7 replies to this topic

[Turniper]

I've been talking to BMs and it got me thinking about what non-BMs thought. So I'm starting a BM thread specifically for people who aren't BMs to talk about BMs. We're taking questions, suggestions, and opinions because getting feedback from a different perspective is the whole point here so have at it!

Edited by Turniper, 24 March 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[PandeeChio]

Question 1(2nd is kinda same) to beastmasters: From warriors view ---> compared to Pre AoV beast masters defense werent of the best sort and lost to couple tanky chars with it but you had best hp buff. Now for the question...Do you beastmaster users think you have too much defense. And because of this high defense do you use your defensive abilities in endgame (osiris) or do you need them at all?

Question 2 to every beastmasters:
Would you prefer if every class defense gets reworked (i am now talking mainly on tank chars) like number 1 in defense is monk second is knight and warrior(with defender on obviously) and bm as last spot. And for def rates with osi armors monk= 70% Knight 65-68 wariior with 60-65% and bm with 57-63%.


3. What do you beastmasters think of your class benefit with the Vit=2def is it good? Is it needed? Is it just too powerful? And would you change it and how?

[Turniper]

Question 1(2nd is kinda same) to beastmasters: From warriors view ---> compared to Pre AoV beast masters defense werent of the best sort and lost to couple tanky chars with it but you had best hp buff. Now for the question...Do you beastmaster users think you have too much defense. And because of this high defense do you use your defensive abilities in endgame (osiris) or do you need them at all?

Question 2 to every beastmasters:
Would you prefer if every class defense gets reworked (i am now talking mainly on tank chars) like number 1 in defense is monk second is knight and warrior(with defender on obviously) and bm as last spot. And for def rates with osi armors monk= 70% Knight 65-68 wariior with 60-65% and bm with 57-63%.


3. What do you beastmasters think of your class benefit with the Vit=2def is it good? Is it needed? Is it just too powerful? And would you change it and how?

 

 

1. We don't have a collective hive-mind so while many of us do think the defense is too high while others think it's fine as it is. I think it should be completely replaced with 20-23hp per VIT instead of 15 while some think that ~20 with only 1 defense point would be better. Some defensive skills are used while others aren't. Like grizzly and the self heals are still popular, feral defense isn't as necessary as it was before since we're not taking nearly as much damage.

 

2. The old order was fine because BMs made up for the low defense in other ways. The exact value I can't say but making the order monks>knight>war>BM again wouldn't be an issue.

 

3. Refer to #1

[PandeeChio]

1. We don't have a collective hive-mind so while many of us do think the defense is too high while others think it's fine as it is. I think it should be completely replaced with 20-23hp per VIT instead of 15 while some think that ~20 with only 1 defense point would be better. Some defensive skills are used while others aren't. Like grizzly and the self heals are still popular, feral defense isn't as necessary as it was before since we're not taking nearly as much damage.

 

 

Sounds good suggestion but wouldn't it make a big unbalance with the Grizzly form hp buff ?

 

Well in colosseum it would be noticeable and ppl will maybe attack less but what if it would be 18-20? 

 

Well myself i wouldn't ask higher than 20hp per VIT but with the current monsters dmg/penetration would it be good to have a HP buff with already high HP achieved with Blueseeds and all those VIP/Statue buffs?

Would there be other solution where you could gain something? that others couldn't other than def/hp?

[Meconopsis]

Question number 2 - defenses kept faithful to pre-AoV design would be a good starting point as long as damages rates aren't kept at the same as pre-AoV.

[Turniper]

More HP works best with the BM skillset but that amounts to around 33% more hp. Others would do well too but no more than it would for any other classes. Extra vigor would be nice but it's unknown if there's a cap and it would be pretty broken anyway having a 75%+ CD reduction.

[Arbalist]

Here's my opinion on the Def/HP matters.

 

First, I'm indifferent to the order of the tank class defenses as long as we all balance out to have roughly the same defensive capabilities when considering all defensive stats (Def, HP, Parry, Dodge) together.

Taking Defense as it is, I feel there is not enough room to grow for 30 more levels. With +0 Osiris gear, average 16% blueseeds and Vit Def bonuses, I am already at 66% and 75% unbuffed in Bear and Grizzly forms respectively. I'm not even at my full potential in terms of runes, VIP, and external buffs. We're already nearing plateau of the diminishing returns formula so next tier gear will need to have jacked up stats to compensate in order for noticeable differences. Let's not forget that newer gear tiers would likely catch non-tank classes up in terms of Defense which reduces the gap between non-tank and tank classes and diminishing our usefulness.

 

In terms of class bonus, I feel that 15 HP per Vit should be the BM bonus, which means that other classes will have their HP bonus lowered (somewhere between 6 and 15 HP per point). Yes this looks like a nerf to everyone at first, but consider some of the following.

 

1. Everyone had only 6 HP per Vit before, and surviving raids was still possible with proper preparation and active healers. The AOV patch created a huge leap in defensive capability for all classes which renders early content useless. Lowering the HP per Vit for all classes will still allow them to survive content without being over-buffed. We're not supposed to solo things in game, but some people seem to be forgetting this. Unfortunately, the introduction of penetration stats shows that the developers are still in favour of buffing everyone and works against this path. 

 

2. A lower HP pool means Potions will heal more in terms of a percentage of total HP. It makes crafted potions more relevant. Additionally, it makes the Healing bonus from Vit more relevant to all classes, thus making Vit a more desirable stat build for those who want to beef up their characters more.

 

2. If Vit Defense bonus is removed with the current gear set, BMs will still have 50% and 60% Def in Bear and Grizzly respectively. Still good defensively, still have capacity for future content growth.

I know my views aren't popular, but I prefer to look for big picture and am willing to take a short term loss in favour of it.

[Turniper]

My view point is that the tanks were fairly balanced in terms of HP and defense pre-AoV. Right now we have the highest HP and defense, which means that we take the least amount of damage while having the capacity to take the most, but it should be one or the other. Other tanks survived by having high damage mitigation through defense and parry while we take more damage because of high HP and %HP self heals that work based on that higher HP. I liked the old system and would rather have it closer to that where each tank has their strengths and weaknesses, instead of the current system where we have all the strengths.