leave the DoTs until hit rate is fixed.

^+1. But it will take a long time for them to fix hit/dodge. So I think we should at least do something before it actually get fixed.

 

Even if you fix the hitrate, the problem is that 5s stun. You will be locked in place, with hammers flung at you, pimp slapped, and burned by dots. +_+

 

A-And unless something is done, it'll land easier than ever... *cough* lower stun duration to 3s*cough*

I really want to implement the iron will thing guardianTK mentioned. But lowering stun duration to 3s sounds like a really easy fix for the devs to do XD

[KnightOf0]

 

^+1. But it will take a long time for them to fix hit/dodge. So I think we should at least do something before it actually get fixed.

 

 

Why you have to "think we should do something"?  I don't see any reason in that.  

 

Why we can't just wait until they fix their hit/dodge then take into account all classes at the point and restart this nerf/buff discussion on skills.  It has been mentioned at least 10 times in here that doing the "balancing" when things are broken will not give the desired result later when things are fixed.

 

If anything, it will take equally long (or longer) to fix us if doing anything now ends up over-nerfing when combined with other unknown class-wide fixes in the primary and secondary stats.

 

I disagree that hit/dodge fix will benefits us (only), because in that case we will die even faster than now if everything hits including all the high damage, 5-sec stuns and 1-shot skills of other classes. 

 

 

*cough* lower stun duration to 3s*cough*

 

 

^ That's something easy to do and will make those rangers that can't kill priests happier.  Putting the skill back to pre-aov, only increase % damage each level and not the stun duration.  Nothing wrong with going back to the days when everyone have lvl 1 Judex that give a 3 secs stun.  That doesn't affect PvE as much, straight forward nerf no affecting other skills unlike the VCR suggestion.  Just shows how AoV is broken.

[ChocoVivi]

Why you have to "think we should do something"?  I don't see any reason in that.  

 

Why we can't just wait until they fix their hit/dodge then take into account all classes at the point and restart this nerf/buff discussion on skills.  It has been mentioned at least 10 times in here that doing the "balancing" when things are broken will not give the desired result later when things are fixed.

 

If anything, it will take equally long (or longer) to fix us if doing anything now ends up over-nerfing when combined with other unknown class-wide fixes in the primary and secondary stats.

 

I disagree that hit/dodge fix will benefits us (only), because in that case we will die even faster than now if everything hits including all the high damage, 5-sec stuns and 1-shot skills of other classes. 

 

Like i said we were over buffed since around 3 months ago. And trust me, it's way easier to buff than to nerf (as you can see lol), so you don't really need to worry about it when the class-wide fixes come XD

 

I could totally lay back, ignore all the "your dots hurt too much" and just let us stay OP, but I know it's not right for hybrid priests to do so well in both DPS and healing. 

[Marfin]

 

The last thing I say for now (hour difference...sigh), and just a selfish request, is maybe asking the devs for our old Ray of Genesis animation but maybe speeded up or something since someone, don't recall where/when, about it taking longer hence the change. (don't quote me fully on that).

 

i very like the new animation of ray of genesis , please dont back it to the bad old ray of genesis , i dont see any good of the old animation ray of genesis 

[Snowberries01]

A friend of mine just joined this game, lvl 34 priest. He has no problem reaching round 4~5 in colo. Given that two of the DOTs are instant cast, trying a few more times wouldn't be that bad imho. AND hit/dodge formula has always been the top of everyone's wish list, but it depends on how long it'll take the devs to find a solution to it.

I tested yesterday. My Lv50 priest has Bapho/PvE N gear no costumes, elixir runes; and each one of his DoTs damages for ~700 per 2 seconds. People around that gear area(RHD~Colo) has about 10K~15K HP unbuffed.

By estimation if all three 3 DoTs hit, your target will die in 15s :x

Edit: All DoTs at Lv5.

Edited by Snowberries01, 27 March 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[ChocoVivi]

I tested yesterday. My Lv50 priest has Bapho/PvE N gear no costumes, elixir runes; and each one of his DoTs damages for ~700 per 2 seconds. People around that gear area(RHD~Colo) has about 10K~15K HP unbuffed.

By estimation if all three 3 DoTs hit, your target will die in 15s :x

Edit: All DoTs at Lv5.

 

And given that two of the DoTs don't require cast time nor do they have any cd, it would not be hard to land them O_O hmm anyway, for now we will probably just swap the dmg % and decide on how to nerf them later in the future ~_~

Edited by ChocoVivi, 27 March 2014 - 12:38 PM.

[KnightOf0]

What's the point of creating this topic if you are not willing to listen to anyone other than those that agree with you.  A number of people already said DO NOT NERF UNTIL OTHER STUFF GOT FIXED (reasons are debated everywhere in this topic).  The only reason you gave to say no to that is, based on your assumption, it will take them shorter time to buff us again than to nerf.  Which make no sense because the devs take ages to do anything and everything.  As we have witnessed in every patch that try to fix things.  

 

Other than this personal assumption you made, do you have any other reason to request nerf now instead of wait for fix first?

 

Going back to page one:

 

We nerfed them -15% and swaped them around. So really the DoT percents are still there but on different skill minus 15% of the damage. We needed to nerf them as we did sense that it was a very high damage dot in combination with our easy to do stuns. The other VCR's are looking into their DoT's. They are all looking either to buff/or nerf them depending on what needs to be done. It seems to be a general consensus for priests is that either they stay or get a slight nerf. I think that 15% might be a good reduction.  And don't be too alarmed when you see Oratio go from 136% to 87%. The 87% comes from lvl 1 adoramus ( which is 102% initially ) minus 15%.

 

 

I keep seeing 15% nerf but look closer, at level 5:

 

Oratio 200% nerf to 135%

Credo 224% nerf to 185%

Adoramus 150% buff to 209%

 

It is roughly a 20~30% damage nerf.  I am not a PvPer as I said earlier, I leave Adoramus at level 1 so I can't be benefited from the buff and only get the downside on the nerf.  How are you going to make up for the rest of the priests that isn't maxing all dots because we are not going the standard VCR way of playing our class?  

 

Your whole point of nerfing the dots is because it is OP when combined with the 15 secs stun.  Well, then, what's wrong with nerfing Judex to 3 secs at all level then leave the dots as they are (someone else's suggestion here and didn't get any consideration?).  That will not hurt PvE as much and will help those QQ rangers kill us faster if that is what you want to help your ranger VCR friend push for.

 

Anyway, regardless of the opposition, voice aren't heard.  You are still going with your dot % swap.  No plan to consider other people's opinions and suggestions.  No plan to consider other priests playing style.  The only priests that matter are those at the top with 20 extra skill points and some x amount of extra stats points to put into AGI for hit.

 

Sure if that is the power of VCR, don't ask anybody just go with your dictatorship management style, sounds like Gravity anyway.  Keep pushing out useless crap regardless of voices.

 

Why don't you just make the first post and ask the topic to be locked.  That could save us a lot of time.

 

 

Edited by KnightOf0, 27 March 2014 - 09:21 PM.

[KayleePepper]

How about one nerf at a time? Nerf Judex first then wait and see how PvP will turn out. Maybe the three DOTs won't hurt as much without stun lock. If it'll turn out that they're still OP after the Judex nerf, then at least we can say with more certainty that they do deserve to be nerfed.